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BW General Discussion - Page 88

Forum Index > BW General
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Prev 1 86 87 88 89 90 522 Next
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
December 03 2014 12:31 GMT
#1741
woah JD come back to bw x__x

drop eg and search for the balloon river
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66365 Posts
December 03 2014 13:15 GMT
#1742
On December 03 2014 20:11 c3rberUs wrote:
Nah, I think Electric Circuit was quite good. Its maps like Ground Zero, Circuit Breakers, Neo Jade and maybe Empire of the Sun or Sniper Ridge that killed hype.

i think electric circuit was a decent map but when it is in the same pool as circuit breaker, jade and sniper ridge.. no.

ground zero was pretty good i think, empire of the sun and sniper ridge are really meh.

i REALLY hope they go back to more interesting maps. i liked mist but.. so far not much news about it or any of the "new" maps that were announced earlier.
POGGERS
Stratos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic6104 Posts
December 03 2014 13:21 GMT
#1743
On December 03 2014 22:15 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2014 20:11 c3rberUs wrote:
Nah, I think Electric Circuit was quite good. Its maps like Ground Zero, Circuit Breakers, Neo Jade and maybe Empire of the Sun or Sniper Ridge that killed hype.

i think electric circuit was a decent map but when it is in the same pool as circuit breaker, jade and sniper ridge.. no.

ground zero was pretty good i think, empire of the sun and sniper ridge are really meh.

i REALLY hope they go back to more interesting maps. i liked mist but.. so far not much news about it or any of the "new" maps that were announced earlier.

Both LoveTV and HOGN are mostly doing new maps or old remakes these days.
En Taro Violet
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19391 Posts
December 03 2014 13:50 GMT
#1744
On December 03 2014 22:21 Stratos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2014 22:15 konadora wrote:
On December 03 2014 20:11 c3rberUs wrote:
Nah, I think Electric Circuit was quite good. Its maps like Ground Zero, Circuit Breakers, Neo Jade and maybe Empire of the Sun or Sniper Ridge that killed hype.

i think electric circuit was a decent map but when it is in the same pool as circuit breaker, jade and sniper ridge.. no.

ground zero was pretty good i think, empire of the sun and sniper ridge are really meh.

i REALLY hope they go back to more interesting maps. i liked mist but.. so far not much news about it or any of the "new" maps that were announced earlier.

Both LoveTV and HOGN are mostly doing new maps or old remakes these days.

Exactly. Kona, you gotta watch the vods from this: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/LoveTV_Starleague_Season_3_Map_Test_SponLeague

Blitz X being brought back. They must really want Bisu to win more MSLs. Neo Guillotine is pretty sick to. Reminds me of Judgement Day.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES51549 Posts
December 03 2014 14:08 GMT
#1745
can you drop tanks on the fat ridge between the main and natural in neo guillotine?
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11801 Posts
December 03 2014 14:42 GMT
#1746
On December 03 2014 22:15 konadora wrote:
i think electric circuit was a decent map but when it is in the same pool as circuit breaker, jade and sniper ridge.. no.

ground zero was pretty good i think, empire of the sun and sniper ridge are really meh.

I agree.

Mist looks good. They should use GOM Classic S2 map pool but I'm biased for this map pool.
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
December 03 2014 14:53 GMT
#1747
On December 03 2014 15:55 miercat wrote:

The balance discussion is moot, only through lack of perspective:

1) The Korean commentators/players themselves have acknowledged significant imbalances in certain matchups (most notably - ZvT) - not solely dependent on mapmaking.

2)They specifically distinguish between the concept of "balance", and "map making" (implication: the latter is inherently limited in comparison to the former).

3) They specifically state that they are forced to use mapmaking to "balance" matchups, only because they do not have the ability to balance through changing the fundamental elements of the game(only Blizzard can do this).




