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On April 16 2012 23:45 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote:
I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it. Saying that SC2 "needs more time" is a euphemism for "this game isn't as good as it should have been". If SC2 isn't exciting for non-gamers now, what makes you think that it's going to be exciting for them later? BW generated excitement and mainstream popularity in korea before it became "developed" - because it was a great spectator sport. BW didn't take 12 years to become as exciting as it is now; it was just as exciting 12 years ago. SC2 fans apparantly do not know this. In terms of raw popularity and mainstream interest among a populace, BW is king. You can cite total cash pools, the number of SC2 tournaments, and continue making excuses of "giving it more time" - the reality is that SC2 is lagging in korea and among the foreign community it has been unable to generate any kind of excitement to people other than SC2 players. If the current state of SC2 is success to members of that community, nobody from the BW side is trying to burst your bubbles. What makes people here angry is that people are taking a game that they see as inferior and making stupid comments like "I wish jaedong would switch over" or "BW is dead". The biggest problem with SC2 is that it is a terrible spectator sport. It's intense for the professionals who play it and the amateurs who watch it - and thats where it ends. If SC2 wanted to get on the scale of BW (televised games, draft system, centralized oversight, etc) it would need a total overhaul of the game and that isn't going to happen with time or expansions.
The thing I find most annoying about 'give it time arguments' (which have of courses existed since the game was released), is the weird presumption that SC2 is going to last 10 years. Based on what? I know Blizzard is milking it as long as possible by releasing an expansion two years after release (good lord that's disgusting, especially since it's been hyped since a month after the first games release), but even BW players who fully switched over to SC2 have told me they don't give SC2 5 years, much less the 14 BW has.
+ Show Spoiler [Rant probably wrong] +With BW, I think the possibility of a video game being taken seriously as a sport dies. For a long time I could argue that BW professionals were in fact athletes (without even devaluing it by calling them 'cyber-athletes'). Playing ten hours a day, reasonably stable expectations of the scene, big stages and regular audiences who were willing to pass up newer graphics for the possibility of a video game being a sport. Now, all we have is ESPORTS: advertisements for games that will last only as long as the developers produce content for them. In four more years when hopefully the last SC2 expansion has been out for two years, a new game with better graphics will be out and "ESPORTS" fans will move on to that game. If the big argument for new players is that BW has ugly graphics, think how ugly SC2 is gonna look compared to what we can make in 2016! I mean, it doesn't even have good aesthetic direction right now, it just has polygons and lighting effects. The whole game looks dark and gross, WC4 will easily be better than that. Or maybe it won't even be a Blizzard game, considering how much they've lost themselves in the corporate superstructure. Look forward to a lot of triple A titles with no heart from Blizz.
I don't really take video games seriously. I took BW seriously because to me it was an actual sport, about dedication to the game and excitement within the game. The surrounding cameras, money and tournaments weren't really what made it a sport, they were symptoms of it being a sport. What made it a sport were the people who played it intensely without even needing that monetary incentive. The people who were willing to live off ramen in a tiny apartment with eight other guys because they loved the game and people loved watching them play. A huge difference between them and the people who are pretty good at games in general and want a little extra money in their spare time for playing online tournies, or something to do for a year while they're at a transition stage in the life, planning their career or next level education simultaneously. Why should I want to watch people like that play? I'm not a kid anymore, it doesn't amaze me that there are a lot of people doing a thing or make me think I should be a part of it. I don't fantasize about crowd surfing or being in a huge audience. There has to be an actual value within the activity itself that goes beyond the many superficial tiers of novelty and socializing and community.
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On April 17 2012 00:13 Kiett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 00:07 hugman wrote:On April 16 2012 23:45 white_horse wrote:On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote:
I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it. Saying that SC2 "needs more time" is a euphemism for "this game isn't as good as it should have been". If SC2 isn't exciting for non-gamers now, what makes you think that it's going to be exciting for them later? BW generated excitement and mainstream popularity in korea before it became "developed" - because it was a great spectator sport. BW didn't take 12 years to become as exciting as it is now; it was just as exciting 12 years ago. SC2 fans apparantly do not know this. In terms of raw popularity and mainstream interest among a populace, BW is king. You can cite total cash pools, the number of SC2 tournaments, and continue making excuses of "giving it more time" - the reality is that SC2 is lagging in korea and among the foreign community it has been unable to generate any kind of excitement to people other than SC2 players. If the current state of SC2 is success to members of that community, nobody from the BW side is trying to burst your bubbles. What makes people here angry is that people are taking a game that they see as inferior and making stupid comments like "I wish jaedong would switch over" or "BW is dead". The biggest problem with SC2 is that it is a terrible spectator sport. It's intense for the professionals who play it and the amateurs who watch it - and thats where it ends. If SC2 wanted to get on the scale of BW (televised games, draft system, centralized oversight, etc) it would need a total overhaul of the game and that isn't going to happen with time or expansions. I see people saying "I've never even played SC2 but I love watching it" all the time. It might not be as big in the west as BW is / was in Korea, but it's still by far the most successful esport in the west, ever. Here in Sweden we've had our biggest tabloid put their own SC2 stream right on their front page and Dreamhack held their last finals in damn ice hockey arena. No, not really.
