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mtn
729 Posts
On April 22 2012 11:31 Rainfall7711 wrote: You just ignored what he said. He didn't mention Korean popularity. He said there aren't any sponsors. As far as i'm aware this is a fact. WOW thank you. Actually the only one that understood what I meant. | ||
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Masheyoon
United States781 Posts
On April 22 2012 11:28 LEGAsee wrote: Holy shit dat ignorance. Also lol, the FOMOS dude even mentions in the interview that you obviously hadn't read that the BW scene is still bigger than the SC2 scene in Korea since you won't believe it when BW players tell you. Excuse my ignorance, I haven't been following the "Death of BW" talk (I've been ignoring it in hopes of it simply going away) so I don't quite understand. If the BW scene is bigger than the SC2 scene, why is KeSPA even bothering with a switch? (By the way, don't get me wrong, I seriously and genuinely hope this transition never happens. I can't stress how upsetting and depressing it is to hear that this transition is supposedly inevitable. I'm just confused is all.) EDIT: Never mind. Above posts answered my question. | ||
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a9arnn
United States1537 Posts
On April 22 2012 10:17 GinDo wrote: Kawaii played Fantasy?!? VODs or it didn't happen. It was only a ladder game on Kawaii's stream, and only allegedly Fantasy, the name said jung myung hoon and Kawaii asked if it was and the other person said yes, so I assumed it's true  .It happened on his stream the one of the days where he had like some crazy win streak the day before and absurd MMR and was playing some big names all in a row, dunno about VODs but I'm sure there are others that remember it happening too O.o | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On April 22 2012 11:35 Masheyoon wrote: Excuse my ignorance, I haven't been following the "Death of BW" talk (I've been ignoring it in hopes of it simply going away) so I don't quite understand. If the BW scene is bigger than the SC2 scene, why is KeSPA even bothering with a switch? (By the way, don't get me wrong, I seriously and genuinely hope this transition never happens. I can't stress how upsetting and depressing it is to hear that this transition is supposedly inevitable. I'm just confused is all.) EDIT: Never mind. Above posts answered my question. There are various reason why the popularity to sponsorship relationship in regards to BW is broke. Plexa outlined many of the external factors int his post earlier in the thread. On April 21 2012 16:21 Plexa wrote: It isn't even just the closing of MBC game. It's that since 2007 BW has been taking increasingly large hits which have turned off investors. By this I mean... - KeSPA selling PL rights to IEG and causing a huge mess - Savior and the match fixing fiasco - Blizzard lawsuits - Popularity of LoL/hands on approach of Riot All of these things make investing in BW less attractive | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On April 22 2012 01:55 Rainfall7711 wrote: The reality is that BW isn't sustainable alone anymore and why that is doesn't matter. actually, why it isn't sustainable is EXACTLY the problem. i really feel that BW is attracting long-term fans who will stick with the game for years. when SC3 comes out, all the SC2 fans will follow. but i'm pretty sure all the BW fans will still be with BW. i really think it'll be easier to attract newcomers to a game that's been around for years and has cultivated a legendary scene instead of following the flavor of the month. the fact that BW is still around already proves that long term fans are there. did they not say the international fan base was actually growing in this down period? why aren't they expanding here? what's this excuse that it's too late? i honestly think jumping to a new game won't solve the problems that they have. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10537 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:07 kainzero wrote: actually, why it isn't sustainable is EXACTLY the problem. i really feel that BW is attracting long-term fans who will stick with the game for years. when SC3 comes out, all the SC2 fans will follow. but i'm pretty sure all the BW fans will still be with BW. i really think it'll be easier to attract newcomers to a game that's been around for years and has cultivated a legendary scene instead of following the flavor of the month. the fact that BW is still around already proves that long term fans are there. did they not say the international fan base was actually growing in this down period? why aren't they expanding here? what's this excuse that it's too late? i honestly think jumping to a new game won't solve the problems that they have. once a die-hard bw fan, always a die-hard bw fan. my friends asked me wat im going to do now that bw died. i told them id still play. i love this game and nothing will make me let go. | ||
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IseeFish
United States45 Posts
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Pelopidas
Canada225 Posts
