A huge question that has been asked so many times, it should be added to the FAQ, has been "When will new maps be added to the iCCup Map Pack? And what maps will they be?". For too long, we have only seen the download link to MapPack v2.4. Every time a map was posted, the discussion would inevitably turn to whether or not the iCCup map pack will be updated. Well, your answer is here as four new maps are being added to the ladder, one of them by the famous Rose.of.Dream, a Korean mapper who created the equally famous Fighting Spirit. But, with the discontinuation of the Proleague, we can no longer depend on the Korean scene for everything related to Starcraft: and a larger part of the responsibility to keep Starcraft: Brood War as strong as ever has fallen to the foreign scene. With the large, choking canopy of KeSpa withering away from Brood War, the sapling BroodWarMaps.Net has been allowed to blossom in the open air; contributing three of the four new maps through their dedication and hardwork to forge these maps and push them through an entire tournament. Before, they have gotten maps added to the iCCup Map Pack, such as Faoi, but hopefully these maps will have a longer staying time and impact with the community.
Maps make up a huge part of Starcraft, and the maps must evolve to keep up with the times. Maps of old, from an era where Blizzard maps were used in professional play, would no longer be able to be played with the metagame. And so, the a few anachronistic relics have been taken out in order to give a chance for these new maps to flourish.
Now, iCCup is proud to present; MapPack v2.5 Please note that there are some issues being reported with the new maps, and that the iCCup team is working on fixing all bugs in all maps to make one giant update.
*Force Fields -- Under the "force fields" (designated by pylon power matrices) ranged attacks have a 50% chance to miss *Low Ground Main, High Ground Natural *Low 3rd Gas -- Geysers at 1, 5, 7, and 11 o' clock expansions only have 2500g *Central Valley - - A Valley runs vertically down the center of the map, dividing the East and West
DeserTec has a really plain expansion layout, but is made very interesting by the "forcefield" mechanic, which holds many implications for all matchups. In ZvZ, lings may be able to run a bit more freely through the center as not all muta shots will hit, in PvP the essential Dragoon will now be weakened against the then-laughable zealot. TvT may become a bit more luck based, as whether your tank shots hit or not become so much more crucial. In ZvT, Zerg is barely affected as muta harass in the main is has no forcefield to deal with, and lurkers, lings, and ultras are melee units. Terran will certainly have to be more careful as M+M forces will only be half as effective, perhaps introducing greater firebat play. For a mech TvZ, tanks will only be effective in siege mode, necessitating more tanks and more mines to protect them. ZvP is hard on both sides, as the crucial dragoons and hydras both are affected, leaving a more zealot and ling heavy composition. This may be in Protoss' favor as Psi Storm is still effective as ever, and muta snipes are twice as hard. Now, in the most debated matchup on this map; TvP. While many claim Terran is now underpowered as they claim Tanks and Vultures don't stand a chance against speedlots, remember the spider mines which now will slow down dragoon pushes as they take twice as long to clear them. Will my analysis hold true? Only testing can tell, so go play some games and report how they go. GL HF.
*Circular Ridge -- A circular ridge is in the center, cliffing the mineral-onlies *Reduced Mineral Onlies -- The outermost mineral patches of each mineral-only has only 749 minerals
*Neutral Command Center -- Neutral CC that Zergs may infest *Easily Wallable Main -- The main can be walled off with one barracks *3rd Choice -- There are many choices for which 3rd gas to take *Poxy Spots -- Mostly buidable center offers many good proxy spots
*Surrounding Plateaus -- A series of plateaus around the center of the map move the fight from the center of the map to the area around it for control of the high ground *will be updated later
A huge theme throughout this has been the new replacing the old, and with the addition of these four new maps, the dust must be swept out and four maps have been removed to make room for more modern maps.
Era: 2010 - 2011 Also known as Central Plains this (3) player map was used in the 2010-2011 season of the Shinhan Bank Proleague. The original version(as a candidate for Round 4 of the '09 Proleague) featured a gas expo in main, an island expo, and a gas expo backed by a cliff + Show Spoiler [Initial Version] +
. The modern(if it can be called modern) version has a bit more conventional layout, although it is still quite "unique" and macro-heavy, having, in addition to a natural; a gas expansion back door, which leads to another gas expansion on the high ground which is a semi-island as the ramps leading to that expo are blocked off by eggs. The natural has a small cliff where units can be dropped to harass the mineral line. While in Beta-testing, the sponsor of the Proleague was uncertain so a 'P' for Proleague was drawn in the center of the map, instead of the current Shinhan logo. After Round 1, this map was replaced by Bloody Ridge due to the high Protoss favor of this map: of the 35 games played on this map, 33 had Protoss players and there were 27 PvPs. This map has had its run, but with its lack of play as well as racial imbalance, it's time to retire.