I'm not sure but aren't there a lot more tournaments, cups and prizemoney in SC2 than LoL? Just because it has a bigger playerbase/viewerbase at the moment doesn't make it a more successful ESPORT or even close. I could be wrong though since I don't follow LoL.
It is sad that BW is dying but that's one of the problems with ESPORTS, that games don't last. The original ESPORTS like BW, Quake and CS are dying and the new games that are there to replace them are not nearly as good. But SC2 is still better than most if not all of them.
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@Zergneedsfood
Oh great, because i mentioned the 3 currently most important BW players and did not mention all the others i never was a BW fan? Pathetic ...
I am sure i was longer or at least as long in SC1 as you. I was not in the Proscehne from the Beginning i admit (i was 6!!) but i bought the game in the year of it´s release and played ever since.
And how is it about not bashing SC2?
There are so many SC2 players that are so ignorant
You also imply that SC2 currently sucks dick with this "give it time" proposal.
On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote:
I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. You're funny.
Like I said, fuck this expanding e-sports and expanding Starcraft 2 bullshit.
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You do know that it was SC2 fans who came in and posted dumb provocative shit?
And no you are totally wrong on that one ...
I read the whole initial Thread (which got closed and reopened as that one)
And there was a ton of BW fans bashing SC2 before even 1 SC2 fan posted a comment which was on the likes of "I feel sorry for the BW fans but i am excited for SC2"
so read your f-ing Thread before posting shit like that.
ANd now stop being so buthurt, its not like SC2 Fans are happy about you loosing your BW, we are EXCITED about possible getting the players we once cheered for in BW to SC2 without meaning no harm to BW.
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On April 17 2012 01:27 Kevan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 00:13 Kiett wrote:On April 17 2012 00:07 hugman wrote:On April 16 2012 23:45 white_horse wrote:On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote:
I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it. Saying that SC2 "needs more time" is a euphemism for "this game isn't as good as it should have been". If SC2 isn't exciting for non-gamers now, what makes you think that it's going to be exciting for them later? BW generated excitement and mainstream popularity in korea before it became "developed" - because it was a great spectator sport. BW didn't take 12 years to become as exciting as it is now; it was just as exciting 12 years ago. SC2 fans apparantly do not know this. In terms of raw popularity and mainstream interest among a populace, BW is king. You can cite total cash pools, the number of SC2 tournaments, and continue making excuses of "giving it more time" - the reality is that SC2 is lagging in korea and among the foreign community it has been unable to generate any kind of excitement to people other than SC2 players. If the current state of SC2 is success to members of that community, nobody from the BW side is trying to burst your bubbles. What makes people here angry is that people are taking a game that they see as inferior and making stupid comments like "I wish jaedong would switch over" or "BW is dead". The biggest problem with SC2 is that it is a terrible spectator sport. It's intense for the professionals who play it and the amateurs who watch it - and thats where it ends. If SC2 wanted to get on the scale of BW (televised games, draft system, centralized oversight, etc) it would need a total overhaul of the game and that isn't going to happen with time or expansions. I see people saying "I've never even played SC2 but I love watching it" all the time. It might not be as big in the west as BW is / was in Korea, but it's still by far the most successful esport in the west, ever. Here in Sweden we've had our biggest tabloid put their own SC2 stream right on their front page and Dreamhack held their last finals in damn ice hockey arena. No, not really. I'm not sure but aren't there a lot more tournaments, cups and prizemoney in SC2 than LoL? Just because it has a bigger playerbase/viewerbase at the moment doesn't make it a more successful ESPORT or even close. I could be wrong though since I don't follow LoL. It is sad that BW is dying but that's one of the problems with ESPORTS, that games don't last. The original ESPORTS like BW, Quake and CS are dying and the new games that are there to replace them are not nearly as good. But SC2 is still better than most if not all of them.
