Really sad news, but a little exciting at the same time.
What stings the most is the alternating PL sets. If this is the last BW PL or OSL, I'd love to see the best possible games to remember them by. A mediocre BW set followed by a mediocre SC2 set would only tarnish my memory of it.
Still, I'll keep hope alive that, if things play out as they appear to be doing, SC2 flourishes and BW experiences some sort of miraculous renaissance down the line and both games can enjoy mutual success in the future. Idealistic? Sure, but it's something nice to hope for.
C´Mon Ppl. Why all the hate for sc2? do you think you are the only ones who liked BW? I played BW since i was 6 Years old as it got released! It has been part of my Life for 11 Years and i still play it although i play SC2 mainly. I and most other SC2 Players who ever tried BW defend it and allways speak of it in the highest honor.
I personally think SC2 is not living up to BW currently and it is a stupid misstake by Blizzard to not use thair knowledge and success of BW to make SC2 a better game faster but SC2 is becoming better then BW did after it got released. It is improving at a way faster Rate!
And everything spoilerd about HotS actually gives me hope in addition to the whole 6M1HYG movement.
To why we SC2 players want the SC:BW pros to play SC2? We also once played BW or watched it (or atleast heared of the A pros) And it is stupid to beleve BW will stay forever. Instead of crying after BW i decided to swich with SC2 release and help SC2 get better as good as a single community member can! I think that the BW pros might guide SC2 into the right direction and i am certain that SC2 could live up to BW if Blizzard is willing to listen to us community and take the right steppes (6M1HYG for example)
ANd now shut the fight, burry SC:BW in honor together with us SC2 players who also knew BW and welcome our both favorite players to SC2, give them your support and give SC2 another Chance.
If you don´t like it how it is FIGHT TO MAKE IT BETTER! because IT WILL REPLACE BW, OR GET REPLACED BY LOL!
RIP BW and thank you for my awesome childhood, and please Jeadong, Flash and Bisu, join us in SC2 and make it great! because it was never Blizzard who made SC:BW what it is now, it was them and you BW fans, now we need to do the same for SC2!
On April 16 2012 22:42 xBillehx wrote: Since the other thread was closed, could we maybe have the OP updated so people don't have to wade through 90 pages of "my game is better than your game" arguments to find the interviews and translations of the most recent articles?
For instance, the Team 8 coach's interview here, (Summarized by rotinegg here) The Fomos and DES/MBCplus mirror, (Summarized by white_horse here and here) and the newest article the now closed thread was based on here.
I agree this would be a good addition to this OP; quoting it so that it doesn't get buried at end of a page.
anyways, random tidbit: I can't be the only person who saw 2pac resurrected... on sidebar and thought "nah, 2 fact doesn't need to be resurrected....people still use it!". ;_;
This sucks... I guess we will not se any of the current sc2 teams/best sc2 players being in this Proleague since they got almost no chance of takeing just one game in sc1 and I dont se the good sc1 players changeing teams.
I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it.
On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote: I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it.
Please, don't write such shallow posts. You are fueling the storm.
On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote: I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it.
Saying that SC2 "needs more time" is a euphemism for "this game isn't as good as it should have been". If SC2 isn't exciting for non-gamers now, what makes you think that it's going to be exciting for them later? BW generated excitement and mainstream popularity in korea before it became "developed" - because it was a great spectator sport. BW didn't take 12 years to become as exciting as it is now; it was just as exciting 12 years ago. SC2 fans apparantly do not know this. In terms of raw popularity and mainstream interest among a populace, BW is king. You can cite total cash pools, the number of SC2 tournaments, and continue making excuses of "giving it more time" - the reality is that SC2 is lagging in korea and among the foreign community it has been unable to generate any kind of excitement to people other than SC2 players. If the current state of SC2 is success to members of that community, nobody from the BW side is trying to burst your bubbles. What makes people here angry is that people are taking a game that they see as inferior and making stupid comments like "I wish jaedong would switch over" or "BW is dead".
