EPTBoxer Goliath vs Savior Mutal - Page 5
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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ofclean
United States100 Posts
On May 11 2007 02:48 WhatisProtoss wrote: Wrong. That only works for vultures, since their cooldown rate for patrol is half that of it's attack-move. Patrol move won't work well for dragoons or goliaths, which was what this guy asked for. is the vult thing actually true...? i don't see them attacking twice as fast on patrol. | ||
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Bub
United States3518 Posts
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Brutalisk
794 Posts
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ofclean
United States100 Posts
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Capt. Moroni
United States533 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On May 11 2007 08:38 Brutalisk wrote: I wonder why Savior upgraded muta armor instead of attack.. is armor really better vs. goliaths? I'd have gone for attack... +1 armor means 1 damage done less (but focus firing with many gols on 1 muta still kills it), but +1 attack means 10-4-2 damage instead of 9-3-1... No. Actually i don't know if it works like it but do you know that mutas +1 defense is clearly way better than mutas +1 attack in Mutas vs Mutas fight ? Because the mutas do 10-3-1 instead of 10-4-2 and the defense get only 8-2-0.5 from 0/0 muta. which mean that they get 9/2/0.5 from +1 attack mutas. You need to know that mutalisk's attack doesn't upgrade the bounce damage. Or do they ? I may not be as good as them but i do know that savior has either understimated boxer or lacked experience against goliaths fights... I mean mutas only against goliats ? It's pure suicide. Would work better if he switched his 12 mutas at least to 12 hydras since they do somewhat more damage to mech units (need confirmation though) and while the mutas get hits by the goliats behind the front line that leave hydras to not take full damage from goliats because they'd be aiming the mutas with their upgraded range missile. I'd not be surprised if goliats without range would work better against the mutal/hydra combo, funny eh ? :o) | ||
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Brutalisk
794 Posts
@Hydras: Muta/Hyd is a good combination vs. Goliaths but the problem is that Terran can just add a few tanks to his force and then hydras get totally raped. So better get more mutas for the money, and some lings. Mutas is basically the best way vs. a Terran going mechanic. But, well, Boxer had the upgrade advantage (3-3 even!), so maybe Savior should have used dual spire for upgrades (or did he? don't remember). And if Savior could have gotten plague he would have won... | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On May 06 2007 09:10 SonuvBob wrote: 2007-05-05 Dream Match - FPVODs Game 1 - Boxer POV Not Uploaded Game 2 - Boxer POV Part 1 | Part 2 Game 3 - Boxer POV Part 1 | Part 2 Game 1 - sAviOr POV Part 1 | Part 2 Game 2 - sAviOr POV Part 1 | Part 2 Game 3 - sAviOr POV Part 1 | Part 2 | ||
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stambe
Bulgaria492 Posts
On May 11 2007 15:34 RaiZ wrote: No. Actually i don't know if it works like it but do you know that mutas +1 defense is clearly way better than mutas +1 attack in Mutas vs Mutas fight ? Because the mutas do 10-3-1 instead of 10-4-2 and the defense get only 8-2-0.5 from 0/0 muta. which mean that they get 9/2/0.5 from +1 attack mutas. You need to know that mutalisk's attack doesn't upgrade the bounce damage. Or do they ? I may not be as good as them but i do know that savior has either understimated boxer or lacked experience against goliaths fights... I mean mutas only against goliats ? It's pure suicide. Would work better if he switched his 12 mutas at least to 12 hydras since they do somewhat more damage to mech units (need confirmation though) and while the mutas get hits by the goliats behind the front line that leave hydras to not take full damage from goliats because they'd be aiming the mutas with their upgraded range missile. I'd not be surprised if goliats without range would work better against the mutal/hydra combo, funny eh ? :o) Actually mutalisk's attack does upgrade the bounce damage, since the first bounce does 1/3 of the muta damage and the second does 1/9, so a 0/0 muta will do 3 damage with the first bounce against unit that has no armor and 3.333 damage with 1 attack upgrade. Also in muta - golie fights, muta armor is clearly better (although it's good to have both upgrades), because 0/0 muta does 8/2/0.5 dmg against 0/0 golie, and 0/0/0 golie does 10 dmg. 3/3 muta does 8/0.5/0.5 dmg against 3/3/3 golie, 3/3/3 golie does 13 dmg(each missile does - (16-3)/2 = 6.5 dmg), so the damage increase of the golies is 30 %. The overall damage of 0/0 muta against 0/0/0 golie is 8 + 2 + 0.5 = 10.5, but the overall dmg of 3/3 muta against 3/3/3 golie is 8 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 9. A 0/0 muta will do 5 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 7 against 3/3/3 golie so the difference between 3/3 and 0/0 muta When the gols get armor muta splash becomes very ineffective - basically only the first hit does real damage, the bounces does minor almost negligible dmg but it still ads up in the long run, or fight for that matter  | ||
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Musli
Poland5130 Posts
On May 11 2007 03:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: sick brings memories, isnt it ? ;-) | ||
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patrick321
United States185 Posts
The real damage of a fully upgraded goli vs a fully upgraded muta is (32-2*3)/2 = 13 I'd personally get attack upgrades before defense upgrades, but i think muta/ling would be a better choice overall. Lings have a much greater damage potential for their cost. | ||
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MaZza[KIS]
Australia2110 Posts
