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Patch 1.18++ terrain bug documentation

Forum Index > BW General
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Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-30 14:54:51
March 29 2017 23:34 GMT
#1
So with patch 1.18 and probably further patches towards the release of BW remastered, it seems now is the time to finally set some of the things right that are wrong with some of the tilesets (particularly the brood-war-specific tilesets) ever since the launch of the game back in 1998. What I am talking about are terrain level bugs, i.e. terrain tiles (or subtiles) that simply are flagged with the wrong terrain level. I am not talking about map makers misapplying certain terrain tiles here, which certainly also happens a lot, but about tiles that are actually set up the wrong way, hardcoded into the terrain palette of the game.

To address some points that some one might want to bring up right from the start:

Would fixing these change gameplay?
No. Not really. This is simply a matter of fixing some (or rather quite a lot of) faulty terrain level flags in the terrain palettes. No core aspect of gameplay would be even touched by this, but lots of map-specific bugs and exploits would automatically be fixed by fixing these issues.

But will this not change our legacy maps?
Well, yes, but mostly in completely insignificant ways, and where changes would be noticeable it is because some bad bugs would be fixed. The worst that might happen is that some random mining bugs (i.e. bad worker pathing) pop up on some maps, but most maps have a few of them to begin with, and these could subsequently be fixed without a problem. Map balance as a whole should not be affected, as bugs like these usually have rather small scale effects (enough to potentially screw players over in a single game, but not enough to really tilt balance on a larger scale)

Would changing these be much work?
No. As I said, it is purely about changing flags in the terrain palettes, which for the most part could be done via simple search and replace routine.

Sounds all very technical so far, why should I as a player care about this map stuff?
Let me give you some examples:
Exhibit 1 (map: Tau Cross):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Is that a Siege Tank playing peekaboo over the southern main wall? Oh yes, it is!


Exhibit 2 (map: Blue Storm):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Blind tank?! Blind Tank! And it has bad aiming skills as well (in other words: low ground disadvantage....)


Exhibit 3 (map: Return of the King):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Another truly sad tank, blind and missing shots half of the time...


Exhibit 4 (map: Grand Line):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Red circles mark where there should definitely be no high ground vision.Sniping wallins without having to go up the ramp is a fun sport, though.

[image loading]
Same here ; Also take notice how vision of the ramp itself is less obstructed here – that is because the high ground does not extend nearly as far down the ramp on the left cliff ramp as on the right cliff one, for whatever reason (reason probably being they needed to get the expansion done and did not really have the time to spend on such details, back in the day).

But wait, it gets even better!
[image loading]
KABOOM, baby!


Exhibit 5 (map: Vårens Töväder):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
While we all know that Zerglings have magical powers, looking over walls is actually not supposed to be one of them...


Exhibit 6 (map: Bloody Ridge):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
A very interesting spot in deed. (Sidenote: dropping two Hydralisks in this spot and morphing them both to Lurkers is an interesting map exploit, have fun experimenting with it, fellow Zerg players :D)


Exhibit 7 (map: Chain Reaction):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Some more cliff vision...


Exhibit 8 (map: Outsider):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Let's just dub these peripheral fringe cases.


Some examples as viewed in CHKDraft*:
(*CHKDraft is a WIP map editor by jjf28, which was projected as an eventual successor of SCMDraft and is already invaluable for its ability to directly display terrain elevations)

Demonstrating all bugs in pictures would be far too much work. It is also not really needed. But I thought that it might be interesting to see for people not up to the ears into map making how these bugs present themselves in an editor.

Ash World terrain has only a handful of terrain elevation bugs, but makes up for it by having some very common tile affected, so an average map actually ends upwith quite a few of these:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
And these are among the most nitpicky ones in my list.


Let's have a look at the infamous Desert World ramps:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Only thing worse are some custom-made ramps ;D (I made a small mistake in creating the picture, the "high ground" is technically speaking all medium ground, of course...)

Just for clarity and to make a suggestion – this is what a (more) ideal desert ramp would look like:
[image loading]


Ice World terrain has some pretty serious – and I daresay pointy – ones:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


High Outpost is even worse, at least in quantity of bugs:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Some "highlight" from Twilight:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
What a mess! What's up with all that low ground (green)? High Compound and High Sandy Sunken Pit (Desert) have the same problem (may actually be exact copies of the twilight tiles)


Not much objectionable for Jungle terrain, this one however is kind of a biggy:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
This definitely is a pretty nice parking space for a tank.


finally, two bits directly from the terrain palette:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Rusty Pit Ramps (Space Platform): All low ground!

[image loading]
High Sandy Sunken Pit (Desert): Some things are really odd here...





So long story short, I actually went through all the tilesets in CHKDraft and made a list off all the bugged tiles. There are some instances of singular errors, but mostly these are comprised of whole sections of the terrain palette of the brood war specific tilesets, which were obviously very hastily thrown together before shipping the game...
If tiles are notated with an x in between that means that the whole section of tiles in the palette between these corner indices is being refered to.
This is the list for reference.

EDIT: Sorry, did not put the shareable link. Now it should work.

