EPTHypothetical Balance Patch - Page 11
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TelecoM
United States10670 Posts
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
On February 15 2015 20:14 GGzerG wrote: game is an artwork itself. but...it contradicts your previous post :o On January 21 2015 07:13 GGzerG wrote: Maybe make Gateway build time 10 seconds faster, for when I proxy 2gate. thought i guess this kind of sums up what people post in this thread, their bias idea of how a game should be (changing for the sake of changing to their tastes) rather than thinking of the overall meta of the game itself, which even with no changes for long has already rigorously proven itself over the years. "If it aint broke don't fix it". That why I frown on threads like these. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 15 2015 19:57 Probemicro wrote: ...anyway i was just suggesting stuff more in the spirit of the original BW classification rather resorting to D.Kim M.D style of brute force inelegant balancing okay, I'm still annoyed at you from the other thread, but that's pretty good. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 15 2015 19:42 Liquid`Drone wrote: assuming you mean large;) anyway, on the scout vs ground units debate.. scouts had their air to ground attack nerfed pretty hard during some early patch, 1.02 or something? I don't actually think they changed the damage, just the cooldown, but well, until they did, mass scout was a dominant strategy. I recall playing a game (this is like, summer 1998 lol) where me and my opponent had split a map in half, so economy was the same for both players, I was terran, he was protoss.. my choice of units? turrets and goliaths. his choice of unit? scouts. And he destroyed me! completely! And I was overall a better player than him - that was the only time I ever lost against him! granted this was before goliath range and valkyries, but still. scouts with slightly faster air to ground attack were so good that they, for cost, destroyed pure turret+goliath. Now the game has changed so much that it wouldn't look the same, but buffing scouts ATG attack in any significant way could really fuck with pvt.. If you've ever played a free for all and you've met some protoss jerk who microes well and managed to amass 24 3 3 3 speed scouts, you'll know what I mean, because fighting against that is absolutely terrible even when they just have 8 base attack. make it 14, it'll be craazy. This.^ As I kinda tried to explain on page 9, maybe not so well. It's not as hard to make scout/wraith ATG OP as ppl might think, though yeah, it is underwhelming as it stands. Basically in 1.04/BW, Bliz did two things to tone down scout/wraith ATG: 1) the scout/wraith ATG cooldown nerf 2) the intro of a whole new class of air units that specialized in ATA/taking down scout/wraith/muta packs: sairs, valks, devs (though devs need support from other air units). Also a major upgrade, goliath range. IMO, they should've done one or the other, not both. Mutas had only one done to them, and they're still very good at harassment. Scouts and wraiths had both done to them, and they aren't anymore ('cept for wraiths in TvT). | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On January 21 2015 07:06 eviltomahawk wrote: Bunker build time +/- 5 seconds Also buff ghosts What? Hey, Terran is the most accomplished, highest win rate, race in BW, let's buff them even more for absolutely no reason. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
also swarm fuck swarm | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28643 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10670 Posts
On February 15 2015 20:44 Probemicro wrote: but...it contradicts your previous post :o thought i guess this kind of sums up what people post in this thread, their bias idea of how a game should be (changing for the sake of changing to their tastes) rather than thinking of the overall meta of the game itself, which even with no changes for long has already rigorously proven itself over the years. "If it aint broke don't fix it". That why I frown on threads like these. If you honestly for a split nano second I was being serious... (LOL) ... BW is perfectly balanced, it just needs updates to the interface. | ||
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OnegameClub
Philippines18 Posts
*hallucination - seen it used for dragging mines,beefing up ur army or flanking terrans idle defense by casting it on nearby terran armies which are static. idle templars energy early game are just like underutilized comsats, plus casting it is cheap enough. *optical flare and medic energy upgrade combo - very useful for lurkers, reavers, carriers. the A.I.seems to use this thing so much more efficiently and is super annoying | ||
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Lightswarm
Canada966 Posts
Devourer: new upgrade - Devourer attacks deal splash damage on targets based on number of spore stacks, max 9 (NOTE: does not affect primary target) Scout: replace sight upgrade with +2 range upgrade (from 4 to 6) Dark Archon: mind control energy (150) down to 125. If target unit max HP > 125, drain shield on HP/energy difference. Lose control of target unit(s) if Dark Archon dies, but retain building control from captured workers. Nuclear silo: can build/launch nukes while detached from CC but capturable by enemy CC Medic: optic flare also reduces ranged attack ranges by (-1), melee units not affected. blind unchanged | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/441458-if-you-could-patch-brood-war Only a year and a bit. My Response here On February 16 2015 08:55 arb wrote: i think the most obvious nerf would be something to zergling attack speed with adrenal glands upgrade, lategame watching 1 zergling nearly kill a zealot is kinda absurb imo. also swarm fuck swarm You might not be being very serious but you'd be delusional if you were. Assuming equal upgrades: Zealot life = 60 Shield, 100 life, 1 armour; Zergling damage = 5 = {(60÷5)+(100÷4)} = 37 hits. Attack rate of once every 6 frames with Adrenal Glands = 222 frames @ 24 frames per second = 9.25 real time seconds at fastest speed. Zergling life = 35 life, 0 armour; Zealot damage = 2×8 = {(35÷16} = 3 hits. Attack rate of once every 22 frames = 66 frames @ 24 frames per second = 2.75 real time seconds at fastest speed. 9.25≉2.75. On February 15 2015 16:44 neobowman wrote: [...]Thankfully there are no medium air units iirc but this still leaves us with a problem if we use concussion damage. [...] It doesn't really affect your intended point but Queens and Corsairs are medium. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On February 15 2015 21:19 [[Starlight]] wrote: okay, I'm still annoyed at you from the other thread, but that's pretty good. When it's good, it's good. And this is good. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
