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On December 02 2013 21:26 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:10 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:57 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 20:53 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:31 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 19:34 Stratos wrote:
Btw. even if Blizzard ends up doing nothing this is bad news for SoSPA anyway. Sonic is soon to be dealing with major companies to sponsor SSL9 and this kind of news won't be very beneficial. It probably wouldn't matter to the sponsors that Savior wasn't and isn't allowed in SoSPA. They might just see some controversial news in the scene and put their hands away.
As you may or may not know, Sonic also requested Savior's participation would be cancelled. He was in one way or another told to go fuck himself by the Chinese organizators. That's also very healthy for the scene. +2 for savior I guess? This is the best and most important post to get from all of this. All of you who support savior in any way are too short-sighted to see what kind of potential problems this might bring to the SOSPA. It's amazing that he's managing to help destroy the BW scene for the second time, this time even before it reached its full potential. I just hope Sonic and SOSPA still manage to give us good news like this even despite this very annoying problem that they could very well do without. But don't get me wrong, just because savior is a bad guy here, doesn't automatically means that KeSPA is a good guy. Unfortunately, there are no good guys here (except Sonic who is not mentioned in this news). In the end, it doesn't really matter that KeSPA is doing this, because savior was already doing harm to potential Sonic's sponsors even without, now increased, media attention. But yeah, as nina said, KeSPA should stay quiet until they host a BW tournament which I somehow doubt will happen, so we need to put all our trust and faith into the Sonic and help him in any way we can. See I don't like savior, but at least he didn't trick me into giving him 120 euro for two piece of shit games and then proceed to kill a game he didn't even make. Anyone or anything that in anyway does anything to harm and/or piss off those cunts in Irvine has my full support, if savior started carrying a sign around with him wherever he went that said FUCK BLIZZARD he would be in a moral sense the best player in our scene right now. So you'd support someone for insulting a company that has barely any impact at the expense of the currently re-growing BW scene? Weird logic. You really think Blizzard should have a say in anything to do with Brood War? It is up to us, the community, to figure out if we should watch/support a tournament with savior in it. Not Blizzard. When did I say anything like that? I didn't. Either way - what us, the foreign community, figures out is mostly irrelevant. What's relevant is what Korea thinks about Savior and that is... Best comments from related news on this topic: +3809 -200 This is so shameless what's the reason for this? Take your responsiblity for breaking Star 1 at once. +2588 -103 Savior's second (adopted) home +2513 -97 It's a shame someone like Savior was a progamer. +2326 -88 Savior conscience boso (I think that's supposed to be "boss") +2291 -98 If Savior really had any conscience he wouldn't participate. ^ and this was before he won the $25,000. China mostly doesn't seem to care but if KeSPA and Blizz opt to gang up on them it's thanks to this atmosphere in Korea that they can do so.
No, what Korea thinks is irrelevant because this is about China.
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On December 02 2013 21:48 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:26 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 21:10 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:57 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 20:53 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:31 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 19:34 Stratos wrote:
Btw. even if Blizzard ends up doing nothing this is bad news for SoSPA anyway. Sonic is soon to be dealing with major companies to sponsor SSL9 and this kind of news won't be very beneficial. It probably wouldn't matter to the sponsors that Savior wasn't and isn't allowed in SoSPA. They might just see some controversial news in the scene and put their hands away.
