[M] Freakling's map thread: New maps - Page 4

HaFnium

United Kingdom1074 Posts

March 17 2015 00:46 GMT

#61

Very good looking maps with lots of innovations, I think more different maps would be the way forward for BW now that the meta-game is relatively static. .I'm sure they'd play well too. You are making them look like a form of practical art work.
I also like how you use curves a lot in your map...

Atlantis looks like Dahlia of Jungle by the way (just in appereances)

PS: Also Like How You name the maps!

Greg_J

China4409 Posts

March 20 2015 19:29 GMT

#62

Thanks for all the hard work.

Filco

France154 Posts

March 21 2015 20:55 GMT

#63

Where are the dl links please?

Absolutely perfect maps as always ! great work! Gonna play on it for sure!

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

March 22 2015 12:57 GMT

#64

On March 22 2015 05:55 Filco wrote:
Where are the dl links please?

Absolutely perfect maps as always ! great work! Gonna play on it for sure!

Sorry, kind of forgot to add those somehow. They are there now.

AleXoundOS

Georgia457 Posts

March 22 2015 13:49 GMT

#65

Nice

Shinrei

United States240 Posts

April 01 2015 23:35 GMT

#66

You should put all of the maps into a single zip file so that we can all play them forever and ever.

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

April 02 2015 00:06 GMT

#67

Yeah, but said ZIP file would probably end up being just another thing that I do not quite manage to keep updated properly...

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

April 03 2015 20:16 GMT

#68

Complete ramp catalogue

Displays terrain level properties on subtile level for each ramps in the BroodWar tile palettes (manually tested by unit vision test).
only proper, non-trivial ramps are listed
(proper meaning ramps that actually connect terrain types of different terrain levels,
non-trivial signifying ramps that are actually made up of (sub)tiles with different terrain level properties
[note that these characteristics are not necessarily synonymous!] ).

Quick Fact Sheet:

Terrain levels: Broodwar distinguishes between three terrain levels: low, medium and high ground.
Tiles and subtiles: Tiles are the basic elements making up a BroodWar map. Map dimensions are given in tiles. Each tile is represented by a 32x32 pixel sprite in-game. Each tile is made up of 4x4 subtiles, which are 8x8 pixels each.
Unit position: A unit is considered to be on a certain pixel/subtile/tile, if the intersecting point of the diagonals of its collision box (rounded up) is on top of that pixel/subtile/tile.
Tile and subtile properties: All the basic gameplay elements, like unit movement, projectile hit chance and vision, are influenced by tile properties. Some properties, like buildability, are tile properties, others, like walkability are subtile properties.
Terrain level is also a subtile property.
Terrain leveleffects:
If two ranged ground units are on different terrain levels, the unit on the lower level only has a 136/256 (53.125%) chance to hit the unit on the higher terrain level (as opposed to 255/256 (~99.6%) on even ground) (reference on BWAPI homepage; uses designators low, high, very high instead of low, medium, high).
Ground units on one terran level only have about one tile far vision onto any higher level terrain.

Legend:
[image loading]

Small deviations between left and right variant in the shape of the unwalkable edges.

Jungle/Badlands dirt ramps:
[image loading]

Probably your most common ramps, shared between Jungle and Badlands tilesets, easily extendible and invertible, every mappers bread and butter overall ; the right ramp is simply an exact mirror of the left one (though the infamous ramp stack bug only ever plagues left ramps, as it seems)

Ash World dirt ramps:
[image loading]

Pretty straight forward, easy to extend and various inverted versions are available as well.

Desert dirt ramps:
right: [image loading]

Left:

Holy crap, I mean, do you see that asymmetry. Seems like Blizzard not only had their intern on the job of manually editing this but it turns out the intern was also dumb, dead-drunk, and an escaped lab-monkey. This actually has some annoying consequences for mappers, which I may address in another dedicated troubleshooting article about actually doing ramps yourself...
Sorry for the ugly colours, but as basic theory of colour tells us, green overlay over reddish base texture gives us, well, yellow...ish puke or something. So, no that's not some ominous fourth terrain level right there.

Twilight dirt ramps:
right: [image loading]

left:

Some deviations between the left and right variant in the shapes of the unwalkable edges.
Easy enough to extend, but inversions are basically not possible, but matters like the actual practical application of this stuff warrant a whole article (and maybe a few more) of their own, so I won't go into any details here, but this is the reason why practically these haven't really been seen in use since Ride of Valkyries.
Oh, and it seems like I actually managed to mark the transitional tiles wrong... But I don't really see that warranting to do the graphics all over again...

Ice World snow ramps:
left: [image loading]

right:

Also some asymmetries in the unwalkable areas between these two. Same limitations as for Twilight Dirt ramps apply here.

Space Platform high platform ramps:
[image loading]

Straight forward, the right one is again just an exact mirroring.