Era: 2008 Troy was one of the maps where the discovers something new, and wows everyone with his creation. The idea of a semi-island map was familiar at the time, the players would start off on an island and slowly the map would evolve into a land-based map, whether the mains were the only islands or portions of the map could be opened up by destroying neutral units or buildings. Troy, took this idea, and reversed it. Due to a difference between the sizes of Vespene Geysers and Assimilators, the proper placement of two Geysers with Assimilators on top created a passageway where any unit could pass through, including (surprisingly) Ultralisks. When one Assimilator was destroyed, the passageway would narrow,allowing only small units to pass through. When both Assimilators were destroyed, not even a Zergling could pass through(although somehow, the anorexic Ghost could slip through). So, slowly as the poor neutral buildings were razed, the map bases would disconnect from the center and the map morphed into an island map. This threw off many players at first, and players would have to change their play styles to adapt for this. Slowly, the players learned how to play on this map, and towards the end of this map's Proleague life, a Protoss imbalance appeared. While the the overall map stats seem passably balanced, once one takes out the initial time when everyone was adapting to a new mechanic, Protoss just seems too strong.
Era: 2010 - 2011 Zerg OP. Proven even more so by eggs everywhere showing the Zerg presence already there. Idk I'll write more about this later, I'll have to research it a bit. Shit happens when you mix Protoss and Zerg together to get Eggs under Arbiter cloaking fields...
Era: 2009 - 2010 A funny thing about this map is that, during initial testing, many players stated that they disliked this map. Initially, it wasn't selected but then it was put into the map pool for Winners League . Let's see how that goes, not listening to your players.. Good games Protoss, maybe they let Central Plains in to make up for how many warriors of the void died here.
Thanks to iCCup.Fry for preparing the new map pack.
The OP is still a work in progress...trying to make it prettier and prettier. Also, if there's info you think that's incorrect here, or there's any information/trivia/misc. I should add, please PM me.
On February 11 2013 04:30 fazek42 wrote: Just a question - why do they need to make room for the new maps? Why can't we just have every map that was ever made in the map pool?
maybe it has something to do with motw, like every map from map pool should be in motw at least once for some period of time
These maps look great, its a shame that 99% of iCCup players wont play them because they are not Proleague maps... iCCup should make these maps worth more then 130 points to encourage people to play them.
On February 11 2013 04:30 fazek42 wrote: Just a question - why do they need to make room for the new maps? Why can't we just have every map that was ever made in the map pool?
Well no one wants to have to know like 100+ maps, also would you really want maps like Into The Dragon or Paradoxx with the current metagame? There's simply no point in keeping outdated maps, map packs should only contain either relevant or innovative maps...For example Troy gates were new and innovative at the time, but the execution of their usage wasn't that stellar, what set it apart were merely the Troy gates...another example is Fortress which used a cool new mechanic, but overall the map itself wasn't that great. A final example (with some speculation on my part) would be DeserTec. The new "forcefield" mechanic where there is a 50% miss rate for projectiles against units in those areas has never been used like this before in competitive play (trees and Demon's Forest don't count) and it certainly gives new play styles to this map, but the map itself has a pretty boring expo layout and such with only the (over usage?) of miss-chance files to set it apart, perhaps in the future a better executed map that smoothly incorporates this effect will be created to replace DeserTec...
I dont know most new maps from 2011-12 becasue all I can see on ladder is FS and python... sometimes some1 hosts MP or Heartbreak Ridge to proxy gates or smth.
edit: remove old maps from tours/ladder, force ppl to play new maps. Boohoo several dinosaurs gona cry because they wanna stage a comeback on some old shit like longinus or blue storms or too lazy to learn new maps w/e it's not 2006-07
On February 11 2013 04:33 nbaker wrote: Cool. Hope people will actually play them!
There seems to be a lot of people who want to play new maps...it all starts with the community, perhaps set up a Skype chat or a channel dedicated to finding people willing to play new maps? Like maybe start an "op motw" for people who only want to play MOTWs?
