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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On July 28 2011 15:56 infinitestory wrote: posts like this are exactly the reason for "hostility" Basically this. Also, like many other BW fans here, i dont care enough about SC2 enough to do things like "wish for ABC changes". Just another irrelevant thing that i cant give two faeces about. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On July 28 2011 15:36 Shatter wrote: On your first points that "BW is the best game" and "there is no better game." I'm sure a lot of people's favorite game is BW and, being their favorite, there is no better game to them personally. I don't see what is wrong with having a favorite game. This pretty much sums up what the whole BW elitism is. Yeah, no kidding BW fans think BW is awesome. If we don't, we wouldn't be wasting our time talking about it on the internet. And it's also true that both playing and watching BW require a steep learning curve. Yes, BW fans tend to assume everyone else here is a veteran of the scene. Because there are indeed few new fans given the age of the game and how difficult it is to start playing/watching. But if anyone wants to actually learn, the strategy board is filled with people willing to help one get started. | ||
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TheButtonmen
Canada1403 Posts
On July 28 2011 15:54 InFdude wrote: Also @ the guy speaking about the popularity and the prize pools and popularity of sc2.How much did all SC2 pro players win for 1 year and how much did Flash win? The total prize money for SC2 this year was over $2 million, Flash gets payed $200Kish? Not sure what that has to do with anything. The MBC change over is terrible news even though I'm not a BW fan I'd always hoped that once the GomTV/Blizzard deal lapsed that we might see some SC2 on air; suck for everyone involved in either Starcraft scene. -shrug- Don't see why the two sides need to get all up in each others faces though. | ||
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omisa
United States494 Posts
On July 28 2011 15:22 Lokian wrote: im not one to speak about evyerone that only likes bw but i was talking about bw elitists FYI. SO most of you guys are bw elitists or what? You seem to have a negative opinion of elitism; which i really dont understand. These BW 'elitists' have, over the past decade, paved the way for this new Esports fad you have cashed in upon. Dont get me wrong, nobody in the BW community is actually looking for credit of the success of its predecessor. But when people like you come into the BW forums and start dropping words like 'elitists' in a negative manner, people will get upset. Why? Because Brood War is a very tight community of people who are very passionate about the game for so many more reasons than you might believe. Its not about the 'growth of eSports'. Its not about you ladder rank that you brag to your friends about. Its not about what it will be in future years to come. Its all about what it is, not what its not. Something the SC2 scene hasnt learned. | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
On July 28 2011 15:14 Lokian wrote: Okay, after reading several posts, I think the 'resentment' (not hostility) is because of BW elitism. Derr right? lol BW elitism. BW is the best game. No other game is better than BW. Everything about BW is interesting. SC2 needs to have the same units as BW. All missing units that are from BW needs to be in SC2 for sc2 to suceed. Units in sc2 needs to have same movement as BW. sc2 needs more restraint on macro to be more 'skillful.' BW is easier to watch because ive only watched sc2 for couple of months whereas bw years. sc2 folks shouldn't say nothin about sc1 cuz they know nothin sc2 is not e-sports. korea rules. Basically, most of the complaints are not from SC2 folks, but from SC1 elitist. SO what are people talking about sc2 ppl complaining and crap? Almost everysingle sc2 balance thread had BW comparison and shit. And because sc2 competitve gaming exploded around the world, this comparison is one of the main reason since their beloved fan-site is now covered in goo. I play SC2 myself but this post is simply disgusting. You are just as bad, if not worse than the BW elitists. You have people in here giving you solid contribution for the apparent rift any even when most of them state they don't care about SC2, you have to antagnoize like this? Seriously, people like you are why there's conflict between some of the fanbase. | ||
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Kula
United States140 Posts
