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On December 02 2013 23:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Has Blizzard even responded/acknowledged this complaint at all, or is KeSPA just talking to hear itself talk right now?
Would you think KeSPA wouldn't discuss this beforehand with Blizz?
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Baa?21245 Posts
On December 02 2013 23:29 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 23:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Has Blizzard even responded/acknowledged this complaint at all, or is KeSPA just talking to hear itself talk right now? Would you think KeSPA wouldn't discuss this beforehand with Blizz?
Since it's KeSPA, yes lol.
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Croatia9540 Posts
On December 02 2013 22:47 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 22:37 Aesop wrote:
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general. How is it a good move by KeSPA to randomly throw shit at the organizers? I understand why they loathe savior, just like the rest of us do. I don't quite get how and why the also randomly throw dirt in other directions, see what Stratos wrote about Iloveoov's statements. They never acted like they would support eSports on a more global scale and they shouldn't try to do that now. I wonder if all the supposedly big sponsors would've read up on savior being in china in the first place, if it wasn't for such a huge PR stunt. I really don't get why they're so super butthurt all of a sudden, given that they can't possibly gain ANYTHING from this move, but to hurt EVERYTHING and EVERYONE losely connected to savior - which apparently includes SOSPA. Yah, great thing for sure. Blizzard and KeSPA can go fuck off, they decided to do different things, so they should either come back or leave altogether.
I don't think he was saying that it's a good move by KeSPA, but rather just provided an explanation on why they might have done it anyways. You're right on your other points though, and I actually wouldn't be surprised if KeSPA did this on purpose to increase the media attention of savior's participation in Chinese events in a way to discredit the existing BW scene, no matter how small it is, and screw up the potential sponsorship of SOSPA events.
On December 02 2013 23:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 22:37 Aesop wrote:
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general. Thing is, I don't believe one minute that the match fixing scandal has anything to do with the end of the scene. It's more convenient to say "OH THE BAD GUYS, THERE, IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF THEM" than to admit that BW disappeared because Kespa thought SC2 was a more profitable opportunity.
Thing is, it doesn't matter what you believe or not. It matters what korean public and potential sponsors believe and from I've seen, most of them disagree with you.
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On December 02 2013 23:34 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 23:29 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 23:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Has Blizzard even responded/acknowledged this complaint at all, or is KeSPA just talking to hear itself talk right now? Would you think KeSPA wouldn't discuss this beforehand with Blizz? Since it's KeSPA, yes lol.
On December 02 2013 19:08 BoxvsYellow wrote:For more details, here's the translation of the entire Korean news article stating the incident. The victory of Ma JaeYoon (Savior) in the Chinese starcraft championship, the player who has been charged with a year long sentence and two years of probation for the Starcraft Match Fixing Scandal, has recently became the controversy, KesPa has not only taken away Ma's eligibility as a professional plyer, but the organization also has banned Ma from any E-sports related events. On December 1st, 2013, after participating with his Chinese teammate, Ma has won 15,000 Yuan from the Starcraft 1 championship held by the Chinese online media called "SCNTV" Although he was officially invited by the administration staffs of the championship and such event was "for the show" instead of the competition, it is hard to igore the fact that he acted as a professional player. It is suspected that the championship was held without the approval of Blizzard. On December 2nd, KesPa staff has stated "Blizzard did not know about Ma's participation in the tournament at all. Blizzard is currently under their investigation regarding the championship. It seems that the championship was held without Blizzard's approval." Any championship that involves Blizzard's game must gain the approval from Blizzard regarding the license. Article: http://mbn.mk.co.kr/pages/news/newsView.php?category=mbn00012&news_seq_no=1566523
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Baa?21245 Posts
On December 02 2013 23:36 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 23:34 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On December 02 2013 23:29 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 23:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Has Blizzard even responded/acknowledged this complaint at all, or is KeSPA just talking to hear itself talk right now? Would you think KeSPA wouldn't discuss this beforehand with Blizz? Since it's KeSPA, yes lol. Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 19:08 BoxvsYellow wrote:For more details, here's the translation of the entire Korean news article stating the incident. The victory of Ma JaeYoon (Savior) in the Chinese starcraft championship, the player who has been charged with a year long sentence and two years of probation for the Starcraft Match Fixing Scandal, has recently became the controversy, KesPa has not only taken away Ma's eligibility as a professional plyer, but the organization also has banned Ma from any E-sports related events. On December 1st, 2013, after participating with his Chinese teammate, Ma has won 15,000 Yuan from the Starcraft 1 championship held by the Chinese online media called "SCNTV" Although he was officially invited by the administration staffs of the championship and such event was "for the show" instead of the competition, it is hard to igore the fact that he acted as a professional player. It is suspected that the championship was held without the approval of Blizzard. On December 2nd, KesPa staff has stated "Blizzard did not know about Ma's participation in the tournament at all. Blizzard is currently under their investigation regarding the championship. It seems that the championship was held without Blizzard's approval." Any championship that involves Blizzard's game must gain the approval from Blizzard regarding the license. Article: http://mbn.mk.co.kr/pages/news/newsView.php?category=mbn00012&news_seq_no=1566523
There is nothing from Blizzard there, it's only KeSPA saying stuff and claiming Blizzard is doing stuff.