On February 11 2013 04:30 fazek42 wrote: Just a question - why do they need to make room for the new maps? Why can't we just have every map that was ever made in the map pool?
Apparently the PVPGN System only allows 50 maps to bet set as ladder maps, more won't work. Technical issue.
On February 11 2013 04:42 Musiq wrote: These maps look great, its a shame that 99% of iCCup players wont play them because they are not Proleague maps... iCCup should make these maps worth more then 130 points to encourage people to play them.
We can't do more than set up different MOTWs, the picks are made by users. It'd be worse on a server like FISH though that doesn't use any kind of MOTW system. One of the few advantages of not having an Elo based ranking.
On February 11 2013 04:30 fazek42 wrote: Just a question - why do they need to make room for the new maps? Why can't we just have every map that was ever made in the map pool?
Well no one wants to have to know like 100+ maps, also would you really want maps like Into The Dragon or Paradoxx with the current metagame? There's simply no point in keeping outdated maps, map packs should only contain either relevant or innovative maps...For example Troy gates were new and innovative at the time, but the execution of their usage wasn't that stellar, what set it apart were merely the Troy gates...another example is Fortress which used a cool new mechanic, but overall the map itself wasn't that great. A final example (with some speculation on my part) would be DeserTec. The new "forcefield" mechanic where there is a 50% miss rate for projectiles against units in those areas has never been used like this before in competitive play (trees and Demon's Forest don't count) and it certainly gives new play styles to this map, but the map itself has a pretty boring expo layout and such with only the (over usage?) of miss-chance files to set it apart, perhaps in the future a better executed map that smoothly incorporates this effect will be created to replace DeserTec...
What do you mean trees and Demon's Forest don't count?
On February 11 2013 06:34 CakeOrI)eath wrote: Inverse ramp main and half the map with a 50% miss chance for ranged units... Someone really hates Terrans.
Once upon a time there was a dragoon. After serving for a long time as a zealot, he lost his body and was transported back to Aiur. There he decided, like many of his brethren, to become a dragoon. As a dragoon, he was the veteran of many conflicts, often leading the charge into Terran minefields clearing out mines all while under siege tank fire in order to clear the way. Then, this dragoon was deployed to DeserTec. There he met his end clearing minefields as he and his brothers took twice as long to clear the way to the tank line and sustained heavy splash damage. The end I hope that didn't sound sarcastic...I just wanted to point out that some Protosses have mentioned clearing mines is a bitch. Also for TvZ, this could lead to more firebats? Idk I dont play Terran...
On February 11 2013 04:30 fazek42 wrote: Just a question - why do they need to make room for the new maps? Why can't we just have every map that was ever made in the map pool?
Well no one wants to have to know like 100+ maps, also would you really want maps like Into The Dragon or Paradoxx with the current metagame? There's simply no point in keeping outdated maps, map packs should only contain either relevant or innovative maps...For example Troy gates were new and innovative at the time, but the execution of their usage wasn't that stellar, what set it apart were merely the Troy gates...another example is Fortress which used a cool new mechanic, but overall the map itself wasn't that great. A final example (with some speculation on my part) would be DeserTec. The new "forcefield" mechanic where there is a 50% miss rate for projectiles against units in those areas has never been used like this before in competitive play (trees and Demon's Forest don't count) and it certainly gives new play styles to this map, but the map itself has a pretty boring expo layout and such with only the (over usage?) of miss-chance files to set it apart, perhaps in the future a better executed map that smoothly incorporates this effect will be created to replace DeserTec...
What do you mean trees and Demon's Forest don't count?
Is that a different miss percentage than 50%?
I meant that trees give 50% miss rate an Demon's Forest was most notable for its use of trees to create a 50% miss rate zone(and vision blocking) but that no map before has used tile editing to create a misszone...Sorry if I wasn't clear
On February 11 2013 06:54 rice_devOurer wrote: Does the "force-field" act like a dark swarm? or dies it apply only to the units firing inside?
I would think only misschance is applied to units firing from inside to outside and inside to inside. It would make sense to give defenders advantage outside of your natural.
I'm very happy to see some BWMN maps make it in there! Although I am quite suprised desertec was one of the choices. I think Melting Pot or Cross Game would have been better picks. Resonance II was my favorite so that was a great choice.
ps. Im assuming these 1.0 version are actually the latest ones just renamed?
