Looks like ssl is back on track. A full translation is going to be very hard for me to do as I don't have that much time to spare(+my Korean is still barely intermediate) But the gist of it is that after a lot of support from both TL and the Korean community + a ton of help from Kim Carrier and ์ด์น์(not sure who this is) - he has decided to not quit. There will be very strict rules and policies in place to stop match fixing. Not sure about a date yet.
Hi everybody, this is Sonic. It's been a while but I'm gonna put on my serious hat once again and post an update. There were those of you who told me it was the right decision to quit the SSL, but others told me to think it over again, worried for me, and gave me some sound advice. Some even offered to lend me help if I was afraid of doing it alone. To reiterate, Shinbal farm [his company] employees and afreeca helped me put on the finals of SSL7, but that was purely because our employees were too nice to say no and afreeca was just thankful for brining in more viewers. The burden of tying up loose ends and making it actually happen always fell on me, and me alone. Of course, that also meant I didn't have to share the sense of accomplishment I got, but I had to weather a lot of harsh feedback alone at times.
On that momentous day, a certain report made me feel like somebody just lowered a hammer on the back of my head. Although I may come off as a blabbering fool who doesn't care about anything and gets into fights with his viewers, deep inside I am very sensitive. Oftentimes after I finish my stream, I get hurt by some nasty comments left by the viewers, and then get uplifted again by somebody else's comment saying it was fun to watch. Watching me go through the comments after my casts will make me seem like a psychopath. To be honest, I was afraid. What if this had happened not during some all-star event match, but the actual SSL8? What if I really did become the last hope of reviving BW and carrying its legacy, and something like this happened...? I didn't know what to do.
At first, all I could think was I'm gonna find this asshole and prosecute him, but running a business [he is the CEO of Shinbal Farm] while pursuing litigation posed a serious burden on me, and I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't be able to manage both my business and SSL with all of its problems and baggage. After I wrote that SSL would no longer continue, I met a lot of people who told me that I had made a rash decision, that match fixing can be prevented through taking precautionary measures. Some told me that I should have spoken out if I was that stressed out. Some offered me help in the form of legal services, and some whom I never would have thought possible to work with offered to help me run the league. They also gave me some constructive criticism that was much needed. I spent about two weeks wandering around, sometimes getting yelled at by my seniors, and had a lot of time to think things through.
I am embarrassed that I am going back on my words, and am deeply sorry for the fans of BW and innocent players who were held to the public's scrutiny after the scandal, but I want to start again. I won't be able to do everything myself, but the areas I lack, if the players and fans can correct me, sometimes yell at me for being an imbecile, and support me, I want to start with SSL8 once again.
The good news I mentioned earlier is: Kim Carrier and Lee Seung Won [best commentator ever, ex-MSL caster] have agreed to help me out whenever help is needed. They will help me commentate starting from the Ro32. It will be me casting, and Kim Carrier and Lee Seung Won commentating. Even if you hate my casting, you can't deny that you want to see some BW action narrated by Kim Carrier and Lee Seung Won.
If you can please forgive me for my rash decision, I am prepared to start this up once again. I cannot apologize enough for all the fans I disappointed. Also, I want to thank those of you who offered me help, or even yelled at me for being dumb. I want to give a special thanks to Kim Carrier and Lee Seung Won, who gave me courage and advice. We will be setting strict rules regarding illegal betting, and I will do my best to make a problem-free stream. All leagues and event matches will also resume at this time. I won't disappoint you fans; I will do my very best to prepare for SSL8. I will start from scratch and look for sponsors. Also although I am still quite terrible at it, I've been trying to put on different creative content on my stream. I am trying to find ways to make my casts more entertaining, so I hope you enjoy. I'll always be putting in a 120% effort to be a better Sonic. Please cheer for me.
Everybody who left me thousands of comments, emails and messages through Teamliquid and afreeca, I'm so very sorry. I've rewatched just the finals of SSL7 dozens of times so I can gain motivation to go forward, so please cheer for me.
He used to be a caster on MBCGame before this happened. Many agreed that he was the most knowledgeable and overall 'best' caster, OGN and MBC combined, earning him the nickname of 'casting bonjwa' or 'Seung Won-jwa'
An old Fomos interview with Lee Seung Won, translated by OpticalShot.
Video of him predicting KT vs T8 proleague match
Lee Seung Won saying "Stats' best chance is to rip out his mouse plug right now, because he has absolutely no chance now, there is nothing he can do to win this game!"
In case you've been living in blissful ignorance...
Don't be surprised if number of players are banned within next couple of days. Also, don't be surprised if there aren't any more SSL or SOSPA games.-Sonic
Which says that he concludes match-fixing is deeply rooted into the system. It's nearly impossible for one good man like him to fight and win against something so big.
On December 15 2012 13:20 Hesmyrr wrote: Hello this is Sonic.
I can't tell how much hours I sat in the table writing and deleting this announcement. First I have to apologize.
First regarding the investigation, according to info from them the cell phone number I got wasn't made using real name and without real evidence there seem to be little that cn be done.
While investigating this problem myself I heard lot of stories:
"Sonic, you can't catch them. There's no way those who got the money will report themselves and no broker goes around saying he is broker. Everyone - hyung (T/N = someone) you know, friend, cousins - could become one.. how naive..." etc.
Someone was curious why I made this public which killed my public income and someone is saying why I am doing such things when I could have made millions by joining forces with Toto agency myself.
Naturally I like earning money... but I don't want to betray someone just so I could eat twenty thousand won lunch when five thousand won ($4.65) food is plenty enough. So I wanted to continue investigating and solve this problem no matter how much stories I hear.
What I felt when doing this is that broker have quite a deep root. I am not doing this league behind protection of big orgnization and the players are uncontrated individuals, so brokers are far more easier to approach.
After growing league this much, and having gotten so much opportunity with sponsorships even this moment... such opportunities even being given to the players who adamantly stayed with BW... I wondered if I should continue with shadow of such fundemental problem.
I felt bare... and knew what to do and conclusion I drew after agonizing thinking was that I as individual can do nothing.
No matter how good opportunity is, no matter becomes of carrier I built up, I am convinced it is ridiculous for me to continue the league for my profit or sake of preservation.
I think those who love BW would eventully be disappointed more by burying this situation.
I do not own broadcast which have twenty or something official staff.
I admit common criticism such as "you suck at commentary/observing"; this is broadcast where commentary, observer, music, recording, feedback control, announcement, and schedule gets all done by me.
While I want to become someone who can satisfy everyone it's reality such thing is difficult.
The fact that I make this announcement is in no way saying there is those who play BW, BJ (TN: word for those who stream in Afreeca).
I hope no one who get this news choose to blame and be skeptical of Brood War and players itself.
This strlegue was closed because I realized that it is impossible for me to stop future possible matchfixing, and that me as individual is impossible to grow the league any further.
It was not easy. All time, effort, and money spent to reach this sitution... even when everyone called me crazy I invested all this truly as crazy person. So I am saying like crazy individual... I am abandoning everything I began even before becoming adult. I am not telling everyone to support me... but I hope nobody tries to make me feel more bad... please...
I don't know what to broadcast now, but I'll begin from very beginning.
Cooling off my head for a week then visitng you with new content.
I sincerely apologize for fans who truly love BW.
Sonic league will disappear, but BJ Sonic will not go away and disappoint you more.
8th or 9th... it is no longer possible, and SSL I began will be forgotten, but support from everyone will forever remain in my heart.
There will be no BW content anymore. Rarely when I want to play BW, I'll stream my personal playing, entertainig you despite I might get some criticisms.
I cried a lot after pulling curtains on Afreeca BW content I started with Sonic Starlecture. It feels like I, who can't drink, drunk enough to barf for entire week.
Can't think anything. Don't want to think anything nor meet someone, think about someone, do anything.
I once again apologize to everyone I met thorugh starleague.
I adamantly stuck with BW content from age of 19 to 25. I am afraid about starting afresh, giving up all the sponsors I had, but I'll approach this with a mindset I had when I was new.
While nothing may happen for awhile, justice will triumph and everything will eventually be revealed...
Thanks for everyone who filled cold lecture hall at the last 7th SSL finals.
Sorry for not having flamboyant and dramatic end.
From Monday I'll come back with entertaining broadcast.. Thanks. Sonic broadcast will no longer make any starleague nor any leagues.
indeed is bad but stupid google traslater is not clear
Long story short, someone reported to sonic that there's private betting thing related(just like what Savior did). He can't confirm that but in order to prevent those stupid shit, he did something(according to state, sonic gave free win but dunno who he gave free win cuz i don't follow this).
Someone who's good in translating KR > EN, finish this please.
Sonic: While broadcasting the matches today, I've gotten a tip from a reliable source that some players might have been contacted and/or related to illegal betting websites, and I did not think that it was right to continue with the matches without figuring out what was actually going on, especially for those who love BroodWar and players who are innocent. That's why I gave out immediate walkovers and ended the broadcast. Please do not assume that the players who played in the last match, as well as other players in the scene, and I'll investigate more on this issue.
I've done BW broadcasting for past 6 years, and now I feel like everything's collapsing around me. Right now, I don't have the time and will investigate more into this issue when I can.
BW is the game that we all worked for.
After receiving the BJ award on Tuesday, I'll find out what's going on and post another notice.
Once again, I'm very sorry.
I want to apologize again because this issue might have gotten too large, possibly out of my hands.
Personal note: Some things never change.
On December 11 2012 06:17 supernovamaniac wrote: NOTICE: From his fb post, summarizing:
Don't be surprised if number of players are banned within next couple of days. Also, don't be surprised if there aren't any more SSL or SOSPA games.
On December 12 2012 07:08 ArvickHero wrote: Probably by tomorrow we'll know who the matchfixers are, and all the details.
He's not mad, but rather very saddened. He understands how strong temptation is for someone who has no job and only gets money from streaming ..
Sonic has said he'll be doing SSL8, but probably without any sponsor support and possibly his last SC broadcast ever.
On December 12 2012 15:29 Hesmyrr wrote: <Kimoleon> got info on monday during nto clan match, there was a connection with a sasultoto (company name I think) broker and confirmed it <Kimoleon> many players and the leader refused the offer of matchfixing, but one player(don't tell whether he was from NTO clan or not) has confessed to his match fixing, through that player have proof (apparently he gave testimony that other players in Sonic All Stars and other leagues could also have gotten involved) that others in sonic all stars may have match fixed <Kimoleon> but on the bright side through this event investigation we found numerous players, clan masters, even my broadcasting managers have confirmed refusing these brokers. (It seems that there is no evidence tying NTO Clan with the match fixing) <Kimoleon> though many confirmations, we found out information on who tried to recruit the NTO clan, that certain gamer was threatened that they would release his name on the matchfixing list, currently linked to this event the truth has been spread from my police investigation request <Kimoleon> even if the past giant kespa organization could not stop the contact between these brokers and players, how could I BJ Sonic alone prevent hundreds of ppl, bj, etc them? it's so draining and exhausting.. <Kimoleon> these last two days, I've fallen into a state of dejection and helplessness. <Kimoleon> I was told I could not solve this on my own, the best case is with investigate these brokers who were the ones running the matchfixing, with the checkcall records and the owner of these numbers will be under investigation. <Kimoleon> this might be tough for people who are playing starcraft, but I have to say this <Kimoleon> (long list of criminal offenses they can be charged with, interfereance with business, gambling, cheating etc) cheating etc) <Kimoleon> when a broker approaches you and says, "if it's just two of us its ok you know?", "after a meal some drinks, I'll give you some cash, they can't catch us. no proof", "we'll take it to our graves" will the be appraoch of these people. In this world, nothing can stay secret forever. <Kimoleon> (more talk, how even his broadcast manager got offered, what if they get caught, will they pay their lawyer fees etc) <Kimoleon> until this problem is solved, from my senior year in high school I put my golden years into starcraft1 broodwar... starting my sonic star lessons, amateur leagues, and now passing 2.5 years bj starleague.. after being released from the army I couldn't forget it so I started again, while running a small business couldn't let this go, even as it gives me stress can't let go.. this starcraft league that I love cannot go on. <Kimoleon> 8th bj starleague connected thousands of dollars from sponsors, big companies with good offers.. stopped all these current talks, the chance given to me, sponsor, offers so that I can put all my effort into ending this event which made fun of viewers and give mistrust to honest players. If this cannot be solved I'm willing to cut my eonnections with starcraft. (Comment: statement seems to imply that even if this offers aren't retracted Sonic himself isn't going to proceed with these offers until this problem has been resolved) further statement telling everyone not to speculate with netizens being netizens, telling involved parties to give him info and he won't press criminal charges clarified some info, included minor change from secondary edit
Probably by tomorrow we'll know who the matchfixers are, and all the details.
