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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On April 19 2007 10:40 lololol wrote:Yamato Gun is also explosive 
Wow, I just checked with Arsenal III and yeah, it is. I never knew that o.O.
Also, apparently Psi Storm has a circular damage radius, even though the animation is larger horizontally than vertically O_O. Either that, or all splash radii are larger horizontally than vertically, which I doubt but I guess it's possible...
Edit: Wow, according to this a spider mine's full-damage splash radius is the same size as a psionic storm. (50 vs 48, actually)
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wraith antiair is deceptive and only hits once i think (unlike scout, goliath etc.)
and yeah spider mines, nukes, and yamato are also explosive
to bill:
i want to say 0.5 damage because first the shields take damage (5 - 3 = 2) one damage to the shield point, so a single damage is then translated to the unit (but it has an armor of 1, also you broke through the shield barrier) but attacks can't do less than 0.5 so that's how much it deals =O
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Damage is calculate as follows:
1. Splash multiplier.
2. Armor amount reduction.
3. Armor type multiplier.
The calculations about shields and hp are separate, if an attack depletes the shields the leftover damage "follows" the 3 steps again, so yes the attack will be reduced by both armor and shield upgrades, but since it deals damage to the shield in the example you gave NO damage will be dealt to the hp.
The minimum damage is 0.5 and the calculations are with accuracy of 1/256.
All AoE spells and attacks have "circular" area of effect - it's more like a square with rounded edges
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On April 19 2007 10:56 lololol wrote:Damage is calculate as follows: 1. Splash multiplier. 2. Armor amount reduction. 3. Armor type multiplier. The calculations about shields and hp are separate, if an attack depletes the shields the leftover damage "follows" the 3 steps again, so yes the attack will be reduced by both armor and shield upgrades. The minimum damage is 0.5 and the calculations are with accuracy of 1/256. All AoE spells and attacks have "circular" area of effect - it's more like a square with rounded edges
Thanks. It's funny: I always knew air armour was extra-useful against corsairs and valks because it would subtract 1 from the splash damage as well, yet I also thought the splash damage modification came after the armour subtraction T_T. Thanks for correcting me. And I tested both it and the shields thingy that I was wondering in StarEdit, and you're right on both accounts  .
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On April 19 2007 10:54 Locked wrote:
wraith antiair is deceptive and only hits once i think (unlike scout, goliath etc.)
and yeah spider mines, nukes, and yamato are also explosive
to bill:
i want to say 0.5 damage because first the shields take damage (5 - 3 = 2) one damage to the shield point, so a single damage is then translated to the unit (but it has an armor of 1, also you broke through the shield barrier) but attacks can't do less than 0.5 so that's how much it deals =O
Thanks. By the way, on the subject of nuke damage, isn't there a special formula to calculate how much damage it deals? I remember someone mentioning it before.
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United States12269 Posts
On April 19 2007 10:54 Locked wrote:
wraith antiair is deceptive and only hits once i think (unlike scout, goliath etc.)
and yeah spider mines, nukes, and yamato are also explosive
to bill:
i want to say 0.5 damage because first the shields take damage (5 - 3 = 2) one damage to the shield point, so a single damage is then translated to the unit (but it has an armor of 1, also you broke through the shield barrier) but attacks can't do less than 0.5 so that's how much it deals =O
Yeah the unit would take minimal damage. I used to think it would greatly increase unit survivability if you had an upgraded shield and upgraded armor, since that's a lot of damage reduced for the one hit where damage is being transferred from shields to armor, but it's really not viable at all. Especially so considering how fast units die =)
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United States12269 Posts
On April 19 2007 11:13 Bill307 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 10:54 Locked wrote:
wraith antiair is deceptive and only hits once i think (unlike scout, goliath etc.)
and yeah spider mines, nukes, and yamato are also explosive
to bill:
i want to say 0.5 damage because first the shields take damage (5 - 3 = 2) one damage to the shield point, so a single damage is then translated to the unit (but it has an armor of 1, also you broke through the shield barrier) but attacks can't do less than 0.5 so that's how much it deals =O Thanks. By the way, on the subject of nuke damage, isn't there a special formula to calculate how much damage it deals? I remember someone mentioning it before.
Point-blank is 500 or 2/3 of the unit's max health, whichever is greater.
First splash ring is 250 or 1/3, whichever is greater.
Second splash ring is 125 or 1/6, whichever is greater.