Prech: Basically about ~10 minutes discussion of SC BW imbalance, particularly ZvT at the time patch 1.08 came out. Old schooler (Z)GoRush discussed how he tried Terran at times, while (T)Flash talks about considering a switch to Zerg in the midst of his struggles. Not particularly in-depth, but perhaps of interest


From a probabilistic logical perspective, it is highly unlikely that the perfect patch occurred over 10 years ago, when there was no knowledge of what modern play would look like(and when modern play is so different). And in fact, this is not the case: Yes mapmaking does address some balance concerns(with regards to statistics and otherwise), to some extent, but it does not address more fundamental imbalances which persist in a more general state(e.g. gameplay, and otherwise).

There are fundamental balance optimizations (patches) that would improve the quality of gameplay overall, with or without accompanying changes in mapmaking(or necessarily, statistical references).

Nice post, great vid. I actually watched it all the way through, very interesting discussion between Flash and the panel.


User was warned for being hilarious
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21247 Posts
December 03 2014 16:43 GMT
#1748
On December 03 2014 15:55 miercat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2014 02:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I hope the OGN invovlement means that we will get a dedicated and active mapmaking team again. A lot of the balance discussion at this point is completely moot since many matchups have become heavily map dependent. For a real revival of the scene there will need to be an incentive for talented mapmakers to return to BW.

Show nested quote +
On December 03 2014 04:58 Stratos wrote:
Balance must be perfect >
Balance can be achieved by maps >
Balance is achieved by maps >
Game is fun >
Look for alternative solutions >
wat


The balance discussion is moot, only through lack of perspective:

1) The Korean commentators/players themselves have acknowledged significant imbalances in certain matchups (most notably - ZvT) - not solely dependent on mapmaking.

2)They specifically distinguish between the concept of "balance", and "map making"(implication: the latter is inherently limited in comparison to the former).

3) They specifically state that they are forced to use mapmaking to "balance" matchups, only because they do not have the ability to balance through changing the fundamental elements of the game(only Blizzard can do this).

Show nested quote +
On November 05 2014 18:55 prech wrote:
Just saw this subbed OGN video posted in another TL forum:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-n5Ls-HkXIQ#t=1396

Basically about ~10 minutes discussion of SC BW imbalance, particularly ZvT at the time patch 1.08 came out. Old schooler (Z)GoRush discussed how he tried Terran at times, while (T)Flash talks about considering a switch to Zerg in the midst of his struggles. Not particularly in-depth, but perhaps of interest


From a probabilistic logical perspective, it is highly unlikely that the perfect patch occurred over 10 years ago, when there was no knowledge of what modern play would look like(and when modern play is so different). And in fact, this is not the case: Yes mapmaking does address some balance concerns(with regards to statistics and otherwise), to some extent, but it does not address more fundamental imbalances which persist in a more general state(e.g. gameplay, and otherwise). There are fundamental balance optimizations (patches) that would improve the quality of gameplay overall, with or without accompanying changes in mapmaking(or necessarily, statistical references).




I am of the firm opinion that T > Z, Z > P, and T = P mostly, giving Terran an inherent advantage in the long run, which has been reflected in the history of the pro scene.

However, I am also of the belief that right now, and for any foreseeable future, these imbalances can be sufficiently addressed with mapmaking. Sometimes map making slips up and we get grossly imbalanced map in one direction or another, but the existence of heavily Z favored maps in ZvT for example proves that mapmaking is more than enough to address the amount of imbalance present.

Adjusting the game on a fundamental level is simply too risky. Accept the lucky accident that gave us a mostly balanced game that can be further tuned with maps and leave it at that IMO.

re: Battle Royal: Source of one of my most embarrassing posts in the history of TL god I'm retarded.
TranslatorBaa!
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-03 19:53:39
December 03 2014 19:50 GMT
#1749
Broodwar balance depends on the maps
-> maps affect balance depending on their layout and terrain
-> terrain kinda sounds like terran
-> terran OP