He's not mad, but rather very saddened. He understands how strong temptation is for someone who has no job and only gets money from streaming ..
Sonic has said he'll be doing SSL8, but probably without any sponsor support and possibly his last SC broadcast ever. Regardless of whether it is or not, godspeed and have strength Sonic.
On December 12 2012 06:56 Jaaaaasper wrote: Crap. Hope ssl still happens. Don't let the scum ruin it for you sonic, your better than they can ever hope to be.
God damn it not this shit again...I guess some things never change, if someone can be convinced to matchfix in an amateur league it makes me all the more worried that this stuff possibly happens in Starcraft 2 leagues as well.
On December 12 2012 07:08 ArvickHero wrote: Probably by tomorrow we'll know who the matchfixers are, and all the details.
He's not mad, but rather very saddened. He understands how strong temptation is for someone who has no job and only gets money from streaming ..
Sonic has said he'll be doing SSL8, but probably without any sponsor support and possibly his last SC broadcast ever. Regardless of whether it is or not, godspeed and have strength Sonic.
Thanks for the update.. it's in OP now. Somebody should probably make a thread when all the info comes out, so that people can share their "wtf"s there instead. This should serve a different purpose. Ah.. I hope Sonic reconsiders.. :|
I really hope that somehow Sonic finds the strength and will to continue SSL. The SSL7 finals was so amazing and we even had Kim Carry, it would so disheartening to know that SSL8 would be the last. I think SSL really gave many fans hope that our amateur scene was starting to breathe new life into the game, even without a proscene.
I hope for the best Sonic, thanks for being a beacon of light during Brood War's time of need. You're awesome.
On December 12 2012 07:27 Dodgin wrote: God damn it not this shit again...I guess some things never change, if someone can be convinced to matchfix in an amateur league it makes me all the more worried that this stuff possibly happens in Starcraft 2 leagues as well.
I'm pretty sure it does. SC2 has Pinnacle, one of the three world's biggest bookmakers, offering lines for many major events. BW never had this.
Seeing as SC2 is starting to announce the players in advance once again - knowing that it led to match fixing last time makes me wonder if this is a big deal anymore. People are probably fixing sc2 matches and it's a question of time before it surfaces. Curious to see who's been folding his games . . . Tempting to jump to conclusions but let's keep a cool head.
As for future BW tournaments - we need to step up as a community. Sonic has a too big of a burden. He's already hosting, commentating, finding sponsors etc etc etc etc. Did not need this
The audience at the SSL finals was as big as any non-grand final for an SC2 event in Korea. And it was an underground broadcast with next to no publicity. He had sponsors and pro-teams, and was growing his scene. And now this shit happens.
Match fixing started the end...and now it's the last dagger that stabs us in the heart right when things started to look up.
On December 12 2012 09:16 ShiroKaisen wrote: I can't believe this shit.
The audience at the SSL finals was as big as any non-grand final for an SC2 event in Korea. And it was an underground broadcast with next to no publicity. He had sponsors and pro-teams, and was growing his scene. And now this shit happens.
Match fixing started the end...and now it's the last dagger that stabs us in the heart right when things started to look up.
dude your last line, thats going down in BW's final history for shure.
On December 12 2012 09:25 Anomarad wrote: Is he not getting sponsors because of the match fixing? His last SSL was so successful I don't get why there wouldn't be any sponsors. :/
Maybe he'll change his mind after SSL8.
Sponsors fled from BW after He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named happened. And now, if it seems like to companies without a current stake in eSports that Brood War is nothing but a hive of match fixers - with a second scandal in three years - what incentive is there for them to sponsor it?
On December 12 2012 09:25 Anomarad wrote: Is he not getting sponsors because of the match fixing? His last SSL was so successful I don't get why there wouldn't be any sponsors. :/
Maybe he'll change his mind after SSL8.
Sponsors fled from BW after He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named happened. And now, if it seems like to companies without a current stake in eSports that Brood War is nothing but a hive of match fixers - with a second scandal in three years - what incentive is there for them to sponsor it?
The reality of the situation that people may or may not have want to admit though, is that for a sport or social phenomenon to be successful, it doesn't have to have merit, or quality, or even integrity, just mass appeal and corporate interest. Look at the number of scandals that occurs on a monthly or yearly basis in fields like professional cycling, or football, or formula-1 for instance. If significant enough capital or media capacity was behind BW it would succeed regardless in this day and age.
For people who don't have money or media attention and have to depend on the quality of their product to pull them through though, we are pretty fucked.
On December 12 2012 09:25 Anomarad wrote: Is he not getting sponsors because of the match fixing? His last SSL was so successful I don't get why there wouldn't be any sponsors. :/
Maybe he'll change his mind after SSL8.
Sponsors fled from BW after He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named happened. And now, if it seems like to companies without a current stake in eSports that Brood War is nothing but a hive of match fixers - with a second scandal in three years - what incentive is there for them to sponsor it?
The reality of the situation that people may or may not have want to admit though, is that for a sport or social phenomenon to be successful, it doesn't have to have merit, or quality, or even integrity, just mass appeal and corporate interest. Look at the number of scandals that occurs on a monthly or yearly basis in fields like professional cycling, or football, or formula-1 for instance. If significant enough capital or media capacity was behind BW it would succeed regardless in this day and age.
For people who don't have money or media attention and have to depend on the quality of their product to pull them through though, we are pretty fucked.
Yeah. Unfortunately, Brood War wasn't in a place where it could withstand the first scandal. This here is like stepping on someone's fingers while they're trying to freeclimb a cliff. It's just disgraceful.
Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck. What the hell is with this shit? Why has a matchfixing scandal never appeared in SC2? This is just bullshit. It just doesn't make sense why BW has to die like this. It just doesn't make sense.
On December 12 2012 10:36 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck. What the hell is with this shit? Why has a matchfixing scandal never appeared in SC2? This is just bullshit. It just doesn't make sense why BW has to die like this. It just doesn't make sense.
The incentive to cheat is often paralleled with the difficulty of the environment and the disparity of the standard of living, both games have very competitive and grueling practice regiments, but I honestly don't think there's any doubt that BW had a much more difficult time establishing itself and the individual commitments of the players and team leaders to make ends meet. The shit that boxer had to go through to create the teams just isn't comparable with the amount of pressure talented players in SC2 have to deal with. B-teamers in BW and even less achieving A-teamers get shafted and often live on very minimalistic standards with little disposable income, where as now there's so much money floating around comparatively in foreign SC2 tournaments and the general standard is very different.
On December 12 2012 09:06 Emon_ wrote: Seeing as SC2 is starting to announce the players in advance once again - knowing that it led to match fixing last time makes me wonder if this is a big deal anymore.
SC2 had an instance of match-fixing in an ICCUP tournament (back before ICCUP's SC2 guys split off into ESV), and both players (Coca and Byun) got something like an 8-month ban from all tournaments, on the basis that they actually made arraignments to fix the match during the streamed match, and were thus clearly too stupid to be fixing normally. It completely derailed Coca's career, because he got kicked out of his team house for the whole period, and came back a shadow of his former self. (Byun kinda recovered).
I think, though, the silver lining is that an aggressive response to even a hint of match fixing shows that's there's not a systemic rot. If, for instance, two people match fix and get kicked out right away, it could be better long-term for BW than if this came out after it was systemic. Savior match-fixing hurt the fans, but it was the fact that every other A-teamer was corrupt that killed BW. Both by casting a shadow over the whole industry and by eliminating the entire next generation who "should've" supplanted TBLS.
A match fixing scandal didn't kill SC2 (though LoL might), and the reason for that was because it was small and reacted to super-aggressively. I think this is a good chance for Sonic to prove he's not KeSPA, and to take aggressive action against the slightest hint of match-fixing, and thus maintain most of the luster of the SSL.
It would suck so hard to see the same fucking websites kill Korean BW twice.
Nice thing about foreign BW: There's zero incentive to match-fix, because there's so little money involved.
On December 12 2012 08:49 PiPoGevy wrote: Nooo, have u seen the crowd in OSL when it comes to Star2, its dead, this was my new life
Have you seen the crowd in anything that's not the OSL? sc2 is only not very popular in korea.
Really depends on how you define "not popular". SC2 is starting to regularly get trounced by LoL in the ratings, in part because of a long period of "Turtle into mass infestor" leading to incredibly boring games (and PvZ being entirely broken and awful). Blizz has been making a lot of semi-competent decisions with HotS, but it might be too little too late. If SC2 doesn't see its viewership start climbing again soon, it'll probably go under.
On December 12 2012 09:25 Anomarad wrote: Is he not getting sponsors because of the match fixing? His last SSL was so successful I don't get why there wouldn't be any sponsors. :/
Maybe he'll change his mind after SSL8.
Sponsors fled from BW after He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named happened. And now, if it seems like to companies without a current stake in eSports that Brood War is nothing but a hive of match fixers - with a second scandal in three years - what incentive is there for them to sponsor it?
I find it hard to believe the entire professional scene lost sponsors over eleven match fixers. Wouldn't the stagnation of the metagame along with SC2's uncertain future in Korea and LoL's rise to prominence have spurred a sponsorship exodus?
On December 12 2012 09:06 Emon_ wrote: Seeing as SC2 is starting to announce the players in advance once again - knowing that it led to match fixing last time makes me wonder if this is a big deal anymore.
SC2 had an instance of match-fixing in an ICCUP tournament (back before ICCUP's SC2 guys split off into ESV), and both players (Coca and Byun) got something like an 8-month ban from all tournaments, on the basis that they actually made arraignments to fix the match during the streamed match, and were thus clearly too stupid to be fixing normally. It completely derailed Coca's career, because he got kicked out of his team house for the whole period, and came back a shadow of his former self. (Byun kinda recovered).
I think, though, the silver lining is that an aggressive response to even a hint of match fixing shows that's there's not a systemic rot. If, for instance, two people match fix and get kicked out right away, it could be better long-term for BW than if this came out after it was systemic. Savior match-fixing hurt the fans, but it was the fact that every other A-teamer was corrupt that killed BW. Both by casting a shadow over the whole industry and by eliminating the entire next generation who "should've" supplanted TBLS.
A match fixing scandal didn't kill SC2 (though LoL might), and the reason for that was because it was small and reacted to super-aggressively. I think this is a good chance for Sonic to prove he's not KeSPA, and to take aggressive action against the slightest hint of match-fixing, and thus maintain most of the luster of the SSL.
It would suck so hard to see the same fucking websites kill Korean BW twice.
Nice thing about foreign BW: There's zero incentive to match-fix, because there's so little money involved.
On December 12 2012 08:49 PiPoGevy wrote: Nooo, have u seen the crowd in OSL when it comes to Star2, its dead, this was my new life
Have you seen the crowd in anything that's not the OSL? sc2 is only not very popular in korea.
Really depends on how you define "not popular". SC2 is starting to regularly get trounced by LoL in the ratings, in part because of a long period of "Turtle into mass infestor" leading to incredibly boring games (and PvZ being entirely broken and awful). Blizz has been making a lot of semi-competent decisions with HotS, but it might be too little too late. If SC2 doesn't see its viewership start climbing again soon, it'll probably go under.
That's a very good point. It took almost ten years for the Brood War metagame to stagnate into something so incredibly balanced. It took SC2 less than two years to stagnate into a Zerg-favoured metagame.
On December 12 2012 11:13 Ribbon wrote: Really depends on how you define "not popular". SC2 is starting to regularly get trounced by LoL in the ratings, in part because of a long period of "Turtle into mass infestor" leading to incredibly boring games (and PvZ being entirely broken and awful). Blizz has been making a lot of semi-competent decisions with HotS, but it might be too little too late. If SC2 doesn't see its viewership start climbing again soon, it'll probably go under.
It'l go back up with hots and lotv. Not only that but the viewership is actually rising. It's just not going up as fast as LoL.
On December 12 2012 09:06 Emon_ wrote: Seeing as SC2 is starting to announce the players in advance once again - knowing that it led to match fixing last time makes me wonder if this is a big deal anymore.
