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On October 18 2011 13:56 Kiyo. wrote:
Why do some of the people in this thread think Blizzard would some how force these players to play SC2? What are they gonna do? Tie them up to a chair?
If these guys play SC2 it will be because they choose to. It doesn't matter if its some deal with Blizzard for going to Blizzcon, it's their choice.
A lot of the people in this thread resent sc2. Seeing some of the best bw players enjoy the game might just kill them a little inside.
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On October 18 2011 13:49 domane wrote:
I wonder if this is the start of a new partnership between Blizzard and KeSPA. One that will ultimately help SC2 gain greater viewership and be televised in Korea.
Ultimately I think both realized that their fighting is not benefiting anyone and is hurting both, hopefully they can work out something for the good of both BW and SC2. It would be cool if both games could coexist in Korea instead of the Black vs White "one must die" thing that is so popular in the internet.
Hope this means a greater future for all parties involved
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On October 18 2011 13:22 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 11:19 kuroshiroi wrote:
The paranoia is unwarranted, guys. They're not going to play SC2 and even if they did, who cares? Blizzard clearly invited them because they want to continue to support BW and the last time I checked, it's called Blizzcon, not SC2con, i.e. all Blizzard games are welcome.
Blizzard is proud of BW and they should be, (with 12 years of relevance, a bloody miracle in this day and age) and this is the logical and preferred course of action now that the KESPA fight is over. I'm just glad we get to see some BW action after these weeks of inactivity :|
Anyway, am I going to be able to see free streams/vods of whatever they do or am I shit out of luck there? I don't see how the paranoia is unwarranted tbh. Not so long ago blizzard tried to kill the BW scene in Korea. Now it's all cool and dandy and they're inviting BW progamers? Kinda fishy to me.
They never tried to kill it. They tried to profit from it and gain partial control of any televised leagues. I think they were warranted to the latter since you know...they created the game and they held copyrights for intellectual property that a whole slew of Korean corporations were profiting off of. I do think they tried to over-extend their reach since they had no part in creating these BW leagues to begin with, but I think it was well within their rights to request licensing fees.
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On October 18 2011 14:02 iammaru wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 13:56 Kiyo. wrote:
Why do some of the people in this thread think Blizzard would some how force these players to play SC2? What are they gonna do? Tie them up to a chair?
If these guys play SC2 it will be because they choose to. It doesn't matter if its some deal with Blizzard for going to Blizzcon, it's their choice. A lot of the people in this thread resent sc2. Seeing some of the best bw players enjoy the game might just kill them a little inside.
Some people in this thread might not enjoy a sub-par spectator experience.
On October 18 2011 14:07 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 13:22 maybenexttime wrote:On October 18 2011 11:19 kuroshiroi wrote:
The paranoia is unwarranted, guys. They're not going to play SC2 and even if they did, who cares? Blizzard clearly invited them because they want to continue to support BW and the last time I checked, it's called Blizzcon, not SC2con, i.e. all Blizzard games are welcome.
Blizzard is proud of BW and they should be, (with 12 years of relevance, a bloody miracle in this day and age) and this is the logical and preferred course of action now that the KESPA fight is over. I'm just glad we get to see some BW action after these weeks of inactivity :|
Anyway, am I going to be able to see free streams/vods of whatever they do or am I shit out of luck there? I don't see how the paranoia is unwarranted tbh. Not so long ago blizzard tried to kill the BW scene in Korea. Now it's all cool and dandy and they're inviting BW progamers? Kinda fishy to me. They never tried to kill it. They tried to profit from it and gain partial control of any televised leagues. I think they were warranted to the latter since you know...they created the game and they held copyrights for intellectual property that a whole slew of Korean corporations were profiting off of. I do think they tried to over-extend their reach since they had no part in creating these BW leagues to begin with, but I think it was well within their rights to request licensing fees.
The judge asked Blizzard and their lawyers to define intellectual property. The case ended there.
