• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:08
CEST 04:08
KST 11:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy1GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding0Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage
Tourneys
[BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST [BSL22] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CEST 🌍 Weekly Foreign Showmatches [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1727 users

Why we need regional and national scenes

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-07 23:34:07
December 07 2014 23:33 GMT
#1

Hello fine folks and Broodwar enthusiasts!

Christmas is usually a time that is associated with family values and contemplation. For me it seems like the perfect excuse to give into my urge, to talk about the bigger questions of Brood War and to philosophize about a subject that has been on my mind for quite a while. But, before I jump right into it, it might be worth telling you first where my interest in the subject is rooted. I started first playing “competitively” in 2006, I could jump on the reminiscence train here and write a whole article about that, how I got here with this amazing game and its amazing community, but I will try to focus on today. So, to summarize it briefly, my early days in Broodwar were very much defined by the German scene, which centered around Broodwar.de. Basically, the German scene was a micro cosmos of its own. I used to surf the boards and play and talk with people about Broodwar but the main context was almost always the German scene. We had our two national teams that created some drama of their own.

We had our legends like (Wiki)Mondragon or (Wiki)FiSheYe, and our own villains, notorious hackers like (Wiki)Selector and just a lot of guys that were really bad mannered in open discussions. Now it was not a peaceful paradise, there were and in fact still are some guys in the German scene that hated each other ferociously and could not get along if their life depended on it. But we had something going on. In fact I was so absorbed into the German scene, it took me a full year to really discover the rest of the foreign scene and the wonders of professional Starcraft in Korea. How is this relevant to this article? Well, long story short, when I returned to Broodwar in 2012, after having enough of StarCraft 2, I quickly realized that the scene had shrunk a lot and also that the German scene was basically nonexistent. Of course guys still played but the main discourse had shifted from German sites to international ones like Teamliquid. There was not a national team anymore and little topics that concerned the German scene as such. So I embarked on a mediocrely successful quest to bring back some life to the German scene, of which I will spare you the boring details! Suffice to say, other guys and I tried to connect the remaining Germans and put up a few events here and there, to revitalize the “glue” that kept the thing together in the first place.


Now, the obvious question at hand is, why invest a lot of time and work into this project, when the international foreign scene was alive and healthy in comparison and bigger things might be able to be achieved there? Why would you create content that had a specifc group in mind and not everybody?

I wrote this introduction in part to make it clear to you that of course I had nostalgic reasons to do so, and I just missed the old times. But besides that, I do also believe that local (not even necessarily national scenes) serve an important function for the community as a whole. From here on I would like to elaborate on some of these functions.



Identification and relation



When we started playing competitively many of us first joined a clan or peer group we shared our language and time zone with. That might sound a bit abstract, but can easily be explained: My first competitive clan had only German users, all my friends on the friends list were German as well. We associate this way, because it is the easiest thing to do. We do not have a language barrier that messes up communication and we perhaps assume we share more of a cultural background. So, naturally, the first StarCraft site we got to know was most likely a site in our own language, which catered to the interests of their specific playerbase. Of course, from there we branched out and discovered the rest of the glorious Broodwar universe, but many guys I talked to still feel strongly connected to their “home site”.

That means that to many users these fan sites keep an important role as sources for information and social contact - keeping in contact with players you know, et cetera. And if all these contacts share the same national or cultural background the user will likely associate themselves as part of this community and thusly take greater interest in what is going on in this scene. This explains why portals create content, which is specifically aimed at a certain group of fans. Identification with the sub group “German Scene” or “Russian Scene” makes a member of said group more responsive to content that caters to this group. To illustrate, if you were to announce a show match between Androide and Flash today, Russians might actually be more excited about Androide playing than anybody else, because they identify with the player more.



The “role” of regional and national fansites



Of course all of these sites create Broodwar content; so far that is a no-brainer. But I argue here that dedicated national or regional Broodwar sites serve a function which is not or only barely replaceable by international portals. They allow for the creation of content that would not get enough attention or viewership, when we talk about streamed tournaments, on an international site. The (Wiki)Russian King of the Hill organized by Largo and reps.ru in 2012 can serve as a prime example for this. While also being promoted on Teamliquid.net, it seems clear this KOTH format was mainly aimed at and was supported by its large Russian fan base. Of course it is not coincidental; it was mainly casted in Russian. It is speculative, but I feel it is safe to assume, that the same event would have had significantly less recognition without the backing of a dedicated Russian fan site. But content that is connected to a specific community and their according site is not limited to tournaments. It also includes bits of news (e.g. background stories, player hype), which are not interesting enough outside of the context of the sub scene.