SC2 had an instance of match-fixing in an ICCUP tournament (back before ICCUP's SC2 guys split off into ESV), and both players (Coca and Byun) got something like an 8-month ban from all tournaments, on the basis that they actually made arraignments to fix the match during the streamed match, and were thus clearly too stupid to be fixing normally. It completely derailed Coca's career, because he got kicked out of his team house for the whole period, and came back a shadow of his former self. (Byun kinda recovered).
I think, though, the silver lining is that an aggressive response to even a hint of match fixing shows that's there's not a systemic rot. If, for instance, two people match fix and get kicked out right away, it could be better long-term for BW than if this came out after it was systemic. Savior match-fixing hurt the fans, but it was the fact that every other A-teamer was corrupt that killed BW. Both by casting a shadow over the whole industry and by eliminating the entire next generation who "should've" supplanted TBLS.
A match fixing scandal didn't kill SC2 (though LoL might), and the reason for that was because it was small and reacted to super-aggressively. I think this is a good chance for Sonic to prove he's not KeSPA, and to take aggressive action against the slightest hint of match-fixing, and thus maintain most of the luster of the SSL.
It would suck so hard to see the same fucking websites kill Korean BW twice.
Nice thing about foreign BW: There's zero incentive to match-fix, because there's so little money involved.
On December 12 2012 08:49 PiPoGevy wrote: Nooo, have u seen the crowd in OSL when it comes to Star2, its dead, this was my new life
Have you seen the crowd in anything that's not the OSL? sc2 is only not very popular in korea.
Really depends on how you define "not popular". SC2 is starting to regularly get trounced by LoL in the ratings, in part because of a long period of "Turtle into mass infestor" leading to incredibly boring games (and PvZ being entirely broken and awful). Blizz has been making a lot of semi-competent decisions with HotS, but it might be too little too late. If SC2 doesn't see its viewership start climbing again soon, it'll probably go under.
That's silly.
GOM is doing higher numbers than last year, NASL is confirmed for two more seasons, IPL5 is confirmed for four seasons in 2013, and while LoL is beating SC2, it doesn't mean that it's going to die. It's laughable that because it isn't as big as LoL that it means it's going to die. That's like if someone came up to me and told me that the NBA or MLB is going to go under because the NFL gets 10x the viewership. Against Dota2, SC2 is still bigger viewer wise if you don't count The International that got a huge bump due to the Valve hype.
I'm fine admitting that SC2 is smaller than LoL, but the idea that it's going to go under is ridiculous. SC2 is doing waaaaaaaaay better outside of Korea than Brood War ever did. Just because it isn't getting millions of viewers means it is going to die. If every e-sport had to get LoL numbers or it would go under, then e-sports would literally be League of Legends and everything else would be gone.
Also comparing Coca-Byun to the BW match fixing or this is hilarious. Byun and Coca were just being dumb friends who didn't know what they were doing. Coca's career would have been fine, but Slayers went under and was doing terribly the last few months of their existence. Byun made a Code S semifinals since his return from suspension and is doing just fine.
On December 12 2012 09:25 Anomarad wrote: Is he not getting sponsors because of the match fixing? His last SSL was so successful I don't get why there wouldn't be any sponsors. :/
Maybe he'll change his mind after SSL8.
Sponsors fled from BW after He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named happened. And now, if it seems like to companies without a current stake in eSports that Brood War is nothing but a hive of match fixers - with a second scandal in three years - what incentive is there for them to sponsor it?
I find it hard to believe the entire professional scene lost sponsors over eleven match fixers. Wouldn't the stagnation of the metagame along with SC2's uncertain future in Korea and LoL's rise to prominence have spurred a sponsorship exodus?
It was a combination of the lawsuit and the matchfixing scandal. LoL had nothing to do with it - LoL didn't start to rise in Korea until after the Jin Air OSL. By the time the next season of Proleague started, we'd already lost five pro-gaming sponsors and four teams, one of which was on life support.
It's like the commentators in this video say. Progaming was marketed as a pure sport of love and passion by the companies sponsoring it. And the match-fixing scandal destroyed that entire marketing image.
On December 12 2012 09:25 Anomarad wrote: Is he not getting sponsors because of the match fixing? His last SSL was so successful I don't get why there wouldn't be any sponsors. :/
Maybe he'll change his mind after SSL8.
Sponsors fled from BW after He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named happened. And now, if it seems like to companies without a current stake in eSports that Brood War is nothing but a hive of match fixers - with a second scandal in three years - what incentive is there for them to sponsor it?
I find it hard to believe the entire professional scene lost sponsors over eleven match fixers. Wouldn't the stagnation of the metagame along with SC2's uncertain future in Korea and LoL's rise to prominence have spurred a sponsorship exodus?
Why did the metagame get stagnant in the first place?
The generation that was supposed to replace TBLS never came, because they were match-fixing.
Also, Proleague was in a state of collapse long before LoL came out in Korea (a collapse the SC2 switch hasn't helped with, with Air Force ACE going out, and Team 8 still sponsorless and losing players to foreign teams)
On December 12 2012 09:06 Emon_ wrote: Seeing as SC2 is starting to announce the players in advance once again - knowing that it led to match fixing last time makes me wonder if this is a big deal anymore.
SC2 had an instance of match-fixing in an ICCUP tournament (back before ICCUP's SC2 guys split off into ESV), and both players (Coca and Byun) got something like an 8-month ban from all tournaments, on the basis that they actually made arraignments to fix the match during the streamed match, and were thus clearly too stupid to be fixing normally. It completely derailed Coca's career, because he got kicked out of his team house for the whole period, and came back a shadow of his former self. (Byun kinda recovered).
I think, though, the silver lining is that an aggressive response to even a hint of match fixing shows that's there's not a systemic rot. If, for instance, two people match fix and get kicked out right away, it could be better long-term for BW than if this came out after it was systemic. Savior match-fixing hurt the fans, but it was the fact that every other A-teamer was corrupt that killed BW. Both by casting a shadow over the whole industry and by eliminating the entire next generation who "should've" supplanted TBLS.
A match fixing scandal didn't kill SC2 (though LoL might), and the reason for that was because it was small and reacted to super-aggressively. I think this is a good chance for Sonic to prove he's not KeSPA, and to take aggressive action against the slightest hint of match-fixing, and thus maintain most of the luster of the SSL.
It would suck so hard to see the same fucking websites kill Korean BW twice.
Nice thing about foreign BW: There's zero incentive to match-fix, because there's so little money involved.
On December 12 2012 11:12 Gebus wrote:
On December 12 2012 08:49 PiPoGevy wrote: Nooo, have u seen the crowd in OSL when it comes to Star2, its dead, this was my new life
Have you seen the crowd in anything that's not the OSL? sc2 is only not very popular in korea.
Really depends on how you define "not popular". SC2 is starting to regularly get trounced by LoL in the ratings, in part because of a long period of "Turtle into mass infestor" leading to incredibly boring games (and PvZ being entirely broken and awful). Blizz has been making a lot of semi-competent decisions with HotS, but it might be too little too late. If SC2 doesn't see its viewership start climbing again soon, it'll probably go under.
That's silly.
GOM is doing higher numbers than last year, NASL is confirmed for two more seasons, IPL5 is confirmed for four seasons in 2013, and while LoL is beating SC2, it doesn't mean that it's going to die. It's laughable that because it isn't as big as LoL that it means it's going to die. That's like if someone came up to me and told me that the NBA or MLB is going to go under because the NFL gets 10x the viewership. Against Dota2, SC2 is still bigger viewer wise if you don't count The International that got a huge bump due to the Valve hype.
But it's a stagnant number. The rampant growth has stopped.
It's certainly possible HotS boosts the numbers. And it's certainly possible that LoL actually saves SC2, because attaching an SC2 tournament to an LoL tournament is cheaper than doing an SC2 tournament as a standalone (for a long time, I hoped BW could leech of SC2 that way and survive in some form. It still theoretically could, even if it seems unlikely now). But no one's making money in SC2 now, and the growth that made them think they'd make money later has stopped. It's certainly not dooooooommmed. HotS is pretty clearly a better game than WoL at this point, and that's a widespread opinion, so HotS can inject some life and maybe....
We're getting off topic, though. I was comparing a match-fixing scandal in another game to this one in the SSL to indicate that a scandal like this doesn't have to be world-ending, if it's a small one (and we don't know the scale yet).
Also comparing Coca-Byun to the BW match fixing or this is hilarious.
I'm not. I'm comparing it to the SSL match-fixing, and making a comparison. If it was two idiots, then the SSL can probably recover (presuming Sonic doesn't get disillusioned). If multiple matches were fixed, though, then yeah. That's super bad.
The best outcome, of course, is that there's no match-fixing at all and it's a false rumor. Then everything's cool, and Sonic got to make a big public show of "I'm not even slightly okay with match-fixing!!", which could help.
On December 12 2012 09:06 Emon_ wrote: Seeing as SC2 is starting to announce the players in advance once again - knowing that it led to match fixing last time makes me wonder if this is a big deal anymore.
SC2 had an instance of match-fixing in an ICCUP tournament (back before ICCUP's SC2 guys split off into ESV), and both players (Coca and Byun) got something like an 8-month ban from all tournaments, on the basis that they actually made arraignments to fix the match during the streamed match, and were thus clearly too stupid to be fixing normally. It completely derailed Coca's career, because he got kicked out of his team house for the whole period, and came back a shadow of his former self. (Byun kinda recovered).
I think, though, the silver lining is that an aggressive response to even a hint of match fixing shows that's there's not a systemic rot. If, for instance, two people match fix and get kicked out right away, it could be better long-term for BW than if this came out after it was systemic. Savior match-fixing hurt the fans, but it was the fact that every other A-teamer was corrupt that killed BW. Both by casting a shadow over the whole industry and by eliminating the entire next generation who "should've" supplanted TBLS.
A match fixing scandal didn't kill SC2 (though LoL might), and the reason for that was because it was small and reacted to super-aggressively. I think this is a good chance for Sonic to prove he's not KeSPA, and to take aggressive action against the slightest hint of match-fixing, and thus maintain most of the luster of the SSL.
It would suck so hard to see the same fucking websites kill Korean BW twice.
Nice thing about foreign BW: There's zero incentive to match-fix, because there's so little money involved.
On December 12 2012 11:12 Gebus wrote:
On December 12 2012 08:49 PiPoGevy wrote: Nooo, have u seen the crowd in OSL when it comes to Star2, its dead, this was my new life
Have you seen the crowd in anything that's not the OSL? sc2 is only not very popular in korea.
Really depends on how you define "not popular". SC2 is starting to regularly get trounced by LoL in the ratings, in part because of a long period of "Turtle into mass infestor" leading to incredibly boring games (and PvZ being entirely broken and awful). Blizz has been making a lot of semi-competent decisions with HotS, but it might be too little too late. If SC2 doesn't see its viewership start climbing again soon, it'll probably go under.
That's silly.
GOM is doing higher numbers than last year, NASL is confirmed for two more seasons, IPL5 is confirmed for four seasons in 2013, and while LoL is beating SC2, it doesn't mean that it's going to die. It's laughable that because it isn't as big as LoL that it means it's going to die. That's like if someone came up to me and told me that the NBA or MLB is going to go under because the NFL gets 10x the viewership. Against Dota2, SC2 is still bigger viewer wise if you don't count The International that got a huge bump due to the Valve hype.
I'm fine admitting that SC2 is smaller than LoL, but the idea that it's going to go under is ridiculous. SC2 is doing waaaaaaaaay better outside of Korea than Brood War ever did. Just because it isn't getting millions of viewers means it is going to die. If every e-sport had to get LoL numbers or it would go under, then e-sports would literally be League of Legends and everything else would be gone.
Also comparing Coca-Byun to the BW match fixing or this is hilarious. Byun and Coca were just being dumb friends who didn't know what they were doing. Coca's career would have been fine, but Slayers went under and was doing terribly the last few months of their existence. Byun made a Code S semifinals since his return from suspension and is doing just fine.
can we keep SC2 vs BW bullshit out of this thread. Seriously, stop. This is not the place to do it.
The reason why this instance of matchfixing is so serious is because apparently it has been going on for a while, and it involves at least a top level player. Possibly since SSL6, we'll find out for sure soon enough.
On December 12 2012 09:06 Emon_ wrote: Seeing as SC2 is starting to announce the players in advance once again - knowing that it led to match fixing last time makes me wonder if this is a big deal anymore.
SC2 had an instance of match-fixing in an ICCUP tournament (back before ICCUP's SC2 guys split off into ESV), and both players (Coca and Byun) got something like an 8-month ban from all tournaments, on the basis that they actually made arraignments to fix the match during the streamed match, and were thus clearly too stupid to be fixing normally. It completely derailed Coca's career, because he got kicked out of his team house for the whole period, and came back a shadow of his former self. (Byun kinda recovered).