It can almost exclusively be traced back to the new members.. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On July 28 2011 16:20 TheButtonmen wrote: The total prize money for SC2 this year was over $2 million, Flash gets payed $200Kish? Not sure what that has to do with anything. The MBC change over is terrible news even though I'm not a BW fan I'd always hoped that once the GomTV/Blizzard deal lapsed that we might see some SC2 on air; suck for everyone involved in either Starcraft scene. -shrug- Don't see why the two sides need to get all up in each others faces though. It's physically impossible to win all $2 million of that prize though. The top tier BW guys like TBLS get a guaranteed salary equivalent to multiple yearly GSL titles and that's without bonuses. You would need to win 3-4 major SC2 tournaments a year to make the same amount as a code S BW player that slumps and doesn't win anything. | ||
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Existential
Australia2107 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On July 28 2011 15:14 Lokian wrote: Okay, after reading several posts, I think the 'resentment' (not hostility) is because of BW elitism. Derr right? lol BW elitism. BW is the best game. No other game is better than BW. Everything about BW is interesting. SC2 needs to have the same units as BW. All missing units that are from BW needs to be in SC2 for sc2 to suceed. Units in sc2 needs to have same movement as BW. sc2 needs more restraint on macro to be more 'skillful.' BW is easier to watch because ive only watched sc2 for couple of months whereas bw years. sc2 folks shouldn't say nothin about sc1 cuz they know nothin sc2 is not e-sports. korea rules. Basically, most of the complaints are not from SC2 folks, but from SC1 elitist. SO what are people talking about sc2 ppl complaining and crap? Almost everysingle sc2 balance thread had BW comparison and shit. And because sc2 competitve gaming exploded around the world, this comparison is one of the main reason since their beloved fan-site is now covered in goo. I don't even know why would you think something like that. MSL starts in about 20 minutes,if you watch a game and post a genuine question about the game/map/units whatever,you'll get a civil answer. The thing that makes BW people rage is the crusade that some of SC2 fans are on(and yes the minority),and its mission is to make everyone like SC2 by force.They cannot comprehend that someone out there is playing a game that they genuinely like no matter how old it is. These people,including you,see elitism in words when people say they really don't care about SC2,they just like BW. I really fail to see the elitism in that.I really don't give a fuck about EU basketball.I really don't.I like the NBA.But do i go around and try to convince everyone how superior the NBA is to Eurobasket?No i don't,if they like the other thing why should i go out of my way to annoy them. Same thing with BW players coming to SC2.While i will say that most people in sc2 are just naive in their wish,others are really aggressive and that annoys people. Again,I know people who's blood boils when someone sees a good Eu-basket player and automatically says:"Oh he should be in the NBA". I love sc2 but people like that are starting to get on my nerves as well. | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1353 Posts
I can't speak for everyone, but this is at least how I feel, and I suspect many of us BW 'elitists' are probably in the same boat, but that is all incidental, let me tell you my story: Firstly like many BW players, I looked forward to SC2 when it was first announced, there were probably no single group of people in the world more excited about SC2 than we were. I gave it ago during beta, it looked promising but had many shortfalls, but hey it's beta. As beta progressed my expectations dropped incrementally, maybe I was just expecting too much, maybe I should simply expect less, and so I did. I never wanted a direct port of BW with a graphics update, I no longer cared about about MBS or automine, high excitement units? I guess I can do without those too. Removal of any meaningful defenders advantage? ok sure. Heck graphical clarity didn't even matter anymore. It still failed to meet my expectations. I gave it a go, I wasn't my thing, whatever, that's the past. Then the SC2 section appeared on TL, rather annoyingly placed between general forums and the the broodwars section, well it's not my forum, their house, they can do whatever they want with it, it's less convenient now, but I can live with that. Then the foreigner scene switched over to SC2, well ok, the foreigner scene was significantly less interesting than the proscene, not a big deal. Then the SC2 tlpd, fpl, and wiki popped, well thats a bit annoying, now I have to scroll further and click more everytime I want to get anywhere. Then Blizzard sued Kespa, hey they may or may not have had the legal right of it, but they were knowingly trying to take away a great chunk of BW and offering us nothing in return. And then the SC2 trolls started appearing. Not normally a problem, trolls will be trolls, we've had protoss 1a2