On February 11 2013 06:54 rice_devOurer wrote: Does the "force-field" act like a dark swarm? or dies it apply only to the units firing inside?
The force field does act like dark swarm, except 50% instead of 100% miss chance...so if there's a tank in the force field and a dragoon is shooting at it(doesn't matter where the dragoon is) the dragoon will only hit half the time, so make sure to not get contained...
On February 11 2013 07:01 3FFA wrote: That was an awesome story right there. Awesome news and an awesome story?! :D
edit: Can you put the BWMN links to the maps too?
I'll add in BWMN links soon still formatting the OP...
On February 11 2013 07:15 nbaker wrote: Yeah, that forcefield thing sounds horrible. Idk about balance, but why have it in?
Only time can tell about balance...I assume this is to expose players to the force field mechanic so if later maps introduce them it won't be too weird
On February 11 2013 07:22 L3gendary wrote: I'm very happy to see some BWMN maps make it in there! Although I am quite suprised desertec was one of the choices. I think Melting Pot or Cross Game would have been better picks. Resonance II was my favorite so that was a great choice.
ps. Im assuming these 1.0 version are actually the latest ones just renamed?
Me too, I would've preferred Cross Game to DeserTec, but at least foreign maps are getting exposure I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's just renamed to 1.0, so if there are version changes later it'll be easy to keep track of...an iCCup admin would have to confirm tho...
Certainly nice to see new maps being added in, it shows that BW is still alive as ever, Wind and Cloud would never have made it in without Sonic commissioning and using it, and the same for the three BWMN Maps, without L3gendary's sponsorship and tournament they would have had a much harder time getting tested and added...
On February 11 2013 04:30 fazek42 wrote: Just a question - why do they need to make room for the new maps? Why can't we just have every map that was ever made in the map pool?
Well no one wants to have to know like 100+ maps, also would you really want maps like Into The Dragon or Paradoxx with the current metagame?
What do you mean "with the current metagame"? Enter the Dragon and Paradoxxx were never any good.
It's nice to see some fresh new maps in the map pack and some of these look pretty decent at a first glance. It's too bad that no one will play them after the first ~1-2 weeks and will continue to host almost exclusively on FS and Python with the occasional (1/10 times) motw thrown in.
DeserTec's Force Field gimmick is so bizarre. I'm interested in seeing how it works (and what kind of shitty force field lets half the bullets through). Half Swarms everywhere are obviously good for Zerg, but there are also awkward thirds, so....hm.
I liked the Wind and Cloud map when I first looked at it, but you can't wall the bottom left main position beacuse for some reason they've put one single invisible patch of something there to make it impossible ... that sort of makes me not like it anymore
On February 11 2013 07:22 L3gendary wrote: I'm very happy to see some BWMN maps make it in there! Although I am quite suprised desertec was one of the choices. I think Melting Pot or Cross Game would have been better picks. Resonance II was my favorite so that was a great choice.
ps. Im assuming these 1.0 version are actually the latest ones just renamed?
I guess they wanted something new and different, especially after taking out such maps as Troy and Triathlon. I checked, they used the newest version, only the thread OP on ICCup uses old pictures, for some reason... Only change is, that they removed the Pylon Field sprites on DeserTec for the official version..
EDIT: Actually it's obvious: They just hate ash maps ;P
On February 11 2013 20:28 DorF wrote: I liked the Wind and Cloud map when I first looked at it, but you can't wall the bottom left main position beacuse for some reason they've put one single invisible patch of something there to make it impossible ... that sort of makes me not like it anymore
Wow, you're right, you actually need rax and 3 depots to make that position zealot tight... Natural gas positions also are... rather unusual at least. I will test them...
On February 11 2013 20:28 DorF wrote: I liked the Wind and Cloud map when I first looked at it, but you can't wall the bottom left main position beacuse for some reason they've put one single invisible patch of something there to make it impossible ... that sort of makes me not like it anymore
Wow, you're right, you actually need rax and 3 depots to make that position zealot tight... Natural gas positions also are... rather unusual at least. I will test them...
I'd assume that issue would have been fixed in the later release of Wind & Cloud. However, the version used in last SSL was never released publicly to my knowledge.
