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[ASL4] Ro8 Preview Pt. 2- Bisu and Flash Killers

Forum Index > BW General
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[ASL4] Ro8 Preview Pt. 2- Bisu and Flash Killers

Text byBigFan
Graphics byshiroiusagi
October 22nd, 2017 05:22 GMT
logo
The first two matches of the quarterfinals have already been played out and the results couldn't have been more surprising for some fans. The first matchup saw Rain goes up against Larva who's been on fire lately and has seen a huge skill increase in the last couple of months. In quite the back and forth series with some cheese to boot, Larva managed to dispatch Rain, 3-1 to be the first to advance to the semifinals.

The second matchup saw Soulkey go up against hero. Many hoped that Soulkey will be able to overcome hero, alas, hero had other plans and through good micro and preparation, beat Soulkey in the decider on Gladiator. A ZvZ semifinals between Larva and hero awaits us! KwarK and Ty2 recapped group A and B respectively so be sure to read them for more juicy details!

This leaves two more groups, C and D in the quarterfinals. Group C between Bisu and Killer is set to start in and was previewed by BLinD-RawR while Group D, a TvT between Flash and Mind, previewed by Bigfan will start 2 days after. Take a quick look at the previews and let's get hyped for more BW!

Table of contents

  • Intro
  •  
  • Group A Recap
  • Group B Recap
  •  
  • Bisu vs Killer Preview
  • Flash vs Mind Preview
  •  
  • (Wiki)Liquipedia
Group A Recap

...

Game 1 on Crossing Field:
Larva (Z) spawned in purple at 10 while Rain (P) took teal at 4. Larva sent out his 9th drone across the map while Rain continued his established pattern of not 8 scouting, as we've seen in all his earlier PvZ on this map. Normally that's fine because normal PvZ games on Crossing Field are super macro orientated and you can blindly assume your opponent is going for a macro game. But normal games don't include the 9th drone being sent out. You don't scout to see what you expect to be there, you scout to find that what you expect isn't there.

Larva went for 12 hat proxied behind Rain's natural in the top right, 11 pool, while Rain opened 1 gate nexus no scouting.

[image loading]

Larva kept a drone on his ramp to deny scouting but Rain wasn't scouting until he had committed to his nexus anyway. Larva's drone on the ramp denied scouting, letting Rain assume that Larva had taken the back natural, and Larva appeared to confirm that story by sending a drone to fake attempt a hatchery at the front natural, getting repeatedly blocked by Rain's probe, even though it had neither the minerals nor the intent to make a hatchery were it not blocked. Larva knew the timings for a three hat macro opener and wanted to tell Rain a convincing story about how there totally wasn't a proxy hat behind his natural.

Larva grabbed ling speed while Rain's first zealot made it into Larva's base, expecting six newly produced lings from a 12 hat 11 pool and finding them. Larva still looked convincing as a macro opener, his second hat could easily be believed to be at his rear nat. The only "odd" thing was his extractor with no drones mining gas, a quick ling speed. Rain's probe was quickly picked off and his zealot retreated behind the mineral line and died, Rain wasn't able to get the vital information he needed.

Rain sent out a second scout probe but it wasn't drilled to the minerals in Larva's main, even though he had time to send it there before the zealot died. It didn't make it, but it was able to confirm ling speed and a few more lings than Rain might expect.

[image loading]

Rain smelled a whiff what the Rock was cooking and put a probe behind his zealot wall with a shield battery coming. But he wasn't sure enough in his read, he produced a dragoon (which sucks against lings) instead of another zealot, he didn't start a forge, and his probes weren't ready to hold.

Larva drone drilled up the ramp and his speedlings rushed in.

[image loading]

The first zealot got pushed into mass lings and died without doing anything and although the second zealot fared better, the dragoon that spawned to assist him wasn't the help he needed, not vs speedlings. It was over in seconds.

[image loading]

GG

Editorial: Rain showed an established pattern across the last dozen PvZ games and got himself cheesed for his hubris. Small edges from taking a series of risks can add up when you don't believe your opponent will risk everything to allin and punish you for them. But after a few games you should expect them to. As for Larva, clean execution. Nothing fancy but he knew exactly what he was doing and he knew that it would work. Sometimes you need to cheese to keep your opponent honest. There's a reason Protoss always used to scout on 8 in PvZ.

Game 2 on Gladiator:
Larva (Z) spawned in white at 1 while Rain (P) took green at 7. Much more standard openings this time around as Rain scouted anticlockwise on 8 and Larva went for a gasless overpool into 11 hat. The 11 hat was probe delayed, forcing Larva to spawn two zerglings and an additional two drones first for a 14 hat, despite having the drone at his nat with 300 at 11.

Rain played correctly, taking a 13 nexus before 14 cannon, and then 15 gateway, 16 pylon, very macro heavy with almost no cutting of probes. Larva took the gas expansion at 12 for his third hatchery and added gas for a very standard three hat lair opener. Rain kept his probe alive forever against the two slow lings giving him perfect information so he had no fear early, staying on one cannon and hiding a zealot at the 11 natural to sneak into 12. A fast stargate followed with +1 air attack rushed out.

Larva's starsense scouted the zealot at 11 and killed it for free with five zerglings while his spire was on time for the first corsair, preventing Rain from getting anything done. His three hats pumped nothing but drones, his only units in the first six minutes being his first six zerglings, an extremely macro heavy three hat spire five hat hydra opener which was completely unpunished. Rain's one gate late +1 speed zealots weren't even scary enough to force sunkens. Larva made a sim city but otherwise just continued to spam drones, a few scourge policing the skies.

Rain finally got his +1 speedlots, pushed out, and then immediately retreated because he knew his army was so much smaller than what he'd need to do damage that he couldn't even pretend to push. Instead he hoped that by killing the lings he might force more hydralisks while Rain got his storm out. At 8 minutes in and a base behind Rain was actually adding more cannons to his nat to resist a potential five hat hydra break before his high templar were done. The +1 corsair fleet managed to kill just a single overlord before losing too many to be effective beyond acting as a mutalisk deterrent.

Larva went up to seven hat on 4 bases while Rain massed on two bases before crawling out to his mineral only and camping there, spamming gateways and finishing his tech. But even with the mineral only he was a gas behind the Zerg, which meant fighting gas units (lurkers, mutas etc) with mineral units (mostly zealots). Rain's only advantage, if we could call it that, was Larva's willingness to stay on lair tech and try and beat him in a midgame tech macro war. Dancing hydralisks squared off against speedlots near Rain's third but the game continued to follow 20min no rush rules as both players declined a full on engagement.

12 minutes in, we got our first battle as Larva made a play for the high ground adjacent to Rain's mineral only.

[image loading]

Rain's observers were ready and he just trampled straight through Larva's lurkers with four control groups of Protoss infantry. Larva retreated with most of his hydralisks and a bloody nose. Rain pushed out to attack Larva's natural, which was defended by a thin line of lurkers on the ramp, while Larva's hydralisks looped around the other side of the map to counter at Rain's natural. Although Rain had a considerable supply lead, his zealots underestimated the depth of the lurker defense and were punished for it.