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Blizzard doesnt have a good will... Just kidding. They obviously had to pick fantasy over Flash because hes still in rehab for his surgery and definetely could not travel like that, if even in shape to play well. I hope this goes well ^^
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50394 Posts
we don't know how the case ended really,it was very abrupt.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On October 18 2011 14:07 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 13:22 maybenexttime wrote:On October 18 2011 11:19 kuroshiroi wrote:
The paranoia is unwarranted, guys. They're not going to play SC2 and even if they did, who cares? Blizzard clearly invited them because they want to continue to support BW and the last time I checked, it's called Blizzcon, not SC2con, i.e. all Blizzard games are welcome.
Blizzard is proud of BW and they should be, (with 12 years of relevance, a bloody miracle in this day and age) and this is the logical and preferred course of action now that the KESPA fight is over. I'm just glad we get to see some BW action after these weeks of inactivity :|
Anyway, am I going to be able to see free streams/vods of whatever they do or am I shit out of luck there? I don't see how the paranoia is unwarranted tbh. Not so long ago blizzard tried to kill the BW scene in Korea. Now it's all cool and dandy and they're inviting BW progamers? Kinda fishy to me. They never tried to kill it. They tried to profit from it and gain partial control of any televised leagues. I think they were warranted to the latter since you know...they created the game and they held copyrights for intellectual property that a whole slew of Korean corporations were profiting off of. I do think they tried to over-extend their reach since they had no part in creating these BW leagues to begin with, but I think it was well within their rights to request licensing fees.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2011 15:26 Milkis wrote:Brief Summary of what happened in the first court session - MBC Game requested that Blizzard post a collateral [1]
- MBC also requested that the case be classified a bit more specific than Blizzard's case for simple IP rights violation, and the judges also requested that Blizzard submit any precedent cases regarding IP rights violations in America that is related
- MBC and OGN will be defended together in this case
- The judge asked "isn't this something that should end via negotiation". Blizzard Lawyer responded "Yes", and the MBC lawyer responded that they would prefer a decision -- because this is the first case regarding game IP rights, they would like to figure out the legal boundaries of how much of the game they an use.
- Blizzard is suing MBC for 350,000,000 won.
Second session took place today on the 28th. Some notes. - MBC Game responded to the prosecution's IP right violation argument with various arguments that claimed what they were doing was lawful. They also requested the original contract between Gretech and Blizzard [2] questioning Gretech's authority to form contracts.
- The key point of the trial was related to who the damages would be paid to, the duration of the damages, and the compensation. This is because even though Gretech only got a license on May, Blizzard and Gretech both requested compensation from damages. In response, the Judges ordered that the damages be split between the prosecuting parties [3], and that they recalculate the amount requested and the duration of the damages and then resubmit the damages.
- The judge also ordered the prosecution to prove the fact that defendants had violated IP rights.
- The defendants also pointed out that the English contracts between Gretech and Blizzard included an article about a transition from Starcraft to Starcraft 2 [4], and requested that the prosecution explain themselves, as it strange for Blizzard to claim rights to a BW, as Blizzard had no intentions to hold Brood War tournaments. The judges also ordered that this happen, and Blizzard lawyers answered "They cannot address that in the middle of the lawsuit"
- Third trial will take place on March 18th.
Translation Notes [1] apparently MBC is allowed to request this in the case where the opposing party is foreign -- basically, if MBC wins the case, Blizzard will have to compensate MBC for the law fees [2] Blizzard is implied, not 100% sure [3] I'm thinking there's an error here -- since it refers to prosecution, so it would relate to Gretech/Blizzard, but the article claims MBC/OGN. [4] "Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty :
Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms available for play." was the original English on that articleSources: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13438&id=581185http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=546149&category=102http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=39412
I bolded the important part, now something may have been lost into translation but from what I recall that was fairly accurate by Milkis.
The case ended with a settlement as far as I know. OGN/MBC had to pay some money and add Blizzard to their list of sponsors(as in, you can see the Blizz logo everywhere now). Not sure what else came out of it. I am not informed enough to make that call.
Edit: either way this is going way offtopic now.
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On October 18 2011 13:55 MrMotionPicture wrote:
Say hello to showmatches! Nestea vs Jaedong would be amazingggg
Actually it would be terrible. If they play BW Nestea would get massacred and if they play SC2 Jaedong would get destroyed.