On February 11 2013 20:28 DorF wrote: I liked the Wind and Cloud map when I first looked at it, but you can't wall the bottom left main position beacuse for some reason they've put one single invisible patch of something there to make it impossible ... that sort of makes me not like it anymore
Wow, you're right, you actually need rax and 3 depots to make that position zealot tight... Natural gas positions also are... rather unusual at least. I will test them...
I'd assume that issue would have been fixed in the later release of Wind & Cloud. However, the version used in last SSL was never released publicly to my knowledge.
So this is basically an untested beta-version? Hmmm... Shouldn't be too hard to recreate any changes, as long as there is any material on the final map (some good vods with decent picture quality, though not optimal and annoying to use, would suffice).
On February 11 2013 20:28 DorF wrote: I liked the Wind and Cloud map when I first looked at it, but you can't wall the bottom left main position beacuse for some reason they've put one single invisible patch of something there to make it impossible ... that sort of makes me not like it anymore
Wow, you're right, you actually need rax and 3 depots to make that position zealot tight... Natural gas positions also are... rather unusual at least. I will test them...
I'd assume that issue would have been fixed in the later release of Wind & Cloud. However, the version used in last SSL was never released publicly to my knowledge.
So this is basically an untested beta-version? Hmmm... Shouldn't be too hard to recreate any changes, as long as there is any material on the final map (some good vods with decent picture quality, though not optimal and annoying to use, would suffice).
Or we could just ask Sonic to release the full map. I mean as far as I know Snipealot for instance to my knowledge has already contacted him about sponsoring his tournament with the stream revenue.
On February 11 2013 20:28 DorF wrote: I liked the Wind and Cloud map when I first looked at it, but you can't wall the bottom left main position beacuse for some reason they've put one single invisible patch of something there to make it impossible ... that sort of makes me not like it anymore
Wow, you're right, you actually need rax and 3 depots to make that position zealot tight... Natural gas positions also are... rather unusual at least. I will test them...
I'd assume that issue would have been fixed in the later release of Wind & Cloud. However, the version used in last SSL was never released publicly to my knowledge.
So this is basically an untested beta-version? Hmmm... Shouldn't be too hard to recreate any changes, as long as there is any material on the final map (some good vods with decent picture quality, though not optimal and annoying to use, would suffice).
Or we could just ask Sonic to release the full map. I mean as far as I know Snipealot for instance to my knowledge has already contacted him about sponsoring his tournament with the stream revenue.
yeah someone should update the changes or ask sonic / some kor players for the new version before implementing them to ICC, even if it's still better than troy
On February 11 2013 20:28 DorF wrote: I liked the Wind and Cloud map when I first looked at it, but you can't wall the bottom left main position beacuse for some reason they've put one single invisible patch of something there to make it impossible ... that sort of makes me not like it anymore
Wow, you're right, you actually need rax and 3 depots to make that position zealot tight... Natural gas positions also are... rather unusual at least. I will test them...
I'd assume that issue would have been fixed in the later release of Wind & Cloud. However, the version used in last SSL was never released publicly to my knowledge.
So this is basically an untested beta-version? Hmmm... Shouldn't be too hard to recreate any changes, as long as there is any material on the final map (some good vods with decent picture quality, though not optimal and annoying to use, would suffice).
Or we could just ask Sonic to release the full map. I mean as far as I know Snipealot for instance to my knowledge has already contacted him about sponsoring his tournament with the stream revenue.
yeah someone should update the changes or ask sonic / some kor players for the new version before implementing them to ICC, even if it's still better than troy
If people want, and have an unprotected version of the map and have screen shots of areas changed or a high quality picture, the BWMN Community would be willing to recreate any changes/help make changes for balance...
On February 14 2013 07:08 dRaW wrote:[...] yeah someone should update the changes or ask sonic / some kor players for the new version before implementing them to ICC, even if it's still better than troy
I just wonder why they wouldn't have already done that?
On February 14 2013 06:07 Toasterbaked wrote: Desertec's force fields are probably going to break tvz... Does the force field block lurker/muta shots?
