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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
a certain map everyone is best on, a certain moment everyone is at his best, those are ideal circumstances and if those really existed maybe you could set up a good ranking, even then it would be difficult because of mu differences and ranking by achievement is probably the most fucked up circumstantial way to rank people | ||
ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
On June 17 2005 08:47 NonY wrote: <3 NonY You know I really ment you, weird typo.  | ||
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ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
On June 17 2005 08:50 LostDevil wrote: Why does everyone insist Smuft was god or something... He beat Mondi in a series PvZ for the first TLT final...what the fuck is your problem? Even if you don't like him overall, he is one of few that has contested Mondis ZvP greatness. Stop being a dick. | ||
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SwedishHero
Sweden869 Posts
On June 17 2005 09:47 ManaBlue wrote: He beat Mondi in a series PvZ for the first TLT final...what the fuck is your problem? Even if you don't like him overall, he is one of few that has contested Mondis ZvP greatness. Stop being a dick. When was that? | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
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NuclearAntelope
United States1369 Posts
On June 17 2005 09:47 ManaBlue wrote: He beat Mondi in a series PvZ for the first TLT final...what the fuck is your problem? Even if you don't like him overall, he is one of few that has contested Mondis ZvP greatness. Stop being a dick. That's a joke right? Here's the map pool for that final: -Philanthropist -Vertigo -Nostalgia -Plains 2 Hill Sounds like a really zerg friendly series, huh? Mondragon was not at his current level back then, either. The present day mondragon would absolutely crush smuft even on that same unfair map pool. | ||
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ronhaak
Canada98 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On June 17 2005 14:19 ronhaak wrote: how can you even say that. Have you pitted them together and watched the outcome of 100 games? Why do people constantly on this site add their 2cents like its absolute fact. Until you can prove with evidence that mondragon would absolutely crush smuft, I dont believe 1 single word you have written. Seriously, before you people say something that sounds like a fact, back it up with some evidence....otherwise your entire post was a waste of time. it is a fact that mondis zvp is very fucking good, hes proven that in countless games. it is a fact that mondi is pretty much in top shape, hes been as active as ever and playing plenty. it is a fact that smuft is inactive. the odds are veeeeery far in mondis favor, they dont have to have actually played for that much to be obvious. | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On June 17 2005 08:46 ManaBlue wrote: I think you have too much confidence in Mondi. 22-5 is a land slide. But I agree, ran vs Z would be more entertaining since they would both be playing their best. This series is clearly just for fun. From what I've seen in the past, Testie wins many if not most of the Random Zerg vs Zerg games with Mondi (since ZvZ is mondis weakest MU). I'd like to see Testie and Mondi play RvZ or ZvZ series and see what happens. The big thing is that Mondi is the shit ZvP, and many good foreigners are P so it makes him look even better. Poor FisheYe always gets bitchslapped around everytime because they have to play on Mondi's terf. (His fav MU) Let's see Mondi play some skilled Korean Ts and Zs and we can get a better picture of his overall skill rather than watching him rape protoss players over and over...where's smuft when you need him. If there's a matchup mondi always complains about, it's ZvT. His ZvT is 'weakest' of the zerg matchups, his ZvZ is amazing. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 17 2005 13:37 NuclearAntelope wrote: That's a joke right? Here's the map pool for that final: -Philanthropist -Vertigo -Nostalgia -Plains 2 Hill Sounds like a really zerg friendly series, huh? Mondragon was not at his current level back then, either. The present day mondragon would absolutely crush smuft even on that same unfair map pool. P map, Z map (I dunno, maybe even), Z or balanced, Z or balanced. You were saying?  | ||
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LastWish
2015 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On June 17 2005 09:15 NoRTyDoG wrote: so your saying Mondi/Testie are top 2? Who's better? Non-Korean, who are really that much better than Testie and Mondragon? Fisheye, Breakdown? Who? EDIT: Maybe top 2 is a bit high, but I don't really think there are that many people who would consistantly beat Mondragon or Testie. Both of them would win quite a few against any other top non-Korean, I think. On June 17 2005 08:46 ManaBlue wrote: The big thing is that Mondi is the shit ZvP, and many good foreigners are P so it makes him look even better. Poor FisheYe always gets bitchslapped around everytime because they have to play on Mondi's terf. (His fav MU) Let's see Mondi play some skilled Korean Ts and Zs and we can get a better picture of his overall skill rather than watching him rape protoss players over and over...where's smuft when you need him. He did beat Zeus ZvP, then Zeus went on to beat Yellow. | ||
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NuclearAntelope
United States1369 Posts
On June 17 2005 15:22 FrozenArbiter wrote: P map, Z map (I dunno, maybe even), Z or balanced, Z or balanced. You were saying? -Philanthropist isn't really up for debate, so I'll skip it. -pvz vertigo is so amazingly easy! If the zerg does a 12 hatch, even a 10/12 gate rush is a 90% win, and a 9/10 is 99.9999%. Zerg has to respect that, so they have to do a pool first build or 9 hatch, allowing you to just fast expo and have the obvious advantage. Mondragon had no chance vs smuft in any of the vertigo games(I just watched them again, smuft just kept taking expansions + cannons) -nostalgia is pretty even, that's why they each won games on it -I've never had any problems with pvz p2h. Most of the map is really narrow, so the terrain doesn't help zerg much. you can cannon rush behind the mineral line, and just fast expo after if it doesn't work(zerg is behind either way). What I was saying(thanks for asking) is that the map pool favored toss. edit: mondragon did win 1 game on vertigo, where he countered smuft's fast expo well, but smuft won 3-1 on vertigo overall. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
Philanthropist: Protoss Vertigo: Equal (one of the very few good PvZ land maps) Nostalgia: Zerg Plains to Hill: Zerg This is only a ZvP perspective. None of those maps favor Zerg vs Terran. Though most of them are doable. I agree that Mondragon is much better today, and that Smuft has always had a strong PvZ (not godlike or anything but pretty damn strong). He won TLT because he was the better player of the two. Today he would most likely lose on the same maps. There's no reason to scream for Smuft because Mondragon dominates the foreign PvZ scene, it makes no difference. | ||
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RiSE
United States3182 Posts
On June 17 2005 15:26 LastWish wrote: Plains to Hill zerg map? I really think it's more like terran map, or balanced. He's talking about between P and Z maybe? dunno -_- | ||
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NuclearAntelope
United States1369 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
P2H is pretty hard for PvZ. Entrance is open and no high-ground/low-ground choke make early game harder than on temple (where you have the option to tech fast with few zeals/1probe). When you manage to get to middle game your expansion can be hit by lurkers without drop research, muta harass everywhere. After you have one expansion it'll be incredibly hard to expand another time. Meanwhile Zerg can take islands and go mutalisk to defend/attack islands. This is a pretty basic explanation but should give you some idea of what Zerg can do in this matchup. | ||
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FroZZoR
China925 Posts
it involves zerg trying to do gay tricks while turtling and staying alive and then probably losing a very long game. | ||
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baal
10659 Posts
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SA-kcabsiozteh
United States396 Posts
It's a shame, I've never seen Mondi nor Testie play... I'm going to have to dl these replays~~~~~ | ||
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