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SC:R Launch Detected - Page 9

Forum Index > BW General
973 CommentsPost a Reply
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B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
July 04 2017 16:21 GMT
#161
I am sorely missing observer tools when watching my own replays for analysis purposes.
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
Little-Chimp
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada948 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-04 16:48:27
July 04 2017 16:47 GMT
#162
On July 04 2017 14:43 Jealous wrote:
Lol. So they implement measures to prevent current pro competitions. They make old school servers impractical for novel users. Put $15 on the ladder pricetag. And people are meant to swallow this.

Kk


Ya? 15 bucks is nothing for a revised brood war scene with a good matchmaking system and updated graphics.

Blizz made a dumb move saying matchmaking would be implemented in 1.18, but no one is entitled to new features for free.
207aicila
Profile Joined January 2015
1237 Posts
July 04 2017 16:51 GMT
#163
On July 05 2017 01:47 Little-Chimp wrote:

Blizz made a dumb move saying matchmaking would be implemented in 1.18, but no one is entitled to new features for free.


Ultimately yeah this is what it comes down to... they should've announced it this way from the start and no one would have batted an eye. As it stands, some people are feeling like they've been bait and switched and with good reason.
mfw people who never followed BW speak about sAviOr as if they know anything... -___-''''
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10698 Posts
July 04 2017 18:20 GMT
#164
On July 05 2017 00:59 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2017 15:16 eviltomahawk wrote:
On July 02 2017 13:42 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On July 02 2017 04:26 blunderfulguy wrote:
Now, BW bouncing back again in Korea makes it a great time to launch SC:R regardless of the rest of the world's esports or casual gaming spaces. It really makes me wonder not just how it's going to do but what would be good for War1/2/3, D2, or other old games that don't seem to have the same "Renaissance" eras that BW has in Korea. Games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Age of Empires have gotten HD remasters but not to this scale/quality and kind of just make it off of GOG/Steam sales. Planescape: Torment has gotten similar HD treatment (iirc) and even a "spiritual successor/remake" in Torment: Tides of Numenera, which was hyped to the extreme during the incredibly huge Kickstarter but not so much at launch.

Getting off topic though.

War 1 and War 2 have not held up well.D1 they tried to remake it in D3 or somethinga few years ago.Wasn't great apparently.

Diablo 2 and War3 are good possibilities for a remastered version when the classic games team has finished SC remastered.
Personally i think it could be D2 remastered followed by War3


D1 in D3 was just done earlier this year, and it wasn't even a remaster. It was literally D3 dungeons with reskinned monsters with a pixelated shader and 8-direction movement.

WC3 is a good possibility since background images were datamined from the Blizzard app years ago. Since classic BW is going up on the Blizzard app when SC:R releases, WC3 could see a similar treatment, though it doesn't need a remaster as much.

I think WC3 could benefit from a remake where they change some of the mechanics and spells and such, which I would never find acceptable for BW. WC3 combat is predicated not on unit movement and finicky pathfinding mechanics, but on spells and abilities that can easily be tweaked used by a stable of heroes which can be easily expanded. I think DotA proves that such games benefit from constant mothering, because they operate on the principle of more = better, as opposed to BW which is more chess-like in having the minimum set of units to create compelling dynamics.


Uhm... Pathing and stuff seems even more important in wc3, all the bodyblocks' surrounds.... Are you mad?
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
July 04 2017 18:31 GMT
#165
On July 05 2017 01:21 B-royal wrote:
I am sorely missing observer tools when watching my own replays for analysis purposes.

That could be an interesting compromise. More observer tools when watching replays but not when watching live games. It could be good for post-game analysis without tempting observers to use them in live games.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
PuroYO
Profile Joined May 2014
Norway163 Posts
July 05 2017 06:32 GMT
#166
On June 30 2017 21:46 Jealous wrote:
Then go play SC2 and don't shit up the thread? That's what I implied to opisska but it seems you're too dense for the message.

User was temp banned for this post.


Can someone explain why this is worthy of a ban?
Unless everyone here are 12 years old I think people can handle being called dense without having to ban someone.
Science above all. - Go Snute!
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-05 09:20:03
July 05 2017 09:04 GMT
#167
On July 05 2017 01:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Well i would like it to have these features simply because you theoretically could show these things when analyzing the game. In my ideal world that would happen after the game is already done, some sort of analysis desk.

