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On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple.
I really don't get this whole "BW is old, move on to SC2" feeling. I've seen the same argument over and over again "SC2 is not as good as BW yet, but it'll get there with the expansions". Well, this might even be true (although I wouldn't be so sure about that), but BW is still the better game now, by a large margain btw.
So what's the point? Out with the "old" because someday the new will be better? This is like saying: "Let the 8 year-old boy be the king now, because one day he'll be better than his father."
In my opinion, all this is happening now because obviously Blizzard wants to force SC2 to succeed at Korea, so they can sell a bunch of copies of the expansions. So they gonna put a lot of money in Kespa's hands to make it happen. It's business. This has nothing to do with SC2 being a better game than BW or having a huge public at Korea.
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On April 07 2012 13:26 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. I hope you know OGN is on television right? And also there was a rumour of one milllion people watched BW final live in China. So I have no idea where you got your shitty numbers from.
Well, considering I watched it with my own eyes and saw the numbers con mis ojos, I would say that my "shitty numbers" are pretty accurate compared to your rumor.
But idk, maybe it was different? Bring me some type of proof otherwise, I am not above eating my words if wrong.
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On April 07 2012 13:26 petro1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. I really don't get this whole "BW is old, move on to SC2" feeling. I've seen the same argument over and over again "SC2 is not as good as BW yet, but it'll get there with the expansions". Well, this might even be true (although I wouldn't be so sure about that), but BW is still the better game now, by a large margain btw. So what's the point? Out with the "old" because someday the new will be better? This is like saying: "Let the 8 year-old boy be the king now, because one day he'll be better than his father." In my opinion, all this is happening now because obviously Blizzard wants to force SC2 to succeed at Korea, so they can sell a bunch of copies of the expansions. So they gonna put a lot of money in Kespa's hands to make it happen. It's business. This has nothing to do with SC2 being a better game than BW or having a huge public at Korea.
It isnt a case of "8 year old boy becoming king instead of his father" ..If you were making that analogy a year and a half ago? You would be completely correct.
To correlate with your correlation, its more akin to "The child is growing up and rapidly outpacing his aged father".
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On April 07 2012 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope.
Truth. Combine that with the fact that this troll is talking about tens of thousands of foreigners watching a stream, when you've got in the hundreds of thousands watching Brood War ON BROADCAST TELEVISION in Korea.
Also true about esports being dumb as hell. I care only about BW. I don't want to watch SC2, LOL, WC2, CSS, Goldeneye, or whatever the hell these "esports" people play. There is no moving on. Only fratboys with beer guts move on from Call of Duty 10 to Call of Duty 11. Me? I'll keep my "Not An Esports Douchebag" card.
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On April 07 2012 13:30 eeniebear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope. Truth. Combine that with the fact that this troll is talking about tens of thousands of foreigners watching a stream, when you've got in the hundreds of thousands watching Brood War ON BROADCAST TELEVISION in Korea. Also true about esports being dumb as hell. I care only about BW. I don't want to watch SC2, LOL, WC2, CSS, Goldeneye, or whatever the hell these "esports" people play. There is no moving on. Only fratboys with beer guts move on from Call of Duty 10 to Call of Duty 11. Me? I'll keep my "Not An Esports Douchebag" card.
Let us assume for all intents and purposes that you are correct in the number of people watching BW currently.
Why is Kespa negotiating with Blizzard?
Why is Jaedong (still making huge salary) actively switching?
Why is the sponsors disappearing for BW and appearing for SC2?
If I am missing something, feel completely free to enlighten me (politely, I have not attacked anyone here, me disagreeing with you does not constitute as trolling) I am only stating what I am seeing from articles in the scene and with my own eyes.
