On April 07 2012 02:53 N.geNuity wrote: It's much easier to dodge storms when you can grab 30 units in 1 click. Now units do clumps up more in sc2, yada yada, but storms hitting without smart casting and players dodging storms well with like 30 hydralisks is more micro intensive. No matter what anyone tries to say otherwise.
When hitting storms is easier, dodging storms becomes harder. Also, unlimited unit selection is not a boon to storm-dodging, as it is much easier to spread your units when a drag-box over your army only selects a portion of that army (like in BW) as opposed to your entire army. That storm-dodge video is actually very impressive.
*facepalm*
In current BW ZvP, zergs have to control their hydralisks well so that not only they dodge the storms when they're casted, they have to make sure they pull away the right units before the hydralisks coming from the back actually block the hydralisks from running away from templar+goon+zeal army.
In SC2, you can easily pull back everything at once.
That way, instead of a handful of units not firing, none of them will!
A lot of SC2 pros actually have pretty horrible control, even little things like having medivacs in the same control group as the marines, so that when you stutterstep the marines, the medivacs dance around like morons instead of healing.
i think the point is that when you select the few you need to pull back you can with a single click get them out of harms way since the hydras behind them will part like the red sea
Oh. But that's not a factor in BW, because the hydras aren't clumping in that game.
Either way, I seem to have found myself defending SC2, and I don't actually want to, so I'm stepping out of this thread for a bit
eh, things do clump up all the time in bw too. Just not the fatal game changing effect as in sc2. to add a similar analogy:
say you see the defilers coming to your army to cast swarm and you need to unsiege your tanks and pull back your bio (maybe 30 marine/medic) or they die to the lurkers burrowing/get stuck in the swarm. Good luck with that shit. Or moving across a fucking bridge.
You gotta be active with your control all the time to prevent from getting into flankable spots/clumping up. Which is hard to even get your army to get into a good position in the first place.
sc2 limits some micro as well as your forced to control chunks of units. It's hard to split banelings for example because they clump up for the engine. So people just roll with it and whatever happens happens (or grab small "chunks"). Yeah it's good micro at times, but pales into comparison to what bw. It's not about the players, its the game engine of sc2.
I have doubts on the authenticity of that video :\
It's real, and really impressive. I believe it's shift-clicking.
The guy hotkeyed all 3 marines to 1, 2, and 3. Then as the spines is on the way to strike one of them, he immediately moved it one tile away. When the spines returned to cooldown mode, he moved the marine back to its original location. Rinse and repeat and you'll get identical result.
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote: Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers.
On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote: Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers.
How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too.
I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game.
On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote: Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers.
How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too.
I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game.
You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently.
All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block.
By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn.
Could all the young SC2 fanboys stop coming here defending their game (it will become better, or this new "6m1g" bullshit and things like that), thus derailing the thread ?
Because that's not even the fucking problem. The problem is that SC2, that "we" consider much less achieved and entertaining, is imposed to "us" (read remaining foreign BW fans + majority of the Korean audience, which doesn't seem to enjoy SC2 that much) without any other reason than making more money.
They could do 2 separate leagues and every fan would be happy, but guess why they won't ? Because they know it's highly probable SC2's league would fail in Korea if directly compared to BW's one. Even if the top players are free to choose the league, I guess not so many of them would join the SC2's one by themselves (or maybe the ones struggling to come into the spotlight, like it's already the case anyway).
What pisses me the most is that ridiculously simple (but efficient) Blizzard's marketing & commercial plan for that new game :
1.let's loudly announce from the beginning there are 2 more extensions to come, in order to give mainstream players the most important of all things : hope. Can't you see the ridiculous amount of time this argument is brought by SC2 fans, and seems one of the main reason they accept and justify the title's flaws ?
2.then let's design a new game ; even it's a shitty one, or at least far inferior to its illustrious predecessor (should ask people who have played both to a certain extend, read more than casually), there'll be many years of "hope" available, which would be sufficient for Blizzard to justify the exposure (see 3.) and get the fans' backup needed.
3.inject a ton of fresh money to attract all the top nerds who think it's cool to say they "make a living" from a video game, and make the mass goes "WOW, it has to be great".
4.finally, after all the extensions are out and that you've sold x3 more copies than you'd normally have while maintaining an expecting fanbase for years (works even better if the first release is not that good), who cares if the game is still flawed or inferior to its predecessor ; you already want to sell a brand new one.
Only problem here, is that doesn't seem enough to get the Korean's audience attention, used to some high quality show (quality of the hard game, charisma of the players, excitement).
So now, the best way is to force it by mixing both games, thus encouraging top players to switch and larger audience to follow the scene, before getting rid of the old game with ease.
I think we'll never see two separate leagues. I also think it's why Esport is a nice dream, since interests of the market (instant profits) and the constant "need" of technological evolution simply work against natural selection of the more suitable game. Even if SC2 was the perfect sequel to BW and really adequate for Esport, it would soon enough be replaced by a brand new title, maybe a less adequate one, and everything would be lost and to build up again.
On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote: Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers.
How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too.
I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game.
You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently.
All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block.
By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn.
We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices.
On April 07 2012 12:12 Fuu wrote: Could all the young SC2 fanboys stop coming here defending their game (it will become better, or this new "6m1g" bullshit and things like that), thus derailing the thread ?