Coke had significantly declined in marketshare by 1983 since Pepsi was sweeter and prefered by younger people. Coca-Cola decided to change formulas to one which according to taste tests beat both the older flavor of Coke and Pepsi. Despite the success of these tests, a small minority of people were enraged and threatened to stop drinking Coke. Coke decided to completely replace the old flavour because its bottlers did not want to have to package an additional flavor. Coca-Cola CEO Roberto Goizueta declared "New Coke or no Coke." Once the new formulation went on sale replacing the old one it was remarkably succesful in the Northern United States. Sales increased 8 percent. In spite of early success a strong minority of individuals were enraged by the change. In the southern United States many felt that the flavor change was a northern encroachment on their identity. The new formula was also attacked by many in the media. Eventually sales growth stagnated. Bottlers had problems marketing New Coke, when one of the main selling points of Coke was its longevity, and unchanged status. Bottlers of New Coke were harrassed and shunned in the South. Eventually as a result of threatened boycotts, and pressure, the original Coca-Cola formula was reintorduced. It was tremendously succesful, and gained market share against Pepsi. If you want to learn more take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_coke The main point is attempting to replace a cultural icon, such as Starcraft Brood or Coke can have serious unforseen consequences. While SC2 was easily accepted outside of Korea, it is unlikely that it will be so simple inside Korea. Peer pressure from very passionate fans is a serious obstacle to a succesful implementation of SC2 in proleague. If there is a serious backlash perhaps sponsors will see the relevance of Brood War and realize it is not something that can be discarded or replaced by an inferior product. This could play a major role in regaining sponsor interest. A hope, however faint, does remain. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:07 kainzero wrote: actually, why it isn't sustainable is EXACTLY the problem. i really feel that BW is attracting long-term fans who will stick with the game for years. when SC3 comes out, all the SC2 fans will follow. but i'm pretty sure all the BW fans will still be with BW. i really think it'll be easier to attract newcomers to a game that's been around for years and has cultivated a legendary scene instead of following the flavor of the month. the fact that BW is still around already proves that long term fans are there. did they not say the international fan base was actually growing in this down period? why aren't they expanding here? what's this excuse that it's too late? i honestly think jumping to a new game won't solve the problems that they have. There will be people that stick with sc2 when sc3 is released, just like people play 1.6 and will stick with it after CS:GO and there are CS:S players that will stick with it after CS:GO as well. People that like one game in a series/genre may not like the next one, it's just as simple as that. But the fact is that it's basically impossible (or at least very difficult) for BW to garner a large following of new people. Most people won't watch a game they don't/haven't played, and why would they start playing BW? The game is hard to get into for a new comer, there are people with years of experience already, the graphics aren't good, etc. If it was possible to accurately convey how good the game is to newcomers you might be able to grab a decent audience, but it's just not feasible. Honestly, a sc2/BW PL could be the best thing for BW right now (as awful as it sounds... ugh), if all of the sc2 players that haven't watched high-level BW are exposed to it they may start following the scene. Even if it's just 10-20% of the foreign SC2 scene that would be a start. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:36 Skwid1g wrote: There will be people that stick with sc2 when sc3 is released, just like people play 1.6 and will stick with it after CS:GO and there are CS:S players that will stick with it after CS:GO as well. People that like one game in a series/genre may not like the next one, it's just as simple as that. But the fact is that it's basically impossible (or at least very difficult) for BW to garner a large following of new people. Most people won't watch a game they don't/haven't played, and why would they start playing BW? The game is hard to get into for a new comer, there are people with years of experience already, the graphics aren't good, etc. If it was possible to accurately convey how good the game is to newcomers you might be able to grab a decent audience, but it's just not feasible. Honestly, a sc2/BW PL could be the best thing for BW right now (as awful as it sounds... ugh), if all of the sc2 players that haven't watched high-level BW are exposed to it they may start following the scene. Even if it's just 10-20% of the foreign SC2 scene that would be a start. That's some hypothetical scenario you are bringing up unfortunately if those sc2 players wanted to know more about the bw scene they would have followed it from the beginning . Constant complaining and bugging from sc2 fans on every bw stream such as " People still play this game ? " and " Graphics so bad trolololol " . What makes you think sc2 fans will ever watch bw ? Nah combination of sc2 / bw is going to make our pro gamers trying to cover two bases at the same time which is going to degrade the quality of the games rather than make both interesting . | ||
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[V]
United States905 Posts
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:51 Resistentialism wrote: Stream chat has never been and will never be a place where you want to conduct a survey of opinions. Any stream chat, anywhere, ever. It paints the picture on the maturity of sc2 players especially when bw players never hop on sc2 streams and bug you guys about how the game sucks so bad . | ||
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Ryo