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On April 07 2012 13:28 JohnnyPG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:26 jidolboy wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. I hope you know OGN is on television right? And also there was a rumour of one milllion people watched BW final live in China. So I have no idea where you got your shitty numbers from. Well, considering I watched it with my own eyes and saw the numbers con mis ojos, I would say that my "shitty numbers" are pretty accurate compared to your rumor. But idk, maybe it was different? Bring me some type of proof otherwise, I am not above eating my words if wrong.
So you somehow saw everyone sitting on couch watching BW at home through TV and there was only 20k people. Ok. How about you provide your source of 20k viewer first because I know last PL finals had highest TV viewer number and one million rumoured to have watched live in China.
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On April 07 2012 13:29 JohnnyPG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:26 petro1987 wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. I really don't get this whole "BW is old, move on to SC2" feeling. I've seen the same argument over and over again "SC2 is not as good as BW yet, but it'll get there with the expansions". Well, this might even be true (although I wouldn't be so sure about that), but BW is still the better game now, by a large margain btw. So what's the point? Out with the "old" because someday the new will be better? This is like saying: "Let the 8 year-old boy be the king now, because one day he'll be better than his father." In my opinion, all this is happening now because obviously Blizzard wants to force SC2 to succeed at Korea, so they can sell a bunch of copies of the expansions. So they gonna put a lot of money in Kespa's hands to make it happen. It's business. This has nothing to do with SC2 being a better game than BW or having a huge public at Korea. It isnt a case of "8 year old boy becoming king instead of his father" ..If you were making that analogy a year and a half ago? You would be completely correct. To correlate with your correlation, its more akin to "The child is growing up and rapidly outpacing his aged father".
Maybe that's your opinion. Don't get me wrong, I watch SC2 now and then (I'm actually watching IPL right now). But for me, SC2 still is the 8 year-old boy. One year and half ago? It was a 2 month baby. BW is the 30 year-old reigning king. I wouldn't replace him now.
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Sadly I don't have time to debate over a discussion that is going no where . People have the right to choose what they want to watch, it's like saying hey my right to vote the government of the year given by the constitution shouldn't be respected because I deem your choice to be idiotic and keep on rambling on and on about how you should vote my party .
Look if sc2 is already good we bw folks would have move on to sc2 from the beginning of time and camp and join the "E-SPORT" bandwagon and continue screaming MKP and friends together . Also we would have been watching gom 24/7 and enjoying the game with you guys . Barcraft ? Yeah sounds pretty interesting but given a choice I would have take a flight to korea and watch proleague live and putting up my banner saying " GoD YOung ho ".
However this isn't the situation bw fans have already played sc2 and watch sc2 and yet we are back to the beginning and that's bw . I don't know how well sc2 and it's expansion hope to do so because if they don't do anything that is going to make great changes and add more balance plus entertainment for the spectators who are watching the game . Sooner or later the numbers that you guys take comfort in will deteriorate to nothing.
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On April 07 2012 13:33 JohnnyPG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:30 eeniebear wrote:On April 07 2012 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope. Truth. Combine that with the fact that this troll is talking about tens of thousands of foreigners watching a stream, when you've got in the hundreds of thousands watching Brood War ON BROADCAST TELEVISION in Korea. Also true about esports being dumb as hell. I care only about BW. I don't want to watch SC2, LOL, WC2, CSS, Goldeneye, or whatever the hell these "esports" people play. There is no moving on. Only fratboys with beer guts move on from Call of Duty 10 to Call of Duty 11. Me? I'll keep my "Not An Esports Douchebag" card. Let us assume for all intents and purposes that you are correct in the number of people watching BW currently. Why is Kespa negotiating with Blizzard? Why is Jaedong (still making huge salary) actively switching? Why is the sponsors disappearing for BW and appearing for SC2? If I am missing something, feel completely free to enlighten me (politely, I have not attacked anyone here, me disagreeing with you does not constitute as trolling) I am only stating what I am seeing from articles in the scene and with my own eyes.
