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On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw?
If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues.
But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why?
Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game.
PS:
Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings..
But the result is just disappointing.
And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them.
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On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them.
Yes, exactly. I think this is the big problem here. Most of the bw fans have tried SC2, just because we were the people who were looking forward to the game the most. While I doubt that more that 0.1% of the people defending SC2 here have actually played bw or watched korean pro-scene.
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On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them.
i fucking hate starcraft 2, literally there's no redeeming quality to it in my eyes, but yet i play it because i have nothing better to do and I am good at it.
that said, i can't imagine most of you guys have good reasons for not liking sc2.
so please, list a few.
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On April 17 2012 02:51 Let it Raine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them. i fucking hate starcraft 2, literally there's no redeeming quality to it in my eyes, but yet i play it because i have nothing better to do and I am good at it. that said, i can't imagine most of you guys have good reasons for not liking sc2. so please, list a few.
Candidate for "most confusing post of the year".
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On April 17 2012 02:51 Let it Raine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them. i fucking hate starcraft 2, literally there's no redeeming quality to it in my eyes, but yet i play it because i have nothing better to do and I am good at it. that said, i can't imagine most of you guys have good reasons for not liking sc2. so please, list a few.
I don't think it's fun to play. Considering that the sole purpose of a game is to entertain and provide fun is there really any other reason needed? For that matter, why do you even care if some people don't like Starcraft 2?
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On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them.
I am a BW and SC2 fan. I have tried both games, and I can honestly say I'm one of the older veterans, despite my join date. I've been watching boxer, nada, yellow, etc since the early days.
I can say SC2 would be undeniably better if it weren't for the battle.net 0.2. BW, as good as it was, is a thing of the past. The engine of 12 unit max, non MBS, non smart cast was holding it back in the global scene. Yes BW is harder, but being harder because of UI deficiency is a not a great way to measure skill. which is why BW was only big in korea, and even then since 2007, it's been on the decline.
PS. please don't say BW is the only true esport. that makes you BW fanatics look even worse. Remember what happened to Milkis's post? yeah let's not go there again. to say BW is the only esport is an insult to every gamer in the world, who strive to be the best, everyone, who put blood, sweat, and tears to build the scene. Just because you don't follow other scenes, doesn't make their gamers and tournaments any less. Naniwa is a great example of a progamer who strives to be the very best. His parents kicked him out of the house in 2008, but that didn't halt his hunger and passion.
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On April 17 2012 00:56 Windwaker wrote:
lol the apm in the video at 22:38min
I have the same apm when the mutas are killing my base and i don't have anyuthing else to do lol. I know that they were not faster in the start of the game, but just saying lol
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On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them.
Well said, not only that but most of the guys I know who still play BW have no ambitions of really making money off the game or going pro at all. We simply play the game because we love it. The same reason why many chose to stick around whereas other games would churn up that would be more welcoming to the international community in terms of making money.
*
I am a BW and SC2 fan. I have tried both games, and I can honestly say I'm one of the older veterans, despite my join date. I've been watching boxer, nada, yellow, etc since the early days.
I can say SC2 would be undeniably better if it weren't for the battle.net 0.2. BW, as good as it was, is a thing of the past. The engine of 12 unit max, non MBS, non smart cast was holding it back in the global scene. Yes BW is harder, but being harder because of UI deficiency is a not a great way to measure skill. which is why BW was only big in korea, and even then since 2007, it's been on the decline.
PS. please don't say BW is the only true esport. that makes you BW fanatics look even worse. Remember what happened to Milkis's post? yeah let's not go there again. to say BW is the only esport is an insult to every gamer in the world, who strive to be the best, everyone, who put blood, sweat, and tears to build the scene. Just because you don't follow other scenes, doesn't make their gamers and tournaments any less. Naniwa is a great example of a progamer who strives to be the very best. His parents kicked him out of the house in 2008, but that didn't halt his hunger and passion.
BlackGosu I follow both as well. I've been around since the very beginning and I've made so many comments about how to look at the BW U.I. that I'm not going to repeat myself but to say the UI deficiency is a joke just like the word esport is one as well.
