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On September 08 2012 09:39 Gecko[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:51 Game wrote:
[...]
This is where you went wrong. Constructive criticism stops the second you insert a delusional opinion of something that's simply false. I agree that certain aspects of the community need to stop having money injected into them. However, you not only generalize this as the entire community in your posts, but define the scene as something that no longer exists in a practical manner. You're just wrong.
Under your logic, I have to propose a question. If the scene has been dead for two years, are we all simply necrophiliac whores? After all, if we have the ability to acquire sponsors and inject money into the dead scene, we are alive and need the money, yet some estranged morgue rapists? I have problems to understand your last sentence. Since the Beta almost every page broke down. What used to be the biggest foreign platform can be happy to have 800 players online, a year ago 1000. Broodwar.de used to have a server (up to mid 2010) only for rookies, and they had around 100 more or less active players with more than 1500 accounts registered. _Only German speaking_ rookies. If you really want to compare the scene now to what it used to be before Beta, you're gonna have to admit that it is basically dead. There is no more international scene to speak of, no more nation wars (friendly based), something like the GG.net ranking, updated LP coverage, anything that could be really compared to TSL/WCG or stuff like Zotac/incup/bw4ever/ESL, not to mention more than TL for English coverage. Where are the new players? Like really enough players to at least make up for those who left entirely? I won't stop anyone from dreaming or flame the persons that still try to give their best to still promote Brood War, organize stuff like DRTL and good tours like ThSL, but sorry, don't try to cover up that it's not gonna be anything like before SCII. The chances to have a bigger scene again are beyond impossible. And with most stuff going on right now I don't see this changing anytime soon.
Like I said, don't list your delusional opinions as something that is true. It's misleading to those who aren't cutting palms to shake hands with the devil committed to the foreign SC:BW community. You slightly altered your position on death, which kind've makes us those who rape the elderly in homes. Followed by that (here's the delusional part) you just stated that the scene is "basically dead" because it's not the same as it was before SC2. That's idiotic reasoning at best.
I think I'd be dragging this on by pointing out that you discredit all leagues repetitively by not listing the most major ones over the past two years, since this is your time sample I felt it appropriate to mention it. I'd also be dragging it out by mentioning that there is... an international scene? Not sure what you're basing that off of. Not sending white people to Korea? Also, GG.net just updated their rankings. But that'd be me using your reasoning, which has an entirely populated scene (just not on the server you seem to like) being dead, because you say so.
Edit: Since I'm a gentlemen I'll answer your two questions in one sentence. Yeah, I know, I'm cool. There are ample new players, just obviously not enough to fill the void of those who left for SC2 (and now other games as SC2 flops). Since the population of foreign BW was cut directly in half by the release of SC2, I'd like to point out that the new player ratio is perfectly proportionate to size.
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On September 08 2012 00:28 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 00:07 Eywa- wrote:On September 07 2012 23:28 2Pacalypse- wrote:On September 07 2012 22:57 Stratos wrote:Or, even better, is there any reason why we're not using this: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/international for the foreign scene? With professional BW gone why not make use of this? It would also be useful for creating player/team statistics. If we could get this thing started I'm confident we could find enough contributors to make it work and cover at least the biggest events (ISL, GC etc.). After all it's TL BW International Gaming Database. Gaming, not progaming. Also, the scene is not that big if we don't include yellow, red and no spire leagues. There is actually a thread in staff forums about reviving this, but TL's staff forums move at snail pace so it kinda died down. I just bumped it so hopefully we'll have foreign BW scene in TLPD soon. Regardless of that, I think the biggest underused source we have is Liquipedia. And the main point of Liquipedia is that EVERYONE can contribute. In case you didn't know, there is a  Portal:Foreign Scene page. And this portal is in desperate need of contributors. So if you're following tournaments in foreign BW scene and you notice something missing there, add it yourself! If that portal was kept up to date there is pretty much nothing we would need more to keep ourselves updated on the current stuff in foreign BW scene. I noticed that almost all tournaments currently running have their own Liquipedia page, which is commendable, but when I go to Leagues (Foreign) page I don't see them listed, which is a shame since that would be a pretty cool place to see all the leagues currently running and their status. I tried to add all the current active players to the foreign portal on liquipedia so that people would be able to see who's playing in this league game, but the ones judged to not be accomplished enough were removed and I'm still banned from posting anything on liquipedia due to articles on Semih and Favorite. Edit: So this is not an option, given that most players who are currently playing aren't good enough to be recognized. Maybe you should leave editing Liquipedia to others then and you focus on updating your OWN threads. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363742http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363912http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361696I won't even mention Gambit Cup which is supposed to be the most prestigious BW team league and yet I need to spend an hour to find the results and VODs, which is a 2 hour long video file. You named your thread [R&S] Gambit's Cup Round 1, but do you know what [R&S] even stands for? It's Results and Standings, which is just misleading to label your thread like that. I don't know what got you banned from editing Liquipedia, but I know that Liquipedia admins don't hand out their bans lightly. So please don't spread false propaganda as editing Liquipedia is still very much an option, but there are rules which you must follow or otherwise it would end up a cesspool of misinformation.