Was reading about the quake scene and stumble upon this guy comment
By Trance
I wouldn't say so. All of this is basically just a life-line until the next Quake pops out (it better pop out!). It's just up to us to make sure that said life-line never reaches a critical point, beyond salvation. The past few months surely have helped that a lot, but I'm not fooled that QL will somehow turn around and boast some amazing new numbers. In the end most of us support the game and the community because we love it and have been around it for quite some years. A quaker simply does not die, he can be dormant for a while but give him the slightest proper reason to touch it again and he'll take the call in a heart beat.
It still is a niche game and not very friendly and forgiving to the newcomer. In this age of retarded console-ported shooters, where kids are used to having aim-helpers, truck sized crosshairs and no thinking whatsoever, quake doesn't exactly fit the profile.
Still, quake is one of the greatest games to spectate (especially on the higher level), even as a new comer and that appeal is something that many people from other big gaming communities have never really paid attention to. I consider this to be one of the key factors in keeping Quake's life-line at a decent level, and that's what we're aiming for at TheGDStudio with all the learn 2 play series and mixed game arenas we run. When we were thinking about the games and shows to run, Quake was among the first picks, if not even the first, not only because we all love it and have quite the background on it but because we felt other gamers needed to see the beauty of this game and hopefully come back for more, or even get involved with it a bit. We could have picked the easy way and just jump onto the LoL bandwagon instead of having Quake on our shows, but then I would have had to set the studio on fire and kill 2GD in his sleep. Nobody would have liked that.
Ok enough rambling, 6 AM now, I'd better fuck off.
TL:DR: quake will simply never die as long as there is the slightest chance of a new release, it's up to all of us to promote and keep it alive between episodes as best as we can. I do my part. Do you?
Respect for the man still believing in the quake brand . I don't have to go far to see players talking about how easy other games are compared to the games that were release back than . I think simplicity is underrated now days and it is pretty prevalent in every games that actually being release for gamers these days.
Also counter strike scene may also be reviving it's scene with cs go as I still see my old idol K-Sharp still kicking ass in counter strike .
This is one of several areas where I feel like Valve and Hidden Path are stuck in between a rock and a hard place. Change too much and upset your current community or do nothing and risk frustrating potential new players with older game mechanics.
[...]
This last one is tricky to put into words, but anyone who has spent a fair amount of time playing Counter-strike will know what I’m talking about when I describe it. Counter-Strike isn’t a game about hiding in bushes, extreme long distance fights, severe elevation differences, or gigantic maps. Maps in Counter-Strike are typically fairly small and don’t involve 500 hiding spots and 4000 angles to check when you come around a corner. Instead, lots of close quarters and straight up fighting. You know where you are going, you know where the enemy is going to be, and you know your objective. It comes down to you against the other team in a battle of aim and skill.
CS has more in common with a pure deathmatch game (Quake) than it has with any modern tactical shooter. Guns have a consistent spray pattern and are very accurate with short burst fire. Pistols are fairly accurate on the move and sniper scopes are completely steady. A clean 1 tap AK47 headshot from long range is one of the most satisfying things in the world because you know it was your skill and control with your mouse that got you the frag. To me this is the heart of Counter-Strike and by far the most important element in keeping any sequel true to the original.
http://counterstrikego.com/2011/08/cs-1-6-legend-ksharp-discusses-csgo/
Old e-sports man I don't see it dying unless the fan gives it up themselves.
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lol, you're also funny
I am sure i was longer or at least as long in SC1 as you. I was not in the Proscehne from the Beginning i admit (i was 6!!) but i bought the game in the year of it´s release and played ever since.
The fact that BW is such a legendary game makes this pretty much a nonissue. A lot of my friends got BW at release. That doesn't mean that they're hardcore fans. You can't assume length equates to actually being a longtime fan.
For example, I can just point to the fact that I joined in 2008 and say "since you joined post-SC2 in 2010" that makes me objectively a more awesome veteran, which I know is untrue. There are plenty of people who joined after me (like Konadora) who are obviously more respectable members of the community than I am.
There are so many SC2 players that are so ignorant
Argument versus the fans, not the game. And it's pretty much undeniable. Half of the posts in here are ignorant SC2 players who have done nothing but say "'Bisu, Jaedong, Flash' will come? Yay!"
You also imply that SC2 currently sucks dick with this "give it time" proposal.
Wasn't me that implied it. You did, lol
Like I said, fuck this expanding e-sports and expanding Starcraft 2 bullshit.
E-sports is retarded (for a more logical breakdown, see Chef's post. I agree with everything there), and people who come in here and use expanding SC2 as an argument don't know what they're talking about. This isn't a bash SC2 argument either. It's saying that the people who come here and say "Oh, but it'll promote SC2" as if it's a heavenly argument are ignorant and ill welcome. All they do is provoke bad feelings about BW players who don't want to see a good game go.