It's a stupid notion.
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On April 17 2012 02:34 Savant wrote:
I'm a bitter BW fan, and I hate it when SC2 fans come into the bw forums to hype up sc2 while we watch pro bw collapse.
We're about to lose a really close friend we've loved and spent years with, so let us mope and make snarky remarks about SC2 in peace, in the last corner of the site we have left after the SC2 invasion (this site used to be all about Brood War).
We have a right to complain about SC2 you know why? Because Broodwar didn't die a natural death. We were fine for a solid decade, and still going strong. Suddenly Blizzard comes along, makes a completely different game, slaps Starcraft on the label, markets the hell out of it, and creates a counterfeit to our pro leagues that draws away from our pool of players and potential recruits. For everything we liked about bw, there's a prettier, more accessible, hipper version, so naturally few will think about picking up playing or watching bw because it's outdated. Sponsors would never consider expanding pro bw because of this, and without sponsors pro bw dies, along with the playing community. This is tragic because I believe us bw fans have enjoyed playing and watching our game vastly more than SC2 players ever will, and they don't have a clue.
The most enraging thing about all this is...SC2 didn't earn its popularity. If it had been named differently, and Blizzard hadn't poured loads of money to milk the SC brand to jumpstart their own ESPORTS mantra, if then it had spontaneously developed its own system of leagues and sponsors, I wouldn't feel in the least bit offended. But they did, and I'm offended.
So SC2 guys,...
Stop talking up SC2: all of us have played it and concluded it's inferior.
Stop telling us to wait and hope it gets better: bw became big because we recognized its merit immediately
Stop licking your lips at our players in front of us: that adds insult to injury, intentional or not
Recognize that for your game to succeed we had to get screwed hard. Respect that fact, realize we're never going to see eye to eye, and go cheer for bw players switching back in the SC2 forums, where you can be safely ignored.
So what about everyone that supported Brood War for years and who are now fans of SC2? Are they no longer a part of this special clique you seem to be referring to with 'we' and 'us'?
Stop being so delusional, not everyone that played and was a fan of BW now despises SC2. Or let me guess, they weren't real fans of that game anyway. Right?
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On April 17 2012 03:02 BlackGosu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them. I am a BW and SC2 fan. I have tried both games, and I can honestly say I'm one of the older veterans, despite my join date. I've been watching boxer, nada, yellow, etc since the early days. I can say SC2 would be undeniably better if it weren't for the battle.net 0.2. BW, as good as it was, is a thing of the past. The engine of 12 unit max, non MBS, non smart cast was holding it back in the global scene. Yes BW is harder, but being harder because of UI deficiency is a not a great way to measure skill. which is why BW was only big in korea, and even then since 2007, it's been on the decline. PS. please don't say BW is the only true esport. that makes you BW fanatics look even worse. Remember what happened to Milkis's post? yeah let's not go there again. to say BW is the only esport is an insult to every gamer in the world, who strive to be the best, everyone, who put blood, sweat, and tears to build the scene. Just because you don't follow other scenes, doesn't make their gamers and tournaments any less. Naniwa is a great example of a progamer who strives to be the very best. His parents kicked him out of the house in 2008, but that didn't halt his hunger and passion.
While I did not like how Milkis presented that statement about BW being only "true" eSports, if you look at it from Korean scene it is partially true at this point.
Also, I do not agree with your argument there. Sure, you can try to argue that the harder mechanics were preventing the foreigners from being good at the game, but you have to realize that everyone started from the same point. Arguing that foreigners were supposed to lose from the beginning because of the mechanics, in addition to all those Korean arguments in other BW/SC2 threads only shows me that Koreans have more dedication compared to almost every other foreigners out there.
Sure, MBS and unlimited unit selection appeals to larger audience out there, but those mechanics that makes the gameplay easier didn't really appeal to the hardcore BW fans who loved the series due to hard mechanics and amazing gameplay (on top of few other reasons).