As you may or may not know, Sonic also requested Savior's participation would be cancelled. He was in one way or another told to go fuck himself by the Chinese organizators. That's also very healthy for the scene. +2 for savior I guess? This is the best and most important post to get from all of this. All of you who support savior in any way are too short-sighted to see what kind of potential problems this might bring to the SOSPA. It's amazing that he's managing to help destroy the BW scene for the second time, this time even before it reached its full potential. I just hope Sonic and SOSPA still manage to give us good news like this even despite this very annoying problem that they could very well do without. But don't get me wrong, just because savior is a bad guy here, doesn't automatically means that KeSPA is a good guy. Unfortunately, there are no good guys here (except Sonic who is not mentioned in this news). In the end, it doesn't really matter that KeSPA is doing this, because savior was already doing harm to potential Sonic's sponsors even without, now increased, media attention. But yeah, as nina said, KeSPA should stay quiet until they host a BW tournament which I somehow doubt will happen, so we need to put all our trust and faith into the Sonic and help him in any way we can. See I don't like savior, but at least he didn't trick me into giving him 120 euro for two piece of shit games and then proceed to kill a game he didn't even make. Anyone or anything that in anyway does anything to harm and/or piss off those cunts in Irvine has my full support, if savior started carrying a sign around with him wherever he went that said FUCK BLIZZARD he would be in a moral sense the best player in our scene right now. So you'd support someone for insulting a company that has barely any impact at the expense of the currently re-growing BW scene? Weird logic. You really think Blizzard should have a say in anything to do with Brood War? It is up to us, the community, to figure out if we should watch/support a tournament with savior in it. Not Blizzard. When did I say anything like that? I didn't. Either way - what us, the foreign community, figures out is mostly irrelevant. What's relevant is what Korea thinks about Savior and that is... Best comments from related news on this topic: +3809 -200 This is so shameless what's the reason for this? Take your responsiblity for breaking Star 1 at once. +2588 -103 Savior's second (adopted) home +2513 -97 It's a shame someone like Savior was a progamer. +2326 -88 Savior conscience boso (I think that's supposed to be "boss") +2291 -98 If Savior really had any conscience he wouldn't participate. ^ and this was before he won the $25,000. China mostly doesn't seem to care but if KeSPA and Blizz opt to gang up on them it's thanks to this atmosphere in Korea that they can do so. No, what Korea thinks is irrelevant because this is about China.
But it's KeSPA asking Blizzard to take action. KeSPA = Korea e-Sports Association, a big player in the scene - whether you like it or not.
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On December 02 2013 21:22 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:10 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:57 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 20:53 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:31 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 19:34 Stratos wrote:
Btw. even if Blizzard ends up doing nothing this is bad news for SoSPA anyway. Sonic is soon to be dealing with major companies to sponsor SSL9 and this kind of news won't be very beneficial. It probably wouldn't matter to the sponsors that Savior wasn't and isn't allowed in SoSPA. They might just see some controversial news in the scene and put their hands away.
As you may or may not know, Sonic also requested Savior's participation would be cancelled. He was in one way or another told to go fuck himself by the Chinese organizators. That's also very healthy for the scene. +2 for savior I guess? This is the best and most important post to get from all of this. All of you who support savior in any way are too short-sighted to see what kind of potential problems this might bring to the SOSPA. It's amazing that he's managing to help destroy the BW scene for the second time, this time even before it reached its full potential. I just hope Sonic and SOSPA still manage to give us good news like this even despite this very annoying problem that they could very well do without. But don't get me wrong, just because savior is a bad guy here, doesn't automatically means that KeSPA is a good guy. Unfortunately, there are no good guys here (except Sonic who is not mentioned in this news). In the end, it doesn't really matter that KeSPA is doing this, because savior was already doing harm to potential Sonic's sponsors even without, now increased, media attention. But yeah, as nina said, KeSPA should stay quiet until they host a BW tournament which I somehow doubt will happen, so we need to put all our trust and faith into the Sonic and help him in any way we can. See I don't like savior, but at least he didn't trick me into giving him 120 euro for two piece of shit games and then proceed to kill a game he didn't even make. Anyone or anything that in anyway does anything to harm and/or piss off those cunts in Irvine has my full support, if savior started carrying a sign around with him wherever he went that said FUCK BLIZZARD he would be in a moral sense the best player in our scene right now. So you'd support someone for insulting a company that has barely any impact at the expense of the currently re-growing BW scene? Weird logic. You really think Blizzard should have a say in anything to do with Brood War? It is up to us, the community, to figure out if we should watch/support a tournament with savior in it. Not Blizzard. What kind of world do you live in? You're angry at a business company for doing business, successfully at that. And you expect community to come to the sensible consensus and agree on something controversial as savior?