8787 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:07 kainzero wrote: actually, why it isn't sustainable is EXACTLY the problem. i really feel that BW is attracting long-term fans who will stick with the game for years. when SC3 comes out, all the SC2 fans will follow. but i'm pretty sure all the BW fans will still be with BW. i really think it'll be easier to attract newcomers to a game that's been around for years and has cultivated a legendary scene instead of following the flavor of the month. the fact that BW is still around already proves that long term fans are there. did they not say the international fan base was actually growing in this down period? why aren't they expanding here? what's this excuse that it's too late? i honestly think jumping to a new game won't solve the problems that they have. This is a good point. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:54 Sawamura wrote: It paints the picture on the maturity of sc2 players especially when bw players never hop on sc2 streams and bug you guys about how the game sucks so bad . Sure, and your bringing it up is something like my racist great uncle bringing up his painted picture version of a chinese guy. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On April 22 2012 13:01 Resistentialism wrote: Sure, and your bringing it up is something like my racist great uncle bringing up his painted picture version of a chinese guy. Point is bw players are more matured than sc2 players and if you can't accept that . That's your problem  | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
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Masheyoon
United States781 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:07 kainzero wrote: actually, why it isn't sustainable is EXACTLY the problem. i really feel that BW is attracting long-term fans who will stick with the game for years. when SC3 comes out, all the SC2 fans will follow. but i'm pretty sure all the BW fans will still be with BW. i really think it'll be easier to attract newcomers to a game that's been around for years and has cultivated a legendary scene instead of following the flavor of the month. the fact that BW is still around already proves that long term fans are there. did they not say the international fan base was actually growing in this down period? why aren't they expanding here? what's this excuse that it's too late? i honestly think jumping to a new game won't solve the problems that they have. Exactly. I don't quite see the logic in switching to a different game, especially when the current game is much more popular. It won't fix the mess KeSPA caused with PL. The only reason why this idea is plausible is becuase BW legends such as Bisu, Flash and Jaedong will be playing it. But... I still don't see the logic. KeSPA should keep BW around and at least try to reevaluate their business structure. | ||
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densha
United States797 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:07 kainzero wrote: actually, why it isn't sustainable is EXACTLY the problem. i really feel that BW is attracting long-term fans who will stick with the game for years. when SC3 comes out, all the SC2 fans will follow. but i'm pretty sure all the BW fans will still be with BW. i really think it'll be easier to attract newcomers to a game that's been around for years and has cultivated a legendary scene instead of following the flavor of the month. the fact that BW is still around already proves that long term fans are there. did they not say the international fan base was actually growing in this down period? why aren't they expanding here? what's this excuse that it's too late? i honestly think jumping to a new game won't solve the problems that they have. Your point seems kind of moot when "flavor of the month" in this case means "10+ years". The FPS and fighting game scenes seem to move in and out of games quickly, which I think is sad. However, with Starcraft, we're talking about Blizzard. There are still two expansions coming for SC2 followed by a period of balance patches for sure. After that we could consider the game actually "finished". The chance Blizzard would go right into making and releasing SC3 even within ten years after that is slim IMO. Also, there are a couple points about the international fan-base. First, whatever new growth there is can probably be attributed to SC2. The increased traffic to Team Liquid alone probably has led to people checking out BW streams. Also casters like Tasteless and Artosis often mention Flash, Jaedong, and other players as well as talking about current SC2 players' BW backgrounds. In other words, what growth has occurred for BW internationally probably would not have happened without SC2. The other point on that though was already mentioned in the article I think: even though BW's popularity has grown some, SC2's growth has been orders of magnitude bigger. Do you really think it's even at all realistic to think that BW could even possibly approach that kind of popularity with SC2 already there (and still growing)? Why would the multitudes of SC2 fans want to watch a game with worse graphics, in 4:3 aspect ratio, with no production tab or other spectator conveniences, etc etc etc.? The fact that an SC2 scene is already firmly established with fan favorites, villains, kongs, match-up specialists, intertwining storylines, and things like that also makes your idea somewhat impossible. Anyway, I'm not saying one game is better than the other or trying to come down on you or anything, but I don't think you're looking at where SC2 is at with foreigners in a realistic way. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On April 22 2012 13:09 Masheyoon wrote: Exactly. I don't quite see the logic in switching to a different game, especially when the current game is much more popular. It won't fix the mess KeSPA caused with PL. The only reason why this idea is plausible is becuase BW legends such as Bisu, Flash and Jaedong will be playing it. But... I still don't see the logic. KeSPA should keep BW around and at least try to reevaluate their business structure. proBW has been been irrevocably damaged it seems. | ||
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