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If a unit has more than 750 hp it receives damage equal to 2/3 of its maximum hp, else it receives 500 damage. Smaller(damage wise) zones follow the same rule, but deal 50%/25% of the damage they would if the target was in the epicenter.
Also, note about the shield/armor example you gave no damage will be done to the hit points, since the shield takes damage(I edited my previous post too late
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On April 19 2007 10:40 lololol wrote:These are the errors I found: Spider Mines damage is explosive, not normal. Firebats attack is 3 hits by 8 damage, not 2. Wraith air is 1 hit, not 2. Nuke damage is explosive, not normal. Infested Terran damage is explosive, not normal. Yamato Gun is also explosive
http://www.battle.net/scc/GS/damage.shtml
On there it says Infested do Normal.
If it does explosive wouldn't a zealot
look like this:
(500-1)/25%= 124.75 Damage. Thats not enough to kill him.
A zealot has 60/100=160 total. I just tested, It kills a zealot.
On April 19 2007 10:56 lololol wrote:Damage is calculate as follows: 1. Splash multiplier. 2. Armor amount reduction. 3. Armor type multiplier. The calculations about shields and hp are separate, if an attack depletes the shields the leftover damage "follows" the 3 steps again, so yes the attack will be reduced by both armor and shield upgrades, but since it deals damage to the shield in the example you gave NO damage will be dealt to the hp. The minimum damage is 0.5 and the calculations are with accuracy of 1/256. All AoE spells and attacks have "circular" area of effect - it's more like a square with rounded edges
Does that mean it does the full 60 to the shields and then with the leftover being (440-1)/25%= 84.75? Thats not enough to kill him.
I'm confused how does the zealot die if its explosive? Its definitely not Concussive because its kills an Ultra in one hit (ultras have 400 hp) It has to be normal, thats the only way.
PS- In the manual and in C:/Program Files/Starcraft/BroodUnits.doc It says a Lurker is 'Heavy' armor type when it is actually medium.
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Yamato Cannon on a BC with 3 armor does 257.
Yamato to a Devourer with 2 armor kills it. Even a fully upgraded one with 5 armor dies to Yamato.
Yamato to an Archon does 260.
I'm going to make a marine with 1000 HP and 501 HP and see about spider mine,Yamato,Nuke, And infested damage types.
I'll also make a scourge with 1000 HP and test scourge damage type.
Spider Mine:
Marine with 1000 hp takes 62 damage. Leaving him with 938 HP.
50%damage = Explosive
Infested Terran:
Marine with 1000 hp takes 250 damage. Leaving him with 750 HP.
50%damage = Explosive
Yamato Cannon:
Marine with 1000 hp takes 130 damage. Leaving him with 870 HP. 50%damage = Explosive
Scourge with 500 hp takes 110 damage. Leaving it with 391 HP.
100%damage. = Normal
Nuclear Launch:
Marine with 1000 hp (Epicenter) takes 333 damage. Leaving it with 667HP.
33%damage. = ??
Marine with 1000 hp (9th) takes 166 damage. Leaving it with 834HP.
16.5%damage. = ??
Marine with 1000 hp (13th) takes 83 damage. Leaving it with 917HP.
8.25%damage. = ??
Nuclear Launch:
Marine with 501 hp (Epicenter) takes 250 damage. Leaving it with 251HP.
50%damage. = ??
The damage radius of a Nuke is 16 Marines standing juxtapose.
From Epicenter to 8th Marine it does 250 Damage or 50%.
From 9th to 12th Marine it does 125 Damage or 25%.
From 13th to 16th Marine it does 62 Damage or 12.5%
I guess the Official SC website is wrong too. They do Explosive.
The math in my other post about the zealot is wrong. I'm not gonna fix it this is easier to understand anyways.
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On April 19 2007 13:12 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 10:40 lololol wrote:These are the errors I found: Spider Mines damage is explosive, not normal. Firebats attack is 3 hits by 8 damage, not 2. Wraith air is 1 hit, not 2. Nuke damage is explosive, not normal. Infested Terran damage is explosive, not normal. Yamato Gun is also explosive http://www.battle.net/scc/GS/damage.shtmlOn there it says Infested do Normal. If it does explosive wouldn't a zealot look like this: (500-1)/25%= 124.75 Damage. Thats not enough to kill him. A zealot has 60/100=160 total. I just tested, It kills a zealot. Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 10:56 lololol wrote:Damage is calculate as follows: 1. Splash multiplier. 2. Armor amount reduction. 3. Armor type multiplier. The calculations about shields and hp are separate, if an attack depletes the shields the leftover damage "follows" the 3 steps again, so yes the attack will be reduced by both armor and shield upgrades, but since it deals damage to the shield in the example you gave NO damage will be dealt to the hp. The minimum damage is 0.5 and the calculations are with accuracy of 1/256. All AoE spells and attacks have "circular" area of effect - it's more like a square with rounded edges Does that mean it does the full 60 to the shields and then with the leftover being (440-1)/25%= 84.75? Thats not enough to kill him. I'm confused how does the zealot die if its explosive? Its definitely not Concussive because its kills an Ultra in one hit (ultras have 400 hp) It has to be normal, thats the only way. PS- In the manual and in C:/Program Files/Starcraft/BroodUnits.doc It says a Lurker is 'Heavy' armor type when it is actually medium.