[image loading]

Meanwhile, Larva's hydralisks abandoned their own push and instead ambushed Rain's stream of reinforcements in the middle of the map, forcing Rain to retreat.

The first real battle went Larva's way. Rain's army survived but Larva closed the supply gap by 20 and didn't give an inch of ground. Map control was still in Rain's favour though and the 6 gas expansion was going up for him. Larva attempted to turn the victory into a push of his own, attacking a midgame protoss army using nothing but hydralisks and lurkers, without any mutalisks or other attempt to reduce high templar numbers. The results were predictable and stormy.

[image loading]

Successful pickoffs on all three of Rain's observers averted a complete disaster for Larva but the botched attack left Rain up 60 supply and on equal bases.

[image loading]

Rain pushed out into the open ground between Larva's mineral only and gas third and forced Larva to fight him on open ground.

[image loading]

Rain's dragoons established a broad front and a continuous stream of reinforcements flowed from Rain's gateways. Larva was able to snipe the observer again but only one lurker was left by the time it went down, while Rain's zealots had already broken through to 12. The defiler tech was finally done and Larva had the swarm he really would have needed to hold his lurkers against the mass dragoons 30 seconds earlier, but the 12 expansion and the three macro hatches there were already overrun.

The last of Larva's army desperately held onto the ruins at 12, at which point Rain's army, now 80 supply ahead and accelerating, simply diverted into the undefended mineral only.

[image loading]

Completely helpless in the face of the Rain steamroller Larva GG'd out.
GG

Editorial: If either player got an advantage from their defensive macro openings I'd have to say it was Larva, who wasn't even forced into sunkens with his three hat spire five hat hydra and got a colossal economy rolling by the midgame. The problem was that Larva tried to get into a midgame macro off with Rain in ZvP. I don't care who you are or how good at ZvP you are, you don't do that, not against Rain. You make lurkers to hold your bases while you can and you rush to hive to plague his army and swarm your lurkers when you can't hold on any other way. But a lair tech vs storm tech macro war against Rain of all players? I have no idea what Larva thought would happen when he tried that but I'm pretty sure that everyone observing knew exactly what would happen. As for Rain, the boy can macro, we all know that. I wasn't convinced by his opening, especially when the +1 sairs did absolutely nothing, but he did what he needed to do. Larva gave him a timing window and Rain threw 160 supply of Protoss ground units into that window.

Game 3 on Gold Rush:
Larva (Z) spawned in yellow at 12 while Rain (P) took white at 9. Rain scouted on 8 in the correct direction while Larva opened for a gasless overpool into 11 hat at natural. Rain went for 10 forge, 13 nexus, 13 cannon, 14 gateway, a little more defensive than he needed against two zerglings, both of which were chasing his probe, but completely fine given the overlord scouting his nat. Larva added a 14 hat at the natural to the third expansion, a play that immediately signaled his plan for the game. On three player maps, the deciding factor is generally who establishes the third base and the natural. By building his third hatchery at the 6 natural, Larva turned his cards face up and said "break a natural if you want to win, I'll be waiting".

Both players made nothing but workers. Rain added a quick second gas and scouting for Larva's third, checking the central gas expo but was unable to find Larva's third until corsair tech. Rain played a defensive opening, getting +1 air, fast archives, two gates and trying to take the 11 island early. Larva opted for the standard three hat spire but rather than the five hat hydra followup, as is standard, he opted for six hat sim city fast four base with sunkens.

[image loading]

Rain dropped two corsairs to scourge, both completely avoidable, and the game settled into the midgame with Larva up four gas bases to Rain's three.

Rain ran a dt past Larva's wall at the 6 natural but was unable to cap the hatchery there. At the same time, he attempted a +1 speedlot bust at Larva's natural but despite only facing one sunken and five hydralisks, his six zealots were unable to do any damage. Rain had map control but only three bases to Larva's four. He tried to do the same to the 6 natural but had to back off from there too. Mass speedlots, dragoons, archons etc ran around the middle of the map while seven +1 sairs slaughtered overlords but Rain did absolutely nothing with any of it. No expansions onto the map, no reavers to slow push the Zerg in, no dt drop play to knock out the low hp fourth base at the 5 main, just a lot of units standing outside of two fortified naturals.

Rain decided to try and batter down the wall with mass dragoons so he could flood in with his zealots and archons.

[image loading]

However, it all immediately went wrong. Larva immediately replaced the walling hatchery with an evo which could have been one shot with a single volley by five dragoons but which was neglected, causing zealot AI to go crazy running around it to get to the sunkens. And as they got on top of the sunkens, Larva finished his lurkers.

[image loading]

Rain broke through, finishing the last sunken with a dozen speedlots left while Larva's reinforcing army did absolutely nothing, running head first into Rain's greater reinforcing army. Rain was left with around six dragoons and ten speedlots in a base with only drones and three lurkers.

Rain immediately cocked everything up, trying to run his speedlots into a corner of the natural out of lurker fire, leaving his dragoons without zealot support to die to zerglings. Despite Larva having two bases to defend at 6, the main (still on low hp) and the natural, Rain ran his zealots into the corner of the natural and waited for Larva to move all of those scary lurkers away.

[image loading]
seriously, what the hell was going on here

Rain slaughtered all of Larva's overlords again which was a sweet move but static defense doesn't take control and Larva had a bunch of drones at 6 ready to turn into sunkens. Although Rain retained the upper hand and map control, which he used to take his mineral only, Larva had the third main and with it his win condition. Rain tried a dt drop in Larva's main but combined his dts and corsairs poorly, his dts hiding rather than killing the hydras which were killing his corsairs. All that resulted was the end of his corsair fleet which endured the full attention of the hydralisks while trying to kill overlords.

Larva upped to nine hatchery hive tech and confronted Rain with this bullshit.

[image loading]

Protoss has very few options against that. They are
A) Take the other main and nat yourself (not possible, three player map)
B) Slow reaver push into it (works until they have their defilers ready, then lurkling and swarm make things kinda ugly because your dragoons stop working and lurkers > zealots)
C) Arbiters with recall to snipe the bases behind the walls
D) Take every island expansion, build a robo, reavers, cannons, gateway, high templar and at least one dark archon at each of them, and wait for the Zerg to realize that you have more minerals behind your bullshit turtle than he has behind his.
Rain decided to go in a different direction, option E, attack it head on.

[image loading]

To spice it up, he decided to work in some storm drops too which were remarkably ineffective. With plan E failing, Rain decided that it was time to take a fourth gas and fifth base of his own at his central gas expo, actually putting him ahead of Larva on bases. With map control secure and up in bases, the pressure was really on Rain and so he decided to go back to plan E.

[image loading]

This may look a lot like the previous gif but this is actually a completely new attempt to break mass sunkens, lurkers, spores, and scourge with mass speedlots.

Larva expanded to the 3 island expo and Rain decided to try plan B at the 11 natural. This had the significant advantage of not being plan E, although it would have been great if he'd tried it five minutes earlier. The shuttle was immediately killed by scourge as it was inattentively left on the edge of Rain's army but the hydra den, a sunken, and a fair few hydralisks were killed by the reavers. That made it all the more unfortunate when they ran out of scarabs and were killed by a handful of cracklings under the uncaring eyes of the rest of Rain's army.

