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Yeah I was just trying to clear the misconception that ALL bgh players are newbs who cant micro or macro. You're right that you'll find a lot of shitty BGH players, but you'll find a lot of shitty low players as well. And while an average low gamer will have a good chance at beating an average BGH player on BGH, the latter wont have as good a chance of winning on a low map.
You did overlook one point though: kural, a top BGH player beat fayth, a top low player, on Luna, a low map.
I didnt quite get the last part of your post, about the huge learning curve. Are you saying the learning curve is greater on BGH? If so, I disagree. Low maps have a LOT more strategy involved, and that, amongst other factors, means they have a longer learning curve.
And I disagree with the statement "you are pretty noob or crazy ass gosu. You usually dont find very much in between". You'll find BGH players of all skill levels (relative to BGH players), because a lot of players tend to stop improving after they hit a certain point. I mean, if only practice meant you would always continue to get better at a reasonable rate, we'd all be nada's and boxer's right now.
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You have your points. And your right about the skill levels but it is relative to bgh players. What i ment by the lerning curve was that it is incredibly steep. Its like either taking the red pill or the blue pill. Most BGH players take the blue pill and consequently get made fun of on forums like ours. But those very few players that take the red pill get insain at BGH to the point where the skill can spill over into low money. I dont know why but i'm thinking up with like 80 metaphors for this. I'l spare you though.
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Lol 
I see your point, and maybe I would've thought that too, but since I've played quite a bit of BGH, I can assure you that there are a lot of people at various intermediary levels of skill between the best and the worst.
There are BGH players who play solely to relax with absolutely no desire to get better, and they'll never analyse reps, or try to learn builds or the techniques of micro etc. But most players who frequent BGH channels like motel/marlboro/op bghers etc, arent like that. Most of them want to improve, but how far they go is limited by their talent and by the amount of time they spend. The builds on BGH are fairly simple and exceedingly small in number (as opposed to the low community where new maps come out every few months, and dozens of builds are tried or theorycrafted before the viable one's are figured out. Even then, the viable builds on any one map outnumber the viable builds on BGH, and there is always room for "trickery"). So with only one map (BGH) that only has a few workable builds, learning them isn't hard, and most players are familiar with them.
Micro, macro, coordination and multi tasking are different though, and come with practice, just like with low maps. And due to varying amounts of talent and varying amounts of time spent playing, you'll find players at different levels of skill, smoothly moving from the very poor to the very good.
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thx for the post physician but i dont think i can watch another after watching the vult one :O...
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Despite like all the replays saying 1.14 I only got like one of them to work on 1.14. All the rest fucked up within the first couple minutes.
Also, enlighten me. What's considered a good BGH build? I'm curious what it entails and how it differs from regular map builds.
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On January 07 2007 19:18 EscPlan9 wrote:
Despite like all the replays saying 1.14 I only got like one of them to work on 1.14. All the rest fucked up within the first couple minutes.
Also, enlighten me. What's considered a good BGH build? I'm curious what it entails and how it differs from regular map builds.
Use penguin/bwlauncher when viewing them.
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On January 07 2007 16:56 _PulSe_ wrote:
I just say we get some good players in TL-west and play BGH. That way we can submit our reps to this site and show them what pimp is supposed to be. I say TL tries to take all their pimpest plays.
I guess Gandalf already replied to this but I'll just hammer it in again...Daze and Testie lost 1-3 to BGH representatives, and Testie + Idra only won with a score of 4-3 in a BO7. I already said that. I see that Gandalf has supported me as well. Fayth lost something like 1-7 to them as well in 1:1, on BGH AND Luna.
Idra and Testie were not "just venturing into their domain." Idra has played BGH many times (I've played him many times before he was "famous"), and I know Testie will even agree that he has played BGH plenty of times himself.
As has been stated before, the top BGH players are much, MUCH better than these replays show. These replays are an incredibly poor showing of high level BGH play because the site is not frequented by that many people and there were not many replay submissions. I guarantee that the average TL.netter will not beat the top BGH players. Many of them can play low money just as well; I believe Koolam, one of them, achieved A- or something like that on PGT playing one season with a good record and didn't continue playing past that point.
On January 07 2007 18:47 _PulSe_ wrote:
You have your points. And your right about the skill levels but it is relative to bgh players. What i ment by the lerning curve was that it is incredibly steep. Its like either taking the red pill or the blue pill. Most BGH players take the blue pill and consequently get made fun of on forums like ours. But those very few players that take the red pill get insain at BGH to the point where the skill can spill over into low money. I dont know why but i'm thinking up with like 80 metaphors for this. I'l spare you though.
The reason BGH playing people get made fun of on forums is because people like you feel some need to insult them, despite the fact that without them SC would be nowhere. Insecure nerds like you think that somehow this game is about skill to everyone, not about fun. Well, it's a game, and it's supposed to be fun...people don't play it because they want be the next damn Boxer, they play it because it's more fun to have an APM of 45 and play Fastest than it is to play for hours and hours so they can be D+ and still get raped sideways by everyone they play. How many of the games on Bnet do you think are Fastest and BGH, especially in the Western community? Without the "fun" community, this game would be nowhere near as widespread or "big" as it is today.
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100% agree with DarK]N[exuS.
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just close this thread, you d+ players know nothing about bghers (and bw either), its just ridiculous how some of you try to argue about a community u dont even know..
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On January 07 2007 09:16 Physician wrote:
(and no I don't play BGH)
why did u have to specify that ?