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
Does blizzard even have any hold in China?
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If the Chinese tournament didn't want to shoot themselves in the foot from the controversy of inviting Savior, then they shouldn't have invited him in the first place.
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On December 02 2013 23:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 23:36 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 23:34 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On December 02 2013 23:29 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 23:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Has Blizzard even responded/acknowledged this complaint at all, or is KeSPA just talking to hear itself talk right now? Would you think KeSPA wouldn't discuss this beforehand with Blizz? Since it's KeSPA, yes lol. On December 02 2013 19:08 BoxvsYellow wrote:For more details, here's the translation of the entire Korean news article stating the incident. The victory of Ma JaeYoon (Savior) in the Chinese starcraft championship, the player who has been charged with a year long sentence and two years of probation for the Starcraft Match Fixing Scandal, has recently became the controversy, KesPa has not only taken away Ma's eligibility as a professional plyer, but the organization also has banned Ma from any E-sports related events. On December 1st, 2013, after participating with his Chinese teammate, Ma has won 15,000 Yuan from the Starcraft 1 championship held by the Chinese online media called "SCNTV" Although he was officially invited by the administration staffs of the championship and such event was "for the show" instead of the competition, it is hard to igore the fact that he acted as a professional player. It is suspected that the championship was held without the approval of Blizzard. On December 2nd, KesPa staff has stated "Blizzard did not know about Ma's participation in the tournament at all. Blizzard is currently under their investigation regarding the championship. It seems that the championship was held without Blizzard's approval." Any championship that involves Blizzard's game must gain the approval from Blizzard regarding the license. Article: http://mbn.mk.co.kr/pages/news/newsView.php?category=mbn00012&news_seq_no=1566523 There is nothing from Blizzard there, it's only KeSPA saying stuff and claiming Blizzard is doing stuff.
Fair enough, Kespa asks Blizz to do stuff and conveniently Blizz is doing stuff.
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Baa?21245 Posts
On December 02 2013 23:40 Nerevar wrote:
If the Chinese tournament didn't want to shoot themselves in the foot from the controversy of inviting Savior, then they shouldn't have invited him in the first place.
Savior was the headliner of the tournament and the fans/viewers loved it. Trust me, SCNTV does not regret inviting Savior one bit and as far as they're concerned, the tournament was a resounding success.
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On December 02 2013 23:41 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 23:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On December 02 2013 23:36 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 23:34 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On December 02 2013 23:29 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 23:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Has Blizzard even responded/acknowledged this complaint at all, or is KeSPA just talking to hear itself talk right now? Would you think KeSPA wouldn't discuss this beforehand with Blizz? Since it's KeSPA, yes lol. On December 02 2013 19:08 BoxvsYellow wrote:For more details, here's the translation of the entire Korean news article stating the incident. The victory of Ma JaeYoon (Savior) in the Chinese starcraft championship, the player who has been charged with a year long sentence and two years of probation for the Starcraft Match Fixing Scandal, has recently became the controversy, KesPa has not only taken away Ma's eligibility as a professional plyer, but the organization also has banned Ma from any E-sports related events. On December 1st, 2013, after participating with his Chinese teammate, Ma has won 15,000 Yuan from the Starcraft 1 championship held by the Chinese online media called "SCNTV" Although he was officially invited by the administration staffs of the championship and such event was "for the show" instead of the competition, it is hard to igore the fact that he acted as a professional player. It is suspected that the championship was held without the approval of Blizzard. On December 2nd, KesPa staff has stated "Blizzard did not know about Ma's participation in the tournament at all. Blizzard is currently under their investigation regarding the championship. It seems that the championship was held without Blizzard's approval." Any championship that involves Blizzard's game must gain the approval from Blizzard regarding the license. Article: http://mbn.mk.co.kr/pages/news/newsView.php?category=mbn00012&news_seq_no=1566523 There is nothing from Blizzard there, it's only KeSPA saying stuff and claiming Blizzard is doing stuff. Fair enough, Kespa asks Blizz to do stuff and conveniently Blizz is doing stuff.