I like the argument in the interview:
Show nested quote +
They’re now doing too much analysis, too much forethought and too much ‘Oh the game is probably over now because according to this statistic, he now loses 97% of the time if this happens’. That’s terrible.


That's exactly the problem imo. WHen talking about observer mode before i oftentimes used a similar concept. Would anybody really want to see win% in different scenarious all the time? That would be even more information, but why then even watch the game? Watching the game should be entertainment, it gets less and less entertaining though the more information you have. Just like you don't wanna know immediately who the murderer is in the mystery novel, same concept.

But as i said before, having all these tools for analysis would be great. Players who watch the game also want to learn how to play the game. At that point a lack of features is a negative.

This exists for chess broadcasts: the computer engine evaluation of a position, which tells you with very high confidence who is winning, and what the best moves to play are. But a lot of people complain about this, and many commentators try to avoid abusing it, only occasionally mentioning (with some embarrassment) that according to the engine this or that move they overlooked is winning.

The analogy doesn't hold completely though, because the chess engine also gives you move suggestions and this brings something to broadcasts because you can learn about interesting tactics possible in positions. And in Starcraft it's typically more obvious who is winning based on supply numbers and some general knowledge, while chess strategy and tactics are more obscure.

It could be argued that the engine evaluation in chess serves to give full information, akin to removing the fog of war. It then creates suspense because you are wondering whether the players will find the solution. The tension created by the juxtaposition between the player's limited perspective and the viewer's omniscience has been noted as one of the main draws of BW broadcasts by Korean commentators.

On July 05 2017 03:31 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 01:21 B-royal wrote:
I am sorely missing observer tools when watching my own replays for analysis purposes.

That could be an interesting compromise. More observer tools when watching replays but not when watching live games. It could be good for post-game analysis without tempting observers to use them in live games.

I think the basic issue here is that Blizzard has to develop tools only so that people can not use them when watching live games. And it is a slippery slope, because once the tools exist for replays Blizzard will be pressured to add them to live games too.

On July 05 2017 03:20 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 00:59 Grumbels wrote:
On July 02 2017 15:16 eviltomahawk wrote:
On July 02 2017 13:42 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On July 02 2017 04:26 blunderfulguy wrote:
Now, BW bouncing back again in Korea makes it a great time to launch SC:R regardless of the rest of the world's esports or casual gaming spaces. It really makes me wonder not just how it's going to do but what would be good for War1/2/3, D2, or other old games that don't seem to have the same "Renaissance" eras that BW has in Korea. Games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Age of Empires have gotten HD remasters but not to this scale/quality and kind of just make it off of GOG/Steam sales. Planescape: Torment has gotten similar HD treatment (iirc) and even a "spiritual successor/remake" in Torment: Tides of Numenera, which was hyped to the extreme during the incredibly huge Kickstarter but not so much at launch.

Getting off topic though.

War 1 and War 2 have not held up well.D1 they tried to remake it in D3 or somethinga few years ago.Wasn't great apparently.

Diablo 2 and War3 are good possibilities for a remastered version when the classic games team has finished SC remastered.
Personally i think it could be D2 remastered followed by War3


D1 in D3 was just done earlier this year, and it wasn't even a remaster. It was literally D3 dungeons with reskinned monsters with a pixelated shader and 8-direction movement.

WC3 is a good possibility since background images were datamined from the Blizzard app years ago. Since classic BW is going up on the Blizzard app when SC:R releases, WC3 could see a similar treatment, though it doesn't need a remaster as much.

I think WC3 could benefit from a remake where they change some of the mechanics and spells and such, which I would never find acceptable for BW. WC3 combat is predicated not on unit movement and finicky pathfinding mechanics, but on spells and abilities that can easily be tweaked used by a stable of heroes which can be easily expanded. I think DotA proves that such games benefit from constant mothering, because they operate on the principle of more = better, as opposed to BW which is more chess-like in having the minimum set of units to create compelling dynamics.


Uhm... Pathing and stuff seems even more important in wc3, all the bodyblocks' surrounds.... Are you mad?

