BW General Discussion - Page 3

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vOdToasT

Sweden2870 Posts

September 09 2013 17:26 GMT

#41

On September 10 2013 00:54 s.Q.uelched wrote:

Show nested quote +

And burrow. I also think hallucination in PvT is super underrated.

I won so many games by burrowing a zergling at every expansion in ZvP, lol

Edit: But it costs 100 gas, and you must get it before the Protoss attempts to take a third, so it only works with certain styles and builds. Luckily with the style I usually played, 100 gas at that time for burrow was a good investment.

The_Red_Viper

19533 Posts

September 09 2013 17:35 GMT

#42

Is it still worth to start playing broodwar on some server?
I am more of a casual player (only diamond in sc2) but enjoy the esports scene. I recently started to watch some broodwar on snipealots stream and now i ask myself if it could be enjoyable for me to play it.
My biggest concern is that i am just way too late, cause only the "hardcore" fans play broodwar now and there is no chance in hell to have fun without matchmaking.

kinda a second question: is it worth it to watch the old bw tourneys (osl/msl/proleague) just for the sake of awesome games?
is there a place with all the vods, if possible in english cause i would like to "learn" the matchups through it?

thank u for your help

vOdToasT

Sweden2870 Posts

September 09 2013 18:22 GMT

#43

On September 10 2013 02:35 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Is it still worth to start playing broodwar on some server?
I am more of a casual player (only diamond in sc2) but enjoy the esports scene. I recently started to watch some broodwar on snipealots stream and now i ask myself if it could be enjoyable for me to play it.
My biggest concern is that i am just way too late, cause only the "hardcore" fans play broodwar now and there is no chance in hell to have fun without matchmaking.

kinda a second question: is it worth it to watch the old bw tourneys (osl/msl/proleague) just for the sake of awesome games?
is there a place with all the vods, if possible in english cause i would like to "learn" the matchups through it?

thank u for your help

You're going to lose your first 200 or so games. Since you are only diamond, you'll also have to get better at RTS in general, not just Brood War specifically, in order to start winning. So unless you're serious, and want to appreciate the beauty of the game, you'll have to not care about always losing. Everyone who starts with BW goes through that. I went through it. I managed not because I was a casual gamer, but because I had a drive to improve. So even though I kept losing, it was fine because I got marginally better each time. I survived a little longer, I learned something with every loss.

I considered StarCraft an impossible game. It wasn't about winning, it was about trying to survive for as long as possible, and to do as well as possible. Kind of like arcade games that never end. When I actually started winning, it was unreal. You either need something like that, or to be too casual to care.

But you must understand, that Brood War is better than anything you have ever played. It's beauty is on the level of music, or other art. Its depth is unending. It is magnificent. But, before you can appreciate that, you must get through the skill level at which Brood War does not seem as awesome as it actually is. The better you get, the better the game will seem to you. The more you understand it, the more awe it will inspire.

The_Red_Viper

19533 Posts

September 09 2013 19:22 GMT

#44

Well i think thats the point. I dont think its much fun to have no chance at all for such a long time. I really dont have the time to play broodwar for hours and hours just to slowly be able to enjoy it.
Thats why i think matchmaking is such a great feature of modern games. The thing is i think that broodwar is in itself a game with lots of mechanics that could be actually fun to play with. Well maybe i give it a try

GeckoXp

Germany2016 Posts

September 09 2013 19:35 GMT

#45

On September 10 2013 04:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Well i think thats the point. I dont think its much fun to have no chance at all for such a long time. I really dont have the time to play broodwar for hours and hours just to slowly be able to enjoy it.
Thats why i think matchmaking is such a great feature of modern games. The thing is i think that broodwar is in itself a game with lots of mechanics that could be actually play with. Well maybe i give it a try

People overdo it when they say you will lose the first 200 games. My suggestion: Open the Single Player and play 10-20 games against the CPU to get a general feeling for the mechanics / units. It's different to see them working and to get to play it. Then invest about 2-3 hours to set up Brood War (W-Mode vs. Full, Router, Server & Accounts).

Now, you might either start to ladder, which would end like voddy described it - in dozens of defeats if you don't dodge and always try to play 'upwards'. You need to understand that the huge advantage the classic Battle.net offers lies in its more social aspect. I for one find it a lot easier to chat with people and find channels. This is what you should do if you want to slowly test it. Check the most active channels and try to talk with people. You might run in the standard retards (everywhere), ignore them. Instead focus on Teamliquid, there are dozens of Partner Threads, Skype Groups and obviously the D Rank Teamleagues. These guys will help you improve a lot faster, you might find people on equal skill level. Obviously, the mechanics are indeed a lot more demanding, so try to find some guides on the basic stuff (check Chef's thread and the strategy forum!). You'll find out soon enough that you can still have fun.

Another mistake would be to assume Brood War would be all about competitive ladders like ICCup, FISH or the VS Platform. It's not. You can try to play a bit of 2on2, where the demands are lower, but still 'hard' enough to fit you. 2on2 in BW is different from what I experienced in SCII. You can also give a shot at BGH, Fastest or Micro Tournaments. Don't let them tell you what you want to do, there are other modes as well.