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On April 17 2012 03:11 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 03:02 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them. I am a BW and SC2 fan. I have tried both games, and I can honestly say I'm one of the older veterans, despite my join date. I've been watching boxer, nada, yellow, etc since the early days. I can say SC2 would be undeniably better if it weren't for the battle.net 0.2. BW, as good as it was, is a thing of the past. The engine of 12 unit max, non MBS, non smart cast was holding it back in the global scene. Yes BW is harder, but being harder because of UI deficiency is a not a great way to measure skill. which is why BW was only big in korea, and even then since 2007, it's been on the decline. PS. please don't say BW is the only true esport. that makes you BW fanatics look even worse. Remember what happened to Milkis's post? yeah let's not go there again. to say BW is the only esport is an insult to every gamer in the world, who strive to be the best, everyone, who put blood, sweat, and tears to build the scene. Just because you don't follow other scenes, doesn't make their gamers and tournaments any less. Naniwa is a great example of a progamer who strives to be the very best. His parents kicked him out of the house in 2008, but that didn't halt his hunger and passion. While I did not like how Milkis presented that statement about BW being only "true" eSports, if you look at it from Korean scene it is partially true at this point. Also, I do not agree with your argument there. Sure, you can try to argue that the harder mechanics were preventing the foreigners from being good at the game, but you have to realize that everyone started from the same point. Arguing that foreigners were supposed to lose from the beginning because of the mechanics, in addition to all those Korean arguments in other BW/SC2 threads only shows me that Koreans have more dedication compared to almost every other foreigners out there. Sure, MBS and unlimited unit selection appeals to larger audience out there, but those mechanics that makes the gameplay easier didn't really appeal to the hardcore BW fans who loved the series due to hard mechanics and amazing gameplay (on top of few other reasons).
how about try playing wheelchair basketball? surely it's more challenging because you can't use your legs?!
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On April 17 2012 03:10 Terminal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:34 Savant wrote:
I'm a bitter BW fan, and I hate it when SC2 fans come into the bw forums to hype up sc2 while we watch pro bw collapse.
We're about to lose a really close friend we've loved and spent years with, so let us mope and make snarky remarks about SC2 in peace, in the last corner of the site we have left after the SC2 invasion (this site used to be all about Brood War).
We have a right to complain about SC2 you know why? Because Broodwar didn't die a natural death. We were fine for a solid decade, and still going strong. Suddenly Blizzard comes along, makes a completely different game, slaps Starcraft on the label, markets the hell out of it, and creates a counterfeit to our pro leagues that draws away from our pool of players and potential recruits. For everything we liked about bw, there's a prettier, more accessible, hipper version, so naturally few will think about picking up playing or watching bw because it's outdated. Sponsors would never consider expanding pro bw because of this, and without sponsors pro bw dies, along with the playing community. This is tragic because I believe us bw fans have enjoyed playing and watching our game vastly more than SC2 players ever will, and they don't have a clue.
The most enraging thing about all this is...SC2 didn't earn its popularity. If it had been named differently, and Blizzard hadn't poured loads of money to milk the SC brand to jumpstart their own ESPORTS mantra, if then it had spontaneously developed its own system of leagues and sponsors, I wouldn't feel in the least bit offended. But they did, and I'm offended.
So SC2 guys,...
Stop talking up SC2: all of us have played it and concluded it's inferior.
Stop telling us to wait and hope it gets better: bw became big because we recognized its merit immediately
Stop licking your lips at our players in front of us: that adds insult to injury, intentional or not
Recognize that for your game to succeed we had to get screwed hard. Respect that fact, realize we're never going to see eye to eye, and go cheer for bw players switching back in the SC2 forums, where you can be safely ignored. So what about everyone that supported Brood War for years and who are now fans of SC2? Are they no longer a part of this special clique you seem to be referring to with 'we' and 'us'? Stop being so delusional, not everyone that played and was a fan of BW now despises SC2. Or let me guess, they weren't real fans of that game anyway. Right?
You know some 50-60 pages ago I made reference to a blog. You might want to read it.