The only patches I'd like to see on bw would be to modernize the battlenet platform (not sc2 style), solve those latency bugs, the glitched games lobby, maybe put in some sort of auto queue/matchmaking thingy
edit: and remove siege tanks mlm
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
December 03 2014 21:38 GMT
#1750
I probably should know this, but well...
Who is "cbul" on afreeca?
Saw a pretty sick ZvP (Killer vs Cbul) yesterday and i am curious now.
Is there a place where all known accounts are listed?
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66365 Posts
December 04 2014 01:33 GMT
#1751
On December 03 2014 22:50 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2014 22:21 Stratos wrote:
On December 03 2014 22:15 konadora wrote:
On December 03 2014 20:11 c3rberUs wrote:
Nah, I think Electric Circuit was quite good. Its maps like Ground Zero, Circuit Breakers, Neo Jade and maybe Empire of the Sun or Sniper Ridge that killed hype.

i think electric circuit was a decent map but when it is in the same pool as circuit breaker, jade and sniper ridge.. no.

ground zero was pretty good i think, empire of the sun and sniper ridge are really meh.

i REALLY hope they go back to more interesting maps. i liked mist but.. so far not much news about it or any of the "new" maps that were announced earlier.

Both LoveTV and HOGN are mostly doing new maps or old remakes these days.

Exactly. Kona, you gotta watch the vods from this: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/LoveTV_Starleague_Season_3_Map_Test_SponLeague

Blitz X being brought back. They must really want Bisu to win more MSLs. Neo Guillotine is pretty sick to. Reminds me of Judgement Day.

i was thinking of literally new maps U DISAPPOINT ME </3

i knew about the old maps (not guillotine tho) such as the new bifrost having gas in the back expo and being walled 50x by some neutral building haha and blitz x too (though i don't think this was changed)

just that i enjoy seeing fresh new maps in the modern map pool. definitely not complaining about old maps returning though. i really hope to see troy played again someday, that map was craaaay.
POGGERS
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66365 Posts
December 04 2014 01:41 GMT
#1752
Omg I FORGOT MONTY HALL SOMEONE ADD THIS BACK
POGGERS
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-04 01:45:53
December 04 2014 01:45 GMT
#1753
there was a monty hall game where the zerg drone drilled to make a hatchery. pretty sneaky shit

now im not entirely sure if it was zerg
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66365 Posts
December 04 2014 01:57 GMT
#1754
can't remember that game but everyone knows the travesty that is flash vs bisu

that refinery mineral recycling trick omfg too good
POGGERS
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
December 04 2014 01:59 GMT
#1755
yeah, monty hall was one of the sneaky maps
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21247 Posts
December 04 2014 02:19 GMT
#1756
On December 04 2014 10:45 icystorage wrote:
there was a monty hall game where the zerg drone drilled to make a hatchery. pretty sneaky shit

now im not entirely sure if it was zerg


http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/2903_Shine[Name]_vs_Silver

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/4087_BoxeR_vs_Silver

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/7488_GGPlay_vs_Iris
TranslatorBaa!
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66365 Posts
December 04 2014 02:30 GMT
#1757
omg how did i forget that ggplay game

cheep to da rescueee
POGGERS
ArmadA[NaS]
Profile Joined January 2014
United States350 Posts
December 04 2014 04:32 GMT
#1758
On December 04 2014 06:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I probably should know this, but well...
Who is "cbul" on afreeca?
Saw a pretty sick ZvP (Killer vs Cbul) yesterday and i am curious now.
Is there a place where all known accounts are listed?

Cbul is Guemchi. There's a list of known AKA's on liquipedia here.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
December 04 2014 04:48 GMT
#1759
On December 04 2014 13:32 f10eqq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2014 06:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I probably should know this, but well...
Who is "cbul" on afreeca?
Saw a pretty sick ZvP (Killer vs Cbul) yesterday and i am curious now.
Is there a place where all known accounts are listed?

Cbul is Guemchi. There's a list of known AKA's on liquipedia here.

Thanks
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
KDot2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1213 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-06 20:52:31
December 06 2014 20:52 GMT
#1760
Ive been playing a lot of SC2 @ 640 on 1080p but BW is 640x480 not that you all dont know this =)
anyone know what my DPI should be in BW to be the same ?
Prev 1 86 87 88 89 90 522 Next
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