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On October 18 2011 14:13 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 14:07 Devolved wrote:On October 18 2011 13:22 maybenexttime wrote:On October 18 2011 11:19 kuroshiroi wrote:
The paranoia is unwarranted, guys. They're not going to play SC2 and even if they did, who cares? Blizzard clearly invited them because they want to continue to support BW and the last time I checked, it's called Blizzcon, not SC2con, i.e. all Blizzard games are welcome.
Blizzard is proud of BW and they should be, (with 12 years of relevance, a bloody miracle in this day and age) and this is the logical and preferred course of action now that the KESPA fight is over. I'm just glad we get to see some BW action after these weeks of inactivity :|
Anyway, am I going to be able to see free streams/vods of whatever they do or am I shit out of luck there? I don't see how the paranoia is unwarranted tbh. Not so long ago blizzard tried to kill the BW scene in Korea. Now it's all cool and dandy and they're inviting BW progamers? Kinda fishy to me. They never tried to kill it. They tried to profit from it and gain partial control of any televised leagues. I think they were warranted to the latter since you know...they created the game and they held copyrights for intellectual property that a whole slew of Korean corporations were profiting off of. I do think they tried to over-extend their reach since they had no part in creating these BW leagues to begin with, but I think it was well within their rights to request licensing fees. + Show Spoiler +On January 28 2011 15:26 Milkis wrote:Brief Summary of what happened in the first court session - MBC Game requested that Blizzard post a collateral [1]
- MBC also requested that the case be classified a bit more specific than Blizzard's case for simple IP rights violation, and the judges also requested that Blizzard submit any precedent cases regarding IP rights violations in America that is related
- MBC and OGN will be defended together in this case
- The judge asked "isn't this something that should end via negotiation". Blizzard Lawyer responded "Yes", and the MBC lawyer responded that they would prefer a decision -- because this is the first case regarding game IP rights, they would like to figure out the legal boundaries of how much of the game they an use.
- Blizzard is suing MBC for 350,000,000 won.
Second session took place today on the 28th. Some notes. - MBC Game responded to the prosecution's IP right violation argument with various arguments that claimed what they were doing was lawful. They also requested the original contract between Gretech and Blizzard [2] questioning Gretech's authority to form contracts.
- The key point of the trial was related to who the damages would be paid to, the duration of the damages, and the compensation. This is because even though Gretech only got a license on May, Blizzard and Gretech both requested compensation from damages. In response, the Judges ordered that the damages be split between the prosecuting parties [3], and that they recalculate the amount requested and the duration of the damages and then resubmit the damages.
- The judge also ordered the prosecution to prove the fact that defendants had violated IP rights.
- The defendants also pointed out that the English contracts between Gretech and Blizzard included an article about a transition from Starcraft to Starcraft 2 [4], and requested that the prosecution explain themselves, as it strange for Blizzard to claim rights to a BW, as Blizzard had no intentions to hold Brood War tournaments. The judges also ordered that this happen, and Blizzard lawyers answered "They cannot address that in the middle of the lawsuit"
- Third trial will take place on March 18th.
Translation Notes [1] apparently MBC is allowed to request this in the case where the opposing party is foreign -- basically, if MBC wins the case, Blizzard will have to compensate MBC for the law fees [2] Blizzard is implied, not 100% sure [3] I'm thinking there's an error here -- since it refers to prosecution, so it would relate to Gretech/Blizzard, but the article claims MBC/OGN. [4] "Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty :
Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms available for play." was the original English on that articleSources: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13438&id=581185http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=546149&category=102http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=39412 I bolded the important part, now something may have been lost into translation but from what I recall that was fairly accurate by Milkis. The case ended with a settlement as far as I know. OGN/MBC had to pay some money and add Blizzard to their list of sponsors(as in, you can see the Blizz logo everywhere now). Not sure what else came out of it. I am not informed enough to make that call. Edit: either way this is going way offtopic now.
