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[B]On March 23 2016 13:32 Cascade wrote:
Yes, with irradiate on a carrier that is pulled back, all the interceptors will be just outside the carrier right? That thing that allows you to launch all of them again quickly. Does that mean that they'll be taking damage from the irradiate unless the carrier comes to a complete stop to let them catch up?
I assume you meant EMP (pulse damage), not irradiate (sustain damage, on bio units) , unless trolling  .
Flash played like, "I spent 500/500+ on armor upgrades already, let the goliaths deal with the carriers, EMP not worths time/effort etc."
-in that game where he not made any effort really to counteract carriers (werent even stacked), or the 8-10 psi storms he let his anti-air stuff sustain. So there wasn't really a spearhead attack against the carriers ( I assume EMP helps there, bc. the spearhead won't melt like hot butter ). IDK if the int's air damage was upgraded or not. Maybe it played out about upgrades in his mind , -not in his favor afterall.
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On March 23 2016 03:38 ne4aJIb wrote:
where is Fantasy?
He streamed for a while, got good viewers too. It was never the highest watched stream though, maxed out at #2.
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did flash already play bisu?
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On March 23 2016 17:50 bypLy wrote:
did flash already play bisu?
I believe so, for one game. I don't have a link though.
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"Officialy" they only played once, on CB when Flash won relatively easy. (failed recall from bisu etc.)
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Can someone please post all the results of his matches so far? I saw some games and Flash lost a good portion of them.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On March 23 2016 17:50 Antisocialmunky wrote:He streamed for a while, got good viewers too. It was never the highest watched stream though, maxed out at #2.
Wait wait wait.
Where the hell are the vods and why didn't I know about this.
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51541 Posts
pretty sure he's talking about sc2.
as far as i'm aware he hasn't done any bw broadcasts yet.
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Seems like he's winning most of his TvZs but losing a good portion of TvPs mostly due to being greedy.
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I think he's losing a good portion of TvPs mostly due to protoss.
Seriously some of games he loses vs P are just madness, people try all possible cheeses against him.
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On March 24 2016 20:02 kogeT wrote:
I think he's losing a good portion of TvPs mostly due to protoss.
Seriously some of games he loses vs P are just madness, people try all possible cheeses against him.
Yeah and he plays the same strategy every single game.
Either FE -> 1 tank vultures -> exp 200/200
or fake double -> mines -> double exp 200/200
This is a strat to get skill, not win games in my oppinion.
No point to start playing 4 fact pushes and what-not if you don't feel that your mechanics are back yet.
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I'm willing to pay some $ for someone to translate Flash's streams to english. Specially when he analyses old games 
sometimes he watches 3-4 games in a row and talks alot, I really want to know what he's talking about. Does he give strategic advice on his stream etc?
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On March 25 2016 00:21 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2016 20:02 kogeT wrote:
I think he's losing a good portion of TvPs mostly due to protoss.
Seriously some of games he loses vs P are just madness, people try all possible cheeses against him. Yeah and he plays the same strategy every single game. Either FE -> 1 tank vultures -> exp 200/200 or fake double -> mines -> double exp 200/200 This is a strat to get skill, not win games in my oppinion. No point to start playing 4 fact pushes and what-not if you don't feel that your mechanics are back yet.
I don't fully agree. Firstly, about build orders (this is only related to TvP, his TvZ and TvT is obviously different story and set of build orders)
Rax fe:
- His regular rax 15CC is adjusted to rax, 15 depot, 17-18 CC when he gets scouted early. (also refinery upfront to deny gas steal)
- He also plays 6-7 scv push when seeing nexus 1st from P
- He also plays differently on CB (quick 4 CC) vs FS (3 CC) for obvious map difference reasons.
- On maps like Benzene (he played 1 game there vs Best) and also seen that one more time on another standard map (FS or CB) Flash can play rax FE into starport after factory (1 tank 2 vulture drop) into 3 fact/armory and very aggresive and tactical mid game.
- He makes 2-4 tanks when facing 2 gate goon.
- He uses his vultures aggressively vs quick 3rd nexus and defensively when facing bulldog or other aggressive opening.
11/11 FD, he plays a variety of BOs and timings:
- Standard is 6marine/tank FD + quick 3rd to follow that up (3rd after 2nd fact)
- 6-7 scv push + vulture when seeing nexus 1st
- On cross positions Flash often plays very quick 3rd expand (before 2nd fact) and would rely on mines + turret ring.