The biggest problem with SC2 is that it is a terrible spectator sport. It's intense for the professionals who play it and the amateurs who watch it - and thats where it ends. If SC2 wanted to get on the scale of BW (televised games, draft system, centralized oversight, etc) it would need a total overhaul of the game and that isn't going to happen with time or expansions.
On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote: I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it.
Saying that SC2 "needs more time" is a euphemism for "this game isn't as good as it should have been". If SC2 isn't exciting for non-gamers now, what makes you think that it's going to be exciting for them later? BW generated excitement and mainstream popularity in korea before it became "developed" - because it was a great spectator sport. BW didn't take 12 years to become as exciting as it is now; it was just as exciting 12 years ago. SC2 fans apparantly do not know this. In terms of raw popularity and mainstream interest among a populace, BW is king. You can cite total cash pools, the number of SC2 tournaments, and continue making excuses of "giving it more time" - the reality is that SC2 is lagging in korea and among the foreign community it has been unable to generate any kind of excitement to people other than SC2 players. If the current state of SC2 is success to members of that community, nobody from the BW side is trying to burst your bubbles. What makes people here angry is that people are taking a game that they see as inferior and making stupid comments like "I wish jaedong would switch over" or "BW is dead".
The biggest problem with SC2 is that it is a terrible spectator sport. It's intense for the professionals who play it and the amateurs who watch it - and thats where it ends. If SC2 wanted to get on the scale of BW (televised games, draft system, centralized oversight, etc) it would need a total overhaul of the game and that isn't going to happen with time or expansions.
Tell me all about the specator Sport Starcraft was 2 years after Release. Yes it sucks that Blizzard basicly cut all they learned from BW just to not make a "BW with better grafix" as so meny people were afraid of (why would you be afraid of that to begin with -.-, this would have been great) But they and teh community are at least using what they learned to make it progress fast, way faster then Starcraft did after release in all parts (Gameplay, Balance, Spectator stuff etc)
I hate all those people trying to argue against SC2 by saying it should not be given as mutch time as SC1 was because that is what supports thair statement...
I love BW i love SC2 and if you dont like one or both of these games i´m cool with that. Is that so difficoult to understand that we SC2 players would love to have the SC1 Players play for our game without meaning eny offense to the SC1 fans?
I love BW i love SC2 and if you dont like one or both of these games i´m cool with that. Is that so difficoult to understand that we SC2 players would love to have the SC1 Players play for our game without meaning eny offense to the SC1 fans?
They'd love when it suits them, and dismiss them when it suits them. SC2 would be better off with finding its own young prodigies than with tbls, because it is what it will need eventually anyway.
On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote: I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it.
Saying that SC2 "needs more time" is a euphemism for "this game isn't as good as it should have been". If SC2 isn't exciting for non-gamers now, what makes you think that it's going to be exciting for them later? BW generated excitement and mainstream popularity in korea before it became "developed" - because it was a great spectator sport. BW didn't take 12 years to become as exciting as it is now; it was just as exciting 12 years ago. SC2 fans apparantly do not know this. In terms of raw popularity and mainstream interest among a populace, BW is king. You can cite total cash pools, the number of SC2 tournaments, and continue making excuses of "giving it more time" - the reality is that SC2 is lagging in korea and among the foreign community it has been unable to generate any kind of excitement to people other than SC2 players. If the current state of SC2 is success to members of that community, nobody from the BW side is trying to burst your bubbles. What makes people here angry is that people are taking a game that they see as inferior and making stupid comments like "I wish jaedong would switch over" or "BW is dead".
The biggest problem with SC2 is that it is a terrible spectator sport. It's intense for the professionals who play it and the amateurs who watch it - and thats where it ends. If SC2 wanted to get on the scale of BW (televised games, draft system, centralized oversight, etc) it would need a total overhaul of the game and that isn't going to happen with time or expansions.