I think, though, the silver lining is that an aggressive response to even a hint of match fixing shows that's there's not a systemic rot. If, for instance, two people match fix and get kicked out right away, it could be better long-term for BW than if this came out after it was systemic. Savior match-fixing hurt the fans, but it was the fact that every other A-teamer was corrupt that killed BW. Both by casting a shadow over the whole industry and by eliminating the entire next generation who "should've" supplanted TBLS.
A match fixing scandal didn't kill SC2 (though LoL might), and the reason for that was because it was small and reacted to super-aggressively. I think this is a good chance for Sonic to prove he's not KeSPA, and to take aggressive action against the slightest hint of match-fixing, and thus maintain most of the luster of the SSL.
It would suck so hard to see the same fucking websites kill Korean BW twice.
Nice thing about foreign BW: There's zero incentive to match-fix, because there's so little money involved.
On December 12 2012 11:12 Gebus wrote:
On December 12 2012 08:49 PiPoGevy wrote: Nooo, have u seen the crowd in OSL when it comes to Star2, its dead, this was my new life
Have you seen the crowd in anything that's not the OSL? sc2 is only not very popular in korea.
Really depends on how you define "not popular". SC2 is starting to regularly get trounced by LoL in the ratings, in part because of a long period of "Turtle into mass infestor" leading to incredibly boring games (and PvZ being entirely broken and awful). Blizz has been making a lot of semi-competent decisions with HotS, but it might be too little too late. If SC2 doesn't see its viewership start climbing again soon, it'll probably go under.
That's silly.
GOM is doing higher numbers than last year, NASL is confirmed for two more seasons, IPL5 is confirmed for four seasons in 2013, and while LoL is beating SC2, it doesn't mean that it's going to die. It's laughable that because it isn't as big as LoL that it means it's going to die. That's like if someone came up to me and told me that the NBA or MLB is going to go under because the NFL gets 10x the viewership. Against Dota2, SC2 is still bigger viewer wise if you don't count The International that got a huge bump due to the Valve hype.
I'm fine admitting that SC2 is smaller than LoL, but the idea that it's going to go under is ridiculous. SC2 is doing waaaaaaaaay better outside of Korea than Brood War ever did. Just because it isn't getting millions of viewers means it is going to die. If every e-sport had to get LoL numbers or it would go under, then e-sports would literally be League of Legends and everything else would be gone.
Also comparing Coca-Byun to the BW match fixing or this is hilarious. Byun and Coca were just being dumb friends who didn't know what they were doing. Coca's career would have been fine, but Slayers went under and was doing terribly the last few months of their existence. Byun made a Code S semifinals since his return from suspension and is doing just fine.
can we keep SC2 vs BW bullshit out of this thread. Seriously, stop. This is not the place to do it.
The reason why this instance of matchfixing is so serious is because apparently it has been going on for a while. Possibly since SSL6, we'll find out for sure soon enough.
On December 12 2012 09:25 Anomarad wrote: Is he not getting sponsors because of the match fixing? His last SSL was so successful I don't get why there wouldn't be any sponsors. :/
Maybe he'll change his mind after SSL8.
Sponsors fled from BW after He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named happened. And now, if it seems like to companies without a current stake in eSports that Brood War is nothing but a hive of match fixers - with a second scandal in three years - what incentive is there for them to sponsor it?
I find it hard to believe the entire professional scene lost sponsors over eleven match fixers. Wouldn't the stagnation of the metagame along with SC2's uncertain future in Korea and LoL's rise to prominence have spurred a sponsorship exodus?
dunno what ppl are saying about BW stagnating by the last real Proleague. If you mean like the top 4 players always dominating, yea I guess, but the game was still evolving and entertaining as hell.
Shirokaisen explains it pretty well (sponsors were hella concerned about image) couple posts above.
On December 12 2012 12:13 ArvickHero wrote: dunno what ppl are saying about BW stagnating by the last real Proleague. If you mean like the top 4 players always dominating, yea I guess, but the game was still evolving and entertaining as hell.
Shirokaisen explains it pretty well (sponsors were hella concerned about image) couple posts above.
One of the main reasons why BW continued to evolve (even during the last pl) was cause of new kespa maps every season. Won't be getting any more of those so the meta game is bound to stagnate now (not to mention the end of properly televised proleague / OSL / MSL / teamhouses / insane practice hours from the best players on the planet)..
On December 12 2012 12:13 ArvickHero wrote: dunno what ppl are saying about BW stagnating by the last real Proleague. If you mean like the top 4 players always dominating, yea I guess, but the game was still evolving and entertaining as hell.
Shirokaisen explains it pretty well (sponsors were hella concerned about image) couple posts above.
The top 4? Are we talking about Jangbi, Fantasy, JD and Flash? The game wasn't stagnating. Jangbi might have won back-to-back OSLs but I wouldn't say he was dominating either. Let us not forget about the zerg resistance either. With fewer tournaments we had more focus.
On December 12 2012 12:13 ArvickHero wrote: dunno what ppl are saying about BW stagnating by the last real Proleague. If you mean like the top 4 players always dominating, yea I guess, but the game was still evolving and entertaining as hell.
Shirokaisen explains it pretty well (sponsors were hella concerned about image) couple posts above.
One of the main reasons why BW continued to evolve (even during the last pl) was cause of new kespa maps every season. Won't be getting any more of those so the meta game is bound to stagnate now (not to mention the end of properly televised proleague / OSL / MSL / teamhouses / insane practice hours from the best players on the planet)..
Before I gather enough heart to read through the thread, FUCKING MATCHFIXERS GAMBLERS I will declare vendetta on every one of them for last of my life. Probably easy and healthy thing too since gambling is hardly a beneficial influence.
I wish there where more people as motivated to do something like you. There most be more people willing to help. I wish I was still in Korea. Although Iโm not sure what I could do if I was there anyway.
Please.
I was desperately trying to not get too excited by all the Sonic events and the future of Broodwar I seemed to read more and more about just in case it turned out to be to good to be true. Please don't let my instinct be right here. I want to see Professional Broodwar again it's the only Esport Iโve ever really liked and I watched it religiously until the collapse. Please, lets bring it back.
---- Whatโs all this rubbish about Broodwar stagnating I don't remember this. Just amazing games. Almost never at the end of Broodwar did I think well that was a boring game.
So, if someone would be willing to contact sonic about it, i would like to write a few cheerful words to him. As many of us will likely want. But at first it's probably the best if we settle down a bit until new information is available on the players that matchfixed and additional background.
Cele: his facebook, you can write something yourself Also he just updated his status 20 min ago; anyone willing to translate for a noob like me/us?
<Kimoleon> got info on monday during nto clan match, there was a connection with a sasultoto (company name I think) broker and confirmed it <Kimoleon> many players and the leader refused the offer of matchfixing, but one player of nto clan has confessed to his match fixing, through that player have proof that others in sonic all stars may have match fixed <Jung> i got threatened by brokers so im going to call the cops <Kimoleon> but on the bright side through this event investigation we found numerous players, clan masters, even my broadcasting managers have confirmed refusing these brokers. <Kimoleon> though many confirmations, we found out information on who tried to recruit the NTO clan, that certain gamer was threatened that they would release his name on the matchfixing list, currently linked to this event the truth has been spread from my police investigation reques <Kimoleon> though many confirmations, we found out information on who tried to recruit the NTO clan, that certain gamer was threatened that they would release his name on the matchfixing list, currently linked to this event the truth has been spread from my police investigation request <Kimoleon> even if the past giant kespa organization could not stop the contact between these brokers and players, how could I BJ Sonic alone prevent hundreds of ppl, bj, etc them? it's so draining and exhausting.. <Kimoleon> these last two days, I've fallen into a state of dejection and helplessness. <Kimoleon> I was told I could not solve this on my own, the best case is with investigate these brokers who were the ones running the matchfixing, with the checkcall records and the owner of these numbers will be under investigation. <Kimoleon> this might be tough for people who are playing starcraft, but I have to say this <Kimoleon> (long list of criminal offenses they can be charged with, interfereance with business, gambling, cheating etc) cheating etc) <Kimoleon> when a broker approaches you and says, "if it's just two of us its ok you know?", "after a meal some drinks, I'll give you some cash, they can't catch us. no proof", "we'll take it to our graves" will the be appraoch of these people. In this world, nothing can stay secret forever. <Kimoleon> (more talk, how even his broadcast manager got offered, what if they get caught, will they pay their lawyer fees etc) <Kimoleon> until this problem is solved, from my senior year in high school I put my golden years into starcraft1 broodwar... starting my sonic star lessons, amateur leagues, and now passing 2.5 years bj starleague.. after being released from the army I couldn't forget it so I started again, while running a small business couldn't let this go, even as it gives me stress can't let go.. this starcraft league that <Kimoleon> I love cannot go on. <Kimoleon> 8th bj starleague connected thousands of dollars from sponsors, big companies with good offers.. stopped all these current talks, the chance given to me, sponsor, offers.. the viewers made fun of me, (will continue on until this is solved) if this cannot be solved I'm willing to cut my eonnections with starcraft.
I don't use facebook either. Thank you for posting it here. This is so petty I cannot believe people still have the audacity to try and broker match-fixing through Sonic's hard work. It's sad and it's pathetic.
Fuckin money and the shit people will do for it. Willing to drag others and a reviving scene with them, seriously hope whoever the damn match-fixers were go down in big flames and are gone from this scene permanently.
<Kimoleon> got info on monday during nto clan match, there was a connection with a sasultoto (company name I think) broker and confirmed it <Kimoleon> many players and the leader refused the offer of matchfixing, but one player(don't tell whether he was from NTO clan or not) has confessed to his match fixing, through that player have proof (apparently he gave testimony that other players in Sonic All Stars and other leagues could also have gotten involved) that others in sonic all stars may have match fixed <Kimoleon> but on the bright side through this event investigation we found numerous players, clan masters, even my broadcasting managers have confirmed refusing these brokers. (It seems that there is no evidence tying NTO Clan with the match fixing) <Kimoleon> though many confirmations, we found out information on who tried to recruit the NTO clan, that certain gamer was threatened that they would release his name on the matchfixing list, currently linked to this event the truth has been spread from my police investigation request <Kimoleon> even if the past giant kespa organization could not stop the contact between these brokers and players, how could I BJ Sonic alone prevent hundreds of ppl, bj, etc them? it's so draining and exhausting.. <Kimoleon> these last two days, I've fallen into a state of dejection and helplessness. <Kimoleon> I was told I could not solve this on my own, the best case is with investigate these brokers who were the ones running the matchfixing, with the checkcall records and the owner of these numbers will be under investigation. <Kimoleon> this might be tough for people who are playing starcraft, but I have to say this <Kimoleon> (long list of criminal offenses they can be charged with, interfereance with business, gambling, cheating etc) cheating etc) <Kimoleon> when a broker approaches you and says, "if it's just two of us its ok you know?", "after a meal some drinks, I'll give you some cash, they can't catch us. no proof", "we'll take it to our graves" will the be appraoch of these people. In this world, nothing can stay secret forever. <Kimoleon> (more talk, how even his broadcast manager got offered, what if they get caught, will they pay their lawyer fees etc) <Kimoleon> until this problem is solved, from my senior year in high school I put my golden years into starcraft1 broodwar... starting my sonic star lessons, amateur leagues, and now passing 2.5 years bj starleague.. after being released from the army I couldn't forget it so I started again, while running a small business couldn't let this go, even as it gives me stress can't let go.. this starcraft league that I love cannot go on. <Kimoleon> 8th bj starleague connected thousands of dollars from sponsors, big companies with good offers.. stopped all these current talks, the chance given to me, sponsor, offers so that I can put all my effort into ending this event which made fun of viewers and give mistrust to honest players. If this cannot be solved I'm willing to cut my eonnections with starcraft. (Comment: statement seems to imply that even if this offers aren't retracted Sonic himself isn't going to proceed with these offers until this problem has been resolved) further statement telling everyone not to speculate with netizens being netizens, telling involved parties to give him info and he won't press criminal charges clarified some info, included minor change from secondary edit
It was kind of bound to happen anyway if the chance came up to match fix for extra cash. These guys are in a pretty desperate situation since most of them never made any relevant money in progaming and I bet the pressure from family and stuff is pretty high because they didn't get successful while the society is super competitive there.
