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On April 17 2012 04:19 MrFatalistic wrote:
lol I'm likely much older than you, hence I don't need to act like a elitist and spout off about knowing what an SCV is. I've played 1.0 SC to 1.11 BW where I stopped playing as much only because the people I played with faded away, about the time, you started playing probably, but I won't step to the same of accusing you of knowing nothing.
You think the Q1 players didn't play Q3? - they did and decided that rocket jumping wasn't quite the same (or whatever it was, I'm pathetic at quake) and decided it must suck. Some stuck with Quake1, others went on to create promode which was essentially Q1 inside of Q3, and others went in a different path with RA3. I know for a fact that RA3 kept most of the new stuff than the reimplementing old stuff and was still more popular than promode.
it's still what I said, reluctance to accept change and things that ultimately do just get better but it takes time, you people just dismiss it and put your fingers in your ears.
edit - clarified what promode was.
We seem to be forgetting that you drop quake 2 out of the picture what happen to it ? why compare q1 and q3 only . Quake 3 was definitely an improvement over q2 and I don't see the quake fans going nuts over the idea that the game change to a much more faster pace action than it did for q1 .
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On April 17 2012 04:07 fabiano wrote:
It is not nostalgia, its not resistance to changes. Before YOU even knew what an SCV was, many, if not all, BW fans were EAGERLY WAITING FOR SC2. NO ONE was more hyped for SC2 than BW fans, no one.
Hype, unfortunately, can often leave people very disappointed. It probably makes it harder for people to enjoy a new game. Rather than being pleasantly surprised, there is always the comparison lurking in the back of your mind, and unreasonably high expectations to be met.
In any case, there's a large amount of selection bias in asking a group of self-identified BW fans which game they preferred. I mean, by definition, 100% of BW fans enjoyed BW.
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On April 17 2012 04:22 blubbdavid wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but is your logic:
-You changed to SC2, and you are not nostalgic.
-Therefore, everybody who did not change must be nostalgic.
I'll correct you, I'm stating that instead of letting the form evolve there's a faction that think SC2 has no chance of becoming what SC/BW is. I'm as nostalgic as the next guy, I hate aspects of SC2 vs BW, but I think it will improve. When WOC came out I gave it a shake and found it severely lacking in balance/gameplay, but ultimately TFT made that game a decent contender.
There's this thought that since SC2 isn't there yet (and that's just my opinion, and it's still not what ROC was, a complete joke) that it doesn't get the chance to evolve, BW is better (despite it taking much time to "get there")
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hahaha people saying that I'm resistant to switch to SC2 just because of "nostalgia" and "resistance to changes" must understand me better than I do.
Dammit I must be dumb to waste 115 bucks in a game I didn't want to play!
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On April 17 2012 04:21 gCgCrypto wrote:@fabiano Oh and how the Tribes 1 guys were waiting for Tribes 2 only to be dissapointed that it actually was not Tribes 1. Oh and how the CS guys were waiting for CSS only to be dissapointed that it actually was not CS. Oh and how the Halo 1 guys were waiting for Halo 2 only to be dissapointed that it actually was not Halo 1. ... Only because you were once hyped that does not make you special. Most of eny Fanbase are first hyped for the sequel of thair beloved game only to then stand in the way of all change because they noticed that the sequell would be "different" and would bring tham that change they didn´t want. No matter how meny of you say "It is not nostalgia, its not resistance to changes. Before YOU even knew what an SCV was, many, if not all, BW fans were EAGERLY WAITING FOR SC2. NO ONE was more hyped for SC2 than BW fans, no one." It still does not change the fact that it is exactly that, resistance to changes. In all honesty though: i never saw enyone who played both games enough to know them and did not say that BroodWar was the better one, also i did not see enyone who played both games enough to know and did not say that there is a chance SC2 could evolve to be a worthy replacement if we only work on it. And to all those who say "I PLAYED THE WHOLE BETA SO I KNOW!!!!!" The game changed more then SC1 changed as BW came out, The community is finally managing to get what we need from Blizzard, the Races get balanced way better and there are so meny more projects and ideas in the coming like the 6M1HYG movement and the Start game from Replay tool. I don´t think eny of the SC2 fans would have ever said a negative or provocative word in this thread if you hardcore BW fans did not start the whole thing off with comments of the likes of: Show nested quote +I prefer BW dying than getting replaced by a "successor", so it's memory is not tainted. That's why I'm rooting for LoL (a game that I dislike) rather than SC2. It does have much higher chances of becoming big than SC2, considering LoL is #1 played game in Korea and SC2 doesn't even make it to the top ten, probably not even top 15. (original thread on one of the first pages)
lol putting the people on this site into the camps of BW and SC2 doesn't make sense, and it certainly isn't accurate at all to say "I don´t think eny of the SC2 fans would have ever said a negative or provocative word in this thread if you hardcore BW fans did not start the whole thing off with comments of the likes of...". I can't speak for others in the BW community and you most certainly don't speak for the SC2 community. This back and forth shit has been going on for years now and it's annoying as fuck.
