EPThttp://broodwarvods.webs.com/
Everything I need to say is on the about page.
Viva la Brood War!
A request for Brood War event managers - Page 4
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BookTwo
1985 Posts
http://broodwarvods.webs.com/ Everything I need to say is on the about page. Viva la Brood War! | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9527 Posts
On September 07 2012 19:37 GeLaar wrote: The way you say it, it sounds as it is a favor done to us that these streams are even allowed on the Calendar. I'm past being bitter about this, but it is a matter of TL abandoning us. This has gone on since well before professional BW was nearing its end (since before even the last MSL finals, in fact), and has nothing to do with the shakiness of the amateur scene. And the condescending and sometimes downright rude attitude some of the staff members have had towards BW fans who complained, has done a lot to erode the good feelings I had about this site. Please stop talking out of your ass and instead post some constructive criticism. Saying TL abandoned you doesn't mean anything and it certainly doesn't help anything. Try to be more specific about the problems you're having with TL and say what would be an optimal solution in your mind. I'll repeat again, TL is not some entity that is disconnected from the community. TL staff are members of the community. So please write something substantial and we actually might do something about it, together. Hearing your pointless grumbling without offering any insight into the problem is very disheartening, especially since we're actively seeking ways to please the BW community. | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
On September 07 2012 22:22 BookTwo wrote: So I tried something out. Not sure if it'll work lol. Crude but effective. http://broodwarvods.webs.com/ Everything I need to say is on the about page. Viva la Brood War! Sick. Few ideas. 1. Structure of the site. If you embed plenty youtube videos in one page, certain clients (like my chrome) will have troubles loading the page. Also as the content might increase in numbers, some kind of a structure will probably be necessary. How this could work: Main page > DRTL Season 3 > DRTL Week 1 page with vods Main page > DRTL Season 3 > DRTL Week 2 page with vods etc. 2. Add the team names in the description below if possible. Ultimately it would probably be better if we could just get BW results in a TL BW portal linking to liquipedia pages with VODs.. but like you point out on the site, this is not a bad idea at all until something like that (possibly) happens. Or, even better, is there any reason why we're not using this: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/international for the foreign scene? With professional BW gone why not make use of this? It would also be useful for creating player/team statistics. If we could get this thing started I'm confident we could find enough contributors to make it work and cover at least the biggest events (ISL, GC etc.). After all it's TL BW International Gaming Database. Gaming, not progaming. Also, the scene is not that big if we don't include yellow, red and no spire leagues. Does anyone have experience with how this works? Who's responsible for the international BW section? How could one help mantaining it? For an idea, this is what the community has already been able to come up with on liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Category:Foreign_Players http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Category:Tournaments | ||
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GeLaar
2421 Posts
On September 07 2012 22:22 BookTwo wrote: So I tried something out. Not sure if it'll work lol. Crude but effective. http://broodwarvods.webs.com/ Everything I need to say is on the about page. Viva la Brood War! I, for one, like it already. If I may offer one suggestions, though: Having links to VODs is awesome, but clicking on one event loads up all of the embedded VODs at once, which eats up a lot of processing power unnecessarily, and makes for long loading times. Would it be possible to do something similar to the spoiler tags in the TL.net forums, so that an embedded VOD only gets loaded when someone clicks on a link to unspoiler? The Small VOD thread used to be like this, but recently someone else has been updating the thread, and he or she is using the spoiler tags differently, so that all of the flash elements load when you go to a page, even if you don't click to unspoiler. But overall, I think this could turn out really great. Having one place to collect VOD links for different BW events would be massive. Big thanks! | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9527 Posts
On September 07 2012 22:57 Stratos wrote: Or, even better, is there any reason why we're not using this: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/international for the foreign scene? With professional BW gone why not make use of this? It would also be useful for creating player/team statistics. If we could get this thing started I'm confident we could find enough contributors to make it work and cover at least the biggest events (ISL, GC etc.). After all it's TL BW International Gaming Database. Gaming, not progaming. Also, the scene is not that big if we don't include yellow, red and no spire leagues. There is actually a thread in staff forums about reviving this, but TL's staff forums move at snail pace so it kinda died down. I just bumped it so hopefully we'll have foreign BW scene in TLPD soon. Regardless of that, I think the biggest underused source we have is Liquipedia. And the main point of Liquipedia is that EVERYONE can contribute. In case you didn't know, there is a  Portal:Foreign Scene page. And this portal is in desperate need of contributors. So if you're following tournaments in foreign BW scene and you notice something missing there, add it yourself! If that portal was kept up to date there is pretty much nothing we would need more to keep ourselves updated on the current stuff in foreign BW scene.I noticed that almost all tournaments currently running have their own Liquipedia page, which is commendable, but when I go to Leagues (Foreign) page I don't see them listed, which is a shame since that would be a pretty cool place to see all the leagues currently running and their status. | ||