Money problems can bring out the worst in people unfortunately. :<
Sonic is pretty cool for his dedication. I hope he can pull himself together after this or he could get some help with the league on his end. It seems like a waste to let something so good die. Part of me can't help but think he's being a little too dramatic though announcing the end of everything. It doesn't seem fair to the fans or the players who refused that the match fixers that that it all ends because a (probably) minority of players decided to be dicks.
Hopefully everything can recover once the initial shock wears off
Sonic please don't give up! I've only recently discovered the SSL (I've even managed to get my housemates into it) after virtually no BW exposure since the hybrid Proleague. This is probably the most excited I've been for BW in a really long time - please continue the legacy!
What the flying fuck man.. as angry as I feel I can't even imagine how Sonic must feel.. Seriously whatever you must do Sonic I support it. This is so disgusting -.-
I was heartcracked aleady. This broke it. I'm actually tearing up. Fuck this. Brood War is my home. I can't let it go. I was devastated at saviOr. The end of OSL nearly killed me. This just about has. Fuck this. I don't wanna watch a MOBA. I don't wanna watch deathball wars. I want my home.
I really, really wish Sonic the best. I'd love him to kick these fuckers out and restart SSL the way it's supposed to be. I'm not even a BW veteran like most posters here, but i still love BW and seeing this shit is just terrible. Good luck Sonic, get SSL where it's supposed to be again! ํ์ดํ ! ์๋์ ! ํ๋ด์ธ์!
No really, I feel sorry for Sonic and hope that he re-gains his passion and keeps sponsors happy along the way.
Personally, if I were him, I would ensure that a thorough investigation be done into this scandal, that the SSL be postponed until further notice and that anybody implicated in the scandal face criminal charges.
Sonic needs to take a no-tolerance policy towards matchfixing, find those involved, and expel them from any SOSPA events permanently. If he acts upon this swiftly and elimninates those involved to save the Brood War scene, I am sure that this will earn him more sponsor respect for the Brood War scene.
I can't even start to imagine how Sonic has to feel. So pissed off and scared to see the names on that list... Did ALL sponsors back away for the SSL8?
On December 12 2012 23:34 Golondrin wrote: I can't even start to imagine how Sonic has to feel. So pissed off and scared to see the names on that list... Did ALL sponsors back away for the SSL8?
On December 12 2012 23:49 endy wrote: I can't believe it after how much it hurt the scene two years ago, it happens again. Horang2 just left sc2, I would love to watch him play in the SSL.
On December 12 2012 12:13 ArvickHero wrote: dunno what ppl are saying about BW stagnating by the last real Proleague. If you mean like the top 4 players always dominating, yea I guess, but the game was still evolving and entertaining as hell.
Shirokaisen explains it pretty well (sponsors were hella concerned about image) couple posts above.
One of the main reasons why BW continued to evolve (even during the last pl) was cause of new kespa maps every season. Won't be getting any more of those so the meta game is bound to stagnate now (not to mention the end of properly televised proleague / OSL / MSL / teamhouses / insane practice hours from the best players on the planet)..
Well, my tournaments all have weird metagames by being absurd.
I want to have a map-making contest and use BW Forum maps, then one using Rose of Dream's new maps, and then I've always wanted to have a tournament on BW ports of SC2 maps, but all the good SC2 maps right now are just BW maps remade.
SSL is a product of passion. If it dies like that, it's going to be a real shame. Wish Sonic the best of luck dealing with this. He shouldn't have to though.
I need help from a mega gosu manga artist to make this kick-ass idea come to life:
Please help me guys. I had this epic crazy awesome story develop in my head, but my MS Paint skillz just.won't.cut.it. I had the idea of drawing a little story expressing how after the abandonment of BW over the newer game, Sonic, just the humble shoe-maker, revives the spark and gives people the spotlight they need to shine - he's the HERO of the scene!
Subject: BW before matchfixing, Sonic an inspired spectator. Then matchfixing taints things (a fall from grace). Popularity dwindles and BW players move away to different games, and abandon their hero legacy. Sonic surrounded by discarded armour, sad, alongside squires who no longer have a future.
Analogy: BW = medieval mele tournament (think 'A Knights Tale'), TBLS = champions of the arena with the sickest armour. Sonic = shoe-maker who lives/works in the shop below the tournament grounds - is a massive fan in the crouds (of amateurs and trainees, denoted by a certain look that associate them with a team or something), match-fixing = dark shady black demons who dangle bags of gold in front of some players but then are revealed. The players have hypnotized blank $$ stares in their eyes scandal = scandal loss of support people abandon, pro's moving on = teams and pros leave to the new more modern games; SC2 = laser-tag in an arena where everyone wears futuristic 3D glasses, genericMOAB = flying dragon shit like Avatar, army = army (; but with planes
At this point the old BW arena is slient, the stands are deserted, and sonic stands in the middle, surrounded by majestic armour discarded, bearing the most famous Korean names that even I would know. Ma Jae Yoon's piece has been desacrated and burned, but still leaves a big dent in the playing field. Sonic picks up a helmet and looks at it dramatically, not unlike Hamlet+Skull, and dreams of past/future glory. The trainees and squires from before are with him dreaming of themselves in the armour fighting, but struck by the painful reality that it'll never happen. They look remorsefully towards the giant pulsating arena with flashing lights in the distance where all the heroes have gone.
EDIT: This needs to be epic. There is so much history in BW. So much of walking in the footsteps of your heroes/predecessors, being inspired by them, and being inspired to be and become them. There's also lots of repeated symbolism, imagery, and story-line.
Manga is the best medium I believe, it suits the narrative, culture, and aesthetic quite well IMO. And doesn't take too long to tell a story with (lol not like I have ANY idea how much of a time commitment it is).
I want there to be certain threads that keep on cropping up throughout: dreams/aspirations/heros, arena, matchfixing temptation, inspired enpassioned spectators/audiences A really cool thing to do is to show how everything that comes after, is an echo of the stuff in the beginning, but is also a development, a fulfillment if you will.
The squires training and dreaming to be BW stars then actually becoming them, but with different armour style and technology (e.g. extendable spears, symbolizing new play styles). The origional casters, who sonic comes to emulate, then goes all Terratron and combines all their skills and passion into one epic casting broadcaster. The armour of the old heroes, how people have memories and emotions with that, and how they eventually come to take it upon themselves. The memory of past glory and inspiration, passed onto the next generation with their own heroes (the kid who comes to know Sonic as his boys, following the footsteps of his predecessor spectators as they watched the old guard). Match-fixing. Seriously, the demons (think what flying death eaters from Harry Potter look like) is such visceral representation of wicked match fixing. Yeah I'm taking liberties in portraying it as corrupted as I want/can. Its the same demons with the same tricks, methods, and lies. The arena. This could have a really epic aesthetic as some sort of towering building that everyone looks up to, so it's such a great contrast when it falls from grace into dis-use and dis-repair.
So the idea would be to incorporate a bit of planning before-hand, so if a character in 3. remembers something from 1. since you're creating them chronologically, you have to provide for that, and remember to present it in 1. so you can refer to it later. Stuff like the way people see the champions, casters, arena, matchfixing, and their armour, is all mirrored later so make sure to set it up so that it's clear how the story repeats itself over time.
I just think you can capture something beautiful with that relationship of 'in past, kid looks up to hero, later on, that kid becomes that hero'. Maybe the helmet Sonic keeps going back to .... is the helmet of HIS childhood hero, who inspired him when HE was a kid, who then went to the air-force, came back to bring his team to SC2, but left his [Emperor] armour. That. Is. Sick. NOW DO IT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE THANKS!
Subject: Our mega awesome Hero Sonic saddened by the corruption and demise of BW takes the helmet home, and is somehow inspired to use his cobelling hammer as a microphone, hosting and re-enacting a mini fight between two kids with wooden swords in the street. He gives them candy as prizes, but they get glory and their friends get excited. Sonic sparks passion in the grass-roots community, and leads the way reviving the past glory, except now the battles aren't fought in the old arena but, but on the street
Analogy: Helmet = symbol of former BW glory, sits on Sonic's desk and reminds him, he looks at it longingly. It has (T1) wings on it like a viking on it. It's actually meant to be Boxer's helmet, but that subplot isn't really revealed until the final hero stage. Sonic's Shoe Shop = Sonic's Shoe Shop. He finishes his project of a badass pair of boots, that were meant for 'the next hero', looks at the helmet, puts it on, and engraves his own name on the awesome leather boots Sonic's Hammer = uses it as a microphone, to cast a match between two street kids
Low-level street fights progress and become better attended, a few familiar faces of squires (whom we saw in the origional crouds) get sparked, they leave their current dull jobs, and take up the fight in the streets. They collectively create a virtual arena. While its just dust and wood, in their minds they are all back in the old arena with all the former glory. Sonic's great efforts make the people glad, they smile, and he even gets a big thumbs up and a <3 from the big TL.net hot air balloon passing by. He converts the front of what used to be his lowly shop, into a really cool front and sign, reading something along the lines of 'Sonic Broadcast Jockey StarLeage"
Subject: The evil match-fixing demons who screwed things up last time, re-awaken from their slumber. While they were busy making their way over to the new sports (MOAB and SC2), the catch glimpses of hope-joy-happiness-Esports rays, positively GLOWING from Sonic's shop, person, and street arena. They sieze in like the bad guys do while flying around in Harry Potter. They tempt and torment the squires, offering them the dream of beating the former TBLS at their own game, and getting all the fame and $ยฃ$, while at the same time swapping their wooden swords for bendy fake rubber ones. They make them wear Anicent-Greek-Masks of happiness and laughter, while really they tie black twisted bonds around the wrists and ankles of their players, and puppet them to defeat. Evil match-fixing demons are evil, and make bad things happen, and are the reason why we can't have nice things.
The rich business-man (represents prospective sponsor) gets scared away when he sees 'that look' in the eyes of the current corrupted players, which he recognizes from a flash-back of the faces of the original baddies, with the same blank $$ stare.
Subject: basically we've now related the important things that have happened until this point. Now is the time we make the statement about what we want for the future. Let's encourage Sonic to be brave and have hope to fight the evil match-fixer-demons, and get the fans and players to support the purge of their disgusting taint!
The demons successfully puppet a great player to his downfall, and laugh as they drop him and leave him covered in their dark bonds, shamed and disgraced. Sonic again looks face-to-face with the helmet and sees the past repeating itself. He gets somewhat sad, discouraged, and angry, and contemplates (thought bubble) setting his store and the stadium on fire, to purge the demons. But then he looks out the window and sees a little boy staring in. That kid wants Brood War, he's made a little drawing of him + Sonic, his hero. For the sake of the fans, because BW is a wonderful and beautiful game, because we can't let it die after so much history and so many memories. Sonic ... enters 'Hero Mode'. I don't know how it'd look, but basically he transforms into a super demon-fighting-badass. errr... he grabs his hammer and helmet and heads to the roof. At this point you can see the inscription on the back of the helmet "The Emperor". He goes up onto the roof and smashes his BJ-hammer into the remains of the tainted armour, Sparks fly, demons are emitted, typical manga funtimes.
And there he stands, crowned in all his glory and mighty boots, Sonic the Broadcast Jockey. He is now wearing 'the helmet'. The hammer breaks , and out from it .... comes his destiny .... It transforms into a microphone. And then shit goes fucking crazy! Sonic sings into it and EVERYONE looks up, from the whole city. He stands at the top of the old arena and inspires the people. He shoots rays of BroodWarEpicGoodness at the demons and they get their shit fucked up (you can tell from the swears I'm really passionate about their downfall, and his badassery). He flies. Yeah. And people look up in the sky at the bird-plane, and see all their past heroes embodied. The street fighters climb to the top of the arena and pick up the assorted pieces of rusted and decayed armour, and start to fight, and everyone cheers, and good things happen, and the good guys win.
From their futuristic arenas, from the army, from the sky-planes, and hot air baloons, people's hearts are gladdened by Sonic's work. They look back towards him, admire him, smile, and are thankful for reviving their heart's love. Beautiful
This is SUCH AN AWESOME narrative Sonic totally could use the encouragement, inspiration and support it could provide. Serious man, be impacting with your artwork and message! Do good, do iiiit!