[image loading]
7/10 for concept, 2/10 for execution

The slow reaver push faltered due to lack of reavers, while Larva was able to safely take both 3 and 7 islands behind his walls. The walls did nothing to defend these bases which could easily be sniped by four zealot drops or similar but served as a great distraction to keep Rain busy. Sunkens and lurkers seemed irresistible to Rain. Larva broke through the eggs at 8 and completely failed to do anything to Rain's base while Rain established the central gas expansion that would be Larva's natural fourth base where the map evenly divided. With Larva's hive tech done, he started plaguing Rain's army, just because.

Rain was still 80 supply ahead, maxed to Larva's 120, but with Larva's two new islands, they were on six bases apiece and Larva was still sheltered behind his wall. Larva sniped Rain's new top expansion with cracklings and Rain responded with this impressive statement against anyone who might argue that observers are mandatory.

[image loading]

With the 7 island stopped, Rain was back ahead on bases and still had a huge army advantage, map control, and all the tech he could want. He therefore concluded that he desperately needed to break into Larva's natural, behind which were two almost mined out bases and exactly three of Larva's eleven hatcheries. It would have to be plan E.

He was greeted by a plague to the face, which he followed by storming all his zealots.

[image loading]

Satisfied with the outcome, Rain decided he didn't really want to break the natural anyway, and backed off. A four zealot drop into his 3 at the same time, chased drones around rather than targeting the hatchery, which was allowed to live for literally no reason. Rain decided the correct play was to try option B again, but mixed it up by taking his shuttle with reavers and flying it into hydralisks at the 3 island.

[image loading]

With his army waiting for reavers that weren't coming, Rain decided to go for option E again. And then for more drops into scourge.

[image loading]

One thing keen eyed readers may notice here is that the 6 natural is actually almost mined out at this point. The bases that Rain has been attacking no longer have any real money in them. Larva's lifeline were his two new island expansions, one of which was right next to Rain's base and was, for most of the game, open for him to walk his giant army in at any time. Larva plagued Rain's army a bunch but was otherwise content to sit behind his wall and wait to see if Rain would do something dumb. Rain, with his army mostly having 1hp under their shields, decided to try and break the 6 natural again. And to make it worse, he tried to do it with reavers attacking downwards without nearby support.

[image loading]
raise your hand if you know what is about to happen

The reaver AI did exactly what everyone knew it would, sending them walking directly into the sunkens where hydralisks promptly killed all three.

[image loading]

For Rain, the game was turning into some kind of farce, he was still even on bases but, in some kind of reverse Midas situation, everything he touched turned to excrement. He therefore decided to do the same thing he tried after the last six pushes failed, a storm drop with no corsair cover, which went the exact same way as the last five attempts.

[image loading]

It may sound like I am being a little harsh on Rain here but I assure you that it's every bit deserved.

At 25 minutes into the game, Larva decided to do his first attempt to attack, running lings into a cannon reaver storm defence at one of the central gas expansions with a drop in overlords ready to follow it up. However, after taking a look at the cannon, reaver, high templar defence, Larva decided that the game didn't need two players suiciding all their units over and over into fortified positions, and turned his overlords around. Rain finally decided to attack a base where Larva was actually mining and where there weren't infinity sunken colonies, and it actually went really well.

[image loading]

Rain killed the expansion and got great value in trade for his units as Larva poured units into a reaver, zealot, archon, high templar group. Perhaps Rain would turn his luck around.

Larva followed by giving Rain a gift of thirty supply wasted, dropping zerglings and hydralisks without dark swarm onto cannons and high templar in a move critics are calling "highly optimistic".

[image loading]

With the 3 expansion destroyed and 7 barely mining, Larva was basically on no economy, his first four bases having been exhausted or near exhaustion. Rain therefore decided to do what he always did when he had no better ideas, another single shuttle drop.

[image loading]

That didn't work and so Rain returned to trusty option E which had never failed him, attacking into the single strongest position on the map, behind which was absolutely nothing of value.

[image loading]
wow

Remember that at this point, Rain has six bases to Larva's six bases, and all three of the remaining base sites are in the centre of the map, completely under Rain's control. If Rain were to sit in the middle of the map doing absolutely nothing then Larva would mine out and have to push into Rain. Whereas if Rain were to break through here then Larva would simply kill the assimilators and drop a nydus at each of his two island expansions. There is absolutely no potential upside to Rain attacking, he doesn't want to attack, he doesn't need to attack, this is the wrong place to attack, he can only lose through attacking, and there is nothing to be won if the attack works. The only thing slightly worth killing is the five hatcheries in this corner of the map but Larva no longer had the economy to even use all those hatcheries.

Rain's entire army died, fighting lurkers without an observer to reveal them. As keen eyed readers might suspect, this was not the correct play. But Rain had his followup for his option E prepared, speed shuttles into all the expansions.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Rain actually managed to improve upon his usual followup, losing speed shuttles at two bases rather than the standard one. After his push into mass lurkers failed, Rain decided to remax with mostly zealots, perhaps thinking that the problem was that he didn't have enough zealots to beat 3-3 lurkers while plagued, and Larva promptly plagued them all again, reducing them to 61 hp. That made them significantly less likely to break through a lurker sunken defence than mass firebats. Outraged by the defiler, Rain decided to storm all his own observers, killing all three at once.

[image loading]

Rain also decided not to bother with any upgrades beyond 3-1-1, despite the fact that he had been maxed for the past fifteen minutes. I guess when you're assuming that every unit is going to be plagued armor upgrades aren't really worth it?

Rain decided to try another speed shuttle storm drop, confident that Larva wouldn't be expecting that.

[image loading]

In a shocking twist, Larva was actually expecting that and it didn't work. But Rain finally had option C, arbiters with recall to drop his maxed Protoss army onto the remaining mining bases, forcing Larva to forfeit the bases, and therefore the game, or charge into reavers, archons, and high templar to retake them. Finally, he would have a strategy beyond attacking headlong into sunken defenses. With any base on the map his for the taking, Rain decided to go for the 12 main, with such vital contents as a hive (after Larva already had 3-3-3) and a spire.

[image loading]

Larva briefly considered contesting the recall before realizing that his sunken wall at his natural was between Rain and the way out and that Rain had effectively taken his army out of play for the price of a spire and a spawning pool.

However, Larva wasn't counting on Rain, and his trusty option B.

[image loading]

Rather than recall his army out to somewhere it might actually be useful, Rain decided to try and brute force his way through. Then, thinking better of that, he decided he'd leave them there until he could recall back out. The good news for Rain was that he had a second arbiter with recall energy. The bad news was that he flew it into scourge. While Rain was still ahead on supply and had an army mostly composed of high templar, archons, and reavers, it was divided into two separate blocks which couldn't be combined. Fortunately, Rain knew exactly what to do. Clearly it was time for a slow reaver push into the mined out 6 natural, while ignoring the fact that all of the untaken bases on the map were within the center which was completely controlled by him.