It was not the lack of viewers and intrest but it started to happen when Blizz vs Kespa happend. It even got worse whem match fixing occured. Sponsers then started to avoid BW cause it seemed fragile
And dont call yourself BW lover because you clearly have no idea about BW and its scene
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On April 07 2012 13:33 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:28 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 13:26 jidolboy wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. I hope you know OGN is on television right? And also there was a rumour of one milllion people watched BW final live in China. So I have no idea where you got your shitty numbers from. Well, considering I watched it with my own eyes and saw the numbers con mis ojos, I would say that my "shitty numbers" are pretty accurate compared to your rumor. But idk, maybe it was different? Bring me some type of proof otherwise, I am not above eating my words if wrong. So you somehow saw everyone sitting on couch watching BW at home through TV and there was only 20k people. Ok. How about you provide your source of 20k viewer first because I know last PL finals had highest TV viewer number and one million rumoured to have watched live in China.
I was simply watching the stream...
"So you somehow saw everyone sitting on couch watching BW at home through TV"
...And you did? You admitted that it was rumor. I have seen multiple articles floating around here showing proof that BW's TV based viewers have dropped considerably.
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On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple.
OK now that's a really dumb post... well done.
What the fuck is that elitist attitude you're talking about ?
For sure we think that BW is a far better game, and I think a lot of (especially high skilled) SC2 players think the same, but we don't condemn people preferring SC2 for their reasons (main are probably graphics, or never really tried BW).
But why the fuck are they coming to BW proleague to promote their game and don't leave the BW proscene alone ?
The newer the better attitude is really something we'll never get, first because it's plain dumb, also and especially because a huge part of SC2 "success" is due to :
- the amount of sponsoring in it mainly cause it's new ;
- the quality of its predecessor.
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On April 07 2012 13:33 JohnnyPG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:30 eeniebear wrote:On April 07 2012 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope. Truth. Combine that with the fact that this troll is talking about tens of thousands of foreigners watching a stream, when you've got in the hundreds of thousands watching Brood War ON BROADCAST TELEVISION in Korea. Also true about esports being dumb as hell. I care only about BW. I don't want to watch SC2, LOL, WC2, CSS, Goldeneye, or whatever the hell these "esports" people play. There is no moving on. Only fratboys with beer guts move on from Call of Duty 10 to Call of Duty 11. Me? I'll keep my "Not An Esports Douchebag" card. Let us assume for all intents and purposes that you are correct in the number of people watching BW currently. Why is Kespa negotiating with Blizzard? Why is Jaedong (still making huge salary) actively switching? Why is the sponsors disappearing for BW and appearing for SC2? If I am missing something, feel completely free to enlighten me (politely, I have not attacked anyone here, me disagreeing with you does not constitute as trolling) I am only stating what I am seeing from articles in the scene and with my own eyes.
Simple: The very real threat of a Blizzard lawsuit. KESPA and Blizz have had some serious legal troubles before. This is only my opinion, but my gut tells me that Blizzard is holding copyright over KESPA's head in order to push their new product that A. has no track record after two years in Korea and B. (mutually exclusive) Blizzard has huge, huge interests in making profit. Selling $60 per unit times two expansions vs. a $15 dollar game that most people already own . . . yeah, I believe Blizzard would flex their copyright for that.
And you are trollling, because you're coming into a Brood War forum and telling everyone to switch. (see your quoted post)
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On April 07 2012 13:39 JohnnyPG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:33 jidolboy wrote:On April 07 2012 13:28 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 13:26 jidolboy wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. I hope you know OGN is on television right? And also there was a rumour of one milllion people watched BW final live in China. So I have no idea where you got your shitty numbers from. Well, considering I watched it with my own eyes and saw the numbers con mis ojos, I would say that my "shitty numbers" are pretty accurate compared to your rumor. But idk, maybe it was different? Bring me some type of proof otherwise, I am not above eating my words if wrong. So you somehow saw everyone sitting on couch watching BW at home through TV and there was only 20k people. Ok. How about you provide your source of 20k viewer first because I know last PL finals had highest TV viewer number and one million rumoured to have watched live in China. I was simply watching the stream... "So you somehow saw everyone sitting on couch watching BW at home through TV" ...And you did? You admitted that it was rumor. I have seen multiple articles floating around here showing proof that BW's TV based viewers have dropped considerably.