Subject: Our mega awesome Hero Sonic saddened by the corruption and demise of BW takes the helmet home, and is somehow inspired to use his cobelling hammer as a microphone, hosting and re-enacting a mini fight between two kids with wooden swords in the street. He gives them candy as prizes, but they get glory and their friends get excited. Sonic sparks passion in the grass-roots community, and leads the way reviving the past glory, except now the battles aren't fought in the old arena but, but on the street
Analogy: Helmet = symbol of former BW glory, sits on Sonic's desk and reminds him, he looks at it longingly. It has (T1) wings on it like a viking on it. It's actually meant to be Boxer's helmet, but that subplot isn't really revealed until the final hero stage. Sonic's Shoe Shop = Sonic's Shoe Shop. He finishes his project of a badass pair of boots, that were meant for 'the next hero', looks at the helmet, puts it on, and engraves his own name on the awesome leather boots Sonic's Hammer = uses it as a microphone, to cast a match between two street kids
Low-level street fights progress and become better attended, a few familiar faces of squires (whom we saw in the origional crouds) get sparked, they leave their current dull jobs, and take up the fight in the streets. They collectively create a virtual arena. While its just dust and wood, in their minds they are all back in the old arena with all the former glory. Sonic's great efforts make the people glad, they smile, and he even gets a big thumbs up and a <3 from the big TL.net hot air balloon passing by. He converts the front of what used to be his lowly shop, into a really cool front and sign, reading something along the lines of 'Sonic Broadcast Jockey StarLeage"
Subject: The evil match-fixing demons who screwed things up last time, re-awaken from their slumber. While they were busy making their way over to the new sports (MOAB and SC2), the catch glimpses of hope-joy-happiness-Esports rays, positively GLOWING from Sonic's shop, person, and street arena. They sieze in like the bad guys do while flying around in Harry Potter. They tempt and torment the squires, offering them the dream of beating the former TBLS at their own game, and getting all the fame and $ยฃ$, while at the same time swapping their wooden swords for bendy fake rubber ones. They make them wear Anicent-Greek-Masks of happiness and laughter, while really they tie black twisted bonds around the wrists and ankles of their players, and puppet them to defeat. Evil match-fixing demons are evil, and make bad things happen, and are the reason why we can't have nice things.
The rich business-man (represents prospective sponsor) gets scared away when he sees 'that look' in the eyes of the current corrupted players, which he recognizes from a flash-back of the faces of the original baddies, with the same blank $$ stare.
Subject: basically we've now related the important things that have happened until this point. Now is the time we make the statement about what we want for the future. Let's encourage Sonic to be brave and have hope to fight the evil match-fixer-demons, and get the fans and players to support the purge of their disgusting taint!
The demons successfully puppet a great player to his downfall, and laugh as they drop him and leave him covered in their dark bonds, shamed and disgraced. Sonic again looks face-to-face with the helmet and sees the past repeating itself. He gets somewhat sad, discouraged, and angry, and contemplates (thought bubble) setting his store and the stadium on fire, to purge the demons. But then he looks out the window and sees a little boy staring in. That kid wants Brood War, he's made a little drawing of him + Sonic, his hero. For the sake of the fans, because BW is a wonderful and beautiful game, because we can't let it die after so much history and so many memories. Sonic ... enters 'Hero Mode'. I don't know how it'd look, but basically he transforms into a super demon-fighting-badass. errr... he grabs his hammer and helmet and heads to the roof. At this point you can see the inscription on the back of the helmet "The Emperor". He goes up onto the roof and smashes his BJ-hammer into the remains of the tainted armour, Sparks fly, demons are emitted, typical manga funtimes.
And there he stands, crowned in all his glory and mighty boots, Sonic the Broadcast Jockey. He is now wearing 'the helmet'. The hammer breaks , and out from it .... comes his destiny .... It transforms into a microphone. And then shit goes fucking crazy! Sonic sings into it and EVERYONE looks up, from the whole city. He stands at the top of the old arena and inspires the people. He shoots rays of BroodWarEpicGoodness at the demons and they get their shit fucked up (you can tell from the swears I'm really passionate about their downfall, and his badassery). He flies. Yeah. And people look up in the sky at the bird-plane, and see all their past heroes embodied. The street fighters climb to the top of the arena and pick up the assorted pieces of rusted and decayed armour, and start to fight, and everyone cheers, and good things happen, and the good guys win.
From their futuristic arenas, from the army, from the sky-planes, and hot air baloons, people's hearts are gladdened by Sonic's work. They look back towards him, admire him, smile, and are thankful for reviving their heart's love. Beautiful
This is SUCH AN AWESOME narrative Sonic totally could use the encouragement, inspiration and support it could provide. Serious man, be impacting with your artwork and message! Do good, do iiiit!
That was truly awesome just to read :O I doubt we'll be lucky enough to find a manga artist to do this, but something like this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251856 would do as well imo. I think it would actually be kinda nice to see it made in a similar style, and it shouldn't be that time consuming? I'd try contacting Kiett maybe, she's done a ton of awesome artwork and I doubt she'd have any trouble with this. The question is if she'd be interested as I don't recall seeing her in anything SSL related, but worth a try? Maybe make a blog or a thread asking for help if that fails? I'm afraid it'll go quite unnoticed here. I'll add it to OP but most people have read the OP already anyway, so..
And untranslated yet http://live.afreeca.com:8080/app/read_bbs.cgi?szBjId=sogoodtt&nStationNo=55614&nBbsNo=8979457&szSkin=&nTitleNo=53721074 I think it says there's a broadcast coming today 9PM KST, and I believe it says Larva will do something with Sonic... (์ํ๊ท ์ ์๊ฐ ์ ์กฐ์ข ํฉ๋๋ค.) Might mean Larva will influence Sonic's play (by telling him what to do or whatever.. also, if I'm right that might explain why he's calling it Avatar broadcast?). Hopefully we'll see.
And untranslated yet http://live.afreeca.com:8080/app/read_bbs.cgi?szBjId=sogoodtt&nStationNo=55614&nBbsNo=8979457&szSkin=&nTitleNo=53721074 I think it says there's a broadcast coming today 9PM KST, and I believe it says Larva will do something with Sonic... (์ํ๊ท ์ ์๊ฐ ์ ์กฐ์ข ํฉ๋๋ค.) Might mean Larva will influence Sonic's play (by telling him what to do or whatever.. also, if I'm right that might explain why he's calling it Avatar broadcast?). Hopefully we'll see.
Probably Larva giving orders to a Sonic who is actually playing. The last time I saw an "avatar match," it was at the G-Star HotS Invitational where they had audience members go into the booth and give orders to the actual pro players who are playing.
And untranslated yet http://live.afreeca.com:8080/app/read_bbs.cgi?szBjId=sogoodtt&nStationNo=55614&nBbsNo=8979457&szSkin=&nTitleNo=53721074 I think it says there's a broadcast coming today 9PM KST, and I believe it says Larva will do something with Sonic... (์ํ๊ท ์ ์๊ฐ ์ ์กฐ์ข ํฉ๋๋ค.) Might mean Larva will influence Sonic's play (by telling him what to do or whatever.. also, if I'm right that might explain why he's calling it Avatar broadcast?). Hopefully we'll see.
Probably Larva giving orders to a Sonic who is actually playing. The last time I saw an "avatar match," it was at the G-Star HotS Invitational where they had audience members go into the booth and give orders to the actual pro players who are playing.
Yup.
Think of the movie Avatar. There is a person who controls the body.
Avatar is where BJs get a viewer and basically coach them, often in a comedic manner (w/ like a lot of cussing etc etc). It's the new hot shit with BW bjs, since it boosts viewership numbers and balloons, and it's gotten to the point where they're having joke leagues where bjs are having avatar leagues (so some noob plays while being coached by gosu).
All started by Shuttle .. if you are wondering why you are watching a noob play when you turn on a stream, you can point to him lol
On December 14 2012 02:27 ArvickHero wrote: Avatar is where BJs get a viewer and basically coach them, often in a comedic manner (w/ like a lot of cussing etc etc). It's the new hot shit with BW bjs, since it boosts viewership numbers and balloons, and it's gotten to the point where they're having joke leagues where bjs are having avatar leagues (so some noob plays while being coached by gosu).
All started by Shuttle .. if you are wondering why you are watching a noob play when you turn on a stream, you can point to him lol
On December 14 2012 02:27 ArvickHero wrote: Avatar is where BJs get a viewer and basically coach them, often in a comedic manner (w/ like a lot of cussing etc etc). It's the new hot shit with BW bjs, since it boosts viewership numbers and balloons, and it's gotten to the point where they're having joke leagues where bjs are having avatar leagues (so some noob plays while being coached by gosu).
All started by Shuttle .. if you are wondering why you are watching a noob play when you turn on a stream, you can point to him lol
I thought this started back in ์ฑ์ถ์ผ.
well, started by Shuttle in terms of the afreeca BJs. He pretty much popularized the current trend atm lol
Which says that he concludes match-fixing is deeply rooted into the system. It's nearly impossible for one good man like him to fight and win against something so big.
I will always cling onto the hope that things will turn out for the better, somehow, no matter how small the hope is.. But for now, it is over. Rest in Peace SSL, and thank you Sonic.
god fucking dammit not this shit again... seriously what in the actual fuck?! after everything sonic did he gets this fucking shit thrown back at him? how the fuck do you as a player go along with the same fucking shit that ruined mbcgame along with pretty much the entire fucking proscene? this makes me sick
On December 15 2012 05:34 TehRei wrote: god fucking dammit not this shit again... seriously what in the actual fuck?! after everything sonic did he gets this fucking shit thrown back at him? how the fuck do you as a player go along with the same fucking shit that ruined mbcgame along with pretty much the entire fucking proscene? this makes me sick
Greed has destroyed many many things in this world. Killed people. Destroyed cities. Decimated nations.
One BJ's awesome league is not so unbelievable -_-;
On December 15 2012 05:34 TehRei wrote: god fucking dammit not this shit again... seriously what in the actual fuck?! after everything sonic did he gets this fucking shit thrown back at him? how the fuck do you as a player go along with the same fucking shit that ruined mbcgame along with pretty much the entire fucking proscene? this makes me sick
Greed has destroyed many many things in this world. Killed people. Destroyed cities. Decimated nations.
One BJ's awesome league is not so unbelievable -_-;
On some level I know I shouldn't be surprised. It's not like it's the first time this has happened and it's not exactly on the grandest scale of all times. I guess I'm pretty childish and naive to have considered all the matchfixing shit to be history.
I don't know. I feel kinda like crying, and also punching the wall until my knuckles bleed. Which would also be extremely childish. I hate being this helpless, but it just feels like I, and probably all other viewers, can do nothing against this. And there is no way that Sonic can manage all of this alone - it's just not realistic to ask him to keep going. It's not very fair either. So instead we're stuck here watching the entire SSL go up in flames without being able to lift a finger to help. And I really, really fucking hate being in that position again.
On December 15 2012 05:34 TehRei wrote: god fucking dammit not this shit again... seriously what in the actual fuck?! after everything sonic did he gets this fucking shit thrown back at him? how the fuck do you as a player go along with the same fucking shit that ruined mbcgame along with pretty much the entire fucking proscene? this makes me sick
Greed has destroyed many many things in this world. Killed people. Destroyed cities. Decimated nations.
One BJ's awesome league is not so unbelievable -_-;
On some level I know I shouldn't be surprised. It's not like it's the first time this has happened and it's not exactly on the grandest scale of all times. I guess I'm pretty childish and naive to have considered all the matchfixing shit to be history.
I don't know. I feel kinda like crying, and also punching the wall until my knuckles bleed. Which would also be extremely childish. I hate being this helpless, but it just feels like I, and probably all other viewers, can do nothing against this. And there is no way that Sonic can manage all of this alone - it's just not realistic to ask him to keep going. It's not very fair either. So instead we're stuck here watching the entire SSL go up in flames without being able to lift a finger to help. And I really, really fucking hate being in that position again.
Hey man, you're not naive or childish. I just wanted to put it all in perspective a little ): I feel your pain, there's no doubt. I just have grown so jaded by humanity's faults. The good give, the evil cheat, steal, and disrespect the good, and unfortunately it's a lot easier to destroy something than it is to build it. It's surprising we've gotten anywhere in the real world, even less so online (where misdeeds are even easier to achieve). All I know is that I am logged on BW right now and that is something no one can take away from us.
Sonic might have been Icarus who fell from flying too high, but us groundwalkers can still do our small things and build small structures. Gambit cup, ISL, and all foreigner events that run without cheating are examples of this.
On December 15 2012 05:34 TehRei wrote: god fucking dammit not this shit again... seriously what in the actual fuck?! after everything sonic did he gets this fucking shit thrown back at him? how the fuck do you as a player go along with the same fucking shit that ruined mbcgame along with pretty much the entire fucking proscene? this makes me sick
Greed has destroyed many many things in this world. Killed people. Destroyed cities. Decimated nations.