Space Platform low platform ramps:
[image loading]

Also pretty straight forward
Not as commonly used, but they can actually be extended and even inverted with acceptable outcomes, though well known maps like Match Point or Circuit Breakers have explicitly not made use of the latter possibility.

Space Platform elevated catwalk ramps:
[image loading]

These are much tighter than the normal space platform ramps. Hard to extend and impossible to invert.

Badlands structure ramps:
[image loading]

These are really tight, so you can block them with a single unit without a problem. Inversion and even extensions are not really feasible for these.

Jungle temple & high temple ramps
[image loading]

Wait, Freaky, Temple and High Temple ramps? You must be mistaken, those could not possibly be the same, given that they are on different terrain levels?
Yes, you are right, there is a mistake. Unfortunately it's not mine: Those really are the same. So do not even think about using High Temple ramps in a melee map. It's just building some massive bugs into your map.
Actually, do not use these at all, because as nice as they may look, they are unwieldy and basically impossible to extend or invert, which makes their practical usefulness basically non-existent.

Ice World outpost/high outpost ramps:
right: [image loading]

left:

One would imagine that, upon porting the Jungle original tileset to the BroodWar tilesets, those Blizzard guys would have actually fixed an obvious bug or two in the terrain palettes.
Wrong.
They actually reinvented the high-ground-ramp-has-low-ground-terrain-levels bug for these ones... Don't ask me why... So, in short, do not use the high ground version of these. Also, do not try to invert these, there are less futile tasks your time is better spent on.

Desert compound/high compound ramps:
right: [image loading]

left:

I could go on about reintroducing bugs that some one, somewhere, at some point, should have really noticed (mind, old Blizzard maps actually use these kind of ramps...), but there's really nothing new here if you have read my rants about Temple and Outpost ramps already...

Twilight basilica ramps:
right: [image loading]

left:

Twilight high basilica ramps
right: [image loading]

left:

Now here's something interesting: this time some one at Blizzard decided to try their hands at some creative bugging; Realizing that just making the same trivial mistake time and time again becomes a bit stale with time, they decided to mix is up a bit with these ones. Behold, though, how instead of just doing it right for once (that would also be boring, right?), this time they decided that high ground ramps would best work if the high ground part was actually low ground (but getting the medium ground part right, effectively making the high ground ramp an inverted version, terrain level-wise, of the low ground ones.
The good news is: This freak screw-up (combined with the nice blending possibilities with Basilica and Flagstone terrains) at least makes these ramps usable for the most part, plus easy extensions and inversions, hooray! It requires some consideration, though, and that kind of consideration, how do to fix Blizzard's terrain bugs, shall get its well-deserved article of its own (some time...).

Space Platform high platform stairways:
[image loading]

For completeness's sake. There isn't actually much use for these on a proper melee map (unless you enjoy spending thew better part of five minutes at 300 apm just to make your dragoon army move down your main ramp).
My best advise is to, slightly modified, use these in the same manner that 815 uses tightened ramps to restrict access for all big units. This way, the "dragoons shall not pass" impasse is at least hard-coded into the concept...

Installation stairways:
[image loading]

Another one purely for the sake of completeness. You will never see these in a melee map for the obvious and trivial reason that Installation is purely for use in UMS maps.

kogeT

Poland2041 Posts

April 13 2015 17:58 GMT

#69

That is quite amazing what you posted. :O

Is this something new or just a documentation of things already done? (for example if some of these ramps were just created and shown for the first time?)

LRM)TechnicS

Bulgaria1565 Posts

April 14 2015 10:31 GMT

#70

pretty good job, imo
now if we only had that ramp diversity in actual maps for competitive gaming, that would be neat

2 questions:
what's the difference between Twilight Basilica ramps and Twilight High basilica ramps as I see what seems as the high ground of THB coloured in red (low ground)?
is there a ramp where we got low + mid + high ground at the same time? If so - is there a significant difference between damage dealt low -> mid, low -> high, mid -> high, high -> mid, high -> low, mid->low?

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

April 14 2015 14:27 GMT

#71

I think you do not really see the point of these. These are, plain and simply, only the ramps that already come with doodads (widened, inverted, created from scratch or otherwise manually edited ones). It's a systematic examination of the raw material, so to speak, mostly geek fodder for mappers, I guess.
If players have to worry about this kind of stuff on a certain map, I would see that as a sign that the mapper has done a bad job.
The task of a mapper, as I see it, should be to provide players with a map that simply works as it is supposed to (where no units turn accidentally blind or do not hit their targets because of terrain bugs, where mineral lines are balanced and where units do not get randomly stuck on ramps, for example). This is meant mostly as reference tile catalogue for map makers to help them pitfalls related to terrain level.
I will expand this, but it takes time to edit pictures and write up all the stuff, sorry...