What "stuff" is Blizzard doing? I see Kespa saying that they're "looking into it," much like I'm "looking into" the work I'm supposed to be doing right now.
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I like how Savior is being bashed for having won a game that he was convicted for intentionally losing it to make money. a little Ironic 
K&B
haha it sounds like a fast food joint.
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On December 02 2013 23:56 Hot_Ice wrote:
Hi what is matchfix guy?
savior for mathfixing in the pro scene back in the day.
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Wtf KeSPA really? You abandoned it! So stay the fuck away pls! K? THnx
Damn they just wanna mess things up...
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On December 02 2013 23:35 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 22:47 GeckoXp wrote:On December 02 2013 22:37 Aesop wrote:
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general. How is it a good move by KeSPA to randomly throw shit at the organizers? I understand why they loathe savior, just like the rest of us do. I don't quite get how and why the also randomly throw dirt in other directions, see what Stratos wrote about Iloveoov's statements. They never acted like they would support eSports on a more global scale and they shouldn't try to do that now. I wonder if all the supposedly big sponsors would've read up on savior being in china in the first place, if it wasn't for such a huge PR stunt. I really don't get why they're so super butthurt all of a sudden, given that they can't possibly gain ANYTHING from this move, but to hurt EVERYTHING and EVERYONE losely connected to savior - which apparently includes SOSPA. Yah, great thing for sure. Blizzard and KeSPA can go fuck off, they decided to do different things, so they should either come back or leave altogether. I don't think he was saying that it's a good move by KeSPA, but rather just provided an explanation on why they might have done it anyways. You're right on your other points though, and I actually wouldn't be surprised if KeSPA did this on purpose to increase the media attention of savior's participation in Chinese events in a way to discredit the existing BW scene, no matter how small it is, and screw up the potential sponsorship of SOSPA events. Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 23:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 02 2013 22:37 Aesop wrote:
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general. Thing is, I don't believe one minute that the match fixing scandal has anything to do with the end of the scene. It's more convenient to say "OH THE BAD GUYS, THERE, IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF THEM" than to admit that BW disappeared because Kespa thought SC2 was a more profitable opportunity. Thing is, it doesn't matter what you believe or not. It matters what korean public and potential sponsors believe and from I've seen, most of them disagree with you.
. Because it's easier (we shut it down because we make moar money with SC2, even if it's not really good: not sexy),
. Because it's more dramatic, and people are silly and love drama (the bad guys cheated and the scene was destroyed: more sexy that: nobody cared anymore with the release of SC2, we couldn't find sponsors and anyway, SC2 looked like a promising market while BW had been in decline for years)
. And because that's what they are being told (Kespa headquarter: err guys, let's make them believe it's because of that zerg guy, so we don't have to admit it's a business matter and no one cares about the hardcore BW fans).
Now, if we talk about beliefs
. Do you think Kespa would have carried on with BW if SaviOr hadn't cheated? I can't believe you are that naive.
. Do you think the fact that the fact BW disappeared JUST when SC2 came out is a coincidence?
So what, are you saying in fact the stage shut down because of the match fixing stuff, but somewhat it happened simultaneously than the release of SC2. And also when Blizzard wanted to sue us to shut the scene up. But yeah, that's accidental. The fact some nerds cheated a year and half before, that's the real reason.
It's not about what I believe. It's about what's logic and what makes no sense whatsoever.