It doesnt look like you are including shields taking full dmg from the explosion in that equation
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On April 19 2007 11:13 Bill307 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 10:54 Locked wrote:
wraith antiair is deceptive and only hits once i think (unlike scout, goliath etc.)
and yeah spider mines, nukes, and yamato are also explosive
to bill:
i want to say 0.5 damage because first the shields take damage (5 - 3 = 2) one damage to the shield point, so a single damage is then translated to the unit (but it has an armor of 1, also you broke through the shield barrier) but attacks can't do less than 0.5 so that's how much it deals =O Thanks. By the way, on the subject of nuke damage, isn't there a special formula to calculate how much damage it deals? I remember someone mentioning it before.
I know the formula has been posted before. I think its the greater of 400dmg or 75% hp
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United States1655 Posts
Is there a difference between Ground armor and Air armor?
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On April 19 2007 14:28 SigrUn wrote:
Is there a difference between Ground armor and Air armor?
No, they recieve damage the same way. Its just that when your enemy has Corsairs attacking your Mutas with +2 armor then you morph them to devourers, all the sudden the cocoon has 0 armor (if you haven't upgraded ground armor) because it acts like a ground unit. And that really sucks ass.
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On April 19 2007 13:12 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 10:40 lololol wrote:These are the errors I found: Spider Mines damage is explosive, not normal. Firebats attack is 3 hits by 8 damage, not 2. Wraith air is 1 hit, not 2. Nuke damage is explosive, not normal. Infested Terran damage is explosive, not normal. Yamato Gun is also explosive http://www.battle.net/scc/GS/damage.shtmlOn there it says Infested do Normal. If it does explosive wouldn't a zealot look like this: (500-1)/25%= 124.75 Damage. Thats not enough to kill him. A zealot has 60/100=160 total. I just tested, It kills a zealot. Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 10:56 lololol wrote:Damage is calculate as follows: 1. Splash multiplier. 2. Armor amount reduction. 3. Armor type multiplier. The calculations about shields and hp are separate, if an attack depletes the shields the leftover damage "follows" the 3 steps again, so yes the attack will be reduced by both armor and shield upgrades, but since it deals damage to the shield in the example you gave NO damage will be dealt to the hp. The minimum damage is 0.5 and the calculations are with accuracy of 1/256. All AoE spells and attacks have "circular" area of effect - it's more like a square with rounded edges Does that mean it does the full 60 to the shields and then with the leftover being (440-1)/25%= 84.75? Thats not enough to kill him. I'm confused how does the zealot die if its explosive? Its definitely not Concussive because its kills an Ultra in one hit (ultras have 400 hp) It has to be normal, thats the only way. PS- In the manual and in C:/Program Files/Starcraft/BroodUnits.doc It says a Lurker is 'Heavy' armor type when it is actually medium.
You are supposedly dividing by 25%, which is = multiplying by 4 instead of multiplying by 50%, since Explosive does 50% to small units.