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On April 17 2012 03:14 BlackGosu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 03:11 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 17 2012 03:02 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them. I am a BW and SC2 fan. I have tried both games, and I can honestly say I'm one of the older veterans, despite my join date. I've been watching boxer, nada, yellow, etc since the early days. I can say SC2 would be undeniably better if it weren't for the battle.net 0.2. BW, as good as it was, is a thing of the past. The engine of 12 unit max, non MBS, non smart cast was holding it back in the global scene. Yes BW is harder, but being harder because of UI deficiency is a not a great way to measure skill. which is why BW was only big in korea, and even then since 2007, it's been on the decline. PS. please don't say BW is the only true esport. that makes you BW fanatics look even worse. Remember what happened to Milkis's post? yeah let's not go there again. to say BW is the only esport is an insult to every gamer in the world, who strive to be the best, everyone, who put blood, sweat, and tears to build the scene. Just because you don't follow other scenes, doesn't make their gamers and tournaments any less. Naniwa is a great example of a progamer who strives to be the very best. His parents kicked him out of the house in 2008, but that didn't halt his hunger and passion. While I did not like how Milkis presented that statement about BW being only "true" eSports, if you look at it from Korean scene it is partially true at this point. Also, I do not agree with your argument there. Sure, you can try to argue that the harder mechanics were preventing the foreigners from being good at the game, but you have to realize that everyone started from the same point. Arguing that foreigners were supposed to lose from the beginning because of the mechanics, in addition to all those Korean arguments in other BW/SC2 threads only shows me that Koreans have more dedication compared to almost every other foreigners out there. Sure, MBS and unlimited unit selection appeals to larger audience out there, but those mechanics that makes the gameplay easier didn't really appeal to the hardcore BW fans who loved the series due to hard mechanics and amazing gameplay (on top of few other reasons). how about try playing wheelchair basketball? surely it's more challenging because you can't use your legs?!
Not my point, try reading again. Wheelchair basketball, StarCraft, or whatever you play, in the beginning everyone started from point zero, and foreigners weren't trying as hard to get good at the game compared to Koreans (cultural reasons involved).
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On April 17 2012 03:02 BlackGosu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them. I am a BW and SC2 fan. I have tried both games, and I can honestly say I'm one of the older veterans, despite my join date. I've been watching boxer, nada, yellow, etc since the early days. I can say SC2 would be undeniably better if it weren't for the battle.net 0.2. BW, as good as it was, is a thing of the past. The engine of 12 unit max, non MBS, non smart cast was holding it back in the global scene. Yes BW is harder, but being harder because of UI deficiency is a not a great way to measure skill. which is why BW was only big in korea, and even then since 2007, it's been on the decline. PS. please don't say BW is the only true esport. that makes you BW fanatics look even worse. Remember what happened to Milkis's post? yeah let's not go there again. to say BW is the only esport is an insult to every gamer in the world, who strive to be the best, everyone, who put blood, sweat, and tears to build the scene. Just because you don't follow other scenes, doesn't make their gamers and tournaments any less. Naniwa is a great example of a progamer who strives to be the very best. His parents kicked him out of the house in 2008, but that didn't halt his hunger and passion.
So now you are saying just because it doesn't have mbs and smart casting it was what stopping broodwar from growing globally ? Man if you were right great legends like Androide taking down silent control in wcg 2005 before losing to ForU will never happen, Players like F91,G5 and all the others respected wcg representative from all the countries will be playing for nothing back than . I think it's really a bad argument to say that just because the UI limitation is exactly the reason for the decline of the whole game not when bw was it's at prime .
Do People really care whether the game is limiting what they can do ? No they did it the bw style and play the game as it is There is no such thing as limitation for players who played it with the desire of improvement be it for winning for themselves or making a career to become a pro gamer .Most touching story for me was Yellow path to become a pro gamer sleeping in the cybercafe and living on instant noodle and yet willing to suffer so much just to become a pro gamer that to me is something I wouldn't have done even if I was given the chance .
Also I think it's every person right to deem what is "TRUE ESPORT" it's their damn opinion to have it and if some people actually can't accept it that's their problem . There is no injustice to it except maybe for the person who hasn't give a try to the other games and I mean not experiencing the other "not so true esport " . I went from a Cs Fan to Sc bw fan after CGS failed so badly and I really thought back than I could actually earn money by playing the games that I love and that is another story . Also I think there are many untold story of players hardship to glory but that doesn't mean each scene is lacking heart warming stories like boxer,yellow and many *korean player * who played it with desire and passion.