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On December 02 2013 23:51 hasuprotoss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 23:41 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 23:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On December 02 2013 23:36 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 23:34 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On December 02 2013 23:29 Stratos wrote:On December 02 2013 23:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Has Blizzard even responded/acknowledged this complaint at all, or is KeSPA just talking to hear itself talk right now? Would you think KeSPA wouldn't discuss this beforehand with Blizz? Since it's KeSPA, yes lol. On December 02 2013 19:08 BoxvsYellow wrote:For more details, here's the translation of the entire Korean news article stating the incident. The victory of Ma JaeYoon (Savior) in the Chinese starcraft championship, the player who has been charged with a year long sentence and two years of probation for the Starcraft Match Fixing Scandal, has recently became the controversy, KesPa has not only taken away Ma's eligibility as a professional plyer, but the organization also has banned Ma from any E-sports related events. On December 1st, 2013, after participating with his Chinese teammate, Ma has won 15,000 Yuan from the Starcraft 1 championship held by the Chinese online media called "SCNTV" Although he was officially invited by the administration staffs of the championship and such event was "for the show" instead of the competition, it is hard to igore the fact that he acted as a professional player. It is suspected that the championship was held without the approval of Blizzard. On December 2nd, KesPa staff has stated "Blizzard did not know about Ma's participation in the tournament at all. Blizzard is currently under their investigation regarding the championship. It seems that the championship was held without Blizzard's approval." Any championship that involves Blizzard's game must gain the approval from Blizzard regarding the license. Article: http://mbn.mk.co.kr/pages/news/newsView.php?category=mbn00012&news_seq_no=1566523 There is nothing from Blizzard there, it's only KeSPA saying stuff and claiming Blizzard is doing stuff. Fair enough, Kespa asks Blizz to do stuff and conveniently Blizz is doing stuff. What "stuff" is Blizzard doing? I see Kespa saying that they're "looking into it," much like I'm "looking into" the work I'm supposed to be doing right now.
This might be a shock to many but I'm not with Blizzard or KeSPA so I don't know  All I'm saying is that this seems more like some kind of a plan for at least media play rather than just random shouting from KeSPA cuz they're bored or butthurt.
Someone mentioned SCNTV also broadcasts SC2 and they'd be hurting that with these 'investigations'. IMO bringing down the BW on SCNTV and only leaving the SC2 part operational doesn't sound so bad for Blizz/KeSPA, considering the scale and success of Asia Open and the SoSPA expansion. Though I don't expect they would/could go so far.
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Baa?21245 Posts
On December 03 2013 00:18 Stratos wrote:
All I'm saying is that this seems more like some kind of a plan for at least media play rather than just random shouting from KeSPA cuz they're bored or butthurt.
Really? Because everything so far points to it being exactly that.
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On December 03 2013 00:22 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 00:18 Stratos wrote:
All I'm saying is that this seems more like some kind of a plan for at least media play rather than just random shouting from KeSPA cuz they're bored or butthurt.
Really? Because everything so far points to it being exactly that.
Everything being the fact that there's a fast confirmation that Blizzard is investigating the matter?
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Croatia9540 Posts
On December 03 2013 00:11 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 23:35 2Pacalypse- wrote:On December 02 2013 22:47 GeckoXp wrote:On December 02 2013 22:37 Aesop wrote:
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general. How is it a good move by KeSPA to randomly throw shit at the organizers? I understand why they loathe savior, just like the rest of us do. I don't quite get how and why the also randomly throw dirt in other directions, see what Stratos wrote about Iloveoov's statements. They never acted like they would support eSports on a more global scale and they shouldn't try to do that now. I wonder if all the supposedly big sponsors would've read up on savior being in china in the first place, if it wasn't for such a huge PR stunt. I really don't get why they're so super butthurt all of a sudden, given that they can't possibly gain ANYTHING from this move, but to hurt EVERYTHING and EVERYONE losely connected to savior - which apparently includes SOSPA. Yah, great thing for sure. Blizzard and KeSPA can go fuck off, they decided to do different things, so they should either come back or leave altogether. I don't think he was saying that it's a good move by KeSPA, but rather just provided an explanation on why they might have done it anyways. You're right on your other points though, and I actually wouldn't be surprised if KeSPA did this on purpose to increase the media attention of savior's participation in Chinese events in a way to discredit the existing BW scene, no matter how small it is, and screw up the potential sponsorship of SOSPA events. On December 02 2013 23:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 02 2013 22:37 Aesop wrote:
I really don't get the hate towards KeSPA and Blizzard (K&B) in this one. Sure, Brood War in its former state does not exist anymore. That's due to a multitude of reasons, SC II and its promotion being one of them, but nobody can deny the blow that the matchfixing scandal dealt to the Brood War scene either. So, Brood War is not what it used to be.