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Eywa-
Canada4876 Posts
On September 07 2012 23:28 2Pacalypse- wrote: There is actually a thread in staff forums about reviving this, but TL's staff forums move at snail pace so it kinda died down. I just bumped it so hopefully we'll have foreign BW scene in TLPD soon. Regardless of that, I think the biggest underused source we have is Liquipedia. And the main point of Liquipedia is that EVERYONE can contribute. In case you didn't know, there is a Portal:Foreign Scene page. And this portal is in desperate need of contributors. So if you're following tournaments in foreign BW scene and you notice something missing there, add it yourself! If that portal was kept up to date there is pretty much nothing we would need more to keep ourselves updated on the current stuff in foreign BW scene.I noticed that almost all tournaments currently running have their own Liquipedia page, which is commendable, but when I go to Leagues (Foreign) page I don't see them listed, which is a shame since that would be a pretty cool place to see all the leagues currently running and their status.I tried to add all the current active players to the foreign portal on liquipedia so that people would be able to see who's playing in this league game, but the ones judged to not be accomplished enough were removed and I'm still banned from posting anything on liquipedia due to articles on Semih and Favorite. Edit: So this is not an option, given that most players who are currently playing aren't good enough to be recognized. | ||
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GeckoVOD
Germany814 Posts
On September 07 2012 23:28 2Pacalypse- wrote: [...] Regardless of that, I think the biggest underused source we have is Liquipedia. And the main point of Liquipedia is that EVERYONE can contribute. [...] Sorry for quoting you again, but that's like one issue most of the OPs miss in their threads. I don't want to piss of anyone, but it seems to me that it is more common to start a thread like this every other month or every other week, depending on which event recently died, starting to order people around without actually doing anything. There are only very few persons to actually try to edit LP, regardless of how easy it is to start writing. After that the biggest part of the first-time editors go back and think that's it. Right now there are like ten persons at best that edited foreign Brood War articles - endy for example. You feel so alone, no support or anything coming from the community. It's just wasted time and energy, especially when you see that the newest tournaments mostly ignore LP and just rely on the rest of "us" (whoever that is that still cares enough) to fill what they didn't care to do. How can you ask someone to help if you don't give enough shit to provide the essential information that's needed for free? It seems that the more people stand around, the more people expect everyone else to do the work, so you have more time to complain. With that in mind I just can applaud to people that keep stuff like DRTL, Defiler, ABC and ThSL running. People should start to realize that "the past" events were so great because everyone contributed. Not only the orgas, pages like TL/GG/bw.de, but also the user base. I miss that and I honestly don't see the spirit here anymore. Nowadays we need money, tons of text, an image here and there and hope it'll make it better. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9527 Posts
On September 08 2012 00:07 Eywa- wrote: I tried to add all the current active players to the foreign portal on liquipedia so that people would be able to see who's playing in this league game, but the ones judged to not be accomplished enough were removed and I'm still banned from posting anything on liquipedia due to articles on Semih and Favorite. Edit: So this is not an option, given that most players who are currently playing aren't good enough to be recognized. Maybe you should leave editing Liquipedia to others then and you focus on updating your OWN threads. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363742 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363912 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361696 I won't even mention Gambit Cup which is supposed to be the most prestigious BW team league and yet I need to spend an hour to find the results and VODs, which is a 2 hour long video file. You named your thread [R&S] Gambit's Cup Round 1, but do you know what [R&S] even stands for? It's Results and Standings, which is just misleading to label your thread like that. I don't know what got you banned from editing Liquipedia, but I know that Liquipedia admins don't hand out their bans lightly. So please don't spread false propaganda as editing Liquipedia is still very much an option, but there are rules which you must follow or otherwise it would end up a cesspool of misinformation. | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