So if a company ruins peoples lives and destroys an industry that's OK because they make good profits, and hey, its a business? If an Indian guy swears to never drink Coca-Cola ever again because they poisoned the well in his village and his child is paralyzed for life he is wrong and just being a spiteful little bitch about it?
Anyone who fights against Blizzard is fighting the good fight.
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On December 02 2013 21:56 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:22 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 21:10 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:57 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 20:53 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:31 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 19:34 Stratos wrote:
Btw. even if Blizzard ends up doing nothing this is bad news for SoSPA anyway. Sonic is soon to be dealing with major companies to sponsor SSL9 and this kind of news won't be very beneficial. It probably wouldn't matter to the sponsors that Savior wasn't and isn't allowed in SoSPA. They might just see some controversial news in the scene and put their hands away.
As you may or may not know, Sonic also requested Savior's participation would be cancelled. He was in one way or another told to go fuck himself by the Chinese organizators. That's also very healthy for the scene. +2 for savior I guess? This is the best and most important post to get from all of this. All of you who support savior in any way are too short-sighted to see what kind of potential problems this might bring to the SOSPA. It's amazing that he's managing to help destroy the BW scene for the second time, this time even before it reached its full potential. I just hope Sonic and SOSPA still manage to give us good news like this even despite this very annoying problem that they could very well do without. But don't get me wrong, just because savior is a bad guy here, doesn't automatically means that KeSPA is a good guy. Unfortunately, there are no good guys here (except Sonic who is not mentioned in this news). In the end, it doesn't really matter that KeSPA is doing this, because savior was already doing harm to potential Sonic's sponsors even without, now increased, media attention. But yeah, as nina said, KeSPA should stay quiet until they host a BW tournament which I somehow doubt will happen, so we need to put all our trust and faith into the Sonic and help him in any way we can. See I don't like savior, but at least he didn't trick me into giving him 120 euro for two piece of shit games and then proceed to kill a game he didn't even make. Anyone or anything that in anyway does anything to harm and/or piss off those cunts in Irvine has my full support, if savior started carrying a sign around with him wherever he went that said FUCK BLIZZARD he would be in a moral sense the best player in our scene right now. So you'd support someone for insulting a company that has barely any impact at the expense of the currently re-growing BW scene? Weird logic. You really think Blizzard should have a say in anything to do with Brood War? It is up to us, the community, to figure out if we should watch/support a tournament with savior in it. Not Blizzard. What kind of world do you live in? You're angry at a business company for doing business, successfully at that. And you expect community to come to the sensible consensus and agree on something controversial as savior? So if a company ruins peoples lives and destroys an industry that's OK because they make good profits, and hey, its a business? If an Indian guy swears to never drink Coca-Cola ever again because they poisoned the well in his village and his child is paralyzed for life he is wrong and just being a spiteful little bitch about it? Anyone who fights against Blizzard is fighting the good fight.
I already said I'm generally not very appreciative of Blizzard and regarding this I'd have to wait and see how far Blizzard goes with this to make an opinion on the matter.
What I do know is that regardless of the past, savior's presence was hurting the neo BW scene more than Blizzard did in the last year or so, so in that aspect, I would be happier if Savior was gone rather than if Blizzard was gone.. because it basically was gone up until now. So again, I don't understand why you'd support someone to insult a company who didn't do shit for or against BW in the last year at the expense of the BW scene itself. But it's your weird logic, feel free to stick by it.
Oh, didn't notice you were replying to 2pac.. nevermind the first paragraph then.
