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On February 21 2018 02:54 Magic Powers wrote:
I never noticed an input fix anywhere between 2000 and 2010. I don't think what Day9 is saying is correct, I'd like confirmation for that.
It was never an official fix, it was a "click buffer" that was part of the various launchers that people used to connect to third party servers. I don't think it was ever KeSPA or tournament-legal.
I am also pretty sure that it was off by default in at least ICCup/Chaos launcher, meaning that unless you directly went and changed it, you were still playing with the same constraint.
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I do recall pros complaining a lot about input canceling during 1.18, but not much recently.
It was serious issue during 1.18
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On February 20 2018 16:52 Sero wrote:
It makes a huge difference between players. Most people miss a few buildings like barracks when they try to quickly macro with SK terran, and can't quickly move their entire army if it's more than a few control groups. Good players can, and removing that would reduce the skill involved. Why not just add MBS too? You want to macro like Flash or whatever progamer without actually learning the game, right?
This made me actually chuckle. What an absurd false equivalency.
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Russian Federation92 Posts
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France1920 Posts
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Russian Federation484 Posts
That will fix some of the problem, with 1a2a3a4a etc but not all of it.
at 12th second of the clip I do 1sd2sd3sd4sd5sd
If you watch frame by frame, you will see that there was a frame with "1" pressed, then some frames with nothing pressed, then there were some frames with only "S" pressed, then some frames with nothing pressed, then some frames with only "D" pressed.
At 3SD something even peculiar happens, between "S" and "D" I don't see a frame where nothing is pressed, and you could kinda say it's my fault, but there is no frame when 2 keys are pressed at once, I was just fast.
This sequence of actions, did not result in 1 and 3 Hatchery building drones.
That's not a mouse issue, mouse buttons were not pressed in that clip.
That's not my keyboard issue, since you see on the screen what my computer got from my keyboard, the buttons were pressed.
That's a Starcraft issue.
It makes SC:R unplayable for me.
As soon as I improved to 150+ APM in SC:R I could not take it anymore. Playing while game does not register what I pressed was not fun to say the least.
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On October 19 2018 21:33 chuDr3t4 wrote:That will fix some of the problem, with 1a2a3a4a etc but not all of it. https://clips.twitch.tv/SullenHelpfulPieTooSpicy at 12th second of the clip I do 1sd2sd3sd4sd5sd If you watch frame by frame, you will see that there was a frame with "1" pressed, then some frames with nothing pressed, then there were some frames with only "S" pressed, then some frames with nothing pressed, then some frames with only "D" pressed. At 3SD something even peculiar happens, between "S" and "D" I don't see a frame where nothing is pressed, and you could kinda say it's my fault, but there is no frame when 2 keys are pressed at once, I was just fast. This sequence of actions, did not result in 1 and 3 Hatchery building drones. That's not a mouse issue, mouse buttons were not pressed in that clip.
That's not my keyboard issue, since you see on the screen what my computer got from my keyboard, the buttons were pressed.
That's a Starcraft issue.
It makes SC:R unplayable for me.As soon as I improved to 150+ APM in SC:R I could not take it anymore. Playing while game does not register what I pressed was not fun to say the least.
this is the real problem.
from my understanding (how i think it is working), when selecting units, it takes a certain amount of time (based on TR/lag) for the interface/commands to update.
with low TR (+ lag), macro as zerg takes a long time, just waiting out the selection delay... or repeating everything 2-3times
so im not sure if they can solve that, because it would affect all units, but as long as it doesnt break any current tech (e.g.:moving larva left with overlord) i would be really happy if they solved that.
PS: i think this is a zerg only problem because larva = units, if not, feel free to correct me.
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On October 19 2018 22:07 Bakuryu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2018 21:33 chuDr3t4 wrote:That will fix some of the problem, with 1a2a3a4a etc but not all of it. https://clips.twitch.tv/SullenHelpfulPieTooSpicy at 12th second of the clip I do 1sd2sd3sd4sd5sd If you watch frame by frame, you will see that there was a frame with "1" pressed, then some frames with nothing pressed, then there were some frames with only "S" pressed, then some frames with nothing pressed, then some frames with only "D" pressed. At 3SD something even peculiar happens, between "S" and "D" I don't see a frame where nothing is pressed, and you could kinda say it's my fault, but there is no frame when 2 keys are pressed at once, I was just fast. This sequence of actions, did not result in 1 and 3 Hatchery building drones. That's not a mouse issue, mouse buttons were not pressed in that clip.
That's not my keyboard issue, since you see on the screen what my computer got from my keyboard, the buttons were pressed.
That's a Starcraft issue.
It makes SC:R unplayable for me.As soon as I improved to 150+ APM in SC:R I could not take it anymore. Playing while game does not register what I pressed was not fun to say the least. this is the real problem. from my understanding (how i think it is working), when selecting units, it takes a certain amount of time (based on TR/lag) for the interface/commands to update. with low TR (+ lag), macro as zerg takes a long time, just waiting out the selection delay... or repeating everything 2-3times so im not sure if they can solve that, because it would affect all units, but as long as it doesnt break any current tech (e.g.:moving larva left with overlord) i would be really happy if they solved that. PS: i think this is a zerg only problem because larva = units, if not, feel free to correct me.