First, you were the one who claimed there was only 20k viewer.
Second, show me the articles
Third, Why would BW rating drop significantly in 2011? I agree it dropped in 2012 considering there is LoL but back them it aas still big
Fourth, you claim there was only 20k in the stream. I told you before. BW final was on TV. So in total there must have been minimum 20k total live veiwer combined(stream and TV)
Fifth, the rumour was that approximately one million Chinese watched BW live not the highest tv rating
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I'm sure telling us BW fans to get over it is quite constructive, really. You act as though we have no right to complain, or at the very least lament. We don't have to accept anything: this thing will happen with or without our support apparently, so our feelings don't influence much, so to tell us to "get the fuck out" if we can't get with the program is just petty.
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On April 07 2012 13:30 eeniebear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope. Truth. Combine that with the fact that this troll is talking about tens of thousands of foreigners watching a stream, when you've got in the hundreds of thousands watching Brood War ON BROADCAST TELEVISION in Korea. Also true about esports being dumb as hell. I care only about BW. I don't want to watch SC2, LOL, WC2, CSS, Goldeneye, or whatever the hell these "esports" people play. There is no moving on. Only fratboys with beer guts move on from Call of Duty 10 to Call of Duty 11. Me? I'll keep my "Not An Esports Douchebag" card.
Being this elitist, arrogant, and discriminatory makes you a huge Douchebag, eSports or not.
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On April 07 2012 13:33 JohnnyPG wrote:
Let us assume for all intents and purposes that you are correct in the number of people watching BW currently.
Why is Kespa negotiating with Blizzard?
Why is Jaedong (still making huge salary) actively switching?
Why is the sponsors disappearing for BW and appearing for SC2?
If I am missing something, feel completely free to enlighten me (politely, I have not attacked anyone here, me disagreeing with you does not constitute as trolling) I am only stating what I am seeing from articles in the scene and with my own eyes.
Its more like Blizzard's negotiating with KeSPA to me. Star2 fan's are quick to brand KeSPA the evil organization, but BW's success is largely due to their structure. Blizzard needs KeSPA to have success in Korea.
1. Jaedong's team is directly controlled by KeSPA
2. Every team is attemping to switch. Its a job for these guys, Im certain their not switching because of their love for the game. Otherwise they would have done that before the competition got crazy.
Foreign sponsors are appearing for star2. And quite frankly a majority are gaming related organizations(Razer). Like others have said. Companies like SKT, KT, CJ, Woongjin, STX have no reason to go global. There domestic companies, and they all play a part in KeSPA's governing board. Even Samsung stopped sponsoring WCG once BW was taken out. I don't know either why sponsors are disappearing, the games declining yes. But its not like Star2 has already dominated BW as the #1 game in Korea. That would be LoL atm(?)
I think you need to consider the fact that this is for Star2's development in Korea. You also need to realize players/fans of the game, and professionals are not necessarily a package. It depends on what direction KeSPA takes their new league. I don't think this will be as pleasent for Star2 fans as they think it will be. Do you really want more Korean domination in a "global" scene? Or an isolated Korean scene?
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I would argue that the game Blizzard wanted to make was "BW with new bells and whistles" exactly, but the pathing AI changed gameplay to such an unforeseen extent that most of development was spent either removing or nerfing the pre-existing bells and whistles that didn't gel. (Blizzard began development by literally copying BW to SC2's engine.) In unit mechanics alone SC2 is actually an astoundingly uncreative sequel, one that arguably removes more things than it adds, but the easier army control makes it into a very different game regardless.