Anyway, they "halo 1 guys were disappointed with halo 2"..etc arguments aren't actually arguments in support of anything. In fact, I was a person that thought halo 2 was superior to Halo 1 (multiplayer at least). I love the first Halo for it's story, the second for it's gameplay, and I enjoyed the 3rd for it's new ideas, though I do think it isn't as good as halo 2 . I'm, at least, not disappointed that SC2 wasn't BW. I'm disappointed that SC2 sucked, or so is my opinion. I have no problem with people enjoying SC2 as much as I enjoy BW, BUT YOU BET YOUR ASS THAT I AM GOING TO COMPLAIN LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER WHEN THE GAME THAT I FEEL IS SUPERIOR IS BEING USURPED BY ONE THAT I FEEL IS INFERIOR! That doesn't mean that it isn't civil or with respectable debate. What pisses me off most, though, is that for some reason people think that "moving on to the sequel" is a) ineveitable b) better. BW is established as a fantastic game and 'Esport'...so why would you want to get rid of it (not you specifically)? Just run both the games and have SC2 stand on it's own if it's that great with it's own leagues. Well that was kinda rant-ish.
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On April 17 2012 04:23 Sawamura wrote:
We seem to be forgetting that you drop quake 2 out of the picture what happen to it ? why compare q1 and q3 only . Quake 3 was definitely an improvement over q2 and I don't see the quake fans going nuts over the idea that the game change to a much more faster pace action than it did for q1 .
True, you could say that Q3 became what it was because of Q2, which I think people did think was a misstep? I don't claim to know that community well, or even this community other than the blind favoritism that is blatantly obvious.
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Well, lets just hope this move if happens, makes both games live atleast 5 more years. Everyone would be fine with that, i assume
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We should rename this thread to NASCAR 2012 or Daytona 500 at this rate.
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On April 17 2012 04:39 MrFatalistic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 04:23 Sawamura wrote:
We seem to be forgetting that you drop quake 2 out of the picture what happen to it ? why compare q1 and q3 only . Quake 3 was definitely an improvement over q2 and I don't see the quake fans going nuts over the idea that the game change to a much more faster pace action than it did for q1 . True, you could say that Q3 became what it was because of Q2, which I think people did think was a misstep? I don't claim to know that community well, or even this community other than the blind favoritism that is blatantly obvious.
Cs 1.6 and Cs source scene wasn't really close back than . Both scene was arguing that their game was superior than the other and because of that mostly the scene is divided . Hopefully like ksharp says cs go will unite both the scene again .
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@LEGAsee
I see your point and apriciate a actually good response.
And i by no means think that transitioning from BW to SC2 makes enything better at all.
However i think in the current state it is necessarry.
I would have loved for SC2 to be exactly like BW but with better grafix but that is only me.
What makes me so mad is how the initial thread didnt start off with "oh it sucks we, we don´t want our Pros to go enywhere" but with "Oh it sux, i hope our pros quit progaming or go to lol so they do not play SC2"
There is a severe difference between being mad about Broodwar seemingly coming to the end and being mad about Broodwar merging with SC2.
I fully understand everyone that feels bad that his passion (and for my my whole childhood) is going down but i feel no empathy at all for those that only feel bad because what they love is swiching to sc2.
That might not be the case for most, actually i think the lesser amount is like that but sadly exactly those contribute a lot to the conversation.
to try and finally formulate what i try to say all the time:
What makes me so mad is the "FUC* YOU SC2 KIDS, YOU DON´T DESERVE OUR PROS" attitude that some show in this thread, as if SC2 caused all this and as if SC2 did not work for what it is now
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On April 17 2012 04:50 gCgCrypto wrote:
to try and finally formulate what i try to say all the time:
What makes me so mad is the "FUC* YOU SC2 KIDS, YOU DON´T DESERVE OUR PROS" attitude that some show in this thread, as if SC2 caused all this and as if SC2 did not work for what it is now
Some people worked for SC2. I respect quite a few of them.