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i recall the scene doing fine 2011/2012, in general it stabilized after the match fixing.
the biggest offenders are Blizzard and KeSPA. Savior is just an easy target.
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lol guys chill. as if a chinese company would give a fuck what Blizzard or KeSPA says. lololol
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Croatia9547 Posts
On December 02 2013 21:56 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:22 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 21:10 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:57 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 20:53 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:31 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 19:34 Stratos wrote:
Btw. even if Blizzard ends up doing nothing this is bad news for SoSPA anyway. Sonic is soon to be dealing with major companies to sponsor SSL9 and this kind of news won't be very beneficial. It probably wouldn't matter to the sponsors that Savior wasn't and isn't allowed in SoSPA. They might just see some controversial news in the scene and put their hands away.
As you may or may not know, Sonic also requested Savior's participation would be cancelled. He was in one way or another told to go fuck himself by the Chinese organizators. That's also very healthy for the scene. +2 for savior I guess? This is the best and most important post to get from all of this. All of you who support savior in any way are too short-sighted to see what kind of potential problems this might bring to the SOSPA. It's amazing that he's managing to help destroy the BW scene for the second time, this time even before it reached its full potential. I just hope Sonic and SOSPA still manage to give us good news like this even despite this very annoying problem that they could very well do without. But don't get me wrong, just because savior is a bad guy here, doesn't automatically means that KeSPA is a good guy. Unfortunately, there are no good guys here (except Sonic who is not mentioned in this news). In the end, it doesn't really matter that KeSPA is doing this, because savior was already doing harm to potential Sonic's sponsors even without, now increased, media attention. But yeah, as nina said, KeSPA should stay quiet until they host a BW tournament which I somehow doubt will happen, so we need to put all our trust and faith into the Sonic and help him in any way we can. See I don't like savior, but at least he didn't trick me into giving him 120 euro for two piece of shit games and then proceed to kill a game he didn't even make. Anyone or anything that in anyway does anything to harm and/or piss off those cunts in Irvine has my full support, if savior started carrying a sign around with him wherever he went that said FUCK BLIZZARD he would be in a moral sense the best player in our scene right now. So you'd support someone for insulting a company that has barely any impact at the expense of the currently re-growing BW scene? Weird logic. You really think Blizzard should have a say in anything to do with Brood War? It is up to us, the community, to figure out if we should watch/support a tournament with savior in it. Not Blizzard. What kind of world do you live in? You're angry at a business company for doing business, successfully at that. And you expect community to come to the sensible consensus and agree on something controversial as savior? So if a company ruins peoples lives and destroys an industry that's OK because they make good profits, and hey, its a business? If an Indian guy swears to never drink Coca-Cola ever again because they poisoned the well in his village and his child is paralyzed for life he is wrong and just being a spiteful little bitch about it? Anyone who fights against Blizzard is fighting the good fight.
I'm really having a hard time following your line of logic. My comment about Blizzard being successful business was in reference to your post when you said that they "tricked" you into spending 120 euros on their new games.
Look, I'm the last person to defend Blizzard, but your grasp on the whole issue of professional BW's downfall and current state of BW scene is very poor, so saying things likeif savior started carrying a sign around with him wherever he went that said FUCK BLIZZARD he would be in a moral sense the best player in our scene right now. is extremely ignorant.
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The fuck is Blizzard even supposed to do, ban their IP from Bnet? They have no ability to control the BW scene.
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United Kingdom1717 Posts
KeSpa need to butt out. This is not their business. They lost their right to any input the day they binned BW and ran, siding with the bully. Any Blizz involvement now is just bad. Nothing else.
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The K in KeSPA doesn't stand for China so I'm not sure what they are expecting here besides continuing to fan a tiring fire of controversy.
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Hungary11305 Posts
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general.
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On December 02 2013 22:37 Aesop wrote:
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general.