On April 14 2015 19:31 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
pretty good job, imo
now if we only had that ramp diversity in actual maps for competitive gaming, that would be neat

Most of these are actually pretty useless for use in melee maps, for various reasons which I will explain some time soon(ish). Better to have a solid, good looking overall map design than something buggy, ugly and overall not really working out, just for the novelty value.

what's the difference between Twilight Basilica ramps and Twilight High basilica ramps as I see what seems as the high ground of THB coloured in red (low ground)?

is there a ramp where we got low + mid + high ground at the same time?

Not among the standard ramps, no. one can manually create a ramp that traverses two cliff levels and has these properties, though. Look at the bottom left quadrant (or rather tridrant, if that's a word...) of my map (3)Architexture, for example.)

If so - is there a significant difference between damage dealt low -> mid, low -> high, mid -> high, high -> mid, high -> low, mid->low?

No. Hit chance for ranged units is either 255/256 (even ground), 136/255 (to any higher ground, doodad cover [which is also a tile property (p.e. trees, (4)Desertec)]) or 0 (under dark swarm).
I'll add a reference for this...

Jukado

805 Posts

April 17 2015 09:39 GMT

#72

Hit chance for ranged units is either 255/256 (even ground), 136/255 (to any higher ground, doodad cover [which is also a tile property (p.e. trees, (4)Desertec)]) or 0 (under dark swarm).

This sentence is like Inception; The '4' is 4 brackets deep.

Nice pictures!

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

May 05 2015 23:10 GMT

#73

So, finally there it is, personal rants included. I will probably write some actual guides as how to actually solve the (hopefully obvious) ensuing problems at some point in the future (technically it seems like I have to provide some content for this thread at least once every half year to avoid its being automatically locked again...)

Greg_J

China4409 Posts

November 03 2018 14:23 GMT

#74

I'm way out of touch with Starcraft. I've been too busy with my job and studying. I don't even know what the KSL is but I'm pretty sure they just played on your map. I love your maps and it's so good to see one of them in high level Korean competitions. Anyway to sum up I'm drunk you are awesome freakling.

thezanursic

5497 Posts

November 03 2018 14:53 GMT

#75

On November 03 2018 23:23 Greg_J wrote:
I'm way out of touch with Starcraft. I've been too busy with my job and studying. I don't even know what the KSL is but I'm pretty sure they just played on your map. I love your maps and it's so good to see one of them in high level Korean competitions. Anyway to sum up I'm drunk you are awesome freakling.

The most recent KSL season is using two Freakling maps

(Wiki)

Roadkill

Eddy

I kinda wish they'd replace all their maps and we'd just have a 100% new map poll, still playing on Fighting Spirit in 2018 should be illegal

Greg_J

China4409 Posts

November 03 2018 15:10 GMT

#76

That's awesome. The one I recognized was In the way of the Eddy. I hadn't even noticed Roadkill was also a Freakling classic. I don't know why this makes me so happy. It in no way affects me. Just great to see some recognition for maps and and a designer I always thought was great.

Yanokabo

268 Posts

November 03 2018 16:15 GMT

#77

Freak has lesser known but still good maps I would love to see asl give oxide a go , or any other ones.

zerglingling

131 Posts

November 05 2018 14:55 GMT

#78

It seems like someone listened to that ramp rant, as the new ramp sets are considerably less broken. Have you been working on anything that uses these yet?

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

November 05 2018 15:40 GMT

#79

If you are talking about the new ramps released with patch 1.22 – unfortunately you are wrong in that any one actually listened to my "ramp rant", or to my terrain bug report for that matter. Those ramps are actually very broken to a point where they are completely useless for serious melee map making without heavy manual post-editing. Most damning is the fact that all the "cliffs" (i.e. the unwalkable parts), throughout, have their terrain level flags not properly set, resulting in extended cliff vision (you can see units and buildings at the top edge of the cliff without actually having any units on higher ground yourself or being attacked by the them). The old standard dirt ramps for the desert tileset had the same problem (and a few others).
Anyway, for the most part there is little use in using any of them right now, except to cannibalize them for some tiles to create decent-looking reverse ramps for the Ash tileset (because for some reason or another the shading and contrast of the cliff and ramp tiles for that tileset were changed a lot in HD graphics, thus screwing up the blends "traditionally" available for that purpose.

zerglingling

131 Posts

November 05 2018 17:40 GMT

#80

The broken tiles are mostly duplicates, so I wouldn't call this entirely useless. Certainly better than having height 0 used instead of 2, and having to work around that.
[image loading]

I was asking more about the new tiles' potential in creative tile butchering. Was hoping you could find some interesting uses for those. You can now make those kinda long ridges with any terrain type in any direction, so that's nice.
[image loading]

You could also go and fix Oxide, the rust pit ramps actually don't have flag issues. Of course, breaking 1.16 compat is still something to consider.
[image loading]

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