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On January 07 2007 20:54 LeJe wrote:why did u have to specify that ?
Probally to avoid the flames he knew he might get as a result if he didn't.
Thanks for sharing this, even if not the most spectacular thing ever. You really are a credit to the SC community at large.
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Osaka27180 Posts
What I posted in their forum thread about this:
Hiya-
My name is Manifesto7, and I am an admin at TeamLiquid.net
This is my first time to your site (thanks to Entropy) but I have enjoyed looking around.
Many of our less than intelligent forum members seem to think that BGH takes no skill, and that they would easily trounce BGH players. Instead of constant flaming though, I thought it would be nice to put together a little showmatch, where some regular forum members here could play some of our regular forum members. Not the professionals from either community, just the regular folks.
I thought maybe we could do a bo5 on BGH, and a bo5 on low money? Are BGH games usually 2v2/3v3 or is there 1v1 as well? Im sorry I dont know a whole bunch about it.
Anyways, if you guys wanted to have some fun and play some different people, let me know or send a PM to Manifesto7 on this site or teamliquid.net I will check back here in a day or two.
Cheers.
Any takers? Remember, this is just for fun. It looks like their community is really small, but they all use PP and they look like a manner bunch of guys. Anybody down for a showmatch?
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Yeah I just read your post and replied there.
There are very few players who play BGH 1v1, and even those who do play it less than team games. Also, most 1v1s are 6v7 games (a UMS BGH game rigged so that players always spawn at 6 and 7 positions on the map). So I'm not sure if they'll want to 1v1, but its really up to them.
For the low bo5, luna would be a good choice. Very, very few BGH have ever played any other maps, and most of those who have, have only played them a select few times. But its up to you guys and who ever coordinates this at the bghers.com end.
I think we (ie Manifesto7, since he started this) should get some 5-7 players from TL.net and post their names on that site. I think we should also decide on a format + maps and post them there, then let them make any changes they think are fair.
Maybe volunteers from TL.net who want to play should signal their interest in this thread? Manifesto can decide the final team I guess.
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well, fayth sucks. let's not get carried away. i've beaten him with my zerg (I'm a toss player).
but yeah bgh players are not that much worse than your average poster here. im surprised testie and daze and testie and idra lost to bghers 2v2 though. daze and idra must have been dead weight because testie is no slouch when it comes to mass money games.
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Hi all,
I have a confession to make. I'm actually the admin of bghers.com that takes care of the script/hardware side of things. When I was doing my routine check of the site, I found that Manifesto7 was our newest member and I was wondering if that was TL's manifesto so I came by here to search for his email to try to find some matches but finding this thread, it's obvious I wont need to anymore.
I'm quite pleased that talk of our site has generated so much discussion on tl's boards and even though I've been around tl for a long while, I didn't quite feel confident enough to bring up a subject as taboo as BGH (and instead just answered threads that were closer to my expertise... linux/hardware, scripting, etc.)
Before I go any further, I'd like to address our Pimpest Plays edition. It is a work in progress by one of our members (Terrangod) who felt compelled to contribute to the site and we gave him the centerstage of our site to display his work. Bear in mind that this is our very first edition of Pimpest Plays (of course modelled after the the Original Pimpest Plays (afaik by MnM? go bears!)) so there are a lot of kinks to iron out. We had trouble trying to decide which is the best and still our community is still hotly debating whether that pylon block deserves the top spot (as can be evidenced by the comments under the PP news). I'm pretty confident that by the time our second pimpest plays edition comes around, the quality should be much better as the lessons we learned from doing the first one gets realized.
Now, I'd like to address your site-to-site challenge. If you visit our site and poke around our news, you'll find that we've done these "showmatches" before. Most recently we had one vs NPNL clan (i still have to finish writing that article) and before that, we challenged the "fastest" guys over at scdream.com. Win or lose, as an admin I think this is a great way to generate more traffic and exposure to the site, to both our sites. This is great news. I'll let my team of admins handle the details of the challenge and communicate personally with Mani. Most likely you will be contacted by "lousy_robot" for venue, scheduling, rules, etc.
Most currently, we've just launched our first ever 2v2 Pro League games. I've just finished writing the scripts to keep track of the wins/losses and we also post the replays to these games on the site itself. These replays tend to be of higher quality and typically saved with penguin plug (bwlauncher).
I'm looking foward to the games btwn BGHers and TL, may the best team win!
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Osaka27180 Posts
So far I have one person PM me and say they are interested in representing TL, who else?
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I am doing a showmatch vs their best
Kural
BO7 BGH and BO7 on regular maps.
He's quite good at BGH, we went 13-0 vs their good BGH teams and considering Daze and I lost 3-4 was it?... That says a lot!
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
On January 07 2007 22:17 borg wrote:..even though I've been around tl for a long while, I didn't quite feel confident enough to bring up a subject as taboo as BGH..
Bah I eat taboo's for breakfast.. .
One word of advice Mani, its a trick - trap, don't fall for it! They pull out these unknown Germans out the woodwork and do rapage & pillage with melee players. Schnibl0r and Testie may smurf for them too! Both have some BGH loyalty still left in them. Schnibl0r came out of BGH community, at a pretty decent level too and Testie, he is liable to play for both camps!
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lol physician, dont worry. manifesto clearly explained: "where some regular forum members here could play some of our regular forum members"
of course, we'll just iron out the small wrinkles here and there, once we get together and hammer this out
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looks to be some interesing replays!
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EPT