Hmm, that's quite interesting and I had never read that. It really shines a bad light on Blizzard if that is accurate, which at first glance seems to be. It seems Blizzard never officially mentioned this "forced transition" but had it buried somewhere within the contract that they wanted Kespa and co. to agree to.
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On October 18 2011 14:17 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 13:55 MrMotionPicture wrote:
Say hello to showmatches! Nestea vs Jaedong would be amazingggg Actually it would be terrible. If they play BW Nestea would get massacred and if they play SC2 Jaedong would get destroyed.
Compromise. WC3, WoW, or Diablo 3 PvP.
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On October 18 2011 14:17 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 13:55 MrMotionPicture wrote:
Say hello to showmatches! Nestea vs Jaedong would be amazingggg Actually it would be terrible. If they play BW Nestea would get massacred and if they play SC2 Jaedong would get destroyed.
But what if they play SC2BW?! Come on! That would be pretty sick. I'd imagine Jaedong would be favored in that, but it would at least give Nestea somewhat of a chance...maybe....but you wouldn't find me betting against the dong.
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On October 18 2011 10:13 Gann1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 08:37 McPricE wrote:
Now, riddle me this - why do BW aficionados LOATHE sc2 so much?? most of us don't LOATHE sc2. but we don't appreciate it when the sc2 crowd rolls through talking about how it's only a matter of time until our favorite players switch to sc2. the ignorance is laughable, because they talk about how "huge" sc2 is and don't realize that sc2 teams are dirt poor compared to bw teams, how most korean sc2 players (even the good ones) don't even make a salary while top bw players (the ones that "should switch to SC2 because it's bigger" command six-figure salaries. that's why people lash out. The sc2 people who provoke it probably don't have any bad intentions (except for the trolls). I can understand why you'd want to see what TBLS and other top bw players could do in your game.
Many SC2 fans do act arrogant but BW fans are often equally arrogant and more delusional when they deny the fact that SC2 will dominate the scene soon. BW's days are ending, eventually the transition is going to happen; most likely it will start in a couple years after GOM's exclusive contract is up, thus allowing other leagues to broadcast games on television.
BW had more than a ten year run. It's still doing well, still generating great games, still paying teams handsomely. But nothing lasts forever and eventually the transition is going to happen.
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On October 18 2011 14:44 PhoenixDark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 10:13 Gann1 wrote:On October 18 2011 08:37 McPricE wrote:
Now, riddle me this - why do BW aficionados LOATHE sc2 so much?? most of us don't LOATHE sc2. but we don't appreciate it when the sc2 crowd rolls through talking about how it's only a matter of time until our favorite players switch to sc2. the ignorance is laughable, because they talk about how "huge" sc2 is and don't realize that sc2 teams are dirt poor compared to bw teams, how most korean sc2 players (even the good ones) don't even make a salary while top bw players (the ones that "should switch to SC2 because it's bigger" command six-figure salaries. that's why people lash out. The sc2 people who provoke it probably don't have any bad intentions (except for the trolls). I can understand why you'd want to see what TBLS and other top bw players could do in your game. Many SC2 fans do act arrogant but BW fans are often equally arrogant and more delusional when they deny the fact that SC2 will dominate the scene soon. BW's days are ending, eventually the transition is going to happen; most likely it will start in a couple years after GOM's exclusive contract is up, thus allowing other leagues to broadcast games on television. BW had more than a ten year run. It's still doing well, still generating great games, still paying teams handsomely. But nothing lasts forever and eventually the transition is going to happen.
I hate to get into these discussions, but this is somewhat ignorant. Yes, SC:BW is slowly dying in Korea. But so is e-sports, because BW is essentially e-sports there.
I'll quote another post from a Korean who sees it firsthand, referring to the latest OSL:
Of course they can draw an enormous crowd. They give tons of free stuff away plus practically bend over backwards to draw large numbers.
Starcraft is dying in Korea. I live in Korea, and I've lived there most of my life, and I can feel the change. PC bangs are going out of business left and right. Kids don't go to PC bangs after school with friends as I used to.
MBC Game is changing into a music channel. Ongamenet is struggling to remain solvent. Last I heard, three teams are disbanding next year, rest of them probably will, too, in the next few years. Sponsors are drying up, too.