You're clearly not good at finding quotes.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. You're funny.
It's funny because it's true. SC2 isn't the "greatest game of all time". Far from it.
I read the whole initial Thread (which got closed and reopened as that one)
And there was a ton of BW fans bashing SC2 before even 1 SC2 fan posted a comment which was on the likes of "I feel sorry for the BW fans but i am excited for SC2"
so read your f-ing Thread before posting shit like that.
This is a forum filled with BW people who have been frustrated that all people do is talk about SC2. Give us a break and stop acting all high and mighty.
ANd now stop being so buthurt, its not like SC2 Fans are happy about you loosing your BW, we are EXCITED about possible getting the players we once cheered for in BW to SC2 without meaning no harm to BW.
So what you're saying is....you're acting ignorant to the fact that BW players coming over and helping your bad game is ruining the BW scene, and instead just acts excited about it? Gotcha.
Everything you've just said is pretty much another example of an ignorant poster who comes in, doesn't really understand how we feel about all this news, and just shits on everyone without realizing it.
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On April 17 2012 01:28 gCgCrypto wrote:@Zergneedsfood Oh great, because i mentioned the 3 currently most important BW players and did not mention all the others i never was a BW fan? Pathetic ... I am sure i was longer or at least as long in SC1 as you. I was not in the Proscehne from the Beginning i admit (i was 6!!) but i bought the game in the year of it´s release and played ever since. And how is it about not bashing SC2? Show nested quote +You also imply that SC2 currently sucks dick with this "give it time" proposal. Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote:
I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. You're funny. Show nested quote +Like I said, fuck this expanding e-sports and expanding Starcraft 2 bullshit. ----------------------- Show nested quote +You do know that it was SC2 fans who came in and posted dumb provocative shit? And no you are totally wrong on that one ... I read the whole initial Thread (which got closed and reopened as that one) And there was a ton of BW fans bashing SC2 before even 1 SC2 fan posted a comment which was on the likes of "I feel sorry for the BW fans but i am excited for SC2" so read your f-ing Thread before posting shit like that. ANd now stop being so buthurt, its not like SC2 Fans are happy about you loosing your BW, we are EXCITED about possible getting the players we once cheered for in BW to SC2 without meaning no harm to BW.
I support this.
While it is sad that we can't peacefully co-exist, I'm looking forward to learning more about the BW scene by following this mixed tournament.
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On April 17 2012 01:00 jtp118 wrote:
to all of the old BW fans complaining about the end of BW ... my initial interest in esports was Halo, and Halo:CE (i.e., Halo 1) is thought of much as BW is thought of among Starcraft fans. the pinnacle of the series, the best console FPS of all time, etc.
do you want to know how much time Halo:CE had in the pro tournament scene? barely more than two years. the fact that you've had pro BW for 11 EFFING YEARS and are complaining about it finally going away; stop acting so entitled. you are incredibly, incredibly lucky that BW was so popular in South Korea for so long
hahahahahahahhaha!
I find this post amusing.
Halo's lolesport scene made it only up to 2 years because it's full of casuals, just like what SC2 is today. We act entitled not because we actually are but because we know that 11 FUCKING YEARS is just too short for BW and it's Proscene. Also, I think I can speak for every BW fan that BW was bound to die maybe because of fans stopped following the scene and we can accept that it's gonna be the fate of our beloved game but not because of poor management by kespa, and/or pushing SC2 into the fray, leaving the BW dead.
On April 17 2012 01:27 Kevan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 00:13 Kiett wrote:On April 17 2012 00:07 hugman wrote:On April 16 2012 23:45 white_horse wrote:On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote:
I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it. Saying that SC2 "needs more time" is a euphemism for "this game isn't as good as it should have been". If SC2 isn't exciting for non-gamers now, what makes you think that it's going to be exciting for them later? BW generated excitement and mainstream popularity in korea before it became "developed" - because it was a great spectator sport. BW didn't take 12 years to become as exciting as it is now; it was just as exciting 12 years ago. SC2 fans apparantly do not know this. In terms of raw popularity and mainstream interest among a populace, BW is king. You can cite total cash pools, the number of SC2 tournaments, and continue making excuses of "giving it more time" - the reality is that SC2 is lagging in korea and among the foreign community it has been unable to generate any kind of excitement to people other than SC2 players. If the current state of SC2 is success to members of that community, nobody from the BW side is trying to burst your bubbles. What makes people here angry is that people are taking a game that they see as inferior and making stupid comments like "I wish jaedong would switch over" or "BW is dead". The biggest problem with SC2 is that it is a terrible spectator sport. It's intense for the professionals who play it and the amateurs who watch it - and thats where it ends. If SC2 wanted to get on the scale of BW (televised games, draft system, centralized oversight, etc) it would need a total overhaul of the game and that isn't going to happen with time or expansions. I see people saying "I've never even played SC2 but I love watching it" all the time. It might not be as big in the west as BW is / was in Korea, but it's still by far the most successful esport in the west, ever. Here in Sweden we've had our biggest tabloid put their own SC2 stream right on their front page and Dreamhack held their last finals in damn ice hockey arena. No, not really. I'm not sure but aren't there a lot more tournaments, cups and prizemoney in SC2 than LoL? Just because it has a bigger playerbase/viewerbase at the moment doesn't make it a more successful ESPORT or even close. I could be wrong though since I don't follow LoL. It is sad that BW is dying but that's one of the problems with ESPORTS, that games don't last. The original ESPORTS like BW, Quake and CS are dying and the new games that are there to replace them are not nearly as good. But SC2 is still better than most if not all of them.