New Addition: Other bugs that can be linked to terrain flags

Let me make clear first that there are a bunch of tiles in the terrain palettes which have not the properties they are supposed to display but should not be considered a bug that needs fixing because they do not cause any malicious problems and more often than not have actual legitimate uses, for which they are often irreplaceable and should therefore be preserved.
Examples would be the buildable doodads for Badlands Structure terrain, which is unbuildable by default. Obviously buildable tiles for an otherwise unbuildable terrain type are a very useful thing to have (even more than the other way around) and, in the mentioned case, maps like Detonation, Plasma or Heartbeat (and many more) would never have been possible without them.
Another good exmple are doodad tiles which are flagged as buildable but also (partially) unwalkable, which effectively makes them unbuildable, but still allows creep to spread over them freely, just like any other walkable ground. this makes these doodads very useful in certain spots: As every (Zerg) player probably knows, creep spreads in a peculiar way where it never covers the bottommost row of tiles over an unbuildable obstacle, creating a nasty gap which is effectively unbuildable for Zerg (except with a Hatchery, which does not require creep to be placed). The aforementioned doodad tiles are simple and effective way to plug that gap, allowing map makers to optimize key choke points for better balanced and easier wall-ins for Zerg.

There are however some things which are simply not right without having legitimate uses (or at least not enough to justify their preserving) but cause unwanted behaviour with the game and are therefore to be considered bugs.

Presenting: The creepy doodad bug:
Any one ever seen this happening? :
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]

This bug is linked to tile flag 0x4000. This flag seems to have been originally used to indicate flipped doodad sprites (besides the examples shown in the images this flag is only ever set for right-side wall doodads in the Installation tileset [doors, traps, ventilators]), but is probably now deprecated, together with the "flip sprite" flag. It should therefore be no problem to fix these by simply removing the flag from those tiles.

Update:
  • Added some bugs pertaining to inconsistent or missing minitile flags for doodad vision blocking in various tilesets to the list
  • Also added a rather obscure bug that could prevent Starting Locations from being placed in classic StarEdit because of a faulty tile flag (really more for completeness sake than anything, as no one uses StarEdit any more and even then it's only two tiles which are affected)
duke91
Profile Joined April 2014
Germany1458 Posts
March 29 2017 23:39 GMT
#2
They can't release it in this state tomorrow. Unacceptable
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
trutaCz
Profile Joined October 2011
Poland686 Posts
March 30 2017 00:28 GMT
#3
shit doesnt want to run for me xD
yo~.~
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
March 30 2017 08:30 GMT
#4
Sorry, did not put the shareable link. Now it should work.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 12:31:18
March 30 2017 12:28 GMT
#5
On March 30 2017 08:39 duke91 wrote:
They can't release it in this state tomorrow. Unacceptable

Agree, It's in a terrible state right now.
Hopefully Iccup stays at 1.16 while this shitshow blows over and Blizzard comes out with a stable version.Could take weeks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
SirGlinG
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden933 Posts
March 30 2017 12:41 GMT
#6
Yeah. I didn't expect this many issues after how trustworthy and knowledgeable Stilwell has sounded.

Lagged every game. If they're gonna implement the fish server maybe they should adapt to it as well, give us some fake lan latency. Dunno, maybe they've done that, yesterday was just a weird test with only USA's server up and running.
Not my chair. Not my problem. That's what I say
Ahli
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany355 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 12:47:16
March 30 2017 12:45 GMT
#7
On March 30 2017 21:41 SirGlinG wrote:
Yeah. I didn't expect this many issues after how trustworthy and knowledgeable Stilwell has sounded.

Lagged every game. If they're gonna implement the fish server maybe they should adapt to it as well, give us some fake lan latency. Dunno, maybe they've done that, yesterday was just a weird test with only USA's server up and running.

This is a problem created by the original authors of SC and SCBW. Stilwell has the duty to be in a position to get these bugs fixed. I don't think any map, melee nor UMS, relies on these sub-tiles having wrong flags as a game feature.

edit: It's also pretty cool that you figured these issues out and researched them in great detail. I didn't know about them before seeing this thread yesterday and I have been mapping UMS for years.
AhliSC2@Twitter - GameHeart Observer UI - "HomeStoryCup XX" extension mod fixes WCS GameHeart's small bugs, adds a lot of new features -
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 16:59:08
March 30 2017 13:05 GMT
#8
For pointing out other issues, you may actualy want to use another thread.

This thread is simply meant to act as a bug report, so I have something to refer the developers to, should they actually pay some attention.

I may add some more screenshots, showing how it looks in CHKDraft, later on.
Ahli
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany355 Posts
March 30 2017 13:09 GMT
#9
On March 30 2017 22:05 Freakling wrote:
For pointing out other issues, you may actualy want to use abother thread.

This thread is simply meant to act as a bug report, so I have something to refer the developers to, should they actually pay some attention.

I may add some more screenshots, showing how it looks in CHKDraft, later on.