For instance an update on the new player list of Germanys B-Team back in 2007 might not have been interesting to everyone, but to me certainly. And going alongside that, the according discussions, the joy and the drama also takes place in the forums of those websites. What I am going at here is a national fan site can have unique content of its own, that does not even stand in competition to what international sites have. The extent to which such fan sites produce content that is first and foremost only interesting to its own sub scene may vary. While talking to (Wiki)Largo as part of my research, I learned that reps.ru for instance does not see itself as a portal, which covers mainly news from the Russian scene, but instead to cover the whole spectrum of the scene. Only a smaller proportion like the KOTH is primarily aimed at Russians and only secondly at other (third party) users. Reps.ru has been founded as replay café and database in 2002, but quickly started to cover the foreign and Korean scene as well .

We can quite likely attribute that to the fact that reps.ru is an important gatekeeper concerning the language barrier for the Russian users. On the other hand, Broodwar.de back when the German scene was quite big, dedicated more of its resources to content specifically aimed at the German scene. Of course we had the BWCL, an international league after 2005, running each Sunday, and did a few other events supporting English as well. But a lot of attention was given to content which only targeted the German user base.



Language Barrier and Gatekeeper function



Obviously a big part of the portfolio of a fan site with a non-native English user base is translating news and covering what goes on in the alien world. An interesting point to mention here is not all fan sites are equally interested in translating content for their “home market”. How much manpower is dedicated to this task is based upon two parameters, as far as I can tell. First, how much manpower is used to translate foreign content is related to how much human capital you have in the first place. When your staff is rather small, you cannot dedicate big chunks to “just repeat what somebody else already wrote” in your own tongue and neglect your core business at the same time, which is still covering your own stuff and creating your own content.

Secondly, it also depends on how much your user base is interested in coverage of foreign content in their own language. A small, nationally-oriented fan site might neglect the coverage of the rest of the scene altogether, when it is safe to assume that the users are reading the coverage on international sites anyway. On the other hand, when we examine the role of reps.ru, their rather extended coverage of the Korean and international foreign scene makes a lot of sense, since the Russian scene used to be pretty big and the percentage of Russians who do not read English adequately enough to follow an English coverage is high in comparison to the German scene for instance, where most users used to surf on English websites like Gousgamers.net and Teamliquid.net. But to a certain extent every non-English based fan site covered international content and translated it back to its home market.



What is it good for?



Now you may think, well that is all fine and dandy, but why are you telling us all this? What is it good for? Well, first I wanted to share my impression with you guys, why our scene benefits as a whole from variety and diversity in different Broodwar fan sites. In my understanding, different fan sites offer different things to their users and in sum produce more meaningful content, which is the foundation of our scene being alive and healthy. How often have you heard the argument “Broodwar is dead because nothing is happening?” I heard that line quite often and I think that having a healthy plethora of different sites and different projects going on independently is the best way to counteract such notions.

Now, what I explicitly do not want, is to bash or belittle the great work, that is done on big fan sites with an international focus, like Gousgamers did in the past and Teamliquid still does. We need those platforms to come together and communicate, organize and follow the big projects and have a unified portal as a gateway to the Korean scene. Teamliquid does an admirable job in this and I personally come here often and do some small content creation of my own, like this article. However, as I pointed out earlier, just having one big fan site and meeting point does not suffice in my opinion. When it comes to the foreign BW scene, I believe diversity is a good thing; the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.


Nowadays, we live in times where almost all Broodwar Fan Sites have big problems finding motivated staff or contributors. You do not even need to be on the staff list, in most cases you just need a project you want to pursue and you will find a place to do it and people who are willing to help you with it. But where the lack of motivated coworkers is “just a problem” for the big sites, it is a catastrophe for smaller fan sites. Being the only Broodwar related Staff member of Broodwar.de (or inStarcraft.de to be precise) this point is pretty obvious to me. And that is not the only place where we can do a lot with very little. I do not know of any Broodwar related fan site that is not looking for coworkers desperately. So, here is my appeal to all of you who managed to read up to this part: Get involved, do something, be active!