SC2 did not work for what it is.
It's a 3 star rated game on Amazon.
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On April 17 2012 04:50 gCgCrypto wrote:
@LEGAsee
I see your point and apriciate a actually good response.
And i by no means think that transitioning from BW to SC2 makes enything better at all.
However i think in the current state it is necessarry.
I would have loved for SC2 to be exactly like BW but with better grafix but that is only me.
What makes me so mad is how the initial thread didnt start off with "oh it sucks we, we don´t want our Pros to go enywhere" but with "Oh it sux, i hope our pros quit progaming or go to lol so they do not play SC2"
There is a severe difference between being mad about Broodwar seemingly coming to the end and being mad about Broodwar merging with SC2.
I fully understand everyone that feels bad that his passion (and for my my whole childhood) is going down but i feel no empathy at all for those that only feel bad because what they love is swiching to sc2.
That might not be the case for most, actually i think the lesser amount is like that but sadly exactly those contribute a lot to the conversation.
to try and finally formulate what i try to say all the time:
What makes me so mad is the "FUC* YOU SC2 KIDS, YOU DON´T DESERVE OUR PROS" attitude that some show in this thread, as if SC2 caused all this and as if SC2 did not work for what it is now
Um... how can some of you guys keep missing the bold parts? It's the proposed format that generated the most uproar rather than SC2 taking over.
Circles. ._.
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I think we should
A) protest for a seperate bw only league
Or
B) somehow finance a new bw league.
Because of esports arent forever and lasting, they arent esports. And when sc3 comes out and we let bw die we also can know sc2 is going down.
It's kinda different from halo 1-2-3. They are the same game with added elements. Bw and sc2 are different perspectives on a concept of rock paper scissors..
I like to watch BW, though i don't. Maybe blizz can release starcraft bw again with sc2 graphics but everything else completely intact. Then it would be marketable, i think. Worst case scenario id want it to happen.
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On April 17 2012 04:53 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 04:50 gCgCrypto wrote:
to try and finally formulate what i try to say all the time:
What makes me so mad is the "FUC* YOU SC2 KIDS, YOU DON´T DESERVE OUR PROS" attitude that some show in this thread, as if SC2 caused all this and as if SC2 did not work for what it is now Some people worked for SC2. I respect quite a few of them. SC2 did not work for what it is. It's a 3 star rated game on Amazon.
rofl then it must be a bad game.
-_-
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On April 17 2012 04:53 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 04:50 gCgCrypto wrote:
@LEGAsee
I see your point and apriciate a actually good response.
And i by no means think that transitioning from BW to SC2 makes enything better at all.
However i think in the current state it is necessarry.
I would have loved for SC2 to be exactly like BW but with better grafix but that is only me.
What makes me so mad is how the initial thread didnt start off with "oh it sucks we, we don´t want our Pros to go enywhere" but with "Oh it sux, i hope our pros quit progaming or go to lol so they do not play SC2"
There is a severe difference between being mad about Broodwar seemingly coming to the end and being mad about Broodwar merging with SC2.
I fully understand everyone that feels bad that his passion (and for my my whole childhood) is going down but i feel no empathy at all for those that only feel bad because what they love is swiching to sc2.
That might not be the case for most, actually i think the lesser amount is like that but sadly exactly those contribute a lot to the conversation.
to try and finally formulate what i try to say all the time:
What makes me so mad is the "FUC* YOU SC2 KIDS, YOU DON´T DESERVE OUR PROS" attitude that some show in this thread, as if SC2 caused all this and as if SC2 did not work for what it is now Um... how can some of you guys keep missing the bold parts? It's the proposed format that generated the most uproar rather than SC2 taking over. Circles. ._.
As I said a few pages back, this entire thread can be summed up by " Circles "
And here I am contributing to it, so I guess it makes me a hypocrite.
Kind of funny that this thread moves faster than most of the threads in the sc2 section.
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On April 17 2012 04:57 Terminal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 04:53 corumjhaelen wrote:On April 17 2012 04:50 gCgCrypto wrote:
to try and finally formulate what i try to say all the time:
What makes me so mad is the "FUC* YOU SC2 KIDS, YOU DON´T DESERVE OUR PROS" attitude that some show in this thread, as if SC2 caused all this and as if SC2 did not work for what it is now Some people worked for SC2. I respect quite a few of them. SC2 did not work for what it is. It's a 3 star rated game on Amazon. rofl then it must be a bad game. -_-
I do think it's a pretty bad game. Of course it's no proof, but that's to give some perspective on the people who act like sc2 is the best game ever, or even the second best rts ever. It just is not.