They are just like any cover effect (dark swarm, high ground advantage, trees): they displace the point of impact for projectiles towards the firing unit. Area splash damage (Tanks, Archons) is still applied, but at the actual impact point, not the targeted unit (Spider Mines, Iinfested Terrans and Scarabs [and thereby Reavers] are unaffected), because they are essentially splash-melee units... Line splash damage (Firebats, Lurkers) is also unaffected, just like melee damage. And you're right, TvZ is the strongest balance concern here, which ICCup admins must have known, they added it nonetheless... If you want to play TvZ here, you can either BBS, hope that he opts for mutalisks, so you can abuse the force fields yourself wit M&Ms, or use the same tactics that terran would use against late game defilers - a lot of splash damage: Firebats, Tanks, Irradiates, Spider Mines. There's a lot of easily taken gas for terran to go mech/vessel heavy.
Great! thanks for posting. maybe we can add this new Wind and Cloud version to a new mappack soon. Now few words from ''the iccup administration'' :D i've read through all of this and few questions came up recently. i'll try to answer them:
Why the BWMN maps have all 1.0 version? I didn't saw any version number when i downloaded them from broodwarmaps.net, so i simply added a 1.0 version number, so i will not lose the overview for coming updates. if for example desertec was now in the 1.2 version and i named it 1.0 and the next release will be the 1.3 version, i can of course name it 1.3 for the next mappack release. i just need the information from somewhere^^
What's up with the force fields? I don't know if somebody tested that in a real ladder game already or not. I didn't^^ Problem here was that i had to make this mappack on one day. It was sunday, we finally agreed on which maps we take out and which we will add, and we wanted to have it done before the MOTW would change on that sunday evening. I can't remember what Desertec (obs or melee) version i took to make the mappack version. I simply removed the pylonfields and all unnecessary triggers. I don't know if it's coded on some fancy way that i don't know, so if you see this effect working please contact me. we did not want this effect in the map, since it will not work for the ladder anyways (playing in one on one mode for the ladder blocks all triggers, and this is some sort of trigger). so if i messed that up, i think the obs version could still have these field modification, while the melee version doesn't shows this effect in ladder games. If you know anything about this case, please help me by contacting me via tl.net or iccup (id: iccup.fry).
Why remove maps? and why Triathlon? T_T As Gecko already explained in an earlier post, we have a max of 50 ladder maps. triathlon is still in the mappack though. you can't play it on ladder, thats why it is in the 'non-ladder' folder of the mappack. we decided to remove these maps because they almost never got played in ladder. I know there is always somebody to cry about the maps that we remove, but thats how it works. no matter what map we remove, always somebody cries and says ''Oh no why XY map, i love XY map.'' i think we made the most fair thing here to remove the less played maps in ladder. there were few more maps that almost never get played, which will be removed for the next new maps. but this time the decision felt for these 4, so please accept that.
Final words: If you didn't recognized it yet, i better mention it: i messed up the obs-version for wind and cloud in the mappack, so if you want the fixed obs version you have to visit iccup.com and click on the 'files' tab. there you will find it
If the mapmakers or any of their friends read that, please tell me the best way to contact you / the mapmakers! i personally prefer skype. so if you want to discuss or help with new maps or new updates and you don't want to take the complicated way over such threads for example, please write me a PM here with your skype id or preferred way to communicate. it would also be enough to write PMs here i think, which is a bit slow though. thanks and have fun with the new maps!
On March 03 2013 16:46 PhilipJayFry wrote: What's up with the force fields? I don't know if somebody tested that in a real ladder game already or not. I didn't^^ Problem here was that i had to make this mappack on one day. It was sunday, we finally agreed on which maps we take out and which we will add, and we wanted to have it done before the MOTW would change on that sunday evening. I can't remember what Desertec (obs or melee) version i took to make the mappack version. I simply removed the pylonfields and all unnecessary triggers. I don't know if it's coded on some fancy way that i don't know, so if you see this effect working please contact me. we did not want this effect in the map, since it will not work for the ladder anyways (playing in one on one mode for the ladder blocks all triggers, and this is some sort of trigger). so if i messed that up, i think the obs version could still have these field modification, while the melee version doesn't shows this effect in ladder games. If you know anything about this case, please help me by contacting me via tl.net or iccup (id: iccup.fry).
Desertec seems horrendously imbalanced from the 5-10 times ive played it. Reverse extra wide ramps? Not trying to be completely negative (thanks to those who contribute with these new maps) but the map is just too imba to last.
None of te BWMN guys really expected this one to make the cut, the author made it to introduce the force field mechanics to everyone but he didn't expect too much balance from it...the ramps are annoying-ish but I wouldn't say they're super wide...they look slightly bigger than Chain Reaction's to me...