I'd have preferred something designed more from the bottom up.
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On April 07 2012 13:49 eFonSG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:30 eeniebear wrote:On April 07 2012 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope. Truth. Combine that with the fact that this troll is talking about tens of thousands of foreigners watching a stream, when you've got in the hundreds of thousands watching Brood War ON BROADCAST TELEVISION in Korea. Also true about esports being dumb as hell. I care only about BW. I don't want to watch SC2, LOL, WC2, CSS, Goldeneye, or whatever the hell these "esports" people play. There is no moving on. Only fratboys with beer guts move on from Call of Duty 10 to Call of Duty 11. Me? I'll keep my "Not An Esports Douchebag" card. Being this elitist, arrogant, and discriminatory makes you a huge Douchebag, eSports or not.
Discriminatory? Damn straight I'm discriminatory. Watching video games is not an equal opportunity thing for me.
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On April 07 2012 13:33 JohnnyPG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:30 eeniebear wrote:On April 07 2012 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope. Truth. Combine that with the fact that this troll is talking about tens of thousands of foreigners watching a stream, when you've got in the hundreds of thousands watching Brood War ON BROADCAST TELEVISION in Korea. Also true about esports being dumb as hell. I care only about BW. I don't want to watch SC2, LOL, WC2, CSS, Goldeneye, or whatever the hell these "esports" people play. There is no moving on. Only fratboys with beer guts move on from Call of Duty 10 to Call of Duty 11. Me? I'll keep my "Not An Esports Douchebag" card. Let us assume for all intents and purposes that you are correct in the number of people watching BW currently. Why is Kespa negotiating with Blizzard? Why is Jaedong (still making huge salary) actively switching? Why is the sponsors disappearing for BW and appearing for SC2? If I am missing something, feel completely free to enlighten me (politely, I have not attacked anyone here, me disagreeing with you does not constitute as trolling) I am only stating what I am seeing from articles in the scene and with my own eyes.
1. KeSPA could give less shit about SC2 compared to Blizzard's stance. Blizzard-GOM originally wanted to remove KeSPA from the scene when KeSPA didn't coorporate. When Blizzard took back the rights from GOM (on giving out permission to stream Blizz-related games in Korea, not the exclusive SC2 content), everything went smooth and the once "we want to kill BW and make everyone switch to SC2" Blizzard allowed the BW league to happen yet again. If GOM was successful with their SC2 scene in Korea (forget the foreign numbers), Blizzard didn't have to go this far to start negotiation with KeSPA on SC2 Proleague. It's more like the other way around.
2. Because if KeSPA comes out of nowhere and says "We're switching to SC2 now" then everyone who didn't play is fucked. Truth: Everyone played some SC2 from my understand past season when there was a rumor that KeSPA had SC2 on the negotiation table, while they were finalizing the Proleague season. In the midst of all this, the new Proleague had wide monitors and new computers, which pretty much implied that SC2 was on the table for a while, and it seems like the joint-league might be happening. In which case, the BW players will be forced to play both BW and SC2 (from my understanding, but that's still a rumor that I haven't posted except for few people), and since people like Jaedong are already familiar with BW, it is more crucial for someone for him to start preparing for the worst case scenario: Having to play both BW and SC2. No one knows if Jaedong likes BW better than SC2 or not. No one knows if he was forced to prepare for the worst or not. Don't try to make it look like Jaedong wants to switch completely; no one knows what Jaedong is thinking except himself and maybe his teammates/coaches.
3. Since when did SC2 have huge sponsors in Korea? For example, look at the BW teams and the SC2 teams. I don't see LG StarTale or Hyundai oGs. If you want to argue that BW sponsors are declining, that's fine. But it's not fine to compare it to something that doesn't even have corporate sponsorship just yet (unless there are joint BW-SC2 teams, which is something that I hoped for since beginning of SC2's failure in Korea.... oh wait I can't say something failed if it didn't even launch properly, right?).