You should make a thread in Blizzard's bug report forum for SCBW/remaster:
us.battle.net
AhliSC2@Twitter - GameHeart Observer UI - "HomeStoryCup XX" extension mod fixes WCS GameHeart's small bugs, adds a lot of new features -
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6635 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 13:32:35
March 30 2017 13:27 GMT
#10
The other thing I recall is on FS on certain ramps (like bottom left) if you put a marine at the top of it in a specific position it will have no vision.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
ruypture
Profile Joined May 2014
United States367 Posts
March 30 2017 14:04 GMT
#11
ouch, i noticed this in my games on blue storm with a friend, my tanks had no vision when they were on highground, although i didn't think much of it
어윤수|이신형|이재동|이승형
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-02 23:09:03
March 30 2017 16:49 GMT
#12
On March 30 2017 22:27 jello_biafra wrote:
The other thing I recall is on FS on certain ramps (like bottom left) if you put a marine at the top of it in a specific position it will have no vision.

There are in fact multiple of these spots, on all the inverted (i.e. hand-made) ramps.
This is a related bug, but this one is of the form "map maker misapplied tile" not of the form "faulty tile settings". So you have to partly blame the map maker for this one (and partly the fact that until recently there simply was no simple debugging tool for this kind of issue).
However, that is explicitly not within the scope of this thread (or else I would have just tilted it "please remove all terrain levels from Brood War so mappers cannot screw it up any more" ;D ).

On March 30 2017 23:04 ruypture wrote:
ouch, i noticed this in my games on blue storm with a friend, my tanks had no vision when they were on highground, although i didn't think much of it

They weren't even on high ground. Not even on medium ground, to be precise...

On March 30 2017 22:09 Ahli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2017 22:05 Freakling wrote:
For pointing out other issues, you may actualy want to use abother thread.

This thread is simply meant to act as a bug report, so I have something to refer the developers to, should they actually pay some attention.

I may add some more screenshots, showing how it looks in CHKDraft, later on.

You should make a thread in Blizzard's bug report forum for SCBW/remaster:
us.battle.net

Somehow it does not let me open a new topic...
Philoctetes
Profile Joined March 2017
Netherlands77 Posts
March 30 2017 18:11 GMT
#13
This game is almost 20 years old now. This is exactly what happened every patch; Blizzard breaking community fixes and introducing new bugs.

I am surprised people are surprised.
Ahli
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany355 Posts
March 30 2017 18:28 GMT
#14
On March 31 2017 03:11 Philoctetes wrote:
This game is almost 20 years old now. This is exactly what happened every patch; Blizzard breaking community fixes and introducing new bugs.

I am surprised people are surprised.

You failed to understand that these bugs are not new.

On March 31 2017 01:49 Freakling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2017 22:09 Ahli wrote:
You should make a thread in Blizzard's bug report forum for SCBW/remaster:
us.battle.net

Somehow it does not let me open a new topic...


I became a bit impatient and posted it myself referencing this thread.
If you want me to add any information, let me know.
Btw, I think you need scripts to run to be able to post on bnet forums. But, sometimes threads never become visible for some reason. Sometimes it takes 2+ minutes for them to appear.
AhliSC2@Twitter - GameHeart Observer UI - "HomeStoryCup XX" extension mod fixes WCS GameHeart's small bugs, adds a lot of new features -
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-02 23:11:15
March 30 2017 18:54 GMT
#15
Thank you. Hopefully some one reads it.
I cannot even click the "new topic" button...

On March 31 2017 03:11 Philoctetes wrote:
This game is almost 20 years old now. This is exactly what happened every patch; Blizzard breaking community fixes and introducing new bugs.

There are no community fixes (unless you call just not using the stuff that's broken a fix, and even that is hard to do and not always possible).
These bugs are not new, they have been there since the very launch of the game and just never been fixed because basically Blizzard stopped patching the game before map makers became savvy enough. The thing that has changed is that now we suddenly have the real chance to finally get rid of them!

I am surprised people are surprised.

So cut the unnecessary vitriol.
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 21:07:20
March 30 2017 21:05 GMT
#16
On March 30 2017 08:39 duke91 wrote:
They can't release it in this state tomorrow. Unacceptable

read more closely, this is the state the game (1.16) is CURRENTLY in, and has been since launch

lots of people jumping to conclusions here
vibeo gane,
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-18 10:50:08
April 18 2017 10:49 GMT
#17
I had the chance to conduct a bit more deeper research into the nature of tile flags and discovered some interesting stuff. Therefore I have decided to widen the scope of this documentation a bit to include other bugs linked to tile flags.

For example, I found the likely cause of this bug (for a more detailed description, look in the OP):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6174 Posts
April 18 2017 11:23 GMT
#18
The blue storm one is not a bug, it's obviously a hole in the ground where tank is sitting is
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
April 30 2017 00:00 GMT
#19
Update:
  • Added some bugs pertaining to inconsistent or missing minitile flags for doodad vision blocking in various tilesets to the list
  • Also added a rather obscure bug that could prevent Starting Locations from being placed in classic StarEdit because of a faulty tile flag (really more for completeness sake than anything, as no one uses StarEdit any more and even then it's only two tiles which are affected)
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