How is it a good move by KeSPA to randomly throw shit at the organizers? I understand why they loathe savior, just like the rest of us do. I don't quite get how and why the also randomly throw dirt in other directions, see what Stratos wrote about Iloveoov's statements. They never acted like they would support eSports on a more global scale and they shouldn't try to do that now. I wonder if all the supposedly big sponsors would've read up on savior being in china in the first place, if it wasn't for such a huge PR stunt. I really don't get why they're so super butthurt all of a sudden, given that they can't possibly gain ANYTHING from this move, but to hurt EVERYTHING and EVERYONE losely connected to savior - which apparently includes SOSPA. Yah, great thing for sure. Blizzard and KeSPA can go fuck off, they decided to do different things, so they should either come back or leave altogether.
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Kespa, never missing an opportunity to show how amateurish they are.
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On December 02 2013 22:13 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:56 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 21:22 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 21:10 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:57 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 20:53 zeo wrote:On December 02 2013 20:31 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 19:34 Stratos wrote:
Btw. even if Blizzard ends up doing nothing this is bad news for SoSPA anyway. Sonic is soon to be dealing with major companies to sponsor SSL9 and this kind of news won't be very beneficial. It probably wouldn't matter to the sponsors that Savior wasn't and isn't allowed in SoSPA. They might just see some controversial news in the scene and put their hands away.
As you may or may not know, Sonic also requested Savior's participation would be cancelled. He was in one way or another told to go fuck himself by the Chinese organizators. That's also very healthy for the scene. +2 for savior I guess? This is the best and most important post to get from all of this. All of you who support savior in any way are too short-sighted to see what kind of potential problems this might bring to the SOSPA. It's amazing that he's managing to help destroy the BW scene for the second time, this time even before it reached its full potential. I just hope Sonic and SOSPA still manage to give us good news like this even despite this very annoying problem that they could very well do without. But don't get me wrong, just because savior is a bad guy here, doesn't automatically means that KeSPA is a good guy. Unfortunately, there are no good guys here (except Sonic who is not mentioned in this news). In the end, it doesn't really matter that KeSPA is doing this, because savior was already doing harm to potential Sonic's sponsors even without, now increased, media attention. But yeah, as nina said, KeSPA should stay quiet until they host a BW tournament which I somehow doubt will happen, so we need to put all our trust and faith into the Sonic and help him in any way we can. See I don't like savior, but at least he didn't trick me into giving him 120 euro for two piece of shit games and then proceed to kill a game he didn't even make. Anyone or anything that in anyway does anything to harm and/or piss off those cunts in Irvine has my full support, if savior started carrying a sign around with him wherever he went that said FUCK BLIZZARD he would be in a moral sense the best player in our scene right now. So you'd support someone for insulting a company that has barely any impact at the expense of the currently re-growing BW scene? Weird logic. You really think Blizzard should have a say in anything to do with Brood War? It is up to us, the community, to figure out if we should watch/support a tournament with savior in it. Not Blizzard. What kind of world do you live in? You're angry at a business company for doing business, successfully at that. And you expect community to come to the sensible consensus and agree on something controversial as savior? So if a company ruins peoples lives and destroys an industry that's OK because they make good profits, and hey, its a business? If an Indian guy swears to never drink Coca-Cola ever again because they poisoned the well in his village and his child is paralyzed for life he is wrong and just being a spiteful little bitch about it? Anyone who fights against Blizzard is fighting the good fight. I'm really having a hard time following your line of logic. My comment about Blizzard being successful business was in reference to your post when you said that they "tricked" you into spending 120 euros on their new games. Look, I'm the last person to defend Blizzard, but your grasp on the whole issue of professional BW's downfall and current state of BW scene is very poor, so saying things like Show nested quote +if savior started carrying a sign around with him wherever he went that said FUCK BLIZZARD he would be in a moral sense the best player in our scene right now. is extremely ignorant.
No, I understand what you are saying. Its just that any mention of Blizzard having anything to do with controlling the BW scene makes my blood boil.