One of those events still requires a cast for the Ro8 onward and as far as everything else, you enjoy every chance you get at flaming me, so I'll be blunt so that I have nothing more to say after this. Gecko also pointed this out and I hate to agree with him, but I do... You're telling other people to do stuff that you don't seem to be willing to jump out and do yourself... You expect me to find sponsorships, host events, write about said events, create LR, upkeep R&S and update liquipedia while also planning future events and living my life... Quite simply, you can't demand that someone do all of this while you sit on your ass and do none of it. It's too much work for one person, full time job really... But I already have a full time job.
For future posters, rather than suggesting what could be done, go out and do it.
Thanks.
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I never meant 2pac. Never ever. Nah, ah. Don't put words in my mouth.
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On September 08 2012 10:44 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
I never meant 2pac. Never ever. Nah, ah. Don't put words in my mouth.
On September 08 2012 00:27 Gecko[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 23:28 2Pacalypse- wrote:
[...]
Regardless of that, I think the biggest underused source we have is Liquipedia. And the main point of Liquipedia is that EVERYONE can contribute.
[...] Sorry for quoting you again, but that's like one issue most of the OPs miss in their threads. I don't want to piss of anyone, but it seems to me that it is more common to start a thread like this every other month or every other week, depending on which event recently died, starting to order people around without actually doing anything. There are only very few persons to actually try to edit LP, regardless of how easy it is to start writing. After that the biggest part of the first-time editors go back and think that's it. Right now there are like ten persons at best that edited foreign Brood War articles - endy for example. You feel so alone, no support or anything coming from the community. It's just wasted time and energy, especially when you see that the newest tournaments mostly ignore LP and just rely on the rest of "us" (whoever that is that still cares enough) to fill what they didn't care to do. How can you ask someone to help if you don't give enough shit to provide the essential information that's needed for free? It seems that the more people stand around, the more people expect everyone else to do the work, so you have more time to complain. With that in mind I just can applaud to people that keep stuff like DRTL, Defiler, ABC and ThSL running. People should start to realize that "the past" events were so great because everyone contributed. Not only the orgas, pages like TL/GG/bw.de, but also the user base. I miss that and I honestly don't see the spirit here anymore. Nowadays we need money, tons of text, an image here and there and hope it'll make it better.
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Too much drama, not enough bw.
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Canada5155 Posts
On September 07 2012 19:37 GeLaar wrote:
I'm past being bitter about this, but it is a matter of TL abandoning us. This has gone on since well before professional BW was nearing its end (since before even the last MSL finals, in fact), and has nothing to do with the shakiness of the amateur scene. And the condescending and sometimes downright rude attitude some of the staff members have had towards BW fans who complained, has done a lot to erode the good feelings I had about this site.
I find this personally offensive as a TL staff member who has dedicated hundreds hours between 2 jobs and law school to Brood War coverage.