I see people saying "I've never even played SC2 but I love watching it" all the time. It might not be as big in the west as BW is / was in Korea, but it's still by far the most successful esport in the west, ever. Here in Sweden we've had our biggest tabloid put their own SC2 stream right on their front page and Dreamhack held their last finals in damn ice hockey arena.
On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote: I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it.
Saying that SC2 "needs more time" is a euphemism for "this game isn't as good as it should have been". If SC2 isn't exciting for non-gamers now, what makes you think that it's going to be exciting for them later? BW generated excitement and mainstream popularity in korea before it became "developed" - because it was a great spectator sport. BW didn't take 12 years to become as exciting as it is now; it was just as exciting 12 years ago. SC2 fans apparantly do not know this. In terms of raw popularity and mainstream interest among a populace, BW is king. You can cite total cash pools, the number of SC2 tournaments, and continue making excuses of "giving it more time" - the reality is that SC2 is lagging in korea and among the foreign community it has been unable to generate any kind of excitement to people other than SC2 players. If the current state of SC2 is success to members of that community, nobody from the BW side is trying to burst your bubbles. What makes people here angry is that people are taking a game that they see as inferior and making stupid comments like "I wish jaedong would switch over" or "BW is dead".
The biggest problem with SC2 is that it is a terrible spectator sport. It's intense for the professionals who play it and the amateurs who watch it - and thats where it ends. If SC2 wanted to get on the scale of BW (televised games, draft system, centralized oversight, etc) it would need a total overhaul of the game and that isn't going to happen with time or expansions.
Tell me all about the specator Sport Starcraft was 2 years after Release. Yes it sucks that Blizzard basicly cut all they learned from BW just to not make a "BW with better grafix" as so meny people were afraid of (why would you be afraid of that to begin with -.-, this would have been great) But they and teh community are at least using what they learned to make it progress fast, way faster then Starcraft did after release in all parts (Gameplay, Balance, Spectator stuff etc)
I hate all those people trying to argue against SC2 by saying it should not be given as mutch time as SC1 was because that is what supports thair statement...
I love BW i love SC2 and if you dont like one or both of these games i´m cool with that. Is that so difficoult to understand that we SC2 players would love to have the SC1 Players play for our game without meaning eny offense to the SC1 fans?
Crypto
It's just that BW was made out of nothing, SC2 has 12 years of professional RTS development to be based on. Yet Blizzard decided to remove all the good aspects of BW and replace with inferior concepts.
On April 16 2012 23:04 NMxSardines wrote: I don't like how people just simply hate on the one of the best video games of all time, that is Starcraft 2, - there is simply no other multiplayer competitive game to come out in recent years that can measure up to it, in my opinion. People just simply say that Starcraft 2 is worse without stating why because of their obvious bias towards Brood War - without even giving Starcraft 2 some time to prove itself while Brood War has lasted through an expansion pack and a whole decade.
And yes, Brood War will always remain a novelty - there is NOTHING you can do about it and it is NOT Blizzard's fault. Starcraft 2 is a SEQUEL, deal with it.
Saying that SC2 "needs more time" is a euphemism for "this game isn't as good as it should have been". If SC2 isn't exciting for non-gamers now, what makes you think that it's going to be exciting for them later? BW generated excitement and mainstream popularity in korea before it became "developed" - because it was a great spectator sport. BW didn't take 12 years to become as exciting as it is now; it was just as exciting 12 years ago. SC2 fans apparantly do not know this. In terms of raw popularity and mainstream interest among a populace, BW is king. You can cite total cash pools, the number of SC2 tournaments, and continue making excuses of "giving it more time" - the reality is that SC2 is lagging in korea and among the foreign community it has been unable to generate any kind of excitement to people other than SC2 players. If the current state of SC2 is success to members of that community, nobody from the BW side is trying to burst your bubbles. What makes people here angry is that people are taking a game that they see as inferior and making stupid comments like "I wish jaedong would switch over" or "BW is dead".