I don't think this is worth discussing, but pathfinding is way more important relatively to the feel of BW than it is for WC3. You literally only have to keep the ability to block units and otherwise you can use any arbitrary type of pathfinding for WC3, since you're controlling every unit individually anyway. Also, I'm of the opinion that WC3 is slightly too blocky and slow-paced and that it could benefit from an improved pathfinding (and assorted changes for unit stats) while not affecting the essence of the game. I don't think this is true for the transition from BW to SC2, where changing the unit movement was incredibly fundamental and necessitated throwing everything overboard.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
nikj
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada669 Posts
July 05 2017 22:07 GMT
#168
On July 05 2017 15:32 PuroYO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2017 21:46 Jealous wrote:
Then go play SC2 and don't shit up the thread? That's what I implied to opisska but it seems you're too dense for the message.

User was temp banned for this post.


Can someone explain why this is worthy of a ban?
Unless everyone here are 12 years old I think people can handle being called dense without having to ban someone.


This question is best asked and answered in Website Feedback.
Y'know sometimes people ask me y'know like "What's your religion and stuff?" And I'm like "y' know it's like RTS." Uh, and they're like, "What's that?" And I'm like, "Y'know it's kinda like, kinda like Buddism."
blunderfulguy
Profile Blog Joined April 2016
United States1415 Posts
July 06 2017 06:02 GMT
#169
On July 05 2017 03:20 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 00:59 Grumbels wrote:
On July 02 2017 15:16 eviltomahawk wrote:
On July 02 2017 13:42 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On July 02 2017 04:26 blunderfulguy wrote:
Now, BW bouncing back again in Korea makes it a great time to launch SC:R regardless of the rest of the world's esports or casual gaming spaces. It really makes me wonder not just how it's going to do but what would be good for War1/2/3, D2, or other old games that don't seem to have the same "Renaissance" eras that BW has in Korea. Games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Age of Empires have gotten HD remasters but not to this scale/quality and kind of just make it off of GOG/Steam sales. Planescape: Torment has gotten similar HD treatment (iirc) and even a "spiritual successor/remake" in Torment: Tides of Numenera, which was hyped to the extreme during the incredibly huge Kickstarter but not so much at launch.

Getting off topic though.

War 1 and War 2 have not held up well.D1 they tried to remake it in D3 or somethinga few years ago.Wasn't great apparently.

Diablo 2 and War3 are good possibilities for a remastered version when the classic games team has finished SC remastered.
Personally i think it could be D2 remastered followed by War3


D1 in D3 was just done earlier this year, and it wasn't even a remaster. It was literally D3 dungeons with reskinned monsters with a pixelated shader and 8-direction movement.

WC3 is a good possibility since background images were datamined from the Blizzard app years ago. Since classic BW is going up on the Blizzard app when SC:R releases, WC3 could see a similar treatment, though it doesn't need a remaster as much.

I think WC3 could benefit from a remake where they change some of the mechanics and spells and such, which I would never find acceptable for BW. WC3 combat is predicated not on unit movement and finicky pathfinding mechanics, but on spells and abilities that can easily be tweaked used by a stable of heroes which can be easily expanded. I think DotA proves that such games benefit from constant mothering, because they operate on the principle of more = better, as opposed to BW which is more chess-like in having the minimum set of units to create compelling dynamics.


Uhm... Pathing and stuff seems even more important in wc3, all the bodyblocks' surrounds.... Are you mad?

Yeah I was about to write this, for another time/thread, though.
Blunder Man doing everything thing a blunder can.
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
July 06 2017 06:56 GMT
#170
So tommorow is 7th July and we get unit presentation according to starcraft.com ?
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10671 Posts
July 07 2017 16:51 GMT
#171
August 14th, the day that the world as we know changes. Can't wait! Thanks for the amazing post and write-up, answered a lot of my questions.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
DropBear
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia4353 Posts
July 07 2017 17:11 GMT
#172
Does anyone know if Blizzard has indicated which multiplayer maps will ship with remastered? I would assume laddering will be on well known balanced maps like circuit breaker, fighting spirit etc

Would be cool if they had a whole bunch of kespa maps instead of their own lul
Sucker for nostalgia
NickHotS
Profile Joined May 2014
United States105 Posts
July 07 2017 20:05 GMT
#173
On July 06 2017 15:56 739 wrote:
So tommorow is 7th July and we get unit presentation according to starcraft.com ?