We abanonded BW? Since before the last MSL?
How far would you like to go back with respect to TL coverage of Brood War?
Those are just a few random articles I found when searching. We've covered the OSL MSL and SPL weekly for as far back as last spring.
The simple truth is that there is nothing in the foreign scene worthy of front page coverage. I've been working with 2pac and others (i.e. Pholon, SirJolt, Kiante, Kiett, l10f, riptide, and so many more that I feel bad only naming just those) to organize Brood War coverage on TL now that we have no pro scene. It's a mess, and we're doing our best to sort through things. The ThSL, for example, may as well be a TL sponsored tournament... it's mostly run by staff + the lovely Torenhire. In fact, I'm about to go spend 3 or 4 hours splitting VODs for it so that it can get a measly 20-100 views.
We've started ABC as a preliminary attempt at rounding up amateur news. I ask you, what are you really asking of TL? This thread is full of a lot of blaming and pointing of fingers, and it's frustrating as someone who puts a lot of effort into making our news coverage professional and robust to have the finger pointed in this direction.
I apologize for being this confrontational. This hit a nerve.
The reality is, we're only human.
The difference between "TL staff" and you is that our contributions have given us fancy forum icons and names. That's it. If you want to help... if you want to make TL coverage better... find ways to contribute. 2pac has asked for contributors for ABC in the past two volumes, and the response has been... sad.
Do you want to see a better BW scene? I know I do. Do something about it.
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On September 08 2012 13:15 HawaiianPig wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 19:37 GeLaar wrote:
I'm past being bitter about this, but it is a matter of TL abandoning us. This has gone on since well before professional BW was nearing its end (since before even the last MSL finals, in fact), and has nothing to do with the shakiness of the amateur scene. And the condescending and sometimes downright rude attitude some of the staff members have had towards BW fans who complained, has done a lot to erode the good feelings I had about this site. I find this personally offensive as a TL staff member who has dedicated hundreds hours between 2 jobs and law school to Brood War coverage. We abanonded BW? Since before the last MSL?How far would you like to go back with respect to TL coverage of Brood War? Those are just a few random articles I found when searching. We've covered the OSL MSL and SPL weekly for as far back as last spring. The simple truth is that there is nothing in the foreign scene worthy of front page coverage. I've been working with 2pac and others (i.e. Pholon, SirJolt, Kiante, Kiett, l10f, riptide, and so many more that I feel bad only naming just those) to organize Brood War coverage on TL now that we have no pro scene. It's a mess, and we're doing our best to sort through things. The ThSL, for example, may as well be a TL sponsored tournament... it's mostly run by staff + the lovely Torenhire. In fact, I'm about to go spend 3 or 4 hours splitting VODs for it so that it can get a measly 20-100 views. We've started ABC as a preliminary attempt at rounding up amateur news. I ask you, what are you really asking of TL? This thread is full of a lot of blaming and pointing of fingers, and it's frustrating as someone who puts a lot of effort into making our news coverage professional and robust to have the finger pointed in this direction. I apologize for being this confrontational. This hit a nerve. The reality is, we're only human. The difference between "TL staff" and you is that our contributions have given us fancy forum icons and names. That's it. If you want to help... if you want to make TL coverage better... find ways to contribute. 2pac has asked for contributors for ABC in the past two volumes, and the response has been... sad. Do you want to see a better BW scene? I know I do. Do something about it.
What gets me most is that there's no mention of bw whatsoever in the title. And they did this last year too but quickly changed it back.
"Team Liquid - StarCraft 2 and Dota 2 Pro Gaming News: Team Liquid is a community site focused on StarCraft 2 and Dota 2, with an emphasis on pro-gaming. Featuring StarCraft 2 and Dota 2 news and events, forums,"
While individuals like 2pac and others are contributing it seems that whatever head staff at TL wants BW swept under the rug.
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what would you prefer them to say? "Team Liquid - StarCraft 2 and Dota 2 Pro Gaming News... and and we also have some dudes who like to play BW"? We just aren't as important as they are, and we don't have "pro gaming news". At this point I'm just happy they still let us on the calender.