Rain decided at the last second that what he really wanted to do was actually to try and break the sunkens at the 1 natural, but to do that, he would need to move all of his reavers. Naturally he took the most direct route, flying over Larva's 3 island and the scourge kept there.

[image loading]

Rain's urgency made sense when it emerged that his recalled army at 12 was trying to push down the ramp into the sunkens and lurkers, unwilling to wait for the rest of Rain's army. This was, as with so many other things Rain did this game, not the play.

With Rain's army still divided between the survivors of his first recall and the survivors of everything else Rain had done, Larva decided to put him out of his misery.
[image loading]

GG

(actually the game continued for a bit but I am done, fuck this game)

Editorial: Honestly this was one of the worst played games I've ever seen at a pro level, and I've been watching them for 15 years now. It might be necessary for Rain to provide us some kind of proof that he's not just a macro AI that runs a looped sunken bust storm drop command string. Either way, Rainbot glitched hard today. There weren't even any resources at the bases he was suiciding his army into. And even if sniping the 12 was important, there was no reason to leave his army up there, and certainly no reason to try attacking down the ramp. Rain had this game won for 20 straight minutes if he could just work out that there was nothing he could do about Larva's first four bases, and nothing that he needed to do about them. Rain was starving Larva, not the other way around, but he seemed to be completely unaware that he had already won the game. It was just sad. Apparently Rain has absolutely no idea how to play PvZ when macro alone isn't enough.

Game 4 on Fighting Spirit:
Larva (Z) spawned in brown at 11 while Rain (P) took red at 1. Larva opened 9 pool before overlord, while Rain went 8 pylon 11 forge double probe scout. Rain scouted no hatch at Larva's natural and added a 14 cannon before nexus without scouting into the main for the pool, knowing that both 12 hat 11 pool and overpool would have had the expansion by that point. Then he blocked the natural with a pylon while sending his probe to confirm that there were six lings coming. Larva was forced to make Rain cancel his pylon, allowing Rain to take a 15 nex (with 15 probes) to Larva's 14 hatch (11 drones) expansion at the same time. Advantage Rain. Rain sealed his wall with a gateway, using a probe with a mineral in its mouth to block the gap which is a cool trick when you're against six lings with one cannon because you can hit c (return cargo) and send it sliding back through the probe behind it when lings are told to manually attack it. Meanwhile, Larva just took the 7 natural expansion, repeating his game 3 strategy of taking a fast four gas.

Larva went for three hat lair while Rain scouted him with a decently microed scout probe. Rain put three zealots on the map, two heading for 7 while one went to 12, hoping to creep into Larva's main while Larva defended 7. Larva pumped out a dozen lings and took speed but was pulled back and forth by the two pronged attack, failing to have enough lings in either place to not take damage. However Rain microed his zealots surprisingly poorly, switching off of low drones repeatedly, getting drilled, and doing far less damage than he ought to have.

[image loading]

Rain got just a handful of zerglings for his zealots, while Larva's heavy drone pumping was rewarded with a very cheap hold.

Rain's corsairs were out in time to kill two overlords before scourge but Rain didn't then retreat his corsairs and wait until he had five and +1, instead deciding to keep being active on the map with just three of them against scourge. Larva followed his scourge with three more hatcheries, a wall at both of his fronts, and the 8 main. Rain's three corsair harassment went about as well as anyone expected it to go.

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Rain went to four gateways and +1, despite the fact that Larva didn't even have a hydralisk den yet and was just making sunkens. The correct play here would have been to take the 3 expansion quickly while getting high templar, but Rain only knows one way to play. Deciding that storm is highly overrated, especially as a tool for taking earlier expansions in PvZ, Rain turned his first two high templar into an archon and decided to try and do a bust with four gateways against six hatcheries, a sim city, and sunkens. Perhaps the most charitable word for this attack is bold. Failing that, optimistic.

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Rain took 3 finally, but Larva was already on seven hatcheries and four gas bases. Rain had total map control but no real ability to break Larva. His only option was to take another expansion, perhaps at the 12 high ground, add some high templar and cannons to it, and enter the mid game on even bases and gas. Larva had completely forfeited map control in order to turtle on four bases, Rain could establish and fortify his own bases at will, using his overwhelming army in the middle of the map to keep Larva contained. With this in mind Rain decided that it would be just grand if his completely mobile army went to where Larva's completely static defense was.

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The static defense was broken but Larva was up to eight hat and simply cleaned Rain up with a single round of unit production. Now that Larva had his economy and unit production exactly where he wanted it to be, and Rain had thrown away all of his zealots, map control was no longer entirely in Rain's hands. Therefore Rain decided that the correct play would be a pure dragoon high templar push, with no zealot or archon escorts (these having all been lost in the earlier attempts to break sunkens), against eight hatcheries. It turned out that speedlings and hydralisks do pretty decently when Protoss has no zealots.

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With Larva's hive now done and map control completely forfeited, Rain decided that he couldn't actually break Larva's sunken lines and that what he really needed was to take another expansion, the 4 natural. A dt drop distracted Larva's army, pulling it back to let Rain get 4 set up, and it was back to four gas bases vs four gas bases and protoss map control. With a significant supply lead and no more expansions possible for Larva to take it looked like Rain would take it. He could fortify 4, take the free main base at 5, perhaps also take a high ground, all while denying Larva anything beyond the sunken line. All Rain needed to do was keep map control and starve his opponent, equal gas is a protoss win condition in PvZ.

Despite being even on bases as a zerg and despite being unable to contest any other expansions the protoss might take, Larva continued to add sunkens to his wall. This might sound foolish, and were you to do it on ladder you'd probably lose to a protoss that just ignored your static defense and mined out the rest of the map while you turtled. But Larva had learned the lesson from game 3, Rain cannot resist a good sunken wall. The strategic situation is irrelevant, Rain just flipping loves sunkens.

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So Rain decided that what he really wanted to do in this spot was attack. But after testing the defense, he correctly realized that it was suicide. Only one logical option remained. While many people might think that option is to keep map control, deny the 9 and 12 expansions to zerg, take the 5 main and ride the superior economy to a win, Rain knew that it was a zealot elevator attack against Larva's main.

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In a shocking twist of fate, Larva actually had scourge near his sunken lurker wall and the elevator failed. But there was no way that that could have been anticipated.

With his elevator zealots being cleaned up, Rain decided it was time to back. And by time to back, I mean time to walk his entire army through lurkers, rather than taking the clean exit looping through the 12 expansion where any attempt to clean him up could be stormed in chokes.

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Even after all these botched moves, Rain's macro was still incredibly strong. With 4 up, Rain was on equal bases, equal gases, and fifty supply up with map control. The man can make units. He has no idea what to do with the units once he's made them, but he can make them. With total map control, up on bases, and pushing 150 supply to Larva's 96, Rain knew his situation was desperate, it was now or never, he had to try and bust Larva's natural. It's not clear why he knew this, but that he knew it is certain, as evidenced by the fact that he promptly did this.