The biggest problem with SC2 is that it is a terrible spectator sport. It's intense for the professionals who play it and the amateurs who watch it - and thats where it ends. If SC2 wanted to get on the scale of BW (televised games, draft system, centralized oversight, etc) it would need a total overhaul of the game and that isn't going to happen with time or expansions.
I see people saying "I've never even played SC2 but I love watching it" all the time. It might not be as big in the west as BW is / was in Korea, but it's still by far the most successful esport in the west, ever. Here in Sweden we've had our biggest tabloid put their own SC2 stream right on their front page and Dreamhack held their last finals in damn ice hockey arena.
I love BW i love SC2 and if you dont like one or both of these games i´m cool with that. Is that so difficoult to understand that we SC2 players would love to have the SC1 Players play for our game without meaning eny offense to the SC1 fans?
They'd love when it suits them, and dismiss them when it suits them. SC2 would be better off with finding its own young prodigies than with tbls, because it is what it will need eventually anyway.
Well there is the problem, SC2 is has some substantial flaws and so does not allow players to get this Bonjwa status so meny of us remember from the BW days and so we hope the existing Bonjwas could reach the status in SC2 and / or change our game so we can have our own Players with this status. A game without it´s Bonjwas is way less atractive as a spectator sport because Bonjwas create Storys to tell and drama to wittness.
(and to your first Quote of Jinro: I feel like most BW fans don´t realize it but a lot of SC2 fans would never argue about BW being the superior game, what pains us is that instead of helping SC2 get back up, meny BW fans rather like to kick SC2 in the face even more.)
Sorry ^^ thats a bad habit i got somewhere, it just happens all the time =S
Edit: and i totally agree with what you said about the 12 years of expirience but i think the major factor for this was all non BW players back then where yelling that it will suck and will just be "BW with better grafix"
I love reading these threads where people thrash-talk SC2 like there is no tomorrow. You know what guys ? Stay with good ol' BW, SC2 doesn't want people who confound elitism with contempt.
The rest who truly wishes to share their passion to newcomers are always welcome but alas I think they already have and the rest of you are becoming more and more bitter. Nobody asks you to love SC 2 as much as the SC2 fans do, just to try to make it better with your previous knowledge. Why is that so hard ?!
On April 16 2012 23:18 Shrewmy wrote: I feel that just having two separate leagues would be more effective. This is only going to divide the community even more.
The problem with the idea of 2 separate leagues is they just can't afford it. Running 2 leagues would have 2 sets of costs that together would be higher than just running one mixed league, and not only would they have to hope that one earns enough revenue to help support the other but the sponsors they've spoken to lately seem to only want to be involved in something that also brings in international viewership.
Despite no one wanting to sponsor BW anymore they've bled money to keep it alive for the past year or so. It seems the plan right now (disregarding how many of us feel about it) is to promote SC2 to the current BW fanbase and hope that the turnover rate + whatever they gain from SC2 (fan wise, international attention, and most importantly sponsorship wise) is enough to keep the player's careers safe. KeSPA seems confident they have what it takes to grow SC2 in Korea, and given they have the infrastructure (OGN being on TV and all) and the connections that GOM didn't necessarily have these past two years, they just might be able to do it. Besides, with KeSPA jumping in Blizzard has even more good minds to give feedback on how to provide a better gaming and spectating experience in the future SC2 expansions.
Simply put, BW isn't making enough revenue to sustain itself so they're trying to find a way to keep money flowing in and SC2 is one option that doesn't put a significant challenge on the current BW players. (Despite LoL's growth right now, going from a 1v1 format to a completely different genre where you only control one hero and have to work with a team is obviously more difficult than transitioning to a similar enough game set in the same universe with the same core gameplay values.) Maybe if, and this is a big IF, the international world's interest in BW is rekindled, they'd be able to go back to being able to sustain a BW league by itself, but until that day they just have to do something or risk putting many progamers out of a job.
EPT