One BJ's awesome league is not so unbelievable -_-;
On some level I know I shouldn't be surprised. It's not like it's the first time this has happened and it's not exactly on the grandest scale of all times. I guess I'm pretty childish and naive to have considered all the matchfixing shit to be history.
I don't know. I feel kinda like crying, and also punching the wall until my knuckles bleed. Which would also be extremely childish. I hate being this helpless, but it just feels like I, and probably all other viewers, can do nothing against this. And there is no way that Sonic can manage all of this alone - it's just not realistic to ask him to keep going. It's not very fair either. So instead we're stuck here watching the entire SSL go up in flames without being able to lift a finger to help. And I really, really fucking hate being in that position again.
Hey man, you're not naive or childish. I just wanted to put it all in perspective a little ): I feel your pain, there's no doubt. I just have grown so jaded by humanity's faults. The good give, the evil cheat, steal, and disrespect the good, and unfortunately it's a lot easier to destroy something than it is to build it. It's surprising we've gotten anywhere in the real world, even less so online (where misdeeds are even easier to achieve). All I know is that I am logged on BW right now and that is something no one can take away from us.
Sonic might have been Icarus who fell from flying too high, but us groundwalkers can still do our small things and build small structures. Gambit cup, ISL, and all foreigner events that run without cheating are examples of this.
Yeah, good point. I have no control over what happens with SSL and I guess I'll have to accept that fact. But I might be able to influence the foreigner events at least a little bit, and I do have complete control over my own involvement with BW. Those things are probably what I should focus on. Thanks for saying that, I appreciate it =)
On December 15 2012 05:20 glzElectromaster wrote: *sigh* and to think people wanted to forgive match fixers. I doubt they will now.
Thats right! Where did all the pro-savior dumbasses go? Probably quietly reading this thread and then sitting in the corner.
It is sad, very bloody sad indeed. Broodwar going out like this is... saddening.
Still, and please forgive me arguing over the coffin -I am a dumbass and I was summoned-... Perhaps it is true. Professional cycling is also on IV at the moment, because of all the doping horror going on & being found out. Still, I think the end of Broodwar is not entirely to blame on matchfixing. And I still respect MJY for the victories he won, until I get evidence that his championships were all bought by the match-fixers. And I severly dislike him too, for all he has done to BW. I just can't bring myself to fully hate him.
players will continue to play and stream. BJs will have their spontaneous team battles. There are other, much much much smaller leagues going on like one hosted by Tuna, who co-commentated a lot of SSL games w/ Sonic. But it seems like we've discovered the ceiling ...
Very saddening. I mean, we felt reality smacking us on our face a lot, but this is the most unthinkable punch I've felt so far.. all those tales about how there are cruel monsters in reality who only seek to exploit? Apparently it is true.... I really hope Sonic does well in his endeavors. That man deserve it.
I just hope this match fixers won't ruin another scene again. I hope they'll get caught and putted into jail forever. They're fucking ruining everything even broodwar's last stand
This news has cost me my new mouse, better stop coming to TL for a few days. Sad to see this is how SSL ends, and I hope someone can step up to organize a new tournament.
I can't tell how much hours I sat in the table writing and deleting this announcement. First I have to apologize.
First regarding the investigation, according to info from them the cell phone number I got wasn't made using real name and without real evidence there seem to be little that cn be done.
While investigating this problem myself I heard lot of stories:
"Sonic, you can't catch them. There's no way those who got the money will report themselves and no broker goes around saying he is broker. Everyone - hyung (T/N = someone) you know, friend, cousins - could become one.. how naive..." etc.
Someone was curious why I made this public which killed my public income and someone is saying why I am doing such things when I could have made millions by joining forces with Toto agency myself.
Naturally I like earning money... but I don't want to betray someone just so I could eat twenty thousand won lunch when five thousand won ($4.65) food is plenty enough. So I wanted to continue investigating and solve this problem no matter how much stories I hear.
What I felt when doing this is that broker have quite a deep root. I am not doing this league behind protection of big orgnization and the players are uncontrated individuals, so brokers are far more easier to approach.
After growing league this much, and having gotten so much opportunity with sponsorships even this moment... such opportunities even being given to the players who adamantly stayed with BW... I wondered if I should continue with shadow of such fundemental problem.
I felt bare... and knew what to do and conclusion I drew after agonizing thinking was that I as individual can do nothing.
No matter how good opportunity is, no matter becomes of carrier I built up, I am convinced it is ridiculous for me to continue the league for my profit or sake of preservation.
I think those who love BW would eventully be disappointed more by burying this situation.
I do not own broadcast which have twenty or something official staff.
I admit common criticism such as "you suck at commentary/observing"; this is broadcast where commentary, observer, music, recording, feedback control, announcement, and schedule gets all done by me.
While I want to become someone who can satisfy everyone it's reality such thing is difficult.
The fact that I make this announcement is in no way saying there is those who play BW, BJ (TN: word for those who stream in Afreeca).
I hope no one who get this news choose to blame and be skeptical of Brood War and players itself.
This strlegue was closed because I realized that it is impossible for me to stop future possible matchfixing, and that me as individual is impossible to grow the league any further.
It was not easy. All time, effort, and money spent to reach this sitution... even when everyone called me crazy I invested all this truly as crazy person. So I am saying like crazy individual... I am abandoning everything I began even before becoming adult. I am not telling everyone to support me... but I hope nobody tries to make me feel more bad... please...
I don't know what to broadcast now, but I'll begin from very beginning.
Cooling off my head for a week then visitng you with new content.
I sincerely apologize for fans who truly love BW.
Sonic league will disappear, but BJ Sonic will not go away and disappoint you more.
8th or 9th... it is no longer possible, and SSL I began will be forgotten, but support from everyone will forever remain in my heart.
There will be no BW content anymore. Rarely when I want to play BW, I'll stream my personal playing, entertainig you despite I might get some criticisms.
I cried a lot after pulling curtains on Afreeca BW content I started with Sonic Starlecture. It feels like I, who can't drink, drunk enough to barf for entire week.
Can't think anything. Don't want to think anything nor meet someone, think about someone, do anything.
I once again apologize to everyone I met thorugh starleague.
I adamantly stuck with BW content from age of 19 to 25. I am afraid about starting afresh, giving up all the sponsors I had, but I'll approach this with a mindset I had when I was new.
While nothing may happen for awhile, justice will triumph and everything will eventually be revealed...
Thanks for everyone who filled cold lecture hall at the last 7th SSL finals.
Sorry for not having flamboyant and dramatic end.
From Monday I'll come back with entertaining broadcast.. Thanks. Sonic broadcast will no longer make any starleague nor any leagues.
Just when i tought BW is getting better ,no problems though sonic is a good guy and he will(hopefully) deal with the damned match-fixers.SONIC HWAITING
I actually hate whoever participated in this matchfixing crap. To make one man feel so invalidated and hopeless after so much amazing work is appalling. To bring an incredible part of a re-growing scene down with it... it's heartbreaking on every level.
Someone please get us a list of players that did this, I want to know, no more viewers or balloons or whatever you call it for them, erase them like you did to those in 2010, THERE NEEDS TO BE JUSTICE FOR FUCKS SAKE!
i dont understand why sonic will no more cast some sc stuff. Why he didnt want to clean these things and still keep it on? he proablly is pissed but he will come back. You cant leave sc;bw
On December 15 2012 15:32 vndestiny wrote: I don't know what to feel anymore .... This is the end Hold your breath and count to ten Feel the earth move and then Hear my heart burst again ...
This reminded me of a T.S. Eliot poem, the hollow men, the end of which is depressingly apropos to the end of the SSL. This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper
Luckily the end of the SSL isn't the end of the world. It's a great loss, no doubt, and I feel terrible that it turned out like this; for sonic, the innocent players and also the viewers. It's not the end of all that is BW though. There's still the Chinese scene and there's still the foreigner scene. Maybe none of those will ever be up to par with the SSL, perhaps one day they will. But BW fights on
On December 15 2012 21:12 mca64[KDV] wrote: i dont understand why sonic will no more cast some sc stuff. Why he didnt want to clean these things and still keep it on?
As I understand it, he wanted to clean these things up and keep going with the SSL/SOSPA events. But he's just one guy and he couldn't possibly fight all of the brokers, matchfixers and all of the corruption they brought with them. It sucks, but I don't think I can blame him. After all he did, this is what he got... I would probably do the same thing were I in his shoes.
On December 15 2012 21:12 mca64[KDV] wrote: i dont understand why sonic will no more cast some sc stuff. Why he didnt want to clean these things and still keep it on?
As I understand it, he wanted to clean these things up and keep going with the SSL/SOSPA events. But he's just one guy and he couldn't possibly fight all of the brokers, matchfixers and all of the corruption they brought with them. It sucks, but I don't think I can blame him. After all he did, this is what he got... I would probably do the same thing were I in his shoes.
life is though, but comon. You must fight till end! espescially if he loves sc
On December 15 2012 21:12 mca64[KDV] wrote: i dont understand why sonic will no more cast some sc stuff. Why he didnt want to clean these things and still keep it on?
As I understand it, he wanted to clean these things up and keep going with the SSL/SOSPA events. But he's just one guy and he couldn't possibly fight all of the brokers, matchfixers and all of the corruption they brought with them. It sucks, but I don't think I can blame him. After all he did, this is what he got... I would probably do the same thing were I in his shoes.
life is though, but comon. You must fight till end! espescially if he loves sc
He's afraid that he will be carrying a corrupted product and only disappoint the audience / community even more later down the line when stakes are higher.
On December 15 2012 21:12 mca64[KDV] wrote: i dont understand why sonic will no more cast some sc stuff. Why he didnt want to clean these things and still keep it on?
As I understand it, he wanted to clean these things up and keep going with the SSL/SOSPA events. But he's just one guy and he couldn't possibly fight all of the brokers, matchfixers and all of the corruption they brought with them. It sucks, but I don't think I can blame him. After all he did, this is what he got... I would probably do the same thing were I in his shoes.
life is though, but comon. You must fight till end! espescially if he loves sc
He's afraid that he will be carrying a corrupted product and only disappoint the audience / community even more later down the line when stakes are higher.
i understand him. Im just another kind of person compared to him...
On December 15 2012 21:12 mca64[KDV] wrote: i dont understand why sonic will no more cast some sc stuff. Why he didnt want to clean these things and still keep it on?
As I understand it, he wanted to clean these things up and keep going with the SSL/SOSPA events. But he's just one guy and he couldn't possibly fight all of the brokers, matchfixers and all of the corruption they brought with them. It sucks, but I don't think I can blame him. After all he did, this is what he got... I would probably do the same thing were I in his shoes.
life is though, but comon. You must fight till end! espescially if he loves sc
He's afraid that he will be carrying a corrupted product and only disappoint the audience / community even more later down the line when stakes are higher.
i understand him. Im just another kind of person compared to him...
Sometimes the more courageous and difficult thing to do is to let go.
I just realized something. Why the fuck does anyone care that match fixing is going on in SSL? It's a bunch of ex-pros and amitures tossing games to disqualify themselves from being able to win any prize money. Unlike the Kespa match-fixing scandal, It has absolutely no effect on a sponsored team, or a sponsored anyone for that matter. No person or company in any way shape or form is getting hurt. The only harm that comes from match-fixing in an individual tourney with no sponsored players is through bad press (people over-reacting) that encourages an irrational and silly bandwagon response of anguish and defeatism.
This response is nothing other than illogical and self-destructive.
On December 17 2012 06:31 puppykiller wrote: I just realized something. Why the fuck does anyone care that match fixing is going on in SSL? It's a bunch of ex-pros and amitures tossing games to disqualify themselves from being able to win any prize money. Unlike the Kespa match-fixing scandal, It has absolutely no effect on a sponsored team, or a sponsored anyone for that matter. No person or company in any way shape or form is getting hurt. The only harm that comes from match-fixing in an individual tourney with no sponsored players is through bad press (people over-reacting) that encourages an irrational and silly bandwagon response of anguish and defeatism.
This response is nothing other than illogical and self-destructive.
you need sponsors to help contribute prizes/money.
On December 17 2012 06:31 puppykiller wrote: Unlike the Kespa match-fixing scandal, It has absolutely no effect on a sponsored team, or a sponsored anyone for that matter. No person or company in any way shape or form is getting hurt.