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On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why?
Numbers, otherwise your post is meaningless. How many BW fans moved on, how many stayed?
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That sounds like a terrible idea.
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On April 17 2012 02:28 densha wrote:
I think there are design flaws that exist in SC2 right now and I have had my doubts about it here and there, but one thing has convinced me of it's viability as an eSport: MarineKingPrime.
MKP has been on a completely different level than any other pro recently. He's been on what one might call a "hot streak" for three weeks or a month now. His specialty is against Protoss in a time when Protoss is viewed as OP against Terran. His bio splitting is spectacular and well ahead of any other Terran I've seen (see his games in the recent GSTL finals against Parting).
MKP shows there is still a lot of room for growth in SC2 play, that he is pushing the skill ceiling higher than people thought possible, and his new-found consistency shows skill is rewarded handsomely in SC2.
All I'm saying is that I think SC2 is a worthy game worthy of great players. Enough good can't be said about BW, of course, but SC2 isn't as bad as some make it out to be.
I must say I feel the same, but there is stuff that can still be better, multiple fronts of battle etc. Figuring out two base pushes 90% of the time. that kind of thing.
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It's good since this will improve the development of Starcraft 2 in South Korea, but I don't expect much from the current BW teams.
The best War3 players aren't the best Starcraft 2 players, just like the best BW players weren't the best War3 players when a few of them switched...
Grubby, Tod, etc... were all outplaying Stephano so bad that he couldn't even take one game from them...
In fact, they were outplaying him far more than Stephano is currently outplaying both of them in Starcraft 2...
There's a correlation between skill in BW/War3 and skill in Starcraft 2, but it's not a 100% causation...
Some BW players might do very well, and the best/younger they are, the higher their chances of succeeding in Starcraft 2 are.
But claiming that Jaedong/Flash would be head and shoulders above everyone in Starcraft 2 is absolutely ridiculous...
Maybe they are some gems among the current A teamers of BW, I'm not denying that...
But I'm not expecting any of these players to destroy the current pro scene, at the very best a few of them will join the circle of the current champions (MVP, DRG, Nestea, MC...)...
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If the current pros don't do amazingly well in one year's time, this will probably mark the end of programing being a viable career.
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On April 17 2012 02:58 Azure Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:51 Let it Raine wrote:On April 17 2012 02:38 stevewch wrote:On April 17 2012 02:19 BlackGosu wrote:On April 17 2012 02:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 17 2012 01:59 BlackGosu wrote:
The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer. I laughed so hard at this. ? which is why no one plays sc2 anymore? look at the trend, koreans only play LoL. does that mean LoL is more balanced and higher skill ceiling than bw? If SC2 was really such a good game, we BW fans didnt mind waiting for its improvement in technical issues. But quite a lot of us choose to stay with the older game even the sequel is released, why? Simply because the sequel is disappointing in gameplay, which I think is of paramount importance for a game. PS: Please dont say that BW fans havent tried SC2 anymore, I believe most BW fans had given SC2 a chance. Back in 2010, BW fans were the most eagerly-waiting group of people longing for the release of SC2. With the huge success from BW, BW fans just couldnt wait to see how exciting/compelling SC2 could be, how many attentions it could draw, many many other wishful thinkings.. But the result is just disappointing. And for those who want to defend SC2 and say how superiour it is compared to BW, I'd suggest you to spend some times on BW first. You need to know both games to certain extent before making comparison between them. i fucking hate starcraft 2, literally there's no redeeming quality to it in my eyes, but yet i play it because i have nothing better to do and I am good at it. that said, i can't imagine most of you guys have good reasons for not liking sc2. so please, list a few. I don't think it's fun to play. Considering that the sole purpose of a game is to entertain and provide fun is there really any other reason needed? For that matter, why do you even care if some people don't like Starcraft 2?
i came to see if anyone had real opinions or if you were all just hive minding it up
"sc2 sux so bad!!!"
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EPT
