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On April 07 2016 16:10 kogeT wrote:It's because muta attack is some kind of living being, and when you hit a ground unit it gets lost in the smoke, but attacking an air unit provides enough vision from the skies and makes muta attack see it's next target even when it's under swarm. End of story. Btw. does that also work for double-covered units like borrowed lurker under swarm?  Btw2. you can kill units under swarm in many ways (excl melee attack), out of witch most known are: - firebat, nuke, splash from tank (for example when attacking your own unit), mines, irradiate, broodling, lurker, storm, reaver scrab, mind control.. did I miss anything? (except muta splash)
Archons. I'm not 100% but I think Yamato works too.
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Yeah archon splash hits, but swarm nullifies a huge chunk of their damage. Yamato is a spell, so it will hit under swarm.
edit: i am really bad at reading
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On April 07 2016 09:33 hellokitty[hk] wrote:
No, actually even if the initial muta shot misses, the bounces will hit and do damage.
The easiest way to test this is to hit a worker that dodges into a gas extractor.
That's a different mechanic. It's not a miss, just a shot that does not deal damage because the target unit is temporarily removed.
On April 07 2016 10:49 CrownRoyal wrote:
thought this was common knowledge
splash damage always did damage under swarm, u can try it with reavers too. I'm fairly sure the initial hit will miss but the aoe will hit.
-note i havent played broodwar in 6 years.
This is also misconception, as Glaive Wurm bounces are technically not splash damage.
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lol this game will never be fully figured out. What's next, ultras can fly?
Best game ever.
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so knew zero about this? does this mean it was also korean progamer knowledge?
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Very cool, props on your powers of observation (and/or ZerO's).
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TLADT24920 Posts
It's not surprising if you think about it. The mutalisks can't hit anything on the ground affected by swarms thus their bounce is also ineffective because they can't get the first hit. However, units in the air aren't affected by swarm (last I checked, could be wrong lol) thus since the first hit connects, the bounce will count even if a unit is under the swarm.
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this intrigues me that after so long u can still find stuff like this out in bw
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Know what this tech needs?
A good Use Map Settings map.
Leaderboards and shit.
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This isn't new, any glaive wurm hit that deals damage outside the defiler's smoke will make the chain attack deal damage to units inside the dark swarm.
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On April 08 2016 06:38 BigFan wrote:
However, units in the air aren't affected by swarm (last I checked, could be wrong lol) thus since the first hit connects, the bounce will count even if a unit is under the swarm.
I'm pretty sure Dark Swarm affects air units just the same, since Hydra + Defiler is a good counter to Carriers
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On April 08 2016 13:17 GoShox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 06:38 BigFan wrote:
However, units in the air aren't affected by swarm (last I checked, could be wrong lol) thus since the first hit connects, the bounce will count even if a unit is under the swarm. I'm pretty sure Dark Swarm affects air units just the same, since Hydra + Defiler is a good counter to Carriers
I think he meant that Dark Swarm doesn't protect flying units.
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On April 08 2016 13:28 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 13:17 GoShox wrote:On April 08 2016 06:38 BigFan wrote:
However, units in the air aren't affected by swarm (last I checked, could be wrong lol) thus since the first hit connects, the bounce will count even if a unit is under the swarm. I'm pretty sure Dark Swarm affects air units just the same, since Hydra + Defiler is a good counter to Carriers I think he meant that Dark Swarm doesn't protect flying units.
Oops, good call
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Had no idea, but Qeet's guess was good and what I was thinking too. So you can hit marines on the edge of swarm and get a little damage on the ones in swarm, I guess. Could come up in a rare circumstance.
Calling the muta's attack a kind of splash damage sounds really wrong. A bouncing attack is not the same as splash  The reasons this works under swarm and splash works under swarm are also totally different.
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Brood war is always full of surprises every year i'll find at least one new quirk, great find.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On April 08 2016 13:35 GoShox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 13:28 Jealous wrote:On April 08 2016 13:17 GoShox wrote:On April 08 2016 06:38 BigFan wrote:
However, units in the air aren't affected by swarm (last I checked, could be wrong lol) thus since the first hit connects, the bounce will count even if a unit is under the swarm. I'm pretty sure Dark Swarm affects air units just the same, since Hydra + Defiler is a good counter to Carriers I think he meant that Dark Swarm doesn't protect flying units. Oops, good call
yep, jealous is correct. I meant that if the first muta hit connects with say, another air unit (since they aren't protected by swarm), the bounce should still connect to units in the swarm and cause damage.
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Really cool! Did not know that!
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could this because the swarm is only effective to auto attacks and the bounce is registered as an ability?
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Mutas are like the most interesting unit in the game. Whole muta micro concept is like playing an alternative game in itself. Utilizing Hold, Attack, Patrol, and Move (as M on keyboard) is like playing some kind of fighting game and making combos. To that you have to add the constant movement and whole range concept (you should execute different commands based on specific position/range/fighting different units), and to complicate even more you have those small tricks like attacking your own units/building for bounce or fighting units under swarm.
Geez I love brood war.
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Fantastic! This will be useful the next time my mnm+ tank army gets swarmed.... oh wait
On April 08 2016 06:38 BigFan wrote:
It's not surprising if you think about it. The mutalisks can't hit anything on the ground affected by swarms thus their bounce is also ineffective because they can't get the first hit. However, units in the air aren't affected by swarm (last I checked, could be wrong lol) thus since the first hit connects, the bounce will count even if a unit is under the swarm.
Hindsight bias trumps trumps BF once again Your reasoning is wrong. There's no reason for the bounce to affect the unit under swarm because in one situation but not the other.
It's basically a bug in the programming of dark swarm because it only blocks the first hit and not the following bounces.
ie if first hit goes through, everything goes through.
if first hit get's blocked, everything gets blocked,
which shouldn't be the case
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EPT