On December 17 2012 06:31 puppykiller wrote: The only harm that comes from match-fixing in an individual tourney with no sponsored players is through bad press (people over-reacting) that encourages an irrational and silly bandwagon response of anguish and defeatism.
There's a lot of harm from a fan point of view, knowing that the player you're rooting for may throw games away randomly. That's pretty dishearteaning on the least.
Let's think for a second about why the Kespa match fixing was a big deal. Teams were sponsored. If a team did well... it had an effect on the image of the company. If a star player dropped games, it had a notable effect on the success of the team and subsequently hurt the sponsors investment.
Now lets think about sponsoring in regards to the SSL. If a player does drop games, nothing happens. That player losses. No ones image is affected other than that of the players, and all that changes is that his reputation diminishes slightly.
The reason people are throwing a hissy fit is because Sonic is throwing a hissy fit, because he heard that there was a possibility of match-fixing, and drew the inaccurate conclusion that match-fixing in the SSL was somehow analogous to the match-fixing that transpired in Kespa leagues, and should be dealt with in the same manner.
The part of this situation that frustrates me the most is the fact that Sonic felt some sort of a civic obligation to publicize the rumor and react intensely to it by shutting down his own tourney. As if Kim Carrier's quote about match-fixers being comparable to child molesters made some kind of silly association in Sonic's mind that gave him the motivation to suspend the tourney on spot so as if to keep the terrible child-molesting match-fixers from molesting his beautiful and pure tournament of Broodwar.
If I was Sonic I would have: A) Kept my mouth shut for the time being B) Waited for the tourney to conclude C) Then gone public with the rumors that I had heard D) Begin coming up with a plan on how to prevent match-fixing in the future, and make it a communal effort to expunge future match-fixing E) Not been an emotional cry baby during the whole process F) Not promoted the following silly and noneffective popular viewpoints: 1: Match-fixers = evil child-molesting people who should die. 2: BW is a cute and innocent child that the match-fixers just want to molest. Wherever there is BW, the child molesters will come. 3. Any reaction to match-fixing indications other than crying and raging about how mean the child-molesters are supports the molestation. 4. If there is even the slightest chance that BW might get molested it should never ever happen again. 5. Neither I nor anyone else who shared my sentiments of doom and defeat had anything to do with the death of BW, it was exclusively those child-molesting match-fixers faults. I guess we will instead have to go and watch other games that we don't like as much because maybe they won't get molested because they aren't named BW and BW was the game that got molested.
Don't get me wrong, match-fixing isn't favorable for a number of obvious reasons. But the way its being dealt with is highly inefficient. We should think critically about how to cure it rather than just copy the emotional reactions that were rampant and destructive during the Kespa scandal.
puppykiller that's a cute rant and all but the reason the league is shutting down is because he said it was impossible to fight and stop the matchfixing himself, and he doesn't want to run a league where games are thrown. Who would want to watch the SSL if all the results are predetermined so people can make money off betting?
" begin coming up with a plan on how to prevent match-fixing in the future "
that's where it ends, because he doesn't seem to think there's a way to stop the matchfixing. Honestly you sound really entitled in your post. Yeah this sucks but if there was a way to fix it, it would be fixed.
There wasn't just some rumor. There WAS match-fixing going on, and it seemed like it was going on for a while. Just because Sonic hasn't released any names (though there are strong suspects. Hint: Sonic's close friend), doesn't mean there weren't any.
You say he's throwing a hissy fit, like it's no big deal. But you didn't invest thousands of hours and your heart and soul into this, and you didn't have your trust utterly betrayed and have a knife stabbed and twisted into your back.
You can't beat match-fixing in Korea. The foundations of the institution are too strong, and are nearly untraceable. When big corporations and team sports have difficulty dealing w/ match-fixing, what can one good man do? Unlike KeSPA, Sonic has no control over the BJs, so to the brokers approaching a BJ is child's play. The temptation of making more off of one thrown game than you'd make in a month of streaming is incredible. The police aren't going to continue the investigation, and the player's aren't or are unable to give up any names.
Sonic only wanted to resolve this current issue of match-fixing, and continue from that point. But he couldn't even do that. SSL was something he did out of his love for the game and scene, with so much sacrifice from his part. Once that was totally betrayed, you can't wonder why he doesn't have the heart to continue?
I'm not extremely surprised at this, there didn't seem to be much optimism coming from Sonic with earlier announcements, but this is still really sad to hear...
On December 17 2012 06:31 puppykiller wrote: I just realized something. Why the fuck does anyone care that match fixing is going on in SSL? It's a bunch of ex-pros and amitures tossing games to disqualify themselves from being able to win any prize money. Unlike the Kespa match-fixing scandal, It has absolutely no effect on a sponsored team, or a sponsored anyone for that matter. No person or company in any way shape or form is getting hurt. The only harm that comes from match-fixing in an individual tourney with no sponsored players is through bad press (people over-reacting) that encourages an irrational and silly bandwagon response of anguish and defeatism.
This response is nothing other than illogical and self-destructive.
SOSPA was surprisingly reliant on sponsorships. I think Sonic was also planning his answer towards Proleague which would see sponsored teams making a debut.
Sonic brought new contents, like LoL with his girlfriend and other event match in Starcraft, etc. There was a new announcement but I no good at translating stuff. People can go check that out if they are interested.
On December 12 2012 12:13 ArvickHero wrote: dunno what ppl are saying about BW stagnating by the last real Proleague. If you mean like the top 4 players always dominating, yea I guess, but the game was still evolving and entertaining as hell.
Shirokaisen explains it pretty well (sponsors were hella concerned about image) couple posts above.
One of the main reasons why BW continued to evolve (even during the last pl) was cause of new kespa maps every season. Won't be getting any more of those so the meta game is bound to stagnate now (not to mention the end of properly televised proleague / OSL / MSL / teamhouses / insane practice hours from the best players on the planet)..
Who said Rose.of.Dream had to design them?
Wasn't one of the great map things about kespa / proleague: during off season all teams would test out the new maps and report back any imbas for fixing. It was a very detailed and strcutured process to get a good map into the map pool.
Sure we can have and will have other map makers, but lets not ignore the value that is no longer offered because of the death of (bw) proleague.
On December 22 2012 06:37 rotinegg wrote: Just to elaborate, Lee Seung Won and Kim Carrier will be casting the entirety of the SSL, starting from the Ro32. This is awesome.
On December 22 2012 06:37 rotinegg wrote: Just to elaborate, Lee Seung Won and Kim Carrier will be casting the entirety of the SSL, starting from the Ro32. This is awesome.
On December 12 2012 09:25 Anomarad wrote: Is he not getting sponsors because of the match fixing? His last SSL was so successful I don't get why there wouldn't be any sponsors. :/
Maybe he'll change his mind after SSL8.
Sponsors fled from BW after He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named happened. And now, if it seems like to companies without a current stake in eSports that Brood War is nothing but a hive of match fixers - with a second scandal in three years - what incentive is there for them to sponsor it?
I find it hard to believe the entire professional scene lost sponsors over eleven match fixers. Wouldn't the stagnation of the metagame along with SC2's uncertain future in Korea and LoL's rise to prominence have spurred a sponsorship exodus?
It's only one variable and it had a ripple effect on the scene; you have to look at all the pieces and you will have plenty of people telling you the game was far from being stagnate.
I'm happy we're getting the old gang back together again.
On December 12 2012 12:13 ArvickHero wrote: dunno what ppl are saying about BW stagnating by the last real Proleague. If you mean like the top 4 players always dominating, yea I guess, but the game was still evolving and entertaining as hell.
Shirokaisen explains it pretty well (sponsors were hella concerned about image) couple posts above.
One of the main reasons why BW continued to evolve (even during the last pl) was cause of new kespa maps every season. Won't be getting any more of those so the meta game is bound to stagnate now (not to mention the end of properly televised proleague / OSL / MSL / teamhouses / insane practice hours from the best players on the planet)..
Who said Rose.of.Dream had to design them?
Wasn't one of the great map things about kespa / proleague: during off season all teams would test out the new maps and report back any imbas for fixing. It was a very detailed and strcutured process to get a good map into the map pool.
Sure we can have and will have other map makers, but lets not ignore the value that is no longer offered because of the death of (bw) proleague.
Also sucks about this matchfixing...
That was certainly a part of it but the gamers were only given the final versions very late. That's why you see some maps disappear from the map pool in mid swing because they simply cannot collect all the data in time.
On December 22 2012 06:37 rotinegg wrote: Just to elaborate, Lee Seung Won and Kim Carrier will be casting the entirety of the SSL, starting from the Ro32. This is awesome.
So, what are the precautionary measure he is taking now? Will he persue legal measures? Somehow, his statement raised more questions that it solved... :-/
On December 22 2012 10:00 NicksonReyes wrote: Is it possible that Sea will play in SSL8? Didn't he retire from progaming completely? can he still join SSL np?
Kim Carrier casting Sonic starleague will make BW more popular again i'm sure, lets hope for Sea to play in this too like others have said, that would be fantastic.
On December 22 2012 17:18 GGzerG wrote: Kim Carrier casting Sonic starleague will make BW more popular again i'm sure, lets hope for Sea to play in this too like others have said, that would be fantastic.
AWESOME! Thank you Sonic for bringing the SSL to our lives! It would've been much darker without it! Merry Christmas I hope you get many presents because you, Sonic, are a good boy
So all the people who grew up on BW are now productive members of society but haven't forgotten their passion. BW once again proving why it's the greatest game of all time \o/
So instead of terrible ending we have even more good news(awesome comentators, strict rules). So I'd like to thank all the translators and generally all the people keeping an eye on the news and informing us noobs. But my main thanking goes to Sonic. THANK YOU SONIC, I'm sooooo looking forward to more streams(I saw the finals with both orignal, then Sayle's commentary...and I hardly know like 5 korean words now...).
On December 22 2012 19:08 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Great news! BW really deserves and needs that one big league to bring everything together.
I love Teamliquid for still supporting BW it would be cool if the SSL 8 announcement would get featured though (Well this is the announcement, but I'm talking about when a nicely formated thread with pretty pictures and graphics, ArvickHero usually makes those!)
On December 22 2012 19:08 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Great news! BW really deserves and needs that one big league to bring everything together.
I love Teamliquid for still supporting BW it would be cool if the SSL 8 announcement would get featured though (Well this is the announcement, but I'm talking about when a nicely formated thread with pretty pictures and graphics, ArvickHero usually makes those!)
I already knew this was going to happen, you just cant keep BW down.
For anyone that wasnt part of TL during the BW days this is your chance, if you hop on now then in a few years you will be a hipster along with the rest of us.
People predicted the end of the world, and we got SSL resuming, with Lee Seung Won + Kim Carrier casting from Ro 32 ?!
I have tears in my eyes.
Will the mini-dong continue to tyrannize the SSL ? Will Sea participate and pass the Ro8 ? Bisu retires the last day before SSL8 registration ends only to be hydra busted in the Ro32 ? I heard Nada was around too ? Holy shit, I'm pumped o_o
Yesssssssss! I'm so glad this is back. There's nothing better than waking up on the weekends to the SSL. It was really really awesome. And i'm happy the community rallied around Sonic to help him out.
On December 25 2012 07:16 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: I want Sea and Firebathero in this... does FBH still play?
FBH is in the Airforce I thought, so I expect he'd have to wait until his military service is complete.
Can anyone ask Sonic if Sea is playing? I don't know how to get in contact with him and my Korean is pretty bad, and a lot of people here want to know if he's playing xD
On December 25 2012 07:16 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: I want Sea and Firebathero in this... does FBH still play?
FBH is in the Airforce I thought, so I expect he'd have to wait until his military service is complete.
Can anyone ask Sonic if Sea is playing? I don't know how to get in contact with him and my Korean is pretty bad, and a lot of people here want to know if he's playing xD
FBH is a caster now, and Sea could play if ssl happens before he goes of to military service.
This is some great news and relief. Thanks for the translations, will be rooting for Sonic and SSL8 all the way. Curious as to what his "more strict rules" are. For BW's sake, hopefully there is no more match fixing...
I guess I'm a little late to this party, but this is super exciting. I like watching Brood War and am really happy that it continues to be played. Hopefully this tournament will run smoother than the last SSL!
EPT
Stats' best chance is to rip out his mouse plug right now, because he has absolutely no chance now, there is nothing he can do to win this game!"
Can anyone translate please?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B4Q7a.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KjP7x.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-visible/004.gif)