On May 10 2007 21:51 boghat wrote: I see your point but who is a nerd then? no one is a nerd. nerd is a label, with negative conotations, created to classify people. If you think it doesn't have negative conotations then you're kidding yourself. Essentially, some faggot in High School (probably some football playing jock type) thought "hey.. these fags are smarter than me... there MUST be some way I can kill their self esteem while I'm in a position [popular enough] to do so". Unfortunately [or fortunately if you're a nerd] the nerds grow up, get a social life (which they had the capacity to do anyways, it's just that they were busy studying and thinking of the future so they'll have a career/money) and the stupid fuck who used to call them nerd ends up working at walmart nursing a crack habit. Nerd was made to put people down! Don't be put down. Work hard, believe and achieve. You can ALWAYS work on getting a social life. Fuck, it is so easy to meet people, become friends and go clubbing every week, i.e. "socialise". However, it's F*CKING hard to finish a good degree in a good university and get a good job. Trust me. Take it from someone who tried to shake the "nerd" tag and found that the people that call you nerd are so f*cking pathetic, insecure and feel so threatened that they'll do anything to get you off your game plan. </ rant> Hell.. I'm at work... I have a government job, I'm paid lots of money and I have very little work to do. I MUST be a nerd. Such a hard life it is sitting on my arse all day, working out at the gym and going out on the weekends while the rest of my "cool" friends are labouring at construction sites on weekends to make ends meet. I am SUCH THE NERD. And now.. maybe now you understand why I hate the word nerd. Because to me, nerd doesn't mean "social ineptitude" or "lone loser". It means "guy who is temporarily sacrificing his social status to get ahead in life". And most people don't interpret it that way and misuse the term to hurt people. </ rant within rant> | ||
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Detonate
Iceland578 Posts
(i just made up that figure..but yea) | ||
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unknown.sam
Philippines2701 Posts
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I_are_n00b
196 Posts
A nerd doesn't mean someone that does computers are whatever. It probably originally meant that this person devotes a lot of time in academics that usually involve math based things. However, computers and computer games came out of this culture and that's why they're nerds. There are also a lot of stuff that these nerds generally do or look like. So that's why "nerd" comes with a certain stigma too. Just because these guys today might not LOOK like nerds, doesn't make them any less a nerd. They're not jocks, they're not goths, they're not emos, they're nerds. Period. | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On May 13 2007 19:35 I_are_n00b wrote: Is everyone offended by the term nerd or something? It's just like the term jock for athletes. Oh, you can give a billion examples of how this athlete did so and so, but it doesn't matter. He's classified as a jock. He might also be classified as something else, but it doesn't make him any less of a jock. It is a slang term we use to classify people. Saying that these guys are socially inept is probably wrong.... now. But to say that these guys weren't nerds to begin with is silly. I'm sure Reach, Yellow and even Boxer were huge nerds before starcraft got off the ground. I'm not saying they were socially inept, but I'm saying they were nerds. That's why we come up with slang (and a big reason for ebonics) isn't it? We express ideas that aren't exactly in the dictionaries, and through one word that can convey a complex definition. A nerd doesn't mean someone that does computers are whatever. It probably originally meant that this person devotes a lot of time in academics that usually involve math based things. However, computers and computer games came out of this culture and that's why they're nerds. There are also a lot of stuff that these nerds generally do or look like. So that's why "nerd" comes with a certain stigma too. Just because these guys today might not LOOK like nerds, doesn't make them any less a nerd. They're not jocks, they're not goths, they're not emos, they're nerds. Period. Classifying people into distinct groups has never led anywhere good. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
On May 10 2007 22:27 WhatisProtoss wrote: Wow.... Starcraft pros are definitely nerds by both definitions that you provided. They practice anywhere from 10-14 hours a day on a computer. They definitely don't have the social skills of a normal person who lives a normal life. And they have the single-minded intent of playing Starcraft. Starcraft is a non-social game. Yes, progamers are nerds. What's wrong with calling them nerds? They can't get girls; they wouldn't be able to maintain a relationship without ruining their gaming career; they have little time to spend on how to have healthy social relationships. They're just the fucking same as any other person dude, an athlete wont be able to mantain a relationship without "ruining" their career. A guy working behind a desk is stuck sitting there for 8 or so hours, just like any other sc player that plays for a living. And its not rare for someone like that to keep working past those hours if theyre ambitious. We know from rekrul that there are some pros that go clubbing, some that stay in, but thats because their own personality, not because of the fucking game. They dont have the social skills of a normal person? At the very least they fucking live among their teamplayers for crist sake, if they were socially inept as you portray them then they would fucking become fed up with each other and that would be obviously noticeable. There are 2 kinds of people in this world, some can go into a bar and talk to a total stranger and some cant, but either way its because of their own personality, not because of something you can just generalize. So shut the fuck up please and stop fucking up the thread. | ||
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