From writing articles, sorting VODs and organizing small or big tournaments, there is plenty of stuff that can be done. If we just rely on a very small core group of guys to get things rolling we risk having nothing in the end, because everybody loses their steam eventually. You do not even need to pursue the classic routes of participation. Write a blog, organize a fun tournament for your teammates and allies or think of something else completely. There are little to no areas, where you will meet resistance when you decide to create some form of content.


Having said my piece, it would be a shame to end this article in gloom and doom mentality. This following Starcraft movie is done by (Wiki)Retuh, a German guy and of course focusses on one of “our heroes”, [pG] FiSheYe. The Germans were very much into Starcraft movies and of course, the most popular movies focused on german players. So, enjoy:

Broodwar for life!
HerbMon
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States469 Posts
December 08 2014 00:22 GMT
#2
Wow great read. i completely agree. Its just the fact of the american side i feel like people (lack of a better term) are not as loyal. 1 week i'll have a group of people to practice with and just enjoy the game with. following week their off playing l.o.l or sc2. Also im proud to say im "that guy" who goes on the sc2 forum on reddit to post stuff about broodwar along side with Hyrilgambit, alezit and other great people i cant think of at the top of my head.i would say for america southern areas like mexico,chili,etc are better representatives but being an English speaker. (i know very little Spanish) i feel like i cant really tap into their source. That being said if anyone would be willing to help me with that it would be greatly appreciated. But as of the article it was highly inspiring and pushes me to try to produce some material from myself.
How we will win in the period ahead.
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
December 08 2014 01:51 GMT
#3
glad you liked it, thank you :>
Broodwar for life!
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
December 08 2014 02:49 GMT
#4
I'll take your Selector and raise you one Testie.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
December 08 2014 03:03 GMT
#5
Main problem with US scenes is taht USA is too big geographically to even get a local scene going :/. but for europe and latin america, its doable since the scenes are geographically small enough
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
Probemicro
Profile Joined February 2014
3708 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-08 03:11:50
December 08 2014 03:10 GMT
#6
On December 08 2014 12:03 amazingxkcd wrote:
Main problem with US scenes is taht USA is too big geographically to even get a local scene going :/. but for europe and latin america, its doable since the scenes are geographically small enough


er china is pretty big geographically too...but its BW scene is still probably bigger than anywhere else other than korea. its all about having people with the passion and coffers to help promote/boost the scene (ie.sonic)
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-08 03:53:07
December 08 2014 03:46 GMT
#7
On December 08 2014 12:03 amazingxkcd wrote:
Main problem with US scenes is taht USA is too big geographically to even get a local scene going :/. but for europe and latin america, its doable since the scenes are geographically small enough


Well, another point to me is, that native English speakers are less incentivised to run their own project or subculture in Broodwar, because they communicate in their native language on international sites like TL. For non native english speakers, a certain percental of users remains inhibited in following and participating in the forums and news.

How much those users rely on english sites depends on how good their english skill in average is and good the alternatives are. It's no coincidance, that the Russians for instance have their own thing going on at defiler and are pretty successful with it. The scene is relatively big and thus "enables" a big nexus like defiler&reps.ru and, on average, many Russians don't posses the english skills so participate in every discussion on TL
Broodwar for life!
prech
Profile Joined March 2014
United States2948 Posts
December 08 2014 03:59 GMT
#8
Motivational stuff

[image loading]
Liquipedia
HeyImFinn
Profile Joined September 2011
United States250 Posts
December 08 2014 04:54 GMT
#9
eSports in general are almost non-existent where I live. But if there's ever any events happening, I'd be more than willing to cast.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
December 08 2014 04:59 GMT
#10
On December 08 2014 13:54 HeyImFinn wrote:
eSports in general are almost non-existent where I live. But if there's ever any events happening, I'd be more than willing to cast.


or try to make your own (;
Broodwar for life!
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10700 Posts
December 08 2014 07:46 GMT
#11
On December 08 2014 12:03 amazingxkcd wrote:
Main problem with US scenes is taht USA is too big geographically to even get a local scene going :/. but for europe and latin america, its doable since the scenes are geographically small enough


It isn't because of the geographical difference in size lol....it is because majority of gamers now a days could be considered "casual" when comparing various recent games to the skill gaps that are and have almost always been present in BW, All of the people that I talk to about StarCraft say they like the game, but it is too difficult, or just too much going on at once, too difficult to understand the concept, ect.