- When playing standard FD, not cross position and with 3rd on his side (what I mean e.g 1 vs 5 or 5 vs 7 on FS), if scouted not very quick robo (robo before nexus) and when still having mines outside of protoss base, Flash would go for 3 tank timing to contain his opponent (this is hitting just when observer is out to clear front mines). From here he would either go 5 fact (contain succesful) or transition into 4 fact 3rd exp
Thirdly, he obviously adjusts a lot in mid/late game (plenty of timings and different setup vs cariers/arbiter/quick 2 base arbiter/mass gateway stomp etc.). Flash would often go for a strong +1 midgame push (5-9 tanks) when scouting carrier or being in a good position on a map (e.g having mines in key locations that haven't been cleaned up) or by just scouting equal amount of gateways or late gateways (vs f.ex. protoss that goes quick 3 base + robo + arbiter tech + upgrade)
tl;dr: Flash is quite unpredictable when it comes to first 5-6 minutes (he'll adjust to P build, and we have to remember that most of P pros also play similar builds), and he has a nice set of mid game timings and additional adjustments. To be honest what other builds are there other than Rax fe and 11/11 FD? Everything else is not optimal (or allinish). Builds like 10/10, 12/12 (for siege expand, it's easily abused by quick 3rd from protoss), 8 rax, M&M all-ins are all playable but not really reliable on pro level. Interesting enough I haven't seen him play CC 1st in TvP.
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Yeah I agree with you, just didn't want to type so long;) He makes quite suttle adjustments.
However, he don't do much of timing pushes in terms of 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 fact pushes, or dropship plays, or bio, or 2 fact from main... You'll never see him get gas early in expansion and hit the 4 fact timing push for example. I think he's playing the very standard way to gain skill, the standard way is however adjustable ofc.
The main thing I wanted to clarify is that it's quite obvious that he's not just trying to rank up, but to get his basic mechanics back. If you don't cheese or get way too greedy, flash will most likely play straight up right now.
Way back when he was Bonjwa, he was alot more unpredictable, because his core skill was already there.
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On March 25 2016 05:08 StylishVODs wrote:
Yeah I agree with you, just didn't want to type so long;) He makes quite suttle adjustments.
However, he don't do much of timing pushes in terms of 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 fact pushes, or dropship plays, or bio, or 2 fact from main... You'll never see him get gas early in expansion and hit the 4 fact timing push for example. I think he's playing the very standard way to gain skill, the standard way is however adjustable ofc.
The main thing I wanted to clarify is that it's quite obvious that he's not just trying to rank up, but to get his basic mechanics back. If you don't cheese or get way too greedy, flash will most likely play straight up right now.
Way back when he was Bonjwa, he was alot more unpredictable, because his core skill was already there.
Cheese/Timing/Allins are much less prevalent among streamers than they were in the kespa days though, that's not just a Flash thing. Allin plays rely on the surprise factor, which is a problem when you're streaming every game. You either do an allin you haven't practiced in a while, or play std. There's no way to practice the same allin for hours like they could in the past.
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On March 25 2016 05:08 StylishVODs wrote:
Yeah I agree with you, just didn't want to type so long;) He makes quite suttle adjustments.
However, he don't do much of timing pushes in terms of 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 fact pushes, or dropship plays, or bio, or 2 fact from main... You'll never see him get gas early in expansion and hit the 4 fact timing push for example. I think he's playing the very standard way to gain skill, the standard way is however adjustable ofc.
The main thing I wanted to clarify is that it's quite obvious that he's not just trying to rank up, but to get his basic mechanics back. If you don't cheese or get way too greedy, flash will most likely play straight up right now.
Way back when he was Bonjwa, he was alot more unpredictable, because his core skill was already there.
1. He was never "bonjwa," he is "God," but that's besides the point
2. You can't compare Fish ladder and streamed games to OSL/MSL/SPL games. Back then we were only exposed to 1-2 games per week on average from him, games that mattered a lot. He knew other players would have spent a week preparing for the build he was going to do, and he similarly had to prepare builds for what they would do against him, or what they would do against him under the assumption that he will play the way he always does, etc. Basically, prepared and pre-practiced matches. His ladder play has no pertinence to his professional game dossier, barring the similarity that he has a propensity for standard play. It is a different environment, a different opponent, a different timeframe. Playing conservative and reactionary is Flash's best chance of winning in an impromptu set. If you think he is somehow holding back because he wants to get better as opposed to win more, I would have to disagree with you on this basis. Flash is playing exactly as Flash wants to play to win games imo.
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Also, I don't see a reason of playing cheeses in ladder. It's a waste of time as preparing an all-in timing is way easier than executing what he usually does. Playing in tournaments i'm sure he'll utilize some of Great book of Terran all-ins strats.
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I don't think i disagree with any of your statements really except that you can't cheese on stream. Movie does it all the time, and when you have the core skill down, it doesn't take much to remember a build.
If you want to get good, you do what flash is doing right now. Aiming for lategame, standard build, small deviations due to scouting information, no all-ins.
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EPT