And then there are Korean-made games. We've had gaming so popular for so long, pretty much every man and woman plays video games on a daily basis. 1/3 of Koreans have smartphones. 90% of Koreans have broadband internet access. The gaming market is huge here, and we have tons of games coming out that compete evenly with American blockbusters. I mean, not that many people play WoW (even in its heyday) or SC2 here.
Korea is a very entertainment-driven culture. You wouldn't believe how ubiquitous the idol business is currently in Korea, by the way. Yeah, I'd say that's the dominant cultural pastime now. Not that gaming was nearly as monolithic or mainstream as the whole idol thing is now.
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On October 18 2011 14:51 rift wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 14:44 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 18 2011 10:13 Gann1 wrote:On October 18 2011 08:37 McPricE wrote:
Now, riddle me this - why do BW aficionados LOATHE sc2 so much?? most of us don't LOATHE sc2. but we don't appreciate it when the sc2 crowd rolls through talking about how it's only a matter of time until our favorite players switch to sc2. the ignorance is laughable, because they talk about how "huge" sc2 is and don't realize that sc2 teams are dirt poor compared to bw teams, how most korean sc2 players (even the good ones) don't even make a salary while top bw players (the ones that "should switch to SC2 because it's bigger" command six-figure salaries. that's why people lash out. The sc2 people who provoke it probably don't have any bad intentions (except for the trolls). I can understand why you'd want to see what TBLS and other top bw players could do in your game. Many SC2 fans do act arrogant but BW fans are often equally arrogant and more delusional when they deny the fact that SC2 will dominate the scene soon. BW's days are ending, eventually the transition is going to happen; most likely it will start in a couple years after GOM's exclusive contract is up, thus allowing other leagues to broadcast games on television. BW had more than a ten year run. It's still doing well, still generating great games, still paying teams handsomely. But nothing lasts forever and eventually the transition is going to happen. I hate to get into these discussions, but this is somewhat ignorant. Yes, SC:BW is slowly dying in Korea. But so is e-sports, because BW is essentially e-sports there. I'll quote another post from a Korean who sees it firsthand, referring to the latest OSL: Show nested quote +Of course they can draw an enormous crowd. They give tons of free stuff away plus practically bend over backwards to draw large numbers.
Starcraft is dying in Korea. I live in Korea, and I've lived there most of my life, and I can feel the change. PC bangs are going out of business left and right. Kids don't go to PC bangs after school with friends as I used to.
MBC Game is changing into a music channel. Ongamenet is struggling to remain solvent. Last I heard, three teams are disbanding next year, rest of them probably will, too, in the next few years. Sponsors are drying up, too.
And then there are Korean-made games. We've had gaming so popular for so long, pretty much every man and woman plays video games on a daily basis. 1/3 of Koreans have smartphones. 90% of Koreans have broadband internet access. The gaming market is huge here, and we have tons of games coming out that compete evenly with American blockbusters. I mean, not that many people play WoW (even in its heyday) or SC2 here.
Korea is a very entertainment-driven culture. You wouldn't believe how ubiquitous the idol business is currently in Korea, by the way. Yeah, I'd say that's the dominant cultural pastime now. Not that gaming was nearly as monolithic or mainstream as the whole idol thing is now.
And aren't we all dying?
I think I'm a little bit idealist but I hope that BW can live for a long more time and SC2 too, along with other games like LoL, dota2, CS and any other game that is competitive enough to attract viewers and be called an e-sport. I stated in a few posts that I would like to see these guys playing SC2 because I mainly watch it, but I'm fine too if they want to play BW.
Edit: The guy's post below mine says a very good consequence of BW top pros staying in BW too. The foreigner scene is getting huge, MLG IIRC got 140k viewers at this weekend, plus good tournaments being created.