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Rain's entire army promptly died to lurkers but he macroed up another one, sitting on just a forty supply lead after his attack. Larva attacked for the first time in the game while Rain replied with a storm drop that was actually quite effective, exploiting the battle elsewhere as a distraction.

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A cute egg block on the ramp while Larva attacked 3 delayed Rain's army but Rain was able to save the expansion, his much larger army showing Larva why Larva needed to stay behind his sunkens.

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Meanwhile, the storm drop shuttle had dropped off two dts in Larva's main which had further crippled Larva's economy.

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When the dust settled Rain was over seventy supply up, had total map control and had a fifth gas base coming to Larva's two mining bases and four bases total. The game was completely over. It was unlosable. Larva had no army to speak of, no further expansions to take, no way of contesting the map which belonged entirely to Rain.

Larva, in a desperation move, threw a bunch of cracklings at 3, without even dark swarm for support. They all died.

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The game was over. Larva had just his first four bases which weren't especially high on resources, very few workers at two of them, and no army to speak of. Meanwhile Rain had the entire map, all five bases down the right hand side, an army at 12, six gas to four, and an eighty supply lead. There was basically no way for Rain to lose from this spot. Larva would need a miracle, he would need Rain to lose his entire army for nothing, to lose map control, to lose both 12 and 5 for nothing, and even if all that happened he would need Rain to allow him to take the 9 expansion. Rain promptly balled all his zealots up into a tight clump and threw them, without any real dragoon or storm support, into massed lurkers.

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Rain appeared confused that clumped zealots don't break mass lurkers, but if game 3 had taught him anything it had taught him how to follow up a massed frontal assault into lurkers. It was time for more shuttles.

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Larva attempted to take the 9 expansion with just lurkers, no defilers, while Rain still had a forty supply lead. The question was if that would be enough for Rain to deny the expansion and starve out Larva. As Rain attacked 9 Larva dropped the 5 main with a handful of cracklings and no defiler for swarm.

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However, although Rain had a high templar, he declined to storm the lings, and he had neglected to make a robo, reavers, or leave any kind of army there. He'd also declined to place scouting pylons around the edge of the base for drops. But at least Rain could turn it into a trade, his 5 main for the 9 high ground expansion, keeping them on four bases each. Rain instead decided to hesitate his attack at 9, his attention diverted to 5. Then, after the 5 nexus was already dead, he decided he would rush his army back across the map and see if he could get there in time to, I guess, well, honestly it's not clear what he was trying to do. Either way though, Larva got 9 for free.

There was another storm drop attempt at 8 which didn't do enough and it was down to five bases each, the map divided with the three central expansions left untaken. Rain still had map control though, Larva having no hope of taking 12 or 6 against the reavers Rain had added to his army. Despite everything Rain was still actually in decent shape. Forty supply up, an archon/reaver heavy army, equal bases, equal gases, the only remaining expansions in his zone of control. Larva tried another drop at 5 but this time around Rain had reavers waiting and the drop did absolutely nothing, Rain had retaken and fortified 5, the game was his. Rain therefore went allin against Larva's natural again. Naturally.

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After all, what else could he do? Not throw his army into sunkens and lurkers? Take the remaining key expansions before throwing map control away? Heresy!

Rain took just one observer with his army, a low health one that immediately died to the spore colony, apparently deciding to make things interesting. The battle was still pretty young when the observer died and Rain could have pulled out without losing too much if he wanted but at this point I don't think anyone expected him to throw his whole army into lurkers and not commit to losing every last unit.

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Somewhat baffled by the death of Rain's entire army Larva decided to capitalize upon the map control by taking the 12 expansion, finally getting ahead on bases, despite not having had map control for any part of the game. Meanwhile Rain knew exactly how to follow up a frontal attack into lurkers and sunkens, clearly it was time for a storm drop.

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Rain realized that the game would be decided by who took the 12 and 6 expansions and that he couldn't allow Larva to take them. Unfortunately he realized this after having already thrown away his entire army into a base that didn't matter at all... four times. But at least he realized it.

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Unfortunately for him he didn't have the units left to force the ramp against lurkers, his only option was to accept that Larva had 12 and to fortify 6 with cannons, high templar, and reavers himself. He therefore tried to force the ramp against lurkers, and lost all his army. Clearly it was time for another storm drop.

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It all came down to the critical 6 expansion. Larva was basically mined out at his first four bases but had two new ones to survive. Meanwhile Rain's 5 main was fresh, with 6 it'd be a low eco war for the middle. There was nothing for it, Rain knew what he had to do, it was time for a full on attack move assault at the lurker defense at Larva's natural with a single observer, flown into scourge.

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To the surprise of absolutely nobody, Rain's attack didn't work. But that was okay, Rain had one last trick in his sleeve. A full on frontal attack into the lurkers, after first having everything plagued.

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And he had the perfect followup to that, a storm drop!

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With the game almost over the only thing Rain had going for him was that he still, somehow, had map control. He could still take and hold 6 and the middle with reavers, high templar, cannons, and maybe a few dark archons. Larva had mined out both mains and nats. With a failed drop or two the game would break down into a low eco stalemate. All Rain needed to do was not throw his entire plagued army into a line of sunkens and lurkers behind which were no mining bases, thereby losing map control with no potential upside.

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was there ever really any doubt that he would do this?

GG

Editorial: This game made it abundantly clear that Rain has absolutely no idea how to play PvZ beyond macroing. No strategic sense whatsoever. His macro is amazing, I can't take that from him, that's the only reason he was still "winning" for 25 straight minutes of suiciding army after army into a sunken line that didn't even defend anything of value and seemed to exist only for the purpose of baiting Rain. But he has no clue what to do against a turtling Zerg, and no idea how to close out a game. Artosis famously said "when you're ahead, get more ahead" and PvZ on Fighting Spirit that couldn't be simpler, the expansions are ridiculously easy to defend with storm, cannons, and reavers. Map control translates directly into expansions which, even if you never attack and simply mine them out, deny the Zerg any possibility of winning. At 18 minutes in to the game Rain had to make a series of around eight completely unforced errors to even give Larva a glimmer of hope. Rain scoffed at that, instead choosing to make nothing but unforced errors for the rest of the game.

Quit Starcraft. Really.

Group B Recap

Game of Swarms

The lights reflect off of soulkey's boldly rimmed glasses. Hero while nervous remains on the surface calm and steady. The players will need an unshakable tenacity for even a single mistake can mean utter defeat for tonight's ZvZ. Whoever wins tonight will be worthy of playing Larva in yet another ZvZ to prove who is the king of the swarm.

Game 1 on Gladiator:
The first game spawns Soulkey on the top left and hero in the bottom left. Soulkey decides to go for an aggressive 9 pool. Unfortunately for Soulkey, hero's overlord scouts him first, spotting his lair timing and realizing his lair first. Hero on the other hand goes overpool expand, probably expecting the 9 pool which proves strong on a map with inverted ramps and a semi-close rush distance. Soulkey not committing to aggression, instead focusing on his tech, leaves hero to a free expansion.

While Soulkey's economy is slightly behind, he gains map control and forces hero to invest in spore colonies.