I think also that most "gamers" these days are more concerned with graphics rather than game play these days, at least in the various states I have lived.

I think the answer is all too obvious though, things have to be already built and running well to attract a large geographical number of peoples interest from any part of the usa.

Also I think Europe is pretty big geographically.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Fighter
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1531 Posts
December 08 2014 09:00 GMT
#12
On December 08 2014 12:10 Probemicro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2014 12:03 amazingxkcd wrote:
Main problem with US scenes is taht USA is too big geographically to even get a local scene going :/. but for europe and latin america, its doable since the scenes are geographically small enough


er china is pretty big geographically too...but its BW scene is still probably bigger than anywhere else other than korea. its all about having people with the passion and coffers to help promote/boost the scene (ie.sonic)


China is also WAY more densely populated, which is the real deciding factor.

The west of China is sparsely populated, whereas the east and south have massive cities, and even cities with over 1 million population get labeled "small". Compare that to the U.S. where the spread is much more even, hence strong scenes seem to basically revolve around places like Los Angeles and New York. The same thing plays out in Korea, where you have 50 million people living in the space of a small US state, where about half the population lives near Seoul and it's not unreasonable to move there if you're from the other half.
For Aiur???
GeckoXp
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Germany2016 Posts
December 08 2014 10:38 GMT
#13
I miss the old days a lot and not at all at the same time. Things like the hundreds of Selector incidents, especially the one involving the Ger Team leaving I do not miss, yet the tons of stories revolving around the forums. Not sure which we should link and which we shouldn't.

A small excerpt:

Anything regarding Grummel and his silly casts, most memorable taking phone calls of friends, family and his grandma on air

Budi's idiotic commentary on GIGA, most notably HATCHERYYYyyyyyyyy

The endless poll rigging for GIGA, WCG and other events, in later days bog's fantastic scripts taking down this rural community's homepage, eventually ending up with YNC, the lumberjack, who got fucked over by Amazon

Caryz (rather "unknown and D+ish User") flamed the shit out of HoRRoR, the reason why I forgot. That involved a somewhat interesting video of Caryz showing off and eventually "ended" with TerraIncognita trying to settle it real life during the DBBW 5 LAN.

There'd be the Zere story all of Liquipedia knows, involving nude pictures after losing a show match. The nudes resurfaced btw.

LoNiC's total overraction news regarding hackers, cheaters or anyone he didn't like. I remember some news listing achievements as "caught hacking 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005" lmao

DNA]3rdSin[ trying to attract sponsors with his mails saying "I once beat some German B-Teamer and will soon win the WCGs"

The story about the first january of two users regarding some fireworks and a burned down shed or something.

The many "interesting" LSZ topics about "How to chat up a girl", and all the online dating sites

Unique users like Clawg and his conspircay theories, as well his "upcoming" book about "philosophy". Muskete -> Kapitalismus

Infamous leader zZzZ, who managed the national teams at the age of 12

This other page stealing our content via Copy and Paste, who also adviced to counter any 5 pool with a 9 pool in ZvT

"More erotic in SC2?"

StarFury's intros for the TV Series championships, especially the "translated" statement of Michael C. Hall and that ex-Gosu Gamers Admin, who started to rage in that topic

Generally any Picard & StarFury posts, as well as Nomics Paint Wars

"Is that Korean Draco???" during BW4eVeR

everyone complaining about Disruptor's way of driving cars
DarkNetHunter
Profile Joined October 2012
1224 Posts
December 08 2014 14:10 GMT
#14
First I want to say this is quite well written, and I think you do bring up a lot of valid ideas, however I'd like to point out why this may be a flawed pursuit.

Anyone who checks TL is already an internationalized user, so unless they already have personal ties to home country natives who do not have a sufficient enough knowledge of English to browse this website, they won't feel any obligation to interact with their locality in a subforum or alternate website. The improvement of English language skills in the last ten years globally may also contribute to this.
Furthermore, this game is dated, so gaining new participants through localization seems unlikely, it would just be dividing human resources from sites like TL into other sub-sites, but not increasing the userbase in total. While I see Russia and China as exceptions, their userbase has never been a big section of TLers, you can't artificially create this localization. Either localization is already there (Chinese & Russian scene) or it has no viable userebase/is unnecessary, hence it's not there or no longer there.
In my estimation most Germans and a growing proportion of European and other netizens know enough English to engage in international forums, and thus the requirement for localized content is dropping.