Unit Spotlight: Protoss is now live!
CobaltBlu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States919 Posts
July 07 2017 21:04 GMT
#174
On July 08 2017 05:05 NickHotS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2017 15:56 739 wrote:
So tommorow is 7th July and we get unit presentation according to starcraft.com ?

Unit Spotlight: Protoss is now live!


Seeing how drones can have the same kind of explosion sprite as firebats and siege tanks makes me believe that animation is a placeholder. I wish someone from Blizz would step in and clear that up. I'm interested to see the additional F7 effects in action.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
July 07 2017 21:26 GMT
#175
On July 08 2017 06:04 CobaltBlu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2017 05:05 NickHotS wrote:
On July 06 2017 15:56 739 wrote:
So tommorow is 7th July and we get unit presentation according to starcraft.com ?

Unit Spotlight: Protoss is now live!


Seeing how drones can have the same kind of explosion sprite as firebats and siege tanks makes me believe that animation is a placeholder. I wish someone from Blizz would step in and clear that up. I'm interested to see the additional F7 effects in action.

Drones had the same explosion sprite as firebats in classic BW as well. Siege tanks had a slightly different explosion, and I think they still arguably have a slightly different explosion in SC:R as well. Going back to the videos, siege tanks explode with a slightly longer animation that has more of a radiating orange tint. Small explosions, like SCVs, vultures, firebats, goliaths, and drones share a smaller explosion that is smokier.

It seems that they're replacing the explosion sprites, but not making a greater variation of explosion sprites between units.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
ii.blitzkrieg
Profile Joined November 2006
Canada1122 Posts
July 07 2017 21:33 GMT
#176
Pretty sure that explosion animation in the drone gif is the mineral the drone is carrying exploding (like in BW)

Drones don't explode in BW but if they are carrying minerals the mineral will explode
iloveoov / Flash / Fantasy / Midas / Boxer -BW forever
CobaltBlu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States919 Posts
July 07 2017 21:59 GMT
#177
On July 08 2017 06:26 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2017 06:04 CobaltBlu wrote:
On July 08 2017 05:05 NickHotS wrote:
On July 06 2017 15:56 739 wrote:
So tommorow is 7th July and we get unit presentation according to starcraft.com ?

Unit Spotlight: Protoss is now live!


Seeing how drones can have the same kind of explosion sprite as firebats and siege tanks makes me believe that animation is a placeholder. I wish someone from Blizz would step in and clear that up. I'm interested to see the additional F7 effects in action.

Drones had the same explosion sprite as firebats in classic BW as well. Siege tanks had a slightly different explosion, and I think they still arguably have a slightly different explosion in SC:R as well. Going back to the videos, siege tanks explode with a slightly longer animation that has more of a radiating orange tint. Small explosions, like SCVs, vultures, firebats, goliaths, and drones share a smaller explosion that is smokier.

It seems that they're replacing the explosion sprites, but not making a greater variation of explosion sprites between units.


I knew drones exploded when they had gas/minerals but I didn't know they had the same death animation as firebats. I just confirmed that myself. I guess I just don't like the way it looks so it stands out to me a lot
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11286 Posts
July 08 2017 05:49 GMT
#178
What do you guys think about the gifs on the Protoss spotlight post? I can't tell conclusively if its the gif quality that got better or the game gfx or both. Either way, it looks much closer now to how I want remastered to look like.

Thanks for sharing!
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51446 Posts
July 08 2017 06:03 GMT
#179
On July 08 2017 02:11 DropBear wrote:
Does anyone know if Blizzard has indicated which multiplayer maps will ship with remastered? I would assume laddering will be on well known balanced maps like circuit breaker, fighting spirit etc

Would be cool if they had a whole bunch of kespa maps instead of their own lul


Come on, who doesn't want to ladder on maps like Ashrigo, Rivalry and Lost Temple?
Commentator
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
July 08 2017 06:20 GMT
#180
On July 08 2017 15:03 GTR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2017 02:11 DropBear wrote:
Does anyone know if Blizzard has indicated which multiplayer maps will ship with remastered? I would assume laddering will be on well known balanced maps like circuit breaker, fighting spirit etc

Would be cool if they had a whole bunch of kespa maps instead of their own lul


Come on, who doesn't want to ladder on maps like Ashrigo, Rivalry and Lost Temple?

Having played Lost Temple on Bnet a few times now i never realized just how awful of a map it actually was
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