If you want more history of BW and how it started off, and comparing that to how SC2 started off in Korea, then feel free to ask me. Because, culturally, BW hit Korea at the best timing possible while Blizzard tried to bandwagon the fans into SC2. Shoving down e-Sports down someone's throat forcefully won't do any good.
EDIT: You're banned, but I'm still going to reply to this quote for other's sakes:
On April 07 2012 13:26 JohnnyPG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope. SC2's launch has nothing to do with its massive fanbase at the moment, completely irrelevant. It might never draw football stadiums full of people like BW did, that was unparalleled success, but SC2 does just fine in terms of money, and its only going to get bigger, there wouldnt be multiple 40K $ dollar tournaments with tens of thousands of viewers if it was just completely dead, GSL gets HUNDREDS of thousands of hits and tens of thousands of viewers, and GSL airs at about 2 in the morning USA, your honestly going to tell me that that many Americans just stay up late and no Koreans watch it? -____- Boxer and Nada? Irrelevant comparison, and for the record, when Boxer plays, you can easily expect another 10-20K people to watch those matches, happens every time I see them play, 20K people watching, once Boxer gets on, about 30K people are on, and they were WAY WAY WAY out of their prime when they switched, long past their Bonjwa era, Flash and Jaedong and Bisu are still highly successful, you are comparing apples to oranges, you are saying in essence, "Not everyone wanted to watch the old washed out bonjwas, so why would anyone want to watch the current top 3 RTS players in the world?" O____O
SC2's launch has everything to do with its small number of viewership in Korea at the moment. it is completely relevant. If Blizzard did not force the ads in PC Bangs (pissing off the PC Bang owners) and illegal advertisements on buildings (they said it was accident, but it still gives Blizzard bad image), then people wouldn't have said too much shit about Blizzard doing things wrong in Korea in the first place. In addition, like I said above, BW hit at the right timing; SC2 is just another game that Korean SC2 elitists follow(ed) (notice I said that in parenthesis since everything might change if KeSPA comes into play) for the most part.
I don't see GSL getting bigger unless GOM-TV actually gets a channel of their own and start broadcasting it on TV. Not that many people even watch GSL in Korea because they actually have to download the GOM player to watch it. Sure, there's Anibox but even that didn't raise too much awareness of GSL in Korea compared to ongamenet and MBCGame, the two PRIME GAMING CHANNELS in Korea that most people tuned into.
And lastly, sure there's Bisu, Flash and everyone else, but they're not as famous as BoxeR and NaDa when it comes to e-Sports icon. The days of BoxeR and NaDa were the days where so many fans followed; it almost took over the Korean baseball scene in terms of number of spectators. Taekbangleessang does have huge fanbase (don't get me wrong), but its not as comparable as BoxeR and NaDa's prime. So when an "icon of e-Sports" change from BW to SC2, it will create more buzz than an amazing player like Jaedong switching except among the elitists themselves. Even my mom knows who BoxeR is; she doesn't know who Jaedong is. Don't downplay BoxeR and NaDa's influence just because their prime has passed.
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On April 07 2012 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:[spoiler]Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 13:00 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 07 2012 12:35 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 12:27 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 12:09 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 11:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On April 07 2012 10:43 Xiphos wrote:On April 07 2012 10:36 Gfire wrote:
Seems like that would be totally possible in SC2... If only there were lurkers.