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Following the mutas in tow is a deadly mass ling offensive that threatens to catch hero off guard if he drones too much. Fortunately, hero with good game sense, accounting for Soulkey's number of lings and the speed upgrade, made lings for safety that complete as Soulkey launches his attack.

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Meanwhile, Soulkey's base was strewn with several drone carcasses with a single ling from hero still chomping away. Soulkey, losing on both fronts, concedes an anticlimactic first game, setting the tone of an uphill battle for Soulkey.

Game 2 on Fighting Spirit:
Soulkey spawns in the bottom right, and hero in the bottom left. As both players go 9 pool, a decisive drone is killed off by a ling that passed through hero's ramp. Losing a critical drone, hero lags behind an increasing number of minerals amounting to the hundreds the longer the game goes on. The tremendous ripples of a single drop of a drone grows apparent for hero. Having a far slower expansion, hero's second gas is far slower than Soulkey's. Eager to deepen his advantage, he presses hero with his muta flock.

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Gradually, after hero suffers too many scourge hits, Soulkey snowballs in muta count. Hero's muta remnants are hunted down by scourge as hero is helpless to micro against them with so few. Soulkey effectively strikes back to make the series 1-1.

Game 3 on Crossing Field:
hero spawns on the right side across from Soulkey. Hero places all of his hopes in a 9 pool, a build that aims to counter the expected 12 hatch. Soulkey more than obliges as his misfortune grows two fold, taking the front door base. Taking the front base for a shorter rush distance for later aggression, Soulkey's plan of attack is completely undermined by hero's even earlier aggression.

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Soulkey's problems only began as hero decisively calculates Soulkey's overlord path, so his lings en route across the map go undetected only until Soulkey's second hatchery has finished. Abandoning his completed expansion, Soulkey cuts his losses, making a sunken in his main. While continuing to make drones, hero refuses to relent from his aggression.

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With more lings, he swept in for the kill, finishing off several of Soulkey's paltry lings and drones to gain the drone count lead. The following mutalisk followup overwhelmed Soulkey who can only summon a meager two mutalisks and two scourge as hero charged forth. In an elaborately planned game and impressive gamble, hero is one game away from taking the series.

Game 4 on Gold Rush:
Hero spawns at the 12 oclock and Soulkey, one game away from defeat spawns center left. A near moment of deja vu, hero plays the 9 pool card again, an unexpected move, but history is not repeated. Soulkey is saved only by his slightly more safer variation of a hatch first build, going 11 hatchery, then 11 pool.

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Hero's initial attempts to destroy Soulkey's expansion are thwarted by stellar drone micro. Losing only 3-4 drones, and keeping the expansion alive, but pulling nearly all of his drones in the defense kept both players nearly even. As hero followed up with mutalisks, he pulled drones from gas, and made a hidden hatchery at the edge of his main base. In a miracle similar to the one versus Shine, his hatchery goes undetected by mere pixels by Soulkey's overlord. With a third hatchery at the expansion and hidden from Soulkey's scouting lings, hero's intentions are not realized yet. Then he struck! Soulkey at the decisive moment has three drones popping just as hero swoops in for the kill.

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However, another miracle occurs, the audience spectating the ultimate hold by Soulkey as his just morphing sunken colony, drones, and lings desperately cling on. Eventually, hero's all-in peters out, leaving him far behind in gas income, later losing to Soulkey's mutalisks.

Game 5 on Gladiator:
In the final game on Gladiator once again, hero spawned in the bottom right and Soulkey spawned in the bottom left. Hero, truly the mind reader goes for overpool, a slight advantage over Soulkey's 9 pool. The early game is uneventful as both are heavily turtled until mutalisks come out. Soulkey's early speed and faster lings give him map control, allowing him to take his expansion earlier. However, hero has a superior gas count and faster spire while Soulkey invested in zergling speed. Soulkey, seizing a chance at victory brings the battle to hero. However, hero successfully micros versus scourge as Soulkey takes a few too many scourge hits himself.


Hero's superior build showing its merits in an explosive clash, Soulkey is left with a flock dissolving into thin air along with his chances of winning the ASL.

Based on limited information, including the habits of his opponent, the maps played on, and taking incredible risks of his own, hero pulled off a feat of victory by calculated risk. Anticipating from his opponent's habits and the maps played on, his play displayed extensive preparation. He made plays that actively sought to consider and outsmart Soulkey doing singular specific builds. While looking unfair, hero's plays could've easily put himself into a disadvantaged position. If Soulkey had not sought his own equally risky plays in the economic end of the zerg build spectrum, the story could've been much more different.

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Regardless of who won, Soulkey and hero fans join hands, rewarded by hero's smile which is alone worth living for.
Everyone wins. Everyone.

Group D Preview

Expectant Result

(Z)Killer has already gone beyond all expectations for the season considering how he got his start, however, this is undoubtedly the hardest part for him especially since (P)Bisu has been competitive about being on top of the sponmatch ladder.

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Taek a minute or two to compose yourself before going into it

Bisu is holding a 69.7% winrate in October in PvZ (most of his games are against Larva, although at this point that's actually a great way to measure skill in the matchup) and Killer on the hand has not been documented greatly since he has been for the most part preparing in secret with his last recorded sponmatches happening about 10 days ago. This makes predicting an outcome based on statistics more difficult. On the one hand, Killer is more than capable of being able to snipe out Bisu, which given the history of his past ASL runs is entirely possible and most likely how he would always go out. On the other hand, what Killer has shown so far in the month is very much indicative of his current level and will easily get 3-0’d by Bisu.

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A return to form?

Every season Bisu usually comes this far in a purely dominating fashion, not just winning against his opponents but just dominating them with beautiful play in the group stages. However, he starts showing some unrefined play in the bracket stage, although on paper against Killer, he absolutely would not end up this way and should easily crush Killer 3-0 with great ease. But, I’ve said the same thing about his series against Shine in the Ro4 of ASL3.

Killer has the best storyline this season, reminiscent of Jangbi's (Wiki)2011 Jin Air OSL run and for that reason, I can't help but root for him to overcome all odds and pull an absolute Killer series against Bisu (pun very much intended) and return to the form he had during his SSL runs back in 2013.

My head says Bisu wins 3-0 with Killer getting decimated entirely by the revolutionist.
My heart says Killer 3-2 because BW needs a damn miracle that shakes up the expected results.

Group E Preview

Mind Engaged

(T)Flash is known by many fans as the greatest player of all time and one of the hardest workers in the scene. During the KeSPA era, he had one of the longest TvT win streaks and has been known for his impeccable macro, strong micro and decision making skills. His ability to sniff out cheese is also uncanning and only few, if any can claim to have such an ability. This makes it all the more difficult to cheese him while facing him in a standard game means a potential disadvantage for his opponent.

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Build off... must be cheesing

After coming back to the scene with ASL, he was beaten by (T)Last 3-0, a smear on his good name by all accounts despite Last being a monster of his own. Vowing revenge for the Ro8 exit, Flash eventually had his chance and dismantled Last when they met in the last ASL, a 3-0 in dominating fashion. One thing is certain with Flash, he understands the matchup well and his stellar macro can help him elevate himself to the next level. However, (T)Mind is no slouch either. Ever since his main donor threatened to pull out during the ASL2 days, Mind has been hard at work trying to recover the skill level that he once had.