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On September 07 2012 16:03 Sayle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 14:33 Stratos wrote:
Any word on: private BW events?
Always show streams?
The rest of the suggestions that actually make the core of the portal - BW spotlight, BW news, BW results? Note that these would all link to threads/blogs/posts or a liquipedia page, it's just highlighting them in an organized fashion. From what I've seen, most BW showmatches like Defi's ones or the Chinese player one recently have all been calendered despite technically not making the minimum requirements. What other 'private BW events' are there to feature? "Always show streams" is a pretty trivial complaint. Admittedly, it's probably also a fairly trivial change to add that feature to the customization options, but this just seems like nitpicking. For your "BW spotlight, BW news, BW results" sections, what actually goes there? There are at best 2-3 good new threads per week in all the BW forums combined, and that's probably going to drop off now that OSL/SPL threads are going away. The only two high level amateur events that we have any coverage of are Gambit's Cup and the Chinese OSL and the coverage of those is shoddy. As people have said, it's almost impossible to follow GC even if you try. I always look for the latest results for that since I can't watch the streams, but I can never find them until draW randomly makes a blog post weeks later. On the other hand, people keep talking up the C-OSL and how the Chinese scene is going to save BW and yet the Ro8 thread, Ro4 thread and finals thread got less than four pages of comments combined. As far as I know, live streaming of the event was also inconsistent (actually this goes for GC too), and the VODs as you can see in those threads are super low quality. People are also talking about covering the amateur Korean scene that has notable players like Hiya, Pusan and Anytime, but who is going to do that? A few threads popped up a while ago for the hOdduk Starleague and the team league that FAT (foreigner allstar team) participated in also got some coverage, but I haven't really heard anything from that scene since then. The only glimpse I'm getting from them recently is random Afreeca restreams on kjwcj's stream. This isn't a matter of "omg TL hates BW now, what a bunch of sellouts", it's more like the volunteers on TL staff mostly only cared about professional BW (with a few notable exceptions) so they're not willing to invest their time in a shaky amateur scene that can't even take care of itself at the moment.
I just got bored cause no1 keeps things updated but even my blog is a fail as it gets tossed into the back pages  I think I should just convert it to a BW Thread.
edit: I post stuff almost daily on TL.net and I browse a lot since I am sleeping around 3-4 hours a day but I have no knowledge of gosu video/photo editing techniques, not even sure if my PC can run that kind of software, else I would be doing lots more . Btw, I entered minors in comp sci so maybe I will learn something for future if we are still around by then, lol.
PS: About the vod clean up, that would be amazing but most of our tech guys are mad amateur so I don't think that will change soon. . (i.e crap overlay or 4hour video for a whole clan war with no write-up, also notice how there is never any history on most players? Thats cause it was basically impossible to find until hacklebeast started rounding shit up and then he left xD wonder if anyone has his overlay files they could be very useful)
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you mean the overlays for isl? I can give you those if you want them.
And since this thread doesn't exactly have a consistent topic: I wanted to ask if anyone prefers the vods split by individual games rather than in groups (ie series, team match, group, ect). I have heard some people say that, but I prefer the longer vods myself, and I haven't heard a really good argument otherwise. But if someone had a really compelling argument, I could start doing them that way.