Please enlighten us on how SC2 is better as a spectator sport than BW, Quake, and CS? (notice I am not using that demented word 'Esport')
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I love starcraft 2, I've played thousands of SC2 games in the past 2 years and I hope that SC2 continutes to grow and succeed. But it is NOT a better game than broodwar, and it will be a sad day indeed if there ever comes a time when proleague or OSL is played with SC2 instead of BW
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With BW, I think the possibility of a video game being taken seriously as a sport dies. For a long time I could argue that BW professionals were in fact athletes (without even devaluing it by calling them 'cyber-athletes'). Playing ten hours a day, reasonably stable expectations of the scene, big stages and regular audiences who were willing to pass up newer graphics for the possibility of a video game being a sport. Now, all we have is ESPORTS: advertisements for games that will last only as long as the developers produce content for them. In four more years when hopefully the last SC2 expansion has been out for two years, a new game with better graphics will be out and "ESPORTS" fans will move on to that game. If the big argument for new players is that BW has ugly graphics, think how ugly SC2 is gonna look compared to what we can make in 2016! I mean, it doesn't even have good aesthetic direction right now, it just has polygons and lighting effects. The whole game looks dark and gross, WC4 will easily be better than that. Or maybe it won't even be a Blizzard game, considering how much they've lost themselves in the corporate superstructure. Look forward to a lot of triple A titles with no heart from Blizz.
I don't really take video games seriously. I took BW seriously because to me it was an actual sport, about dedication to the game and excitement within the game. The surrounding cameras, money and tournaments weren't really what made it a sport, they were symptoms of it being a sport. What made it a sport were the people who played it intensely without even needing that monetary incentive. The people who were willing to live off ramen in a tiny apartment with eight other guys because they loved the game and people loved watching them play. A huge difference between them and the people who are pretty good at games in general and want a little extra money in their spare time for playing online tournies, or something to do for a year while they're at a transition stage in the life, planning their career or next level education simultaneously. Why should I want to watch people like that play? I'm not a kid anymore, it doesn't amaze me that there are a lot of people doing a thing or make me think I should be a part of it. I don't fantasize about crowd surfing or being in a huge audience. There has to be an actual value within the activity itself that goes beyond the many superficial tiers of novelty and socializing and community.
I had to quote this because it's just a really really good post that's probably gonna get ignored because it's in spoilers.
Also do you seriously want to compare your tesl on some random tv channel to this ? This first TV game i liked to was played during Patch 1.06 and hosted by Tooniverse. ( link : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=262530 ) I have seen SC2 games on tv in france too, except it's on some random crappy tv channel that you have to pay extra to watch, and this is in 2012 when you have streams and WEBTVs and information goes much faster than twenty years ago, are you seriously trying to imply that SC2 will ever be half as popular as BW ( which at some point was bigger than baseball ) ?
When a foreign tv channel hosts a tournament like onegamenet does then we can compare BW and SC2 ( while keeping in mind that BW didn't have any of what we currently have, streams, a past history of people playing video games for money (( quake cs 1.6 brood war , ever heard of the cpl for instance ? )), wayyyy less stereotypes about gamers and gaming in general etc etc ... ).
Also this " give it time " argument and " SC2 didn't have much time to develop " needs to die. SC2 progamers don't have 1 year of experience, they have the one year of starcraft 2 plus 13 years of brood war plus the 6 of warcraft 3. SC2 progamers didn't have to come up with things like " macro ", the concept was already there in the first place, and the mechanical requirement to macro are stupidly low in this game. The tournament organizers didn't have 1 years of esports, they had this, plus the experiences of the failures and success of some other events such as the CPL. They have been in the buisness since 2000, they know how to promote a game, they know how to host a proper tournament. The game in itself doesn't " need more time " because time won't magically fix anything at all. Also would people stop it with this claim that vanilla SC was absolutly god aweful and BW somehow fixed everything and made it a wonderful game ?