Because that's not even the fucking problem. The problem is that SC2, that "we" consider much less achieved and entertaining, is imposed to "us" (read remaining foreign BW fans + majority of the Korean audience, which doesn't seem to enjoy SC2 that much) without any other reason than making more money.
They could do 2 separate leagues and every fan would be happy, but guess why they won't ? Because they know it's highly probable SC2's league would fail in Korea if directly compared to BW's one. Even if the top players are free to choose the league, I guess not so many of them would join the SC2's one by themselves (or maybe the ones struggling to come into the spotlight, like it's already the case anyway).
What pisses me the most is that ridiculously simple (but efficient) Blizzard's marketing plan for that new game :
1.let's loudly announce from the beginning there are 2 more extensions to come, in order to give mainstream players the most important of all things : hope. Can't you see the ridiculous amount of time this argument is brought by SC2 fans, and seems one of the main reason they accept and justify the title's flaws ?
2.then let's design a new game ; even it's a shitty one, or at least far inferior to its illustrious predecessor (should ask people who have played both to a certain extend, read more than casually), there'll be many years of "hope" available, which would be sufficient for Blizzard to justify the exposure (see 3.) and get the fan's backup needed.
3.inject a ton of fresh money to attract all the top nerds who think it's cool to say they "make a living" from a video game, and make the mass goes "WOW, it has to be great".
4.finally, after all the extensions are out and that you've sold x3 more copies than you'd normally have while maintaining an expecting fanbase for years (works even better if the first release is not that good), who cares if the game is still flawed or inferior to its predecessor ; you already want to sell a brand new one.
Only problem here, is that doesn't seem enough to get the Korean's audience attention, used to some high quality show (quality of the hard game, charisma of the players, excitement).
So now, the best way is to force it by mixing both games, thus encouraging top players to switch and larger audience to follow the scene, before getting rid of the old game with ease.
I think we'll never see two separate leagues. I also think it's why I think Esport is a nice dream, since interests of the market (instant profits) and the constant "need" of technological evolution simply work against natural selection of the more suitable game. Even if SC2 was the perfect sequel to BW and really adequate for Esport, it would soon enough be replaced by a brand new title, maybe a less adequate one, and everything would be lost and to build up again.
I can't speak for everyone, but don't assume that just because people don't share the same opinion that they are some inexperienced young fanboy. I played BW on and off since 2001-2002ish. Not uber competitive, but I put enough time in to be able to constuct my own opinions from experience and not hype. I suspect I am not the only one either.
On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote: Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers.
How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too.
I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game.
You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently.
All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block.
By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn.
We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices.
I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game.
On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote: Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers.
How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too.
I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game.
You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently.
All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block.
By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn.
We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices.
I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game.
Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2).
To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles?
Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals.
Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold.
And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish.
Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success.
...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle.
On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote: Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers.
How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too.
I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game.
You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently.
All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block.
By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn.
We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices.
I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game.
Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2).
To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles?
Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals.
Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold.
And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish.
Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success.
...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle.
...Or get the fuck out, really simple.
SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope.
I feel like a lot of people just don't get it and it's because of the esports moniker.
I'm not a fan of competetive video games, I'm a fan of Brood War. The only way people can say that BWs time is over or that SC2 is another flavor of a game I should enjoy is because they're viewing this through a spectrum of esports or competetive videogames as a whole whereas my interest in watching SC2 is relative to my interest in watching WC3 or Special Force 2. Which is none at all. When BW is gone I wont watch proleague anymore and if it's split between the two games my interest will be greatly diminished because of a reduction in quantity and quality.
On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote: Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers.
How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too.
I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game.
You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently.
All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block.
By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn.
We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices.
I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game.
Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2).
To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles?
Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals.
Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold.
And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish.
Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success.
...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle.
...Or get the fuck out, really simple.
I hope you know OGN is on television right? And also there was a rumour of one milllion people watched BW final live in China. So I have no idea where you got your shitty numbers from. LOL 20K VIEWER MY ASS.
On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote: Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something?
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers.
How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too.
I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game.
You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently.
All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block.
By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn.
We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices.
I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game.
Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2).
To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles?
Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals.
Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold.
And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish.
Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success.
...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle.
...Or get the fuck out, really simple.
SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope.
SC2's launch has nothing to do with its massive fanbase at the moment, completely irrelevant.
It might never draw football stadiums full of people like BW did, that was unparalleled success, but SC2 does just fine in terms of money, and its only going to get bigger, there wouldnt be multiple 40K $ dollar tournaments with tens of thousands of viewers if it was just completely dead, GSL gets HUNDREDS of thousands of hits and tens of thousands of viewers, and GSL airs at about 2 in the morning USA, your honestly going to tell me that that many Americans just stay up late and no Koreans watch it? -____-
Boxer and Nada? Irrelevant comparison, and for the record, when Boxer plays, you can easily expect another 10-20K people to watch those matches, happens every time I see them play, 20K people watching, once Boxer gets on, about 30K people are on, and they were WAY WAY WAY out of their prime when they switched, long past their Bonjwa era, Flash and Jaedong and Bisu are still highly successful, you are comparing apples to oranges, you are saying in essence, "Not everyone wanted to watch the old washed out bonjwas, so why would anyone want to watch the current top 3 RTS players in the world?" O____O
EPT