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On September 08 2012 13:15 HawaiianPig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 19:37 GeLaar wrote:
I'm past being bitter about this, but it is a matter of TL abandoning us. This has gone on since well before professional BW was nearing its end (since before even the last MSL finals, in fact), and has nothing to do with the shakiness of the amateur scene. And the condescending and sometimes downright rude attitude some of the staff members have had towards BW fans who complained, has done a lot to erode the good feelings I had about this site. I find this personally offensive as a TL staff member who has dedicated hundreds hours between 2 jobs and law school to Brood War coverage. We abanonded BW? Since before the last MSL?How far would you like to go back with respect to TL coverage of Brood War? Those are just a few random articles I found when searching. We've covered the OSL MSL and SPL weekly for as far back as last spring. The simple truth is that there is nothing in the foreign scene worthy of front page coverage. I've been working with 2pac and others (i.e. Pholon, SirJolt, Kiante, Kiett, l10f, riptide, and so many more that I feel bad only naming just those) to organize Brood War coverage on TL now that we have no pro scene. It's a mess, and we're doing our best to sort through things. The ThSL, for example, may as well be a TL sponsored tournament... it's mostly run by staff + the lovely Torenhire. In fact, I'm about to go spend 3 or 4 hours splitting VODs for it so that it can get a measly 20-100 views. We've started ABC as a preliminary attempt at rounding up amateur news. I ask you, what are you really asking of TL? This thread is full of a lot of blaming and pointing of fingers, and it's frustrating as someone who puts a lot of effort into making our news coverage professional and robust to have the finger pointed in this direction. I apologize for being this confrontational. This hit a nerve. The reality is, we're only human. The difference between "TL staff" and you is that our contributions have given us fancy forum icons and names. That's it. If you want to help... if you want to make TL coverage better... find ways to contribute. 2pac has asked for contributors for ABC in the past two volumes, and the response has been... sad. Do you want to see a better BW scene? I know I do. Do something about it.
I do not want this to turn into a flame war. I did not claim that there Brood War has not been covered on TL.net recently, nor did I demand that "foreign" BW be given the same amount of attention as SC2.
I am really just a user, but I am very grateful to everyone who does anything for BW on this website, whether they are staff members or not. And I want to take this opportunity to thank you personally for the work you've put in for us.
The feeling of abandonment comes from the fact that BW is now essentially invisible on the default main page. I know that there are monetary concerns involved in what is shown there, but the fact is that nobody who doesn't already know about Brood War would get interested in it by looking at this website. And there is about 13 years' worth of accumulated content here. I know that Liquipedia is supposed to collect all of that information, but realistically, I don't think it makes for good introductory material. It would be nice to have something visible on the main page, which would lead a new viewer to Brood War content that could get them interested in the game. It doesn't have to be non-Korean amateur stuff, it can just be a link to a page with VODs of the most memorable moments from the individual star leagues. But right now, there is really nothing to attract people who don't already know Brood War to this game.
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On September 08 2012 15:10 hacklebeast wrote:
you mean the overlays for isl? I can give you those if you want them.
And since this thread doesn't exactly have a consistent topic: I wanted to ask if anyone prefers the vods split by individual games rather than in groups (ie series, team match, group, ect). I have heard some people say that, but I prefer the longer vods myself, and I haven't heard a really good argument otherwise. But if someone had a really compelling argument, I could start doing them that way.
I guess the topic of this thread has become "How to improve our BW experience". 
My preference: I think for things like the team leagues, the long VOD format (one VOD for an entire team match) fits quite well. But for things like the semi-finals or finals of an individual league, I think splitting the match into individual games might be better, because it gives it more of an OSL feel.
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Canada5155 Posts
It's not a money thing, it's just the reality of front page real-estate and pleasing as many of our users as possible.
The content you're suggesting we display on the front page is either static or rarely updated. The truth is that Starcraft 2 (and now Dota 2) have far more frequently updated (and more importantly, far more demanded) content.
If TL's goal is to please the majority of its users, that means making decisions such as setting the default for Liquipedia search to SC2 instead of BW. This serves the most people. We could leave it at that, but we do our best to ensure that everyone can be happy; we allow you to customize this. If you so choose, you can set your sidebars to show exclusively Brood War content and nothing else.
What more can you ask for? For the TL front page to be a shrine to the now dead BW pro scene? Or for it to cover the barely organized foreign scene?
Even as a die-hard BW fan, I have to say... these suggestions for the front page are, quite frankly, selfish.
Aside from the sidebars, the rest of the front page is dominated by the news. The news (as I pointed out in my fevered rant) has dried up. There's nothing left to cover at the level of notability our front page requires. SC2 and Dota news, however, is so abundant, that staff has a hard time keeping on top of even the most basic coverage.