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SC Vanilla was legit man.
When Tassadar crashed into the Overmind......man that was better than all of SC2's campaign.
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On April 17 2012 01:13 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 22:52 gCgCrypto wrote:
C´Mon Ppl. Why all the hate for sc2? do you think you are the only ones who liked BW? I played BW since i was 6 Years old as it got released! It has been part of my Life for 11 Years and i still play it although i play SC2 mainly.
I and most other SC2 Players who ever tried BW defend it and allways speak of it in the highest honor.
I personally think SC2 is not living up to BW currently and it is a stupid misstake by Blizzard to not use thair knowledge and success of BW to make SC2 a better game faster but SC2 is becoming better then BW did after it got released. It is improving at a way faster Rate!
And everything spoilerd about HotS actually gives me hope in addition to the whole 6M1HYG movement.
To why we SC2 players want the SC:BW pros to play SC2?
We also once played BW or watched it (or atleast heared of the A pros)
And it is stupid to beleve BW will stay forever.
Instead of crying after BW i decided to swich with SC2 release and help SC2 get better as good as a single community member can!
I think that the BW pros might guide SC2 into the right direction and i am certain that SC2 could live up to BW if Blizzard is willing to listen to us community and take the right steppes (6M1HYG for example)
ANd now shut the fight, burry SC:BW in honor together with us SC2 players who also knew BW
and welcome our both favorite players to SC2, give them your support and give SC2 another Chance.
If you don´t like it how it is FIGHT TO MAKE IT BETTER! because IT WILL REPLACE BW, OR GET REPLACED BY LOL!
RIP BW and thank you for my awesome childhood, and please Jeadong, Flash and Bisu, join us in SC2 and make it great! because it was never Blizzard who made SC:BW what it is now, it was them and you BW fans, now we need to do the same for SC2!
Crypto I like how you only mention Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, as if those are the only pros you actually know. lol There are so many SC2 players that are so ignorant of BW it's not even funny. All I can remember now, is that one episode of State of the Game, where Day[9] and Nony and a bunch of other BW veterans just went on for an thirty minutes (or even more) about how great BW. There was no other time where someone was that enthusiastic about SC2. There's a total different in magnitude and emotion. You also imply that SC2 currently sucks dick with this "give it time" proposal. Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote:
I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. You're funny. Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 00:22 Otolia wrote:
I love reading these threads where people thrash-talk SC2 like there is no tomorrow. You know what guys ? Stay with good ol' BW, SC2 doesn't want people who confound elitism with contempt.
The rest who truly wishes to share their passion to newcomers are always welcome but alas I think they already have and the rest of you are becoming more and more bitter. Nobody asks you to love SC 2 as much as the SC2 fans do, just to try to make it better with your previous knowledge. Why is that so hard ?! You do know that it was SC2 fans who came in and posted dumb provocative shit? Also, why is it so hard to watch as our beloved progamers go to an inferior game? Is that anything but a rhetorical question? Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 01:09 gCgCrypto wrote:
I am not arguing against BW being the better game, what i am arguing for is that SC2 does not have to stay like it is now, i am hoping and beleving that it can be pushed to be a worthy replacement for BW but it wont get there by doing nothing and it wont get there by hardcore BW fans turning thair back on SC2 and kicking it in the face.
The shit SC2 gets from BW makes the newer SC2 fans hate BW and say things like SC2 being better then BW and most importantly oposing all proposals by the community which would make the game better but more like SC:BW.
I would love SC2 to be a better grafik BW but that aint happening. How are we kicking it in the face? We just don't want BW to go. Like I said, fuck this expanding e-sports and expanding Starcraft 2 bullshit. We don't bash SC2 unless we're warranted by dumb people who come in here and start flaming things up. Half the time we're really open to people who want to give BW a try instead of coming in here and saying one of the following: 1. Bisu, Jaedong, Flash, do what you did with BW in SC2! It'll be great! 2. This is about e-sports guys. 3. BW was gonna die anyway. I loved it, because I know Boxer, Flash, Bisu, and Jaedong, so let's all become one and trek into the unknown future. Do not fret BW fans, though BW is lying limp with a spear impaled in its forehead, I am sure that SC2 will offer you all the comfort in the world. Yeah, fuck that shit.
elitist assholes like you are killing ESPORTS imoimo. besides sc2 is so much better than bw anyway it has shiny graphics and rocks and other amazing shit. do you have rocks in bw? yeah i didn't think so, stop being mad cuz your game sux kthx
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On April 17 2012 01:50 ZoW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 01:13 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 16 2012 22:52 gCgCrypto wrote:
C´Mon Ppl. Why all the hate for sc2? do you think you are the only ones who liked BW? I played BW since i was 6 Years old as it got released! It has been part of my Life for 11 Years and i still play it although i play SC2 mainly.