Sources:

Beginner's Portal on LPI
Ver's Guide (long read, but usefull stuff)
Chef's Macro Theory

EchOne

United States2906 Posts

September 09 2013 19:56 GMT

#46

There are many ways to get into BW, and even now there are quite a few players I know who are basically pure beginners. I find that these beginners often feel that they *need* to play real 1v1s, and then get daunted by the enormity of BW, and then get shy of actually playing because it's too difficult, and then never actually play, and then never actually get better. It doesn't help that even when I tell them to play each other because they're the same skill level, they never actually do. At this point I'm resigned to it being a function of pure player initiative. There's plenty of fun to be had for a beginner in BW, but it is a player's choice whether to seek it out.

Witten

United States2094 Posts

September 09 2013 20:05 GMT

#47

This thread is an amazing idea. Samsung will always be Samsung Khan in my heart, us BW people aren't huge fans of change ahaha.

Anyways I got into Brood War in a competitive sense so so late (I saw a neo. G Soulkey game about 3 years ago casted in Korean through TLs VOD section and I fell in love) so now that I pretty much only have Sonic / SOSPA stuff to watch (and now TLS3) I'm trying to catch up on all the great moments that I missed. I'm currently watching Much vs. FBH from an MSL in 2008 on NuketheStar's channel.

The_Red_Viper

19533 Posts

September 09 2013 20:05 GMT

#48

Thank u GeckoXp for your detailed answer. Will definitely check that stuff out and give BW a try

Now to my other question: Is there any source of vods that are casted in english? i really would like to watch the games of the big names and probably fall in love with their play and style (even if it doesnt continue now in sc2)
Well thank u for your help guys.

Witten

United States2094 Posts

September 09 2013 20:17 GMT

#49

On September 10 2013 05:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Thank u GeckoXp for your detailed answer. Will definitely check that stuff out and give BW a try

NuketheStars youtube channel
KlazartSC youtube channel
SayleBW youtube channel (mostly pretty recent stuff though)
Teamliquid.net (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/vods Not casted in English, but you can attempt to make it spoiler free) [Theres also a few torrents that are still active, including a 461 GB MSL Proleague torrent muahaha]
nevake youtube
moletrap youtube

DarkNetHunter

1224 Posts

September 09 2013 20:46 GMT

#50

You can even go back to Day[9]'s original shows which were analysing broodwar strategy in depth, which might make you enjoy certain play styles or watching players more because he goes very much into detail about how and why players chose to do things and the depth of strategy that they planned out for their matches!

The_Red_Viper

19533 Posts

September 09 2013 21:17 GMT

#51

On September 10 2013 05:46 DarkNetHunter wrote:
You can even go back to Day[9]'s original shows which were analysing broodwar strategy in depth, which might make you enjoy certain play styles or watching players more because he goes very much into detail about how and why players chose to do things and the depth of strategy that they planned out for their matches!

ah yeah totally forgot that day9 started with bw daylies :D

ArvickHero

10387 Posts

September 09 2013 21:49 GMT

#52

3v3s are a nice way to build up your mechanics and understanding while still playing in a relaxed fun environment (and winning some)

BigFan

TLADT24920 Posts

September 09 2013 23:05 GMT

#53

On September 10 2013 05:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Thank u GeckoXp for your detailed answer. Will definitely check that stuff out and give BW a try

Honestly, aside from a few exceptions, I almost always loved watching Korean vods over english ones. I might not understand what they are saying but man is the energy there. You can feel it in their voice and that's all I need. As for playing, from my personal experience, I only started playing 1v1(previously BGH, fastest possible map ever etc... way back a bit after release) within the last year. At first I used to lose to lings because I can't wall off properly with Terran then eventually I started to be a bit more careful, put an SCV or two if I suspect something on my ramp to block and keep making marines etc... After playing several hundred games quite casually and some which I lost terribly etc... I got a feel for the game. I guess I became more comfortable with it. I started becoming more aggressive, trying to macro better, etc...

At this point in time, I'm too busy so I barely play but even when I go to play a game or two, I feel that my mechanics haven't deteriorated that badly when considering how mechanical BW is. I guess my point is, you'll lose to some easy stuff early on and wonder why or how but then you'll adapt to it, change you strat and start defending then slowly but surely, you'll start to do more stuff, get faster and enjoy the game. Just give it a bit of time at the start and don't worry about losing. BTW, I'm only a plat terran in SCII when I last stopped talking it seriously(seriously as in, stop trying to improve lol) but I still can play well enough against D players and survive against D+ although after that, it's a roflstomp XD

Esp1noza

Russian Federation481 Posts

September 10 2013 16:21 GMT

#54

The_Red_Viper I don't agree with "you will lose the first 200 games", not even close. You can play some games vs computer and go straight to http://www.iccup.com/. There is no matchmaking, but you can choose opponents close to your skill level. Players are ranked from E(weakest) to A+(strongest), you start as D. Play vs D- and E players, I guess you can compete vs them with little practice given you diamond in sc2.

traceurling

United States1240 Posts

September 10 2013 16:26 GMT

#55

The way I improved mostly was I found a friend just slightly above my skill level and just played against him a lot

also playing against one person a lot is an interesting experience c:

EchOne

United States2906 Posts

September 10 2013 16:49 GMT

#56

Yea when I first found out about the pro scene I really only played in a tiny circle of myself and 2 other friends. After a couple years of that (with plenty of pro VODs and streams) I was able to... not go on 200 game losing streaks vs random people.