On March 14 2013 11:56 traceurling wrote: None of te BWMN guys really expected this one to make the cut, the author made it to introduce the force field mechanics to everyone but he didn't expect too much balance from it...the ramps are annoying-ish but I wouldn't say they're super wide...they look slightly bigger than Chain Reaction's to me...
The map feature is really interesting and I hope that map makers use it more...
Are the mapmakers actually capable of making their own terrain?
On March 14 2013 11:56 traceurling wrote: None of te BWMN guys really expected this one to make the cut, the author made it to introduce the force field mechanics to everyone but he didn't expect too much balance from it...the ramps are annoying-ish but I wouldn't say they're super wide...they look slightly bigger than Chain Reaction's to me...
The map feature is really interesting and I hope that map makers use it more...
Are the mapmakers actually capable of making their own terrain?
Some doodad tiles have properties such as blocking vision (for ground units) or providing cover (also for ground units). And some of them are completely passable (i.e. units can walk all over them), so you can use those to get some neat effects...
But for details I'd prefer to refer you to a complete guide I wrote about this on BWMN, so I do not need to type it all up again [and it has even been linked before by traceurling, so read it if you really want to know]
On March 15 2013 07:31 Freakling wrote: Some doodad tiles have properties such as blocking vision (for ground units) or providing cover (also for ground units). And some of them are completely passable (i.e. units can walk all over them), so you can use those to get some neat effects...
But for details I'd prefer to refer you to a complete guide I wrote about this on BWMN, so I do not need to type it all up again [and it has even been linked before by traceurling, so read it if you really want to know]
I read it and I started asking myself, Why don't the mapmakers make terrain that suits their purpose.
I mean I've seen a lot of custom unit models (basically all SC2 remade and a couple hero units etc etc). If making custom models is possible wouldn't making terrain be possible to?
Or are you just unable to launch maps with new "custom" terrain without changing the game version somehow?
You could certainly change tile properties in the StarCraft data files, or change the bitmaps to make terrain look differently, or whatever. But a map using that would require a mod to launch to work properly and hence not be a proper melee map any more.
On March 15 2013 07:48 Freakling wrote: You could certainly change tile properties in the StarCraft data files, or change the bitmaps to make terrain look differently, or whatever. But a map using that would require a mod to launch to work properly and hence not be a proper melee map any more.
I am kind of angry at Blizzard, right now for not patching that over the course of the 10 years that they were bug fixing the game.
I mean doing the above could have possibly taken mapmaking to a whole new level.
One more question: Can you use more than a single tile set on a single map?
No. The tileset is just a variable specified somewhere in the map header. SCMDraft has an option to change the tileset of a map, which basically does only changes that setting and keeps the tile indices for the map terrain. However, since not all tileset palettes match up, you can end up with a mess. Jungle, Desert, Twilight and Ice convert into each other though (having basically the same terrain structure... Although sunken/raised ground is water on ice maps, for example...)
If you really want to be angry at blizzard, be angry about them never fixing bugged terrain levels for many ramps, which effectively prevents the use of terrain types such as High Outpost, high sunken ground or high high Compound....
On March 15 2013 08:02 Freakling wrote: No. The tileset is just a variable specified somewhere in the map header. SCMDraft has an option to change the tileset of a map, which basically does only changes that setting and keeps the tile indices for the map terrain. However, since not all tileset palettes match up, you can end up with a mess. Jungle, Desert, Twilight and Ice convert into each other though (having basically the same terrain structure... Although sunken/raised ground is water on ice maps, for example...)
If you really want to be angry at blizzard, be angry about them never fixing bugged terrain levels for many ramps, which effectively prevents the use of terrain types such as High Outpost, high sunken ground or high high Compound....
Any chance you could explain why these terrain types are bugged? You seem to be really knowledgable about the editor and its pretty interesting. Or is there a resource where I can read these things?
On March 15 2013 08:02 Freakling wrote: No. The tileset is just a variable specified somewhere in the map header. SCMDraft has an option to change the tileset of a map, which basically does only changes that setting and keeps the tile indices for the map terrain. However, since not all tileset palettes match up, you can end up with a mess. Jungle, Desert, Twilight and Ice convert into each other though (having basically the same terrain structure... Although sunken/raised ground is water on ice maps, for example...)