Does this mean we want to hide all BW content? No, but the front page serves hundreds of thousands of people. As a community that has always prided itself on high quality service and maintaining the best news coverage, we simply don't have room for a whole lot of BW content on the front page.
So what can we do? As you might have noted in this thread, 2pac suggested that we'd be interested in your thoughts on a BW portal. This could be a place where BW fans can go for BW content, no matter how slow it moves.
Well, believe it or not... this idea has been kicking around among staff since at least spring this year. The trouble is, getting the wheels in motion to get it done is difficult. TL is not some well oiled corporate machine that people seem to think it is.
Staff interested in BW have been doing what they can. ABC was our first step in terms of centralizing content. Earlier this week I was discussing with 2pac how to make that better. Naturally, our second step is around the corner...
Abandonment is not the right way to frame this. TL has grown exponentially... and BW has shrank ...exponentially. This doesn't mean we've forgotten about it, or worse, let it go. There are still many of us dedicated to keeping the community here thriving. To be doing this while everyone says you've abandoned the game is... discouraging.
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On September 08 2012 15:10 hacklebeast wrote:
you mean the overlays for isl? I can give you those if you want them.
And since this thread doesn't exactly have a consistent topic: I wanted to ask if anyone prefers the vods split by individual games rather than in groups (ie series, team match, group, ect). I have heard some people say that, but I prefer the longer vods myself, and I haven't heard a really good argument otherwise. But if someone had a really compelling argument, I could start doing them that way.
Let me try answering that.. For an outsider who doesn't follow the league, split VODs are a lot more appealing as he can directly choose a game/MU he wants to see and get the experience he wants. This guy won't probably care about the intermezzo talk and the last thing he wants to do is click around the VOD to find something/someone he's interested in. Also if you are presented with something you don't really care about and are offered a 2hr vid or a 15min vid, chances are you're likely to click the 15min one, just to give it a shot.
For an insider who follows the league but doesn't have enough time to see it all, again split format seems better + ideally with recommended games polls.
For an insider like me, an uncut VOD is better because I watch it from bed and nothing kills me more than standing up to go click each individual VOD D: Also it removes the possibility of any spoilers (like youtube length, related videos).
Ultimately, I think split VODs are the better choice, because the experienced viewer like me might also know how to find the VOD in the twitch archives, hence no need for uploading at all (unless there are some lag issues with viewing the vods that I don't know about). No reason not to provide a link to the uncut VOD in the youtube video description of the split vids or the thread though!
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On September 08 2012 17:47 Stratos wrote:
For an insider like me, an uncut VOD is better because I watch it from bed and nothing kills me more than standing up to go click each individual VOD D: Also it removes the possibility of any spoilers (like youtube length, related videos).
Or the uploader could just upload anti-spoiler VODs and put all the VODs from one series into a playlist to solve both those problems, as I've been doing for SPL.
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Canada5155 Posts
On September 08 2012 17:47 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 15:10 hacklebeast wrote:
you mean the overlays for isl? I can give you those if you want them.
And since this thread doesn't exactly have a consistent topic: I wanted to ask if anyone prefers the vods split by individual games rather than in groups (ie series, team match, group, ect). I have heard some people say that, but I prefer the longer vods myself, and I haven't heard a really good argument otherwise. But if someone had a really compelling argument, I could start doing them that way. Let me try answering that.. For an outsider who doesn't follow the league, split VODs are a lot more appealing as he can directly choose a game/MU he wants to see and get the experience he wants. This guy won't probably care about the intermezzo talk and the last thing he wants to do is click around the VOD to find something/someone he's interested in. Also if you are presented with something you don't really care about and are offered a 2hr vid or a 15min vid, chances are you're likely to click the 15min one, just to give it a shot. For an insider who follows the league but doesn't have enough time to see it all, again split format seems better + ideally with recommended games polls. For an insider like me, an uncut VOD is better because I watch it from bed and nothing kills me more than standing up to go click each individual VOD D: Also it removes the possibility of any spoilers (like youtube length, related videos). Ultimately, I think split VODs are the better choice, because the experienced viewer like me might also know how to find the VOD in the twitch archives, hence no need for uploading at all (unless there are some lag issues with viewing the vods that I don't know about). No reason not to provide a link to the uncut VOD in the youtube video description of the split vids or the thread though!