I and most other SC2 Players who ever tried BW defend it and allways speak of it in the highest honor.
I personally think SC2 is not living up to BW currently and it is a stupid misstake by Blizzard to not use thair knowledge and success of BW to make SC2 a better game faster but SC2 is becoming better then BW did after it got released. It is improving at a way faster Rate!
And everything spoilerd about HotS actually gives me hope in addition to the whole 6M1HYG movement.
To why we SC2 players want the SC:BW pros to play SC2?
We also once played BW or watched it (or atleast heared of the A pros)
And it is stupid to beleve BW will stay forever.
Instead of crying after BW i decided to swich with SC2 release and help SC2 get better as good as a single community member can!
I think that the BW pros might guide SC2 into the right direction and i am certain that SC2 could live up to BW if Blizzard is willing to listen to us community and take the right steppes (6M1HYG for example)
ANd now shut the fight, burry SC:BW in honor together with us SC2 players who also knew BW
and welcome our both favorite players to SC2, give them your support and give SC2 another Chance.
If you don´t like it how it is FIGHT TO MAKE IT BETTER! because IT WILL REPLACE BW, OR GET REPLACED BY LOL!
RIP BW and thank you for my awesome childhood, and please Jeadong, Flash and Bisu, join us in SC2 and make it great! because it was never Blizzard who made SC:BW what it is now, it was them and you BW fans, now we need to do the same for SC2!
Crypto I like how you only mention Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, as if those are the only pros you actually know. lol There are so many SC2 players that are so ignorant of BW it's not even funny. All I can remember now, is that one episode of State of the Game, where Day[9] and Nony and a bunch of other BW veterans just went on for an thirty minutes (or even more) about how great BW. There was no other time where someone was that enthusiastic about SC2. There's a total different in magnitude and emotion. You also imply that SC2 currently sucks dick with this "give it time" proposal. On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote:
I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. You're funny. On April 17 2012 00:22 Otolia wrote:
I love reading these threads where people thrash-talk SC2 like there is no tomorrow. You know what guys ? Stay with good ol' BW, SC2 doesn't want people who confound elitism with contempt.
The rest who truly wishes to share their passion to newcomers are always welcome but alas I think they already have and the rest of you are becoming more and more bitter. Nobody asks you to love SC 2 as much as the SC2 fans do, just to try to make it better with your previous knowledge. Why is that so hard ?! You do know that it was SC2 fans who came in and posted dumb provocative shit? Also, why is it so hard to watch as our beloved progamers go to an inferior game? Is that anything but a rhetorical question? On April 17 2012 01:09 gCgCrypto wrote:
I am not arguing against BW being the better game, what i am arguing for is that SC2 does not have to stay like it is now, i am hoping and beleving that it can be pushed to be a worthy replacement for BW but it wont get there by doing nothing and it wont get there by hardcore BW fans turning thair back on SC2 and kicking it in the face.
The shit SC2 gets from BW makes the newer SC2 fans hate BW and say things like SC2 being better then BW and most importantly oposing all proposals by the community which would make the game better but more like SC:BW.
I would love SC2 to be a better grafik BW but that aint happening. How are we kicking it in the face? We just don't want BW to go. Like I said, fuck this expanding e-sports and expanding Starcraft 2 bullshit. We don't bash SC2 unless we're warranted by dumb people who come in here and start flaming things up. Half the time we're really open to people who want to give BW a try instead of coming in here and saying one of the following: 1. Bisu, Jaedong, Flash, do what you did with BW in SC2! It'll be great! 2. This is about e-sports guys. 3. BW was gonna die anyway. I loved it, because I know Boxer, Flash, Bisu, and Jaedong, so let's all become one and trek into the unknown future. Do not fret BW fans, though BW is lying limp with a spear impaled in its forehead, I am sure that SC2 will offer you all the comfort in the world. Yeah, fuck that shit. elitist assholes like you are killing ESPORTS imoimo. besides sc2 is so much better than bw anyway it has shiny graphics and rocks and other amazing shit. do you have rocks in bw? yeah i didn't think so, stop being mad cuz your game sux ktnx
Fuck you're right.