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Netherlands5701 Posts
I'd love to hear SDM's opinion on this matter :D
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On December 02 2013 22:37 Aesop wrote:
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general.
There is no doubt that having SaviOr playing in BW open is not a great idea.
The question is why and how an organization that doesn't hold BW tournaments anymore and has completely disengaged from the scene feels untitled to tell organizers who should and shouldn't play. This is completely ridiculous.
Now, just one more thing. I think everybody, and especially Kespa is happy to be able to blame SaviOr and co for the downfall of BW. Thing is, I don't believe one minute that the match fixing scandal has anything to do with the end of the scene. It's more convenient to say "OH THE BAD GUYS, THERE, IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF THEM" than to admit that BW disappeared because Kespa thought SC2 was a more profitable opportunity.
Kespa should logically not care and not bother about whatever SaviOr wants to do with what remains of his career in an area the organization has left. The only reason they do is for their public image; let's face it, SC2 is not a great game compared to the original, and many people, starting with me, are fairly bitter that Kespa just disengaged because the whole SC2 thing had become trendy.
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Baa?21247 Posts
Has Blizzard even responded/acknowledged this complaint at all, or is KeSPA just talking to hear itself talk right now?
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On December 02 2013 23:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 22:37 Aesop wrote:
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general. There is no doubt that having SaviOr playing in BW open is not a great idea. The question is why and how an organization that doesn't hold BW tournaments anymore and has completely disengaged from the scene feels untitled to tell organizers who should and shouldn't play. This is completely ridiculous. Now, just one more thing. I think everybody, and especially Kespa is happy to be able to blame SaviOr and co for the downfall of BW. Thing is, I don't believe one minute that the match fixing scandal has anything to do with the end of the scene. It's more convenient to say "OH THE BAD GUYS, THERE, IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF THEM" than to admit that BW disappeared because Kespa thought SC2 was a more profitable opportunity. Kespa should logically not care and not bother about whatever SaviOr wants to do with what remains of his career in an area the organization has left. The only reason they do is for their public image; let's face it, SC2 is not a great game compared to the original, and many people, starting with me, are fairly bitter that Kespa just disengaged because the whole SC2 thing had become trendy.
Exactly. Although Savior and the other guys damaged the popularity of bw (i hope they burn in hell for that) it wasnt the reason why bw pros had to switch to sc2 (iam glad that some of them left sc2).
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Actually it makes a lot of sense to ask Blizzard to get someone else to stop Saviour.
Most sports have a professional body in each country, and then an overarching worldwide council or similar.
In Blizzard games, Blizzard is the overarching council, and Kespa is the Korean professional body. They are asking Blizzard to make worldwide their own internal bans for players.
The same would happen in many other competitions, where if someone is sanctioned by an individual body, that punishment (depending on agreements between bodies) would be upheld in other countries because of agreements.
Now, in e-Sports, we don't currently have such as system, because it's younger and less organised, but Kespa are basically saying "we think that if we ban someone, they should be banned everywhere. As you (Blizzard) are the gatekeeper, you will have to uphold such bans. Please uphold our ban".
Of course, when China doesn't give a damn, not much can be achieved, but the concept of what Kespa are doing by asking Blizzard is accepted in most other sports.
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hm sounds like Kespa has some interest to pick up BW again if they try to get rid of the match fixers. Or they are scared that someone might think, they can survive if they try to do it in one of Kespa's current games.
Either way don't know if much can be done there, but I doubt BW can get past a certain point as long as Savior is still around. I think right now is the best moment to get rid of Savior though without hurting the BW scene to much.
But Imo they should do what they think is best for their scene. I'll never forgive him anyway, so I don't really care.
And I still think Sc2 had more of an positive effect on BW then a negative one, especially internationally. But I also don't count the quarrel about Money at the release of Sc2 related.
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EPT