In contrast to the main point of the article:

For me one of the great things about BW was joining some clan back in 2004 with italians, germans, swedes, french people and others and everyone just trying to get by with broken English and lots of gaming. Where you came from didn't matter and you learned to communicate somehow to get your meaning across.
Not being restricted to your locality and having an international scene was for me the best community aspect of BW. One of the biggest reasons why I hated bnet 0.2 with its regional limitations, is that in BW you could play on Europe during the daylight hours, go to US East as the evening progressed and then US West as the night became morning and interact with people from all over the world, which was no longer possible.

I think regionalism and localization are both bad, they serve to preserve archaic boundaries of geography and culture when we are united through the internet and a game that transcends both.







Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.
sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3122 Posts
December 08 2014 14:23 GMT
#15
we need another nation wars
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
True_Spike
Profile Joined July 2004
Poland3429 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-08 14:39:07
December 08 2014 14:34 GMT
#16
Back when I played BW I did so mostly because of the robust polish scene. I dare say it was the biggest non-korean scene for quite a while, with its own server(s), ladder(s), clan war system and clan league (at one point we've had over 100 teams participating, all required to field 5x 1v1 & 2x 2v2 for each clan war and only players of polish nationality were allowed to compete). The best polish teams could compete with anyone (e.g. my very own GameNet absolutely demolished the first season of the BWCL premier league, winning the entire thing without dropping a match - 11-0 against the best foreign teams of the time). Also, being a part of the national team back then was considered an honor and that's probably one of the main reasons why team Poland had so much talent behind it.

Something was going on *constantly*, on top of the usual foreign / korean stuff. Nowadays, BW is dead outside of Korea, unfortunately, and no initiative can bring it back. It's just a matter of (no) popularity amongst current gamers and their mentality. E-sports has grown and now its more about (financial) viability than fun.
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-08 14:48:10
December 08 2014 14:46 GMT
#17
@Darknethunter:
well, i think you assume that regional and international activity rule each other out when it comes to engagement in the BW community. I don't think that's the case for most people, though certainly i can't speak for everybody and im deriving this of my own experience and judgement call. To me, engaging active again in the german scene has not mitigated, but strengthened my engagement here on TL. Im more active in terms of dooing cross promotion and translating/converting content from english to german, thus using both portals. i'm not advocating any form of exlcusive nationalism or patriotism that means to cut out or care less about the international scene. Now you may argue that one can only do so much and we don't have unlimited time to pursue out hobby (broodwar), but i don't think many people are running at "full capacity" so to speak. thus i don't see the risk of users getting lost for the international portal. I agree to you, that you can't force compartmentalization doesn't work, i wouldn't advocate that. But to my opinion, there's plenty of sub scenes who had a lot going on before the decline that came with Sc2 and where potential is just beeing neglected.

Considering your argument of growing netizens english skills: true, but from my experiecne there's still plenty of users, who don't speak english that well. I agree with you, Broodwar should be an international thing, where people connect and overcome archaic boundaries. However, i don't think having a wider spread of fan sites will lead user beeing alienated.

Thx for the interesting feedback though, i can see where you're coming from.
Broodwar for life!
GeckoXp
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Germany2016 Posts
December 08 2014 15:03 GMT
#18
On December 08 2014 23:10 DarkNetHunter wrote:

Furthermore, this game is dated, so gaining new participants through localization seems unlikely, it would just be dividing human resources from sites like TL into other sub-sites, but not increasing the userbase in total.




I don't think the article tries to promote the idea to support one scene over the other or to take resources from one end and throw it somewhere else entirely, or for that matter, tell which scene was better than another.

I agree with some of Cele's thoughts, but not entirely as well. One thing we kind of missed to do was to simply network with the other centers of Brood War. There was so much going on elsewhere, e.g. the LANs in Russia and Peru, the entire Defiler Series went as "underground stuff" until Episode 30 or so. Might not be of use to many of us, but still enough content.