This is something I've thought about and, when splitting VODs for ThSL, decided on a simple compromise: Playlists.
ThSL VODs are split, but each round and group are available as a playlist on the youtube channel. I haven't really advertised this as much, but I think it's a happy solution.
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@HawaiianPig: You are right, the link I was suggesting would be a static element. It would lead to a page that would be designed once and then never updated, but maybe improved occasionally. It would take up about the same space in the main horizantal menu as the "Starcraft 2" button. And I don't really expect it to happen, for a large number of reasons. But you are right, I would have liked some sort of "shrine", something about the history of Brood War (and incidentally, this website), that could also serve as an introduction for anyone interested.
What you said about customization is perfectly true, but not related to my point, namely that Brood War is invisible on TL.net to anyone but insiders. The thing about BW's dwindling popularity seems like a feedback loop to me. It's not popular enough so it gets less visibility, then it becomes even less popular, and so forth. This has been going on for a long time, and I have a strong feeling that it was deliberate (in the sense that it started being made less visible back when there was plenty of support for BW). I think that BW here was scaled back, but every time someone mentions this they are dismissed as rabid fans.
If my statement that TL.net has abandoned BW bothers you, I'll rephrase it as "TL.net's priorities have changed, and do not include Brood War". It is a statement about the website as a whole, and not individual staff members. And it is an obvious fact to anyone who watches the website without logging in.
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On September 08 2012 06:30 Gecko[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 05:10 Game wrote:On September 08 2012 00:27 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
Nowadays we need money, tons of text, an image here and there and hope it'll make it better. Are you implying that these don't make it better? The way they're used now make it worse. A giant artificial hype around an agenda based event with no further information - that's today's standard. Most of these are updated for about the first 50%, then stuff gets completely ignored and the ordinary viewer/user has a hard time to follow. There are other events that use money for low level players - I honestly don't get why the people that still play (after 2++ years of a dead foreign scene) need 100$++ to get their asses up to play or do anything remotely productive. I get that this makes stuff more interesting, but it shouldn't be the only motivation (which it seems to be) for the players / organizers. A huge prize pool doesn't mean it'll be a good tournament. A big banner and three pages of badly phrased rules don't guarantee overview. This is stuff you organize to support the event, not to artificially hype something that would not work otherwise.
Huh? I think you just insulted the work of a lot of people and even random low level players with no reason at all.
High prizepool doesn't guarantee a good tournament but so does nothing else, really. How does the prizepool harm it? If anything, if there's an apparent input of effort from a lot of people, it shows that people do care about the tournament and want to make it good.
How you manage to deduce that the players in the tourney are lazy money-seeking worms from a prizepool is completely beyond me. Just because you're an active contributor (and a great one if I may say so) doesn't mean you can go about insulting random people and their work like that.
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We have a war for the biggest contributor :niceface:
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We've touched on a pretty big issue. It can't really be solved unless we get:
1 More viewers.
2 More sponsors
3 More money
4 More tournaments
5 More players
and more stuff in general. It is a vicious cycle. And like it has been said, it is quite unlikely we will ever see the level of activity in Brood War that we saw prior to SC2 again.
But. What we can do is appreciate the scene we have now. The guys who play in GC are insanely talented. Sziky played against koreans for goodness sake. These guys are good. We can still appreciate the high level of brood war that gets played. But we won't have proleague, or osl or msl.
It is a bitter pill to swallow but I can't help but feel like some of you guys are living with some false hope it'll all come back.
Watch Gambits Cup (it's amazing). Watch ThSL. Watch ASL. Watch the incredible streams we have (dewalt currently pounding some Chinese players. Go play it yourself. But whatever you do, don't complain.
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EPT