I think it's the same regardless of turn rate since both inputs are equally delayed. I think the delay applies to buildings as well, I've heard terrans complain about the minimum manual input delay, but since it takes more actions to create a unit as zerg it's more noticeable I think.
Either way, I really hope more attention is brought to this, it's been driving me crazy for years and I can't seem to get used to the delay. I don't think any harm would be done by fixing it.
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Germany1305 Posts
Sorry for reviving this, but when remastered came out I was so hyped coming back to SC after years - only to stop after a hand full of games because I lost so many games because the game did not register some important inputs. When I found out this is a bug I felt relieved because it's not just me and hopeful that this would be fixed soon. I put SC aside and then life happened for a while. Two days ago I came back to the game and found out that bug is still here and, since it's probably super easy to fix, it might stay here forever. Imagine the game that defined your youth and big chunks of your life being brought back but in a way that makes it impossible to play for you (and a bunch of others). FML..
EDIT: I found out even Day9 supported that this bug should be fixed as it was fixed ages ago in multiple launchers, so lot's of pro's might have played without this bug their whole career. How can you even argue with Day9?
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On November 19 2018 18:06 Chosi wrote:
Sorry for reviving this, but when remastered came out I was so hyped coming back to SC after years - only to stop after a hand full of games because I lost so many games because the game did not register some important inputs. When I found out this is a bug I felt relieved because it's not just me and hopeful that this would be fixed soon. I put SC aside and then life happened for a while. Two days ago I came back to the game and found out that bug is still here and, since it's probably super easy to fix, it might stay here forever. Imagine the game that defined your youth and big chunks of your life being brought back but in a way that makes it impossible to play for you (and a bunch of others). FML..
EDIT: I found out even Day9 supported that this bug should be fixed as it was fixed ages ago in multiple launchers, so lot's of pro's might have played without this bug their whole career. How can you even argue with Day9?
I'd hardly call it a bug. It's just how it was designed... in '98
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On November 19 2018 23:38 Demurity wrote:
I'd hardly call it a bug. It's just how it was designed... in '98
1. It's annoying as hell and cost you games.
2. It could be fixed by launchers back in 1.16.1 days and people did not complain (I believe).
3. Clearly more votes to fix this. Could be just foreigners. I would like to see what Koreans think about it.
4. The most important point - Day9 approves the fix.
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what lol, people are gonna argue from authority based on the fact that Day[9] thinks a certain change is good?
at least have your own argument to back up your points
also quadrox, not to pick on you specifically, but your point #1 is true of pretty much everything that can go wrong in bw
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On November 20 2018 02:10 badpenny wrote:
what lol, people are gonna argue from authority based on the fact that Day[9] thinks a certain change is good?
at least have your own argument to back up your points
also quadrox, not to pick on you specifically, but your point #1 is true of pretty much everything that can go wrong in bw
You shouldn't question Day[9]'s authority here. Yes #1 is pretty much everything in the game, can ignore that. Tbh I would very much like to see some data on what Korean progamers think about that fix.
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Day9 doesn't even play the game anymore. His opinion is worthless, as he will not be affected by any changes
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On November 20 2018 05:56 Hexos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2018 05:11 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote:
Day9 doesn't even play the game anymore. His opinion is worthless, as he will not be affected by any changes Jesus Christ, every football coach is useless as shit since they dont participate in actually playing the game. Even so you dont know how often day9 plays the game
Is Day9 a coach now? Terrible analogy bud
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personally, i just meant that Day[9] is only one people out of many who have both an opinion on this and some standing within the bw community, so saying his opinion is automatically right is not valid or reasonable. he's not the pope of brood war
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Honestly I think it's just a QoL feature that will help out lowbies a bit more. Most higher-end pro's have gotten over the issue and still win games. It's not really something that should win or loss games for you unless you're actively trying to ignore it. Once you get in the rhythm it's avoidable.
However, I think it helps out lowbies to have it removed and makes the game a bit more accessible without costing too much "Brood War is perfect how it is".
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I looked closely at the clip of chuDr3t4 and recognized the following things:
1) Hatchery HK have essentially no delay.
2) Initiating select Larva command has basically no delay (The blue highlight of the larva button (bottom right) reacts within 1 frame)
3) From the (blue) signal that S has been pressed to the interface actually changing to display the larva there is a non-constant delay
For Hatch 2: 1 Frame: press S --> Blue Highlight | 2 Frames: Blue Highlight --> Show Larva
For Hatch 3: 1 Frame: press S --> Blue Highlight | 4 Frames: Blue Highlight --> Show Larva
For Hatch 5: 1 Frame: press S --> Blue Highlight | 1 Frame: Blue Highlight --> Show Larva
4) Build Drone behaves like select larva, where the indication of the command happens reliably fast, while the execution of the command varies and can be slow.
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EPT