Now, a first argument against K&B appears to be "fck off, what have you done for BW lately, tournament organizers should be able to invite who they want". As 2pacalypse stated, this is short-sighted. Building up a Brood War scene on the back of someone who played a major role in bringing it down due to matchfixing will instantly make it look shady. No good area for sponsors.
Let's try this analogy (take it with a grain of salt, like with any analogy): The Tour de France is finally shut down, due to having a hard time getting sponsors, in particular because of its doping history. Someone starts a rebuild. Lance Armstrong wants to participate. Should he be in, if you want to gain credibility and sponsors for your new cycling league?
Now, the second argument appears to be "fk off, why would YOU have a say in this". From what I gather, Kespa does not understand itself as a Starcraft, but as an Esports organization in general. So this is not about Brood War, it is about Esports in general. It would be the same if Savior wanted to participate in LoL, Dota 2, or World of Tanks - they would ask the tournament organizer not to consider him, since he damaged Esports in general. And who else would request this? They are the ones who banned him, so it's a natural thing for them to ask others to uphold that ban.
Now, assuming Kespa already contacted the organizers, who would they turn to? I don't think it's a glorious idea to invoke Blizzard here, but who else?
I suppose my argument boils down to two things:
a) having Savior around is intrinsically bad for a new Bw scene.
b) Kespa asking others to uphold the ban is not about Brood War in particular, but about E-Sports in general. Thing is, I don't believe one minute that the match fixing scandal has anything to do with the end of the scene. It's more convenient to say "OH THE BAD GUYS, THERE, IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF THEM" than to admit that BW disappeared because Kespa thought SC2 was a more profitable opportunity. Thing is, it doesn't matter what you believe or not. It matters what korean public and potential sponsors believe and from I've seen, most of them disagree with you. . Because it's easier (we shut it down because we make moar money with SC2, even if it's not really good: not sexy), . Because it's more dramatic, and people are silly and love drama (the bad guys cheated and the scene was destroyed: more sexy that: nobody cared anymore with the release of SC2, we couldn't find sponsors and anyway, SC2 looked like a promising market while BW had been in decline for years) . And because that's what they are being told (Kespa headquarter: err guys, let's make them believe it's because of that zerg guy, so we don't have to admit it's a business matter and no one cares about the hardcore BW fans). Now, if we talk about beliefs . Do you think Kespa would have carried on with BW if SaviOr hadn't cheated? I can't believe you are that naive. . Do you think the fact that the fact BW disappeared JUST when SC2 came out is a coincidence? So what, are you saying in fact the stage shut down because of the match fixing stuff, but somewhat it happened simultaneously than the release of SC2. And also when Blizzard wanted to sue us to shut the scene up. But yeah, that's accidental. The fact some nerds cheated a year and half before, that's the real reason. It's not about what I believe. It's about what's logic and what makes no sense whatsoever.
You either have trouble reading or are purposefully misinterpreting my words. You're arguing something that I have not said. Now the last thing I want is to get into this argument with someone who thinks he has it all figured out from his computer chair. But, the point I'm making is that people who have been involved in the BW scene since its inception and who helped make it what it was, think differently than you. So you should direct your "logic" to them, not me.
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Savior crazies and their straw men defenses coming out in full force again. KeSPA does something right for once. Although, as usual, it is too little too late. They should have taken action waaay before.
If anyone thinks that letting a convicted match-fixing broker and confirmed match-fixer (ask Nal_Ra what he thinks about that!) participate in a major BW tournament does not taint the entire scene, then I feel really sorry for his lack of intelligence. It is impossible to reason with people like that. Pete Rose got a lifetime ban for simply betting on his own team to win FFS. Children don't seem to understand how serious this is and try to make irrelevant consequentialist arguments about blame games.
The ball's in your court Blizzard.
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