BW elitist are imho partially responsible for this though, but that's another story.
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On April 17 2012 04:53 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 04:50 gCgCrypto wrote:
@LEGAsee
I see your point and apriciate a actually good response.
And i by no means think that transitioning from BW to SC2 makes enything better at all.
However i think in the current state it is necessarry.
I would have loved for SC2 to be exactly like BW but with better grafix but that is only me.
What makes me so mad is how the initial thread didnt start off with "oh it sucks we, we don´t want our Pros to go enywhere" but with "Oh it sux, i hope our pros quit progaming or go to lol so they do not play SC2"
There is a severe difference between being mad about Broodwar seemingly coming to the end and being mad about Broodwar merging with SC2.
I fully understand everyone that feels bad that his passion (and for my my whole childhood) is going down but i feel no empathy at all for those that only feel bad because what they love is swiching to sc2.
That might not be the case for most, actually i think the lesser amount is like that but sadly exactly those contribute a lot to the conversation.
to try and finally formulate what i try to say all the time:
What makes me so mad is the "FUC* YOU SC2 KIDS, YOU DON´T DESERVE OUR PROS" attitude that some show in this thread, as if SC2 caused all this and as if SC2 did not work for what it is now Um... how can some of you guys keep missing the bold parts? It's the proposed format that generated the most uproar rather than SC2 taking over. Circles. ._.
That is what you were talking about, maby, i did not post this related to you or this topic you just mentioned, i was mostly relating this to a little older posts.
I feel like most community members feel like the the proposed Tournament format is terrible, so i did nto think that there was a lot of discussion going on.
And i have to disagree, i dont think it was the format that created the most uproar, I even think it did create the least, at least from the 17 pages of the initial thread and the like 20 of this one wich i read.
But as i said, rather keep proleague only BW for 1 more season and then swich (or don´t) rather then mixing it ...
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On April 17 2012 04:19 MrFatalistic wrote:
lol I'm likely much older than you, hence I don't need to act like a elitist and spout off about knowing what an SCV is. I've played 1.0 SC to 1.11 BW where I stopped playing as much only because the people I played with faded away, about the time, you started playing probably, but I won't step to the same of accusing you of knowing nothing.
You think the Q1 players didn't play Q3? - they did and decided that rocket jumping wasn't quite the same (or whatever it was, I'm pathetic at quake) and decided it must suck. Some stuck with Quake1, others went on to create promode which was essentially Q1 inside of Q3, and others went in a different path with RA3. I know for a fact that RA3 kept most of the new stuff than the reimplementing old stuff and was still more popular than promod.
it's still what I said, reluctance to accept change and things that ultimately do just get better but it takes time, you people just dismiss it and put your fingers in your ears.
edit - clarified what promod was.
CPMA was awesome and people loved it.
Also cs 1.6 is stronger than source and has always been. Source, the "new" game, vastly inferior to 1.6, has never beat 1.6
ALSO : quake 3 / quakelive ( practically the same ) has always been the best and LOOK AT WHAT HAPPEND WITH QUAKE 4, completely ignored and people now play quake live, so this argument of yours is pretty much irrelevant
you compare Q1 with Q3 i can compare Q3 with Q4 too, same applies to cs
edit : "promod" instead of promode, i'm no grammar nazi but i can't stand it when someone makes a mistake like that.
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You should be thankful the whole mod staff is biased towards BW because the kind of hate that you display towards the other part of the community is simply disgusting. Anything remotely similar happening on the SC 2 side towards BW would be met with many 2 days ban.
As someone said, we (SC 2 guys whom you don't have any respect for) are forced to come here because the other thread has been closed by heyoka. And now we are insulted by raging fans who don't wish to discuss with us because they think only them have the right to speak here.
I feel bad for you. I know I wouldn't like to enter your community right now and I hope you had warmer welcome when you first came here.
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On April 17 2012 04:53 corumjhaelen wrote:
Some people worked for SC2. I respect quite a few of them.
SC2 did not work for what it is.
It's a 3 star rated game on Amazon.
Amazon really? Have you ever read an amazon review. Go look at the reviews for the game. Its mostly fanboys and haters giving 5 and 1 star reviews respectively. The game has problems but no sensible person in the world would say 1 star. I wouldn't give it 5 stars as there are problems and there were especially on launch. and 5 point rating is so flawed you cannot give a reasonable score. Scores in general are flawed but scores out of 5 doubly so.
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EPT