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On October 18 2011 14:51 rift wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 14:44 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 18 2011 10:13 Gann1 wrote:On October 18 2011 08:37 McPricE wrote:
Now, riddle me this - why do BW aficionados LOATHE sc2 so much?? most of us don't LOATHE sc2. but we don't appreciate it when the sc2 crowd rolls through talking about how it's only a matter of time until our favorite players switch to sc2. the ignorance is laughable, because they talk about how "huge" sc2 is and don't realize that sc2 teams are dirt poor compared to bw teams, how most korean sc2 players (even the good ones) don't even make a salary while top bw players (the ones that "should switch to SC2 because it's bigger" command six-figure salaries. that's why people lash out. The sc2 people who provoke it probably don't have any bad intentions (except for the trolls). I can understand why you'd want to see what TBLS and other top bw players could do in your game. Many SC2 fans do act arrogant but BW fans are often equally arrogant and more delusional when they deny the fact that SC2 will dominate the scene soon. BW's days are ending, eventually the transition is going to happen; most likely it will start in a couple years after GOM's exclusive contract is up, thus allowing other leagues to broadcast games on television. BW had more than a ten year run. It's still doing well, still generating great games, still paying teams handsomely. But nothing lasts forever and eventually the transition is going to happen. I hate to get into these discussions, but this is somewhat ignorant. Yes, SC:BW is slowly dying in Korea. But so is e-sports, because BW is essentially e-sports there. Koreans grind away at MMOs more than play BW these days. PC baangs are closing left and right. MBCGame is being turned into a music channel in months because MBC no longer sees it as being profitable. Three teams have disbanded, and KeSPA/OGN are searching for a sponsor for a single team.
Everything you mentioned points to Esports dying in Korea. However, around the rest of the world it's actually growing. IGN, a media company, has become involved for the first time and is throwing a lot of money around the scene as a direct result of SC2's global popularity. Ongoing leagues like MLG and IEM that never included Broodwar as a competitive game are expanding into SC2 and finding that it is boosting their viewership numbers. Korea came first, and now it's the rest of the world's turn. The only thing that could reverse this tide is if all the BW pro houses switched to SC2. In a matter of a single month we would see Koreans completely monopolize the scene. I think it's probably good for Esports that Korea is lagging behind in regards to popularizing SC2, because that gives the foreign scene a chance to build up their Esports infrastructure so to speak.
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There is no way they will switch to SC2, probably will just play some BW showmatches and try out a bit of SC2. Blizzard can't be stupid enough to anger the fans right?
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On October 18 2011 15:00 dmnum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 14:51 rift wrote:On October 18 2011 14:44 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 18 2011 10:13 Gann1 wrote:On October 18 2011 08:37 McPricE wrote:
Now, riddle me this - why do BW aficionados LOATHE sc2 so much?? most of us don't LOATHE sc2. but we don't appreciate it when the sc2 crowd rolls through talking about how it's only a matter of time until our favorite players switch to sc2. the ignorance is laughable, because they talk about how "huge" sc2 is and don't realize that sc2 teams are dirt poor compared to bw teams, how most korean sc2 players (even the good ones) don't even make a salary while top bw players (the ones that "should switch to SC2 because it's bigger" command six-figure salaries. that's why people lash out. The sc2 people who provoke it probably don't have any bad intentions (except for the trolls). I can understand why you'd want to see what TBLS and other top bw players could do in your game. Many SC2 fans do act arrogant but BW fans are often equally arrogant and more delusional when they deny the fact that SC2 will dominate the scene soon. BW's days are ending, eventually the transition is going to happen; most likely it will start in a couple years after GOM's exclusive contract is up, thus allowing other leagues to broadcast games on television. BW had more than a ten year run. It's still doing well, still generating great games, still paying teams handsomely. But nothing lasts forever and eventually the transition is going to happen. I hate to get into these discussions, but this is somewhat ignorant. Yes, SC:BW is slowly dying in Korea. But so is e-sports, because BW is essentially e-sports there. I'll quote another post from a Korean who sees it firsthand, referring to the latest OSL: Of course they can draw an enormous crowd. They give tons of free stuff away plus practically bend over backwards to draw large numbers.
Starcraft is dying in Korea. I live in Korea, and I've lived there most of my life, and I can feel the change. PC bangs are going out of business left and right. Kids don't go to PC bangs after school with friends as I used to.