I also think we need to give e-sports more consideration. I think we've been too quick to judge, and I really think that we need to give SC2 some time to really show its true potential. Players like Idra and Stephano are really good examples of players who can pioneer new strategies in the game.
Fantasy and Flash will be great Protoss bonjwas in SC2. I just know it.
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On April 17 2012 01:50 Zergneedsfood wrote:
SC Vanilla was legit man.
When Tassadar crashed into the Overmind......man that was better than all of SC2's campaign.
Well that's fair. I don't think anybody here is gonna argue that. Fuck, now you got me all bummed out thinking about how SC2's campaign has been so bad. Hopefully HOTS turns it around but I'm skeptical at best.
Edit: and ZoW is clearly trolling
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Show nested quote +You also imply that SC2 currently sucks dick with this "give it time" proposal. Wasn't me that implied it. You did, lol
This was not even my text you quoted there genius ...
But whatever this does not lead to enything. I am sorry for you and all other BW fans for loosing your passion but that is no reason to be offensive against others.
We are not why BW is going down, The scehne started dying a while ago, slowly but surly, like the body of Hohenheim of Light.
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On April 17 2012 01:52 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 01:50 Zergneedsfood wrote:
SC Vanilla was legit man.
When Tassadar crashed into the Overmind......man that was better than all of SC2's campaign. Well that's fair. I don't think anybody here is gonna argue that. Fuck, now you got me all bummed out thinking about how SC2's campaign has been so bad. Hopefully HOTS turns it around but I'm skeptical at best. Edit: and ZoW is clearly trolling
Are you kidding? ZoW's been the only SC2 fan with a coherent argument in this entire thread. I actually know ZoW, and despite his semi-nonsensical post, he's the only fan that's been able to change my mind on SC2 related subjects.
+ Show Spoiler +That hurts like a bitch doesn't it ZoW? To get called an SC2 fan? Oh God my chest hurts just from typing that.
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On April 17 2012 01:52 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 01:50 Zergneedsfood wrote:
SC Vanilla was legit man.
When Tassadar crashed into the Overmind......man that was better than all of SC2's campaign. Well that's fair. I don't think anybody here is gonna argue that. Fuck, now you got me all bummed out thinking about how SC2's campaign has been so bad. Hopefully HOTS turns it around but I'm skeptical at best. Edit: and ZoW is clearly trolling
TBH, I liked the level design and all the cool upgrades you could buy in the SC2 campaign even though the story sucked.
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I'm not sure why I keep coming back to read this thread, the arguments are so pointless and rehashed from both sides.
a tip to pure sc2 fans just stay away from this forum because you're not going to change anyone's mind and all you're doing is stirring up shit.
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On April 17 2012 01:54 gCgCrypto wrote:Show nested quote +You also imply that SC2 currently sucks dick with this "give it time" proposal. Wasn't me that implied it. You did, lol This was not even my text you quoted there genius ... But whatever this does not lead to enything. I am sorry for you and all other BW fans for loosing your passion but that is no reason to be offensive against others. We are not why BW is going down, The scehne started dying a while ago, slowly but surly, like the body of Hohenheim of Light.
I quoted what I had said to say that all of your "we need Flash/Bisu/Jaedong" & "give it time" arguments just imply that SC2 currently sucks dick.
What? SC2 is exactly the reason why BW has been declining. Even though Savior had that massive scandal, BW has still had really strong periods until SC2 started sucking shit up. It's not a coincidence that since SC2's release, we've lost teams, channels, casters.
We're not being offensive unless people are acting ignorant. You guys have been acting ignorant, and therefore we find it right to say that you guys don't know what the hell you're talking about.
On April 17 2012 01:56 Dodgin wrote:
I'm not sure why I keep coming back to read this thread, the arguments are so pointless and rehashed from both sides.
a tip to pure sc2 fans just stay away from this forum because you're not going to change anyone's mind and all you're doing is stirring up shit.
Well, the point of this thread was to never change anyone's minds. It was just about transitions in the game and it was a place for us to say "fuck this sucks".
I have said this a lot of times, but honestly....just let us mourn in peace without coming in and saying "guys, it's okay. Let's be excited for SC2!" I don't understand why people would ever think that it's not stirring up a shitstorm by saying that.
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The reason why most of you don't like sc2 is mainly the way battle.net is designed. The current design is just brutal for casual players. Even though BW is mechanically harder than sc2, it is far more welcoming than sc2 is. sc2 just makes people ragequit forever, not everyone has the mentality of a progamer.
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Haha, ZNF on a roll, on a roll.
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EPT