Come to think of it, adding lurkers would probably do well for getting BW fans into SC2. Same goes for the carrier. IIRC, Blizzard didn't want to add the lurker because it's role was filled by the baneling or something? Noo....Blizzard didn't add the lurkers because they want people to play an ENTIRE DIFFERENT game. Which makes us BW fans aggravated because it is a slap in the face to the predessor. Now they realized this mistake and is trying to fix the damage down by adding in some cheap version of the lurker. They call this the "swarm host" that essentially replicate teh same role as the lurker. And oh by the way, they are doing the same to the Defilers. How is it a slap in the face to BW? Blizzard tried to create another SC game with different units with mixed results. I don't want another BW. I have BW and I like it the way it is. If I want to play BW, I would play my BW. If thier had to be an SC2, I would want them to experiment and push the limits of unit design and feel out what works and what doesn't. Yes, a unit may fail ultimately, or not be like a BW counterpart, but you can always add and remove units. Patch them too. I don't want to get into the mechanical debates that plague SC2 vs. BW discussions, but I am just saying I do like Blizzard trying new things versus attempting to reskin old units and sell it as a new game. You and I have different expectation on the game (SC2). You want something that suit your taste of diversity. I prefer them to keep the original BW flavor. While they did fulfill your thirst, they only further starved out mine with all the old aspects vanished in thin air. Many of these drove BW to the great height and reputation that it is currently. All I was asking is for them to re-create the gritty, inter spacial atmosphere touch while having interchangeable strategies between the two of the same brotherhood with the addition of tools that takes out any tediousness. Blizzard did manage to impress me with a mere 1/3 in terms of design. That 1/3 is simply not enough for me to fully appreciate the brand spanking new kid on the block. By the way, I am totally fine for them to introduce newer units as long they don't deter or defile any of my previous experience with the franchise's firstborn. We still have BW though. Its not changed. I don't understand why you would want a clone of what already exists and is successful. The way I see it. I have 2 SC experiences now. You have the BW flavor and SC2 flavor, I can enjoy either or depending on what I feel like. Also, SC2 will likely just keep on being refined, and while not ending up like BW it will still have that competitive edge. I now have choices. I don't want two experiences. I want one single super special awesome game. Well, I dont know what to tell you man, I love BW, and I love SC2, but BW's time is done. Flat out dude, no matter which way you slice your elitism, his elitism, or their elitism, it is blatantly obvious at this point, you can sit there with your hardcore BW buddies and praise BW and love BW (which is completely and totally ok, BW rocks) but the money and the competitive scene is moving towards something new (LoL and SC2). To be honest, after a DECADE of its dominance, why in the hell would you honestly want a carbon copy with some new bells and whistles? Celebrate its life and its ridiculous amount of success, and then move along to the next chapter of Starcraft, or leave period. I'm watching IPL right now, and earlier there was about 70K viewers, there was roughly only 20K viewers for the FINALS of the last BW tournament my friend, in the IPL (not even close to the biggest or most popular SC2 tournament there is) it is widely expected to hit 100K people for the finals. Jaedong, the fucking Tyrant himself is switching and preparing for his switch, your honestly not going to follow the Tyrant because "Well, theres just not enough micro" when the game is still young and evolving? Dude, the expansion is going to raise the skill ceiling 20 fold. And you are honestly delusional enough to believe that once The God, Bisu, and The Tyrant all switch over, SC2 isnt going to pick up HUGE amounts of traction in Korea? Lawl...LAWL!!! Dont be foolish. Come on guys, get the fuck with the program, celebrate BW for its unheard of and (probably unless you're talking about LoL) unparalleled success. ...And then move on to the next Chapter in Starcraft's life cycle. ...Or get the fuck out, really simple. SC2 failed at launch, and did not influence any change in Korean culture whatsoever. Top players switching would only draw some fans into the SC2 scene, but at this rate it is never going to have huge impact as BW did back in the late 90's/early 2000's. When BoxeR (biggest e-sports icon) switched from BW to SC2, or even NaDa, did every single BoxeR and NaDa fan switch to SC2? Nope.
BW's success had less to do with the game and more to do with the environment it was launched in. SC2 may or may not be eventually as successful as BW, but either way it really can't go down the same path as BW. BW got really lucky with its release window in Korea relative to a lot of happenings.
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EPT