Back when he first returned to the scene, he was considered the best terran at the time, however, he fell a bit afterwards. He has recovered some of those old skills and his results have been fantastic. His TvT against (T)Rush in the deciding match in the Ro24 showed that Mind is able to remain calm and make good decisions even when placed in a dire situation. He looked extremely dominant in his match against (T)sSak on Gold Rush, despite sSak beating Last this ASL on Crossing Field and being his own enigma last ASL by beating a bunch of strong players. His macro does leave a bit to be desired at times, but his potential is one of the highest in the game. If he's able to practice and prepare well, he has a chance to best Flash.

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If we look at the most recent results, the last 9 matches or so for the players (too far back and the skill differential is too much), we notice that they have both beaten plenty of strong players and sit at an even 8-1 winrate. The matchup has been seeing more dropship use lately and air dominance might be key for Mind if he wishes to upset the returning champ. This is a difficult one to call for me. Flash certainly has the advantage. Of that, there is no doubt, however, Mind still has a chance and if anyone can upset Flash, it would be him. I'm going with the heart here, 3-2 Mind in quite the thriller final game. Let's go Mind!


Writers: KwarK, Ty2, BLinD-RawR, BigFan
Graphics: Shiroiusagi
Editors: BigFan
Photo Credits: Liquipedia, Dailyesports, Sbenu
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Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
RWLabs
Profile Joined March 2017
Korea (South)273 Posts
October 22 2017 06:12 GMT
#2
I don't know... I feel like Baxter (or Killer) is Shine in spirit with his off-the-wall crazy builds. I think it's entirely possible that Bisu loses without playing a single macro game against Baxter.

Also what kind of a name is Baxter?
Aldaris was the good guy of Brood War.
DropBear
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia4351 Posts
October 22 2017 06:30 GMT
#3
That poor man has a family Kwark!
Sucker for nostalgia
pinkbowtie1
Profile Joined September 2017
23 Posts
October 22 2017 06:31 GMT
#4
I normally enjoy reading these, but Kwark seemed unnecessarily angry at Rain. Comments like:

"Honestly this was one of the worst played games I've ever seen at a pro level"

"Quit Starcraft. Really."

are extremely unnecessary and unfortunately are a bit disappointing given the (normally) high level of quality, unbiased writing. I'm not sure if this is because he is a Rain fan and it hurt him to see Rain lose, or whatever the reason may be. Did Rain make bad decisions? Yes. Would he still beat most zergs out there? Yes. Did Larva play well? Yes. Does it justify this level of hatred? I don't think so.
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4126 Posts
October 22 2017 06:36 GMT
#5
Awesome writeup! Abit too harsh on Rain but I agree with you especially on game 4. If he had just turtled and got the 12 and 6 o'clock bases he would have won.
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
687 Posts
October 22 2017 06:42 GMT
#6
As a Rain fan, this was hard to read. As a Starcraft fan... you're nothing but right sadly
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-22 08:23:37
October 22 2017 07:53 GMT
#7
The article about Rain is so full of fan bias I could hardly make myself read it. Seriously, you call this objective or good writing?

First it was the series against JD which was full of praise and how good is Rain in PvZ , now how he "absolutely no idea how to play PvZ". This has been one of the best PvZ series this year and everyone will agree. But you covered it with your unneeded fanboism like an expired liver spread over a warm donut. Jesus KwarK, please next time don't write reviews if any of your favourite players lose or win, nobody want to read you subjective ranting about how Rain is bad in PvZ which is obviously not right but you deliberately making it look like that because you wanted him to win. Again, I am afraid to think what would you write if he actually won the game. This is ridiculous.
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6174 Posts
October 22 2017 07:59 GMT
#8
What Starcraft fans (me) need is a Bisu vs Flash finals, not an unexpected miracle with killer or mind shaking up the results
hiro protagonist
Profile Joined January 2009
1294 Posts
October 22 2017 08:04 GMT
#9
Yeah, with Rain and Soulkey out, there is no one on that side of the bracket to challenge Flash. So that makes me sad.

On the other hand, Bisu might just beat Flash and we might have a Bisu vs Larva finals which will be really good and could go ether way
"I guess if you climb enough off-widths, one of these days, your gonna get your knee stuck and shit your pants. Its just an odds thing really" -Jason Kruk
pinkbowtie1
Profile Joined September 2017
23 Posts
October 22 2017 08:55 GMT
#10
On October 22 2017 16:53 letian wrote:
The article about Rain is so full of fan bias I could hardly make myself read it. Seriously, you call this objective or good writing?

First it was the series against JD which was full of praise and how good is Rain in PvZ , now how he "absolutely no idea how to play PvZ". This has been one of the best PvZ series this year and everyone will agree. But you covered it with your unneeded fanboism like an expired liver spread over a warm donut. Jesus KwarK, please next time don't write reviews if any of your favourite players lose or win, nobody want to read you subjective ranting about how Rain is bad in PvZ which is obviously not right but you deliberately making it look like that because you wanted him to win. Again, I am afraid to think what would you write if he actually won the game. This is ridiculous.


Completely agree, these matches, especially match 3, was absolutely fantastic to watch.

Larva played like a god, and Rain kept him on the ropes for so long. The way Kwark wrote it gave so little credit to Larva, who showed one of the most impressive late-game defences/multi-tasking we have seen in a while. Infact, Larva's play made beating Rain look like child's play, but everyone knows Rain is a beast and would be able to challenge (and beat) most of the pro zerg players, bar maybe Soulkey, Larva, and Effort.
Zealgoon
Profile Joined January 2013
China187 Posts
October 22 2017 09:28 GMT
#11
I think this is the first time I heard someone telling a player to "quit Starcraft" in a battle report. Yeah, Rain's decision making in these games was questionable, but that's a bit too much.

What's so ridiculous about doing storm drops in PvZ anyway?
Netto.
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Poland523 Posts
October 22 2017 09:32 GMT
#12
On October 22 2017 16:53 letian wrote:
The article about Rain is so full of fan bias I could hardly make myself read it. Seriously, you call this objective or good writing?

First it was the series against JD which was full of praise and how good is Rain in PvZ , now how he "absolutely no idea how to play PvZ". This has been one of the best PvZ series this year and everyone will agree. But you covered it with your unneeded fanboism like an expired liver spread over a warm donut. Jesus KwarK, please next time don't write reviews if any of your favourite players lose or win, nobody want to read you subjective ranting about how Rain is bad in PvZ which is obviously not right but you deliberately making it look like that because you wanted him to win. Again, I am afraid to think what would you write if he actually won the game. This is ridiculous.