You can be sure what I posted is correct, I have tested lots of things numerous times and about unit size/attack type could just download DatEdit and check them yourself
The cocoon bug is quite simple to fix, but as it was with the hatchery bug - Blizz simply may not be aware of it
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On April 19 2007 14:36 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 13:12 CharlieMurphy wrote:On April 19 2007 10:40 lololol wrote:These are the errors I found: Spider Mines damage is explosive, not normal. Firebats attack is 3 hits by 8 damage, not 2. Wraith air is 1 hit, not 2. Nuke damage is explosive, not normal. Infested Terran damage is explosive, not normal. Yamato Gun is also explosive http://www.battle.net/scc/GS/damage.shtmlOn there it says Infested do Normal. If it does explosive wouldn't a zealot look like this: (500-1)/25%= 124.75 Damage. Thats not enough to kill him. A zealot has 60/100=160 total. I just tested, It kills a zealot. On April 19 2007 10:56 lololol wrote:Damage is calculate as follows: 1. Splash multiplier. 2. Armor amount reduction. 3. Armor type multiplier. The calculations about shields and hp are separate, if an attack depletes the shields the leftover damage "follows" the 3 steps again, so yes the attack will be reduced by both armor and shield upgrades, but since it deals damage to the shield in the example you gave NO damage will be dealt to the hp. The minimum damage is 0.5 and the calculations are with accuracy of 1/256. All AoE spells and attacks have "circular" area of effect - it's more like a square with rounded edges Does that mean it does the full 60 to the shields and then with the leftover being (440-1)/25%= 84.75? Thats not enough to kill him. I'm confused how does the zealot die if its explosive? Its definitely not Concussive because its kills an Ultra in one hit (ultras have 400 hp) It has to be normal, thats the only way. PS- In the manual and in C:/Program Files/Starcraft/BroodUnits.doc It says a Lurker is 'Heavy' armor type when it is actually medium. You are supposedly dividing by 25%, which is = multiplying by 4 instead of multiplying by 50%, since Explosive does 50% to small units. You can be sure what I posted is correct, I have tested lots of things numerous times and about unit size/attack type could just download DatEdit and check them yourself
I'm doing the math correctly I'm just writing it down wrong. I think of 25% as equal to 1/4 and if you divide 100 into fourths its 25.
Probably why I always hated math.
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25% is equal to 1/4
Also, (440-1)/25%= 84.75 -> (440-1)*25%=109.75, which is enough to kill him, even if explosive did 25% to small units
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United States12269 Posts
Yeah Explosive vs Small is 50%, not 25%. That screwed up your entire calculation.
Nukes do Explosive damage.
Yamato Gun also does Explosive. By the way it's spelled Yamato, after the Japanese superbattleship, not Yamoto.
You can't really count on the BroodUnits.doc or the manual because they were never updated. The manual is printed before the game even goes gold and the BroodUnits.doc was created around the same time. The SCC is a far more reliable source of information for most things (though it does have some errors as lololol has mentioned).
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United States12269 Posts
On April 19 2007 14:40 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 14:36 lololol wrote:On April 19 2007 13:12 CharlieMurphy wrote:On April 19 2007 10:40 lololol wrote:These are the errors I found: Spider Mines damage is explosive, not normal. Firebats attack is 3 hits by 8 damage, not 2. Wraith air is 1 hit, not 2. Nuke damage is explosive, not normal. Infested Terran damage is explosive, not normal. Yamato Gun is also explosive http://www.battle.net/scc/GS/damage.shtmlOn there it says Infested do Normal. If it does explosive wouldn't a zealot look like this: (500-1)/25%= 124.75 Damage. Thats not enough to kill him. A zealot has 60/100=160 total. I just tested, It kills a zealot. On April 19 2007 10:56 lololol wrote:Damage is calculate as follows: 1. Splash multiplier. 2. Armor amount reduction. 3. Armor type multiplier. The calculations about shields and hp are separate, if an attack depletes the shields the leftover damage "follows" the 3 steps again, so yes the attack will be reduced by both armor and shield upgrades, but since it deals damage to the shield in the example you gave NO damage will be dealt to the hp. The minimum damage is 0.5 and the calculations are with accuracy of 1/256. All AoE spells and attacks have "circular" area of effect - it's more like a square with rounded edges Does that mean it does the full 60 to the shields and then with the leftover being (440-1)/25%= 84.75? Thats not enough to kill him. I'm confused how does the zealot die if its explosive? Its definitely not Concussive because its kills an Ultra in one hit (ultras have 400 hp) It has to be normal, thats the only way. PS- In the manual and in C:/Program Files/Starcraft/BroodUnits.doc It says a Lurker is 'Heavy' armor type when it is actually medium. You are supposedly dividing by 25%, which is = multiplying by 4 instead of multiplying by 50%, since Explosive does 50% to small units. You can be sure what I posted is correct, I have tested lots of things numerous times and about unit size/attack type could just download DatEdit and check them yourself I'm doing the math correctly I'm just writing it down wrong. I think of 25% as equal to 1/4 and if you divide 100 into fourths its 25. Probably why I always hated math.
He's not wrong. He said "you're dividing by 25% which = multiplying by 4". If 25% = 0.25 and you divide 1/0.25 that = 4. Multiplying by 25%, or 1*0.25 = 1/4 =)
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EPT