If you really want to be angry at blizzard, be angry about them never fixing bugged terrain levels for many ramps, which effectively prevents the use of terrain types such as High Outpost, high sunken ground or high high Compound....
Any chance you could explain why these terrain types are bugged? You seem to be really knowledgable about the editor and its pretty interesting. Or is there a resource where I can read these things?
Freakling is your resource... I'm confident when I say his knowledge of BW Mapping is unmatched in the world, even by Korean mappers...
Also my guess is because of the absence of reversed ramps provided by blizzard forces mappers to make their own ramps, but for those terrain types it's impossible for some reason to make nonbugged ramps? Just my guess though, Freakling will prolly know...
On March 15 2013 08:02 Freakling wrote: No. The tileset is just a variable specified somewhere in the map header. SCMDraft has an option to change the tileset of a map, which basically does only changes that setting and keeps the tile indices for the map terrain. However, since not all tileset palettes match up, you can end up with a mess. Jungle, Desert, Twilight and Ice convert into each other though (having basically the same terrain structure... Although sunken/raised ground is water on ice maps, for example...)
If you really want to be angry at blizzard, be angry about them never fixing bugged terrain levels for many ramps, which effectively prevents the use of terrain types such as High Outpost, high sunken ground or high high Compound....
Any chance you could explain why these terrain types are bugged? You seem to be really knowledgable about the editor and its pretty interesting. Or is there a resource where I can read these things?
Freakling is your resource... I'm confident when I say his knowledge of BW Mapping is unmatched in the world, even by Korean mappers...
Also my guess is because of the absence of reversed ramps provided by blizzard forces mappers to make their own ramps, but for those terrain types it's impossible for some reason to make nonbugged ramps? Just my guess though, Freakling will prolly know...
By bugged ramps do you mean the 2 small unit size ramps?
because even with that issue you could still make fairly balanced maps with flatground and wider ramps used for other purposes AND has KESPA ever tried making maps on those tilesets?
I believe he means ramps where the high ground low ground thing is messed up with weird vision and miss chances...and unit pathing...idk well wait for Freakling to explain everything
Those ramps consist of low ground tiles, though they connect medium to high ground. More or less blind units (they can see the ramp, but not the surroundings), that miss half their shots, ensue...
On March 16 2013 01:30 traceurling wrote: I believe he means ramps where the high ground low ground thing is messed up with weird vision and miss chances...and unit pathing...idk well wait for Freakling to explain everything
I know non standard blizzard ramps are usually like that cause they're actually a buncha different terrains combined together to make the ramp go a way that wasnti n the actual blizzard thing..
I finally downloaded 2.5 and was trying out and was playing some of these maps... how do you FFE PvZ on Luna the Final in the top left position o_O The ramp is so far forward compared to the natural nexus that it takes 3 gateways and a forge to wall it off vertically and diagonally can't protect the expansion and the ramp at the same time without about an equal number of buildings or leaving a massive attack path for runbys.
On March 16 2013 15:39 Falling wrote: I finally downloaded 2.5 and was trying out and was playing some of these maps... how do you FFE PvZ on Luna the Final in the top left position o_O The ramp is so far forward compared to the natural nexus that it takes 3 gateways and a forge to wall it off vertically and diagonally can't protect the expansion and the ramp at the same time without about an equal number of buildings or leaving a massive attack path for runbys.
Luna was before FFE was invented right? Or was popular so it wasn't part of metagame...iCCup prolly keeps Luna because it's a classical map in SC history...just 1 base play or 2 gate opening
On March 16 2013 15:55 Falling wrote: Ok, I assumed that 2.5 would only have modern maps seems as they were getting rid of Triathalon and Troy. It really did seem like an old school map.
Ya just go like 2gate or 1gate tech in that base prolly. you can FFE at the other bases pretty safely i think, bottom right is esp nice for it.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.iccup.com/upload/images/news/mfa/mappack25.png)
Faoi, but hopefully these maps will have a longer staying time and impact with the community.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ikKlEOV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UWaKGhw.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YH2w4FF.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.iccup.com/upload/images/news/mfa/n400px-WindAndCloud.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/4/49/Central_Districts.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/d/df/Central_Plains_beta.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/9/9c/Troy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/6/6a/271_Triathlon.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/1/11/Roadrunner.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-hidden/bakuryu2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x0BGnMy.jpg)
[and it has even been linked before by traceurling, so read it if you really want to know]