MBC Game is changing into a music channel. Ongamenet is struggling to remain solvent. Last I heard, three teams are disbanding next year, rest of them probably will, too, in the next few years. Sponsors are drying up, too.
And then there are Korean-made games. We've had gaming so popular for so long, pretty much every man and woman plays video games on a daily basis. 1/3 of Koreans have smartphones. 90% of Koreans have broadband internet access. The gaming market is huge here, and we have tons of games coming out that compete evenly with American blockbusters. I mean, not that many people play WoW (even in its heyday) or SC2 here.
Korea is a very entertainment-driven culture. You wouldn't believe how ubiquitous the idol business is currently in Korea, by the way. Yeah, I'd say that's the dominant cultural pastime now. Not that gaming was nearly as monolithic or mainstream as the whole idol thing is now. And aren't we all dying? I think I'm a little bit idealist but I hope that BW can live for a long more time and SC2 too, along with other games like LoL, dota2, CS and any other game that is competitive enough to attract viewers and be called an e-sport. I stated in a few posts that I would like to see these guys playing SC2 because I mainly watch it, but I'm fine too if they want to play BW.
I'm not talking about the niche or hardcore audience like ourselves. We'll always play and love these games. But mainstream e-sports culture is, sadly, on the decline in Korea, and I can't see anything changing it.
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Wisdom. FireBatHero
Q:Why does a man live?
A: You are mistaken if you think you are living. You are currently dying. You're just creeping towards death little by little. Your life is limited by time. Haha. I am still figuring out my dream. I am dying, but I want to achieve my dream. Everyone fighting~!
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On October 18 2011 15:05 rift wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 15:00 dmnum wrote:On October 18 2011 14:51 rift wrote:On October 18 2011 14:44 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 18 2011 10:13 Gann1 wrote:On October 18 2011 08:37 McPricE wrote:
Now, riddle me this - why do BW aficionados LOATHE sc2 so much?? most of us don't LOATHE sc2. but we don't appreciate it when the sc2 crowd rolls through talking about how it's only a matter of time until our favorite players switch to sc2. the ignorance is laughable, because they talk about how "huge" sc2 is and don't realize that sc2 teams are dirt poor compared to bw teams, how most korean sc2 players (even the good ones) don't even make a salary while top bw players (the ones that "should switch to SC2 because it's bigger" command six-figure salaries. that's why people lash out. The sc2 people who provoke it probably don't have any bad intentions (except for the trolls). I can understand why you'd want to see what TBLS and other top bw players could do in your game. Many SC2 fans do act arrogant but BW fans are often equally arrogant and more delusional when they deny the fact that SC2 will dominate the scene soon. BW's days are ending, eventually the transition is going to happen; most likely it will start in a couple years after GOM's exclusive contract is up, thus allowing other leagues to broadcast games on television. BW had more than a ten year run. It's still doing well, still generating great games, still paying teams handsomely. But nothing lasts forever and eventually the transition is going to happen. I hate to get into these discussions, but this is somewhat ignorant. Yes, SC:BW is slowly dying in Korea. But so is e-sports, because BW is essentially e-sports there. I'll quote another post from a Korean who sees it firsthand, referring to the latest OSL: Of course they can draw an enormous crowd. They give tons of free stuff away plus practically bend over backwards to draw large numbers.
Starcraft is dying in Korea. I live in Korea, and I've lived there most of my life, and I can feel the change. PC bangs are going out of business left and right. Kids don't go to PC bangs after school with friends as I used to.
MBC Game is changing into a music channel. Ongamenet is struggling to remain solvent. Last I heard, three teams are disbanding next year, rest of them probably will, too, in the next few years. Sponsors are drying up, too.
And then there are Korean-made games. We've had gaming so popular for so long, pretty much every man and woman plays video games on a daily basis. 1/3 of Koreans have smartphones. 90% of Koreans have broadband internet access. The gaming market is huge here, and we have tons of games coming out that compete evenly with American blockbusters. I mean, not that many people play WoW (even in its heyday) or SC2 here.