On September 07 2012 23:28 2Pacalypse- wrote: There is actually a thread in staff forums about reviving this, but TL's staff forums move at snail pace so it kinda died down. I just bumped it so hopefully we'll have foreign BW scene in TLPD soon. This is great news! Regardless of that, I think the biggest underused source we have is Liquipedia. And the main point of Liquipedia is that EVERYONE can contribute. In case you didn't know, there is a Portal:Foreign Scene page. And this portal is in desperate need of contributors. So if you're following tournaments in foreign BW scene and you notice something missing there, add it yourself! If that portal was kept up to date there is pretty much nothing we would need more to keep ourselves updated on the current stuff in foreign BW scene.I noticed that almost all tournaments currently running have their own Liquipedia page, which is commendable, but when I go to Leagues (Foreign) page I don't see them listed, which is a shame since that would be a pretty cool place to see all the leagues currently running and their status.And that's kinda the story with liquipedia atm. Few of us started contributing and a lot of the organizers are doing a great job but it will take some time for everyone to adjust to this (I mean since this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345229 ). There's no underlying system, it's just page after page that are connected by linking to each other and that's it. So if you consider that one team splits into to, you need to create 2 new team pages, announce retirement in the original team page, change the team in the profile page of every member of the new teams + in the foreign portal overview of active players + god knows where. It's almost impossible to do everything right if you're new to editing and liquipedia in general. Nevertheless liquipedia is a great source and it's up to us to learn how to use it properly as did the generations before us, and not the other way around. The only reason I'm mentioning this is because (if I understand the system right) this is not the case with TLPD. If such a change of teams happen, I would assume you just edit this in one place and it affects every other page where the team/player might be displayed. + There are the individual matches history with VODs, statistics and all that good stuff, which is realistically impossible to achieve in the liquipedia system. So I really hope that foreign TLPD could be revived. Good news, good stuff. Let's hope for the best  Hope = restored! | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
On September 07 2012 22:22 BookTwo wrote: So I tried something out. Not sure if it'll work lol. Crude but effective. http://broodwarvods.webs.com/ Everything I need to say is on the about page. Viva la Brood War! Looks really nice, good work! | ||
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
On September 07 2012 22:22 BookTwo wrote: So I tried something out. Not sure if it'll work lol. Crude but effective. http://broodwarvods.webs.com/ Everything I need to say is on the about page. Viva la Brood War! Wow, awesome!!! | ||
Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6794 Posts
On September 08 2012 02:29 Sayle wrote: I completely agree with everything 2pac and Gecko are saying. The current BW "community" is far too happy with just blaming TL/SC2/ponies for not supporting them when almost nobody puts in any effort themselves. And even those that do make things happen are often embroiled in various stupid arguments and drama which just tarnishes whatever work they've done. If you want TL to spotlight the current amateur BW scene, then make it something worth spotlighting. At the moment, I'd actually be embarassed if any of the foreigner events made it to the front page because of how poor they make the scene look. hard to eat but true | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On September 08 2012 02:29 Sayle wrote: I completely agree with everything 2pac and Gecko are saying. The current BW "community" is far too happy with just blaming TL/SC2/ponies for not supporting them when almost nobody puts in any effort themselves. And even those that do make things happen are often embroiled in various stupid arguments and drama which just tarnishes whatever work they've done. If you want TL to spotlight the current amateur BW scene, then make it something worth spotlighting. At the moment, I'd actually be embarassed if any of the foreigner events made it to the front page because of how poor they make the scene look. I assume you're including ISL3, and if that's the case, have to disagree. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On September 08 2012 00:27 Gecko[Xp] wrote: Nowadays we need money, tons of text, an image here and there and hope it'll make it better. Are you implying that these don't make it better? | ||
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GeckoVOD
Germany814 Posts
On September 08 2012 05:10 Game wrote: Are you implying that these don't make it better? The way they're used now make it worse. A giant artificial hype around an agenda based event with no further information - that's today's standard. Most of these are updated for about the first 50%, then stuff gets completely ignored and the ordinary viewer/user has a hard time to follow. There are other events that use money for low level players - I honestly don't get why the people that still play (after 2++ years of a dead foreign scene) need 100$++ to get their asses up to play or do anything remotely productive. I get that this makes stuff more interesting, but it shouldn't be the only motivation (which it seems to be) for the players / organizers. A huge prize pool doesn't mean it'll be a good tournament. A big banner and three pages of badly phrased rules don't guarantee overview. This is stuff you organize to support the event, not to artificially hype something that would not work otherwise. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On September 08 2012 06:30 Gecko[Xp] wrote: The way they're used now make it worse. A giant artificial hype around an agenda based event with no further information - that's today's standard. Most of these are updated for about the first 50%, then stuff gets completely ignored and the ordinary viewer/user has a hard time to follow. There are other events that use money for low level players - I honestly don't get why the people that still play (after 2++ years of a dead foreign scene) need 100$++ to get their asses up to play or do anything remotely productive. I get that this makes stuff more interesting, but it shouldn't be the only motivation (which it seems to be) for the players / organizers. A huge prize pool doesn't mean it'll be a good tournament. A big banner and three pages of badly phrased rules don't guarantee overview. This is stuff you organize to support the event, not to artificially hype something that would not work otherwise. This is where you went wrong. Constructive criticism stops the second you insert a delusional opinion of something that's simply false. I agree that certain aspects of the community need to stop having money injected into them. However, you not only generalize this as the entire community in your posts, but define the scene as something that no longer exists in a practical manner. You're just wrong. Under your logic, I have to propose a question. If the scene has been dead for two years, are we all simply necrophiliac whores? After all, if we have the ability to acquire sponsors and inject money into the dead scene, we are alive and need the money, yet some estranged morgue rapists? | ||
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BookTwo
1985 Posts
On September 07 2012 23:14 GeLaar wrote: I, for one, like it already. If I may offer one suggestions, though: Having links to VODs is awesome, but clicking on one event loads up all of the embedded VODs at once, which eats up a lot of processing power unnecessarily, and makes for long loading times. Would it be possible to do something similar to the spoiler tags in the TL.net forums, so that an embedded VOD only gets loaded when someone clicks on a link to unspoiler? The Small VOD thread used to be like this, but recently someone else has been updating the thread, and he or she is using the spoiler tags differently, so that all of the flash elements load when you go to a page, even if you don't click to unspoiler. But overall, I think this could turn out really great. Having one place to collect VOD links for different BW events would be massive. Big thanks! No. webs.com is a free website creation tool. If they had spoiler tags I'd definitely use them. I'm still making it as spoiler free as possible. And thanks for the vote of confidence everyone! | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On September 08 2012 06:51 Game wrote: This is where you went wrong. Constructive criticism stops the second you insert a delusional opinion of something that's simply false. I agree that certain aspects of the community need to stop having money injected into them. However, you not only generalize this as the entire community in your posts, but define the scene as something that no longer exists in a practical manner. You're just wrong. Under your logic, I have to propose a question. If the scene has been dead for two years, are we all simply necrophiliac whores? After all, if we have the ability to acquire sponsors and inject money into the dead scene, we are alive and need the money, yet some estranged morgue rapists? Man knows how to paint a picture lol | ||
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GeckoVOD
Germany814 Posts
On September 08 2012 06:51 Game wrote: [...] This is where you went wrong. Constructive criticism stops the second you insert a delusional opinion of something that's simply false. I agree that certain aspects of the community need to stop having money injected into them. However, you not only generalize this as the entire community in your posts, but define the scene as something that no longer exists in a practical manner. You're just wrong. Under your logic, I have to propose a question. If the scene has been dead for two years, are we all simply necrophiliac whores? After all, if we have the ability to acquire sponsors and inject money into the dead scene, we are alive and need the money, yet some estranged morgue rapists? I have problems to understand your last sentence. Since the Beta almost every page broke down. What used to be the biggest foreign platform can be happy to have 800 players online, a year ago 1000. Broodwar.de used to have a server (up to mid 2010) only for rookies, and they had around 100 more or less active players with more than 1500 accounts registered. _Only German speaking_ rookies. If you really want to compare the scene now to what it used to be before Beta, you're gonna have to admit that it is basically dead. There is no more international scene to speak of, no more nation wars (friendly based), something like the GG.net ranking, updated LP coverage, anything that could be really compared to TSL/WCG or stuff like Zotac/incup/bw4ever/ESL, not to mention more than TL for English coverage. Where are the new players? Like really enough players to at least make up for those who left entirely? I won't stop anyone from dreaming or flame the persons that still try to give their best to still promote Brood War, organize stuff like DRTL and good tours like ThSL, but sorry, don't try to cover up that it's not gonna be anything like before SCII. The chances to have a bigger scene again are beyond impossible. And with most stuff going on right now I don't see this changing anytime soon. | ||
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