dont really think anything should be -buffed without nerfs- nukes really should not be touched i think | ||
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Tadah
Sweden120 Posts
On February 15 2015 16:44 neobowman wrote: My autocorrect doesn't know how to play starcraft. The problem with concussive is that while it does full damage to small units, it does quarter damage to large. Compare this with explosive damage which does half damage to small and full to large. Thankfully there are no medium air units iirc but this still leaves us with a problem if we use concussion damage. Spores that would do, say 20 damage to mutas instead of the current 15 would do 5 damage to wraiths if a Terran goes 2port wraith. The brute force solution would be to just make spores ridiculously overpowered against scourge and mutas but I don't think that would be ideal. I haven't checked the thread extensively so just in case someone hasn't corrected you on this already I should inform you that Sairs are indeed classified as medium. You wouldn't want them to be made more or less impervious against spores do you now? :D With regards to your suggested spore buff, I think my earlier suggestion in this thread, of giving Spore Colonies a damage output of 25 with an increased attack cooldown, from 15, to 22.5 would be ideal (of course you would have to give scourges 30 hp instead of 25, but I have no issues with that. Battlecruisers would basically have to be fully upgraded to one shot them, which I am ok with). Mutas will be killed in ( (Muta HP)/(Spore attack) ) x (Spore attack cooldown) = 108 (kill efficency units?) as opposed to 120 as it stands now. A slight improvement. An upside of my proposed change would also be that Corsairs no longer just get tickled by Spores but will actually sustain some real damage from them. | ||
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riyanme
Philippines940 Posts
nerfs?! do you even understand counters? that mentallity makes what SC2 so bad today... | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On February 16 2015 12:17 riyanme wrote: this balance talk is utterly USELESS.... nerfs?! do you even understand counters? that mentallity makes what SC2 so bad today... No, that's not the reason that SC2 is bad It's bad because it never had interesting or fun units If it had had such units, then that mentality would threaten them, but since those units have never existed in the first place, it's not the reason for the game being boring. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 16 2015 12:17 riyanme wrote: this balance talk is utterly USELESS.... nerfs?! do you even understand counters? that mentallity makes what SC2 so bad today... Gotta luv the ppl who jump into a thread to complain about it while contributing nothing.  Don't like it, don't read it... simple as that. Or at least offer specific examples/useful thoughts while complaining. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 16 2015 09:52 GGzerG wrote: If you honestly for a split nano second I was being serious... (LOL) ... BW is perfectly balanced, it just needs updates to the interface. No game this complex can ever be perfectly balanced, that 's impossible. Best one could say is that balance is 'good enough'. Some ppl feel that it is, some don't, and there's good arguments on both sides. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 16 2015 10:13 Lightswarm wrote: Queen: parasite energy (75) down to 50, spawn broodling energy (150) down to 125 A lot of ppl suggest Spawn Broodling to 125 mana in order to make Queens more useful, but.... an inexpensive unit that just flies in and insta-kills two ultras, tanks, high temps, whatever? Probably too good. I mean, irradiate is a borderline unfair spell against zerg, but at least it comes out of an expensive unit, and it's not an insta-kill, irradiated units can still get spells off, fight for awhile, etc (and ultras don't even die to it). If you want to see more Queens (I do), the key is probably making ensnare better/more effective. As a 75 mana spell, it also would get used earlier and in a more bread-and-butter kind of way than broodling ever could be. Devourer: new upgrade - Devourer attacks deal splash damage on targets based on number of spore stacks, max 9 (NOTE: does not affect primary target) I kind of think the way to get devs used more is to increase the role of air in general... if you see more BCs, Scout packs, Wraith packs, etc, then you should see more devs, because muta/dev is POWERFUL. Would be nice if devs came out a bit earlier too, they're considerably higher on the tech tree than other races' pure anti-air (sairs, valks). Scout: replace sight upgrade with +2 range upgrade (from 4 to 6) Scouts just need a better ground attack IMO, perhaps cheaper/faster speed upgrade too. Their air-to-air is quite powerful already, doesn't really need a range upgrade. Dark Archon: mind control energy (150) down to 125. If target unit max HP > 125, drain shield on HP/energy difference. Lose control of target unit(s) if Dark Archon dies, but retain building control from captured workers. Again, like 125 mana broodling, probably too good. With 125 mana mind control, okay, four capital ships are incoming. A single DA could potentially MC two of them, have those two fight the other two. One lone DA potentially stops four capital ships, without support. Yeah, seems a bit too rock star. For more MC and more DA, probably just make DAs more survivable after using MC... either MC only partially drains shields (as you suggested), or DAs get a bit more hp. Nuclear silo: can build/launch nukes while detached from CC but capturable by enemy CC Why? Just make ghosts a bit better. Medic: optic flare also reduces ranged attack ranges by (-1), melee units not affected. blind unchanged Have no opinion on optic flare, it doesn't get used, maybe it should. The bigger issue with medics is that, as many ppl have noted over the years, medic/marine is borderline OP vs zerg, the heal rate is pretty damn fast. Z needs to get a really good surround and/or just flat have very superior numbers to do much vs M&M until lurkers or mutas come out. | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
A problem with nerfing MnM is it lessens the viability of bio TvZ too much. I think tweaking the zerg midgame without affecting vP is the key. But really the only thing I'd change in terran is the bunker build time. For protoss, I don't know, lessen hallucination energy cost to 75 and lessen the upgrade cost to 100,100? Adds to the protoss quality of durability by taking hits and adds creativity I guess. | ||
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