Korea is a very entertainment-driven culture. You wouldn't believe how ubiquitous the idol business is currently in Korea, by the way. Yeah, I'd say that's the dominant cultural pastime now. Not that gaming was nearly as monolithic or mainstream as the whole idol thing is now. And aren't we all dying? I think I'm a little bit idealist but I hope that BW can live for a long more time and SC2 too, along with other games like LoL, dota2, CS and any other game that is competitive enough to attract viewers and be called an e-sport. I stated in a few posts that I would like to see these guys playing SC2 because I mainly watch it, but I'm fine too if they want to play BW. I'm not talking about the niche or hardcore audience like ourselves. We'll always play and love these games. But mainstream e-sports culture is, sadly, on the decline in Korea, and I can't see anything changing it.
Yeah I read your post before the edit and I just wanted to state that BW doesn't make me happy, and while I would love to watch top BW pros playing SC2, losing BW would be very sad.
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On October 18 2011 15:02 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 14:51 rift wrote:On October 18 2011 14:44 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 18 2011 10:13 Gann1 wrote:On October 18 2011 08:37 McPricE wrote:
Now, riddle me this - why do BW aficionados LOATHE sc2 so much?? most of us don't LOATHE sc2. but we don't appreciate it when the sc2 crowd rolls through talking about how it's only a matter of time until our favorite players switch to sc2. the ignorance is laughable, because they talk about how "huge" sc2 is and don't realize that sc2 teams are dirt poor compared to bw teams, how most korean sc2 players (even the good ones) don't even make a salary while top bw players (the ones that "should switch to SC2 because it's bigger" command six-figure salaries. that's why people lash out. The sc2 people who provoke it probably don't have any bad intentions (except for the trolls). I can understand why you'd want to see what TBLS and other top bw players could do in your game. Many SC2 fans do act arrogant but BW fans are often equally arrogant and more delusional when they deny the fact that SC2 will dominate the scene soon. BW's days are ending, eventually the transition is going to happen; most likely it will start in a couple years after GOM's exclusive contract is up, thus allowing other leagues to broadcast games on television. BW had more than a ten year run. It's still doing well, still generating great games, still paying teams handsomely. But nothing lasts forever and eventually the transition is going to happen. I hate to get into these discussions, but this is somewhat ignorant. Yes, SC:BW is slowly dying in Korea. But so is e-sports, because BW is essentially e-sports there. Koreans grind away at MMOs more than play BW these days. PC baangs are closing left and right. MBCGame is being turned into a music channel in months because MBC no longer sees it as being profitable. Three teams have disbanded, and KeSPA/OGN are searching for a sponsor for a single team. Everything you mentioned points to Esports dying in Korea. However, around the rest of the world it's actually growing. IGN, a media company, has become involved for the first time and is throwing a lot of money around the scene as a direct result of SC2's global popularity. Ongoing leagues like MLG and IEM that never included Broodwar as a competitive game are expanding into SC2 and finding that it is boosting their viewership numbers. Korea came first, and now it's the rest of the world's turn. The only thing that could reverse this tide is if all the BW pro houses switched to SC2. In a matter of a single month we would see Koreans completely monopolize the scene. I think it's probably good for Esports that Korea is lagging behind in regards to popularizing SC2, because that gives the foreign scene a chance to build up their Esports infrastructure so to speak.
E-sports as we know it now outside of Korea remains "niche", if you understand my meaning. In Korea at its peak it was mainstream, and gaming culture definitely was. Daniel Lee, the coach of eSTRO (Idra Nony ret played with/for this team) often compared it to the WWE in America. I don't think the average guy on the street would always know who Lim Yo Hwan (Boxer) was, but it had surpassed the niche level by being on two television stations ranked 7th and 10th in ratings at their peak, I believe.
Today that special era has passed. A new game will not revolutionize e-sports for the mainstream. E-sports as a niche culture works on a game-to-game basis because it is supported by players who will often purchase the next product. Did you know that the majority of spectators in Korea don't regularly play Starcraft? Think of all the fangirls; they attend as fans for their stars like Jaedong and Bisu, not because they have a passion for the game (though that may develop.)
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