Might be there's a group of users out there, who'd like to organize small stuff in contrast to large projects like STL, TLS, ILME or stuff, as they feel it's not close. Creating something small in your own scene at first an advertise it here is a solution in addition to their "home area" is not bad imo. Personally, I was often under the impression that post-SCII-Teamliquid had the tendency to look "down" on non-English/non-sisisisierious BW events, or simply didn't care much. The last exhibit of that attitude can be found in some of this Calendar's tournaments: "makes sense to host for five people".


[On a sidenote to the author of that piece of infinite wisdom: a) Europe is NOT a country and b) it did not hurt anyone but you]

Well... it's just an impression. You never know what comes around with these things. I guess everyone would have shrugged if you heard of stuff like Defiler or the D Ranks leagues in the months after SCII Beta - who cared anyway? Tons of people still did. So, my point is, maybe some people who would do stuff might lack the courage to advertise their stuff, cause they think it just might not be welcomed too much, when in fact there's something it could be done. Usually these type of organizers are already there, just don't post or contribute yet. Nobody is asking for Teamliquid to magically wave a wand to create national tournaments for a group of Zimbabwean Zulu exclusively. Teamliquid is rather nice, once you got over the fact that posting memes / posting "politically incorrect" [...] is a major offense, because of teenagers reading.

Also, tons of creativity seems to be lost on the way. You might underestimate how much more we used to have in terms of exchange and all back in the day. Part of the incentive to play BW came from the community (which you pointed out) and just sharing with non-natives. I kinda miss that. I'm also kinda fed up with reading thread #100 about Korean related material. It's a mainstream culture most often today, but it's not what kept me here. Right now it's often a bit like

1. Either love Korea and want to read hundred of pages about it, or
2. Love some of other TL.net forums and occasionally hang out in the forums
3. do both

Again, no offense to people who do 1,2 or 3 (or can't / don't want to organize/do write ups/ ...). It's just we could use some more of everything. What misses are foreigner stories, other BW content about this and that - AI Competitions, Map Making, Fun Campaigns, the UMS scene, some of the BGH Antics, ..., anything but consuming Afreeca Re-Streams.

BW is versatile, so should be our community. In the long run one niche gets boring and people move on a lot faster.
Probemicro
Profile Joined February 2014
3708 Posts
December 08 2014 16:00 GMT
#19
On December 08 2014 23:34 True_Spike wrote:
Nowadays, BW is dead outside of Korea, unfortunately, and no initiative can bring it back. It's just a matter of (no) popularity amongst current gamers and their mentality. E-sports has grown and now its more about (financial) viability than fun.


Just look at the viewer count of a afreeca streamer compared to a foreigner. BTW do you know that even China players like Zhanhun and fengzi can still attract about a thousand chinese viewers to their streams? Even being on the same playing level as them, trutatcz can barely scratch 50. It speaks a lot about the support in the different national scenes.
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
December 08 2014 17:19 GMT
#20
On December 08 2014 23:10 DarkNetHunter wrote:
Anyone who checks TL is already an internationalized user, so unless they already have personal ties to home country natives who do not have a sufficient enough knowledge of English to browse this website, they won't feel any obligation to interact with their locality in a subforum or alternate website.

Definitely agree with this, considering that's the case for me.

On December 08 2014 19:38 GeckoXp wrote:
Budi's idiotic commentary on GIGA, most notably HATCHERYYYyyyyyyyy

What was the name of that blond guy again?

On December 08 2014 23:46 Cele wrote:
Now you may argue that one can only do so much and we don't have unlimited time to pursue out hobby (broodwar), but i don't think many people are running at "full capacity" so to speak. thus i don't see the risk of users getting lost for the international portal.

It's different for many people. Ever since professional BW's death in Korea (and me working), I have less time but I also increased the diversity of the games that I watch/pay attention to. So not everyone is commited to just one game.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
WardiTV Mondays #77
CranKy Ducklings130
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ViBE215
RuFF_SC2 168
ROOTCatZ 89
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6200
Sea 779
Artosis 686
NaDa 17
Dota 2
monkeys_forever529
NeuroSwarm103
League of Legends
JimRising 586
Counter-Strike
taco 563
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox382
Other Games
summit1g16123
C9.Mang0423
Maynarde135
Mew2King57
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1243
BasetradeTV121
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 61
• davetesta11
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 29
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4752
Other Games
• Scarra1125
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
7h 52m
CranKy Ducklings
21h 52m
WardiTV Team League
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 21h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
BSL
3 days
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.