Agreed. I still waiting for people to realize that Larva may simply be that good and it is not Rain who played badly, but Larva who played very well and defended perfectly.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
October 22 2017 09:57 GMT
#13
My god this was a big post. Maybe you should have considered splitting it in two? It was a very nice set of battlereports and good info on the Bisu/Killer game too!
bigmetazltank
Profile Joined September 2017
34 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-22 11:21:04
October 22 2017 11:07 GMT
#14
On October 22 2017 18:28 Zealgoon wrote:
I think this is the first time I heard someone telling a player to "quit Starcraft" in a battle report. Yeah, Rain's decision making in these games was questionable, but that's a bit too much.

What's so ridiculous about doing storm drops in PvZ anyway?


Storm drops' purpose is two-fold. Its to kill the economy, yes, but its also there to help slow down the zerg/mess with their macro by forcing them to spend a macro cycle building drones rather than offensive units. I dunno the number but it feels like a very high percentage of Bisu's storm drops happen around the time he's planning or had a big army engage.

The problem with Rain's storm drops are that they don't really achieve the second purpose because Larva had a huge number of hatches and didn't really play a game that depended on a strong economy. Namely because Rain wasn't doing anything with his map control after Larva said "go ahead, take it I don't plan on having a huge standing army". All Larva really needed was enough income to support base defense because of Rain's constant aggression.

So there wasn't any reason for Rain to actually keep doing storm drops. All he's doing is throwing 300/300 to kill like 8 drones...which given the number of bases and Larva's playstyle doesn't achieve a whole lot except make Larva mine out slower. We've seen a lot of protoss players throw games away by constantly doing storm drops only to end up starving themselves out because the protoss fails to secure enough mining bases while counter-intuitively helping the zerg mine out slower.

All the credit to Larva for some good play and in-series decision making (dude quickly figured out to straight turtle) but Kwark, while needlessly telling him to quit Starcraft, is pretty right in his assessment. Rain did was the equivalent of the Houston Rocket's offense - you're going to bust most teams in the regular season but you're going to die in the post-season because teams know your offensive is one dimensional and is extremely tiring to execute correctly. That's basically what happened here.
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1707 Posts
October 22 2017 11:42 GMT
#15
thanks for the write-ups. just read this after watching bisu-killer match and i’m not spoiling anything so my thiughts prior to bisu-killer was - of course i’m rooting for bisu and it looks like an easy series for him but somehow i feel he’s going to pull an upset. so i totally agree with the prediction, except my mind says 3-0 bisu and heart 3-1 bisu. i want killer to win one game to spice things up a bit and make the series a little exciting.
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1707 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-22 12:13:28
October 22 2017 12:07 GMT
#16
I am curious to know now who is right regarding the Larva vs Rain series. Disregarding Kwark's harsh comments, did Rain play the series that badly? A lot of people found that series entertaining, but that doesnt necessarily mean that Rain didnt play bad.

Despite me being a Terran player who has absolutely no idea how to play PvZ, I strongly disagreed with a lot of more knowledgeable fellow posters that Rain had to kill Larva during that game or risk being overrun by a 4 base Zerg. And Kwark seems to share the same opinion -- and to an even greater degree by saying that Rain had "already won". I just thought that Rain wouldnt be at a disadvantage even if he doesnt break Larva.

If Kwark really thought Rain screwed up the games that badly, I can understand the harsh words he had to say. I would like to know though (just to improve my understanding of PvZ), how badly did Rain screw up? You have Kwark on one end saying he had no idea how to play PvZ (at least vs a turtle zerg). And the others saying he did what he needed to do but Larva played amazing defense. I am tilting towards Kwark's analysis. These busts look impressive when they work but a really good player is one who can gauge whether they would succeed or not. If you always just go for the bust and they just work most of the time on account of being that much better than your opponent, its no longer that impressive.

I would like to stress that I also was very impressed with Larva's defense. Its just that Rain played straight into his hands by apparently playing the only way he knows how.
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1707 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-22 12:31:01
October 22 2017 12:25 GMT
#17
Is playing against a turtle zerg the same concept as when Flash first came up with the "Flash build" for TvP with armories and goliaths. It was defense oriented but also extremely greedy. So much so that the first response everyone had for it was to try and break flash since he was expanding at an alarming rate with so few units. Sometimes this worked but most of the time Flash just deflected everything.

It took a while for protoss players to realize that the correct response was just to expand even more. You'd have the scary prospect of facing Flash in late game, but would have a huge economic advantage.

I bring it up because I think there are interesting parallels. Trying to break through can definitely work. And most Terrans would probably get crushed. The skill level needed to play such an amazing level of defense is extremely impressive.

But the decision itself to try the bust was eventually proven to be suboptimal.
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-22 12:30:58
October 22 2017 12:27 GMT
#18
I guess my impression at the time of watching the Larva vs Rain series is that, if Rain didn't attack, Larva would max out, plague Rain's entire army, and eventually overwhelm him. Once Rain was nearly maxed, his army isn't getting any bigger, so any delay just improves Larva's situation.

Clearly Rain made many mistakes in the series. I'm guessing he often wins PvZ by macroing really well and a-moving, so he might not be too experienced at decision-making when that doesn't work. It's not often that Zerg's defenses are impenetrable AND they shut down every storm drop you send. Yeah, I dunno, maybe Rain isn't super experienced with really late game, standoff style PvZ.

The write-up was overly harsh toward Rain, especially at the end, and didn't give enough credit to Larva for his excellent defense, especially of the drop attempts. Statements like "Quit Starcraft. Really." do not belong on TeamLiquid.
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1707 Posts
October 22 2017 12:34 GMT
#19
On October 22 2017 21:27 Dromar wrote:
Statements like "Quit Starcraft. Really." do not belong on TeamLiquid.

I dont know where I stand yet on Kwark's decision on how to express his disgust for the games.
But for the purposes of objectively analyzing the series, maybe we can all pretend just for now at least, that Kwark didnt disparage Rain.
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-22 12:45:23
October 22 2017 12:44 GMT
#20
^ please use the edit button next time for that earlier triple post lol. We usually action for that but rather avoid having to do so ^^

Personally, I think Kwark was too harsh on Rain. I thought the series was amazing overall aside from game 4 which was good in its own right. Larva had fantastic holds and some of the best drop defense in ZvP that I've ever seen. It must've been frustrating as hell for Rain to constantly try over and over and for his usual not to work.

There's a good chance that Rain has never played a defensive zerg before so it figures that he wouldn't have a solution for it. Game 1 and 2 were fine, good games all around. Game 3 was great and the game was close. Larva stuck to the side bases and defended while he allowed Rain some free reign in the center knowing that it'll be harder to defend some of those bases.

I would say only game 4 had its issues and for me, it was that Rain should've known that Larva's defense is superb from game 3 and try something else. However, hindsight is 20/20. We have no clue just what Rain was thinking, why he kept doing what he was doing or what was going on at the time. It's extremely easy for someone to be judgemental but when you're the one in the game, you work with limited information and have no clue what the opponents plan is or what's going to happen.

As for KwarK's "Quit Starcraft. Really.", I wouldn't think much of it. He was pretty frustrated after having watched games 3 and 4 and believing that Rain threw away "won" games. I disagree because I think Rain probably just underestimated Larva even after game 3 and probably had other thought but to each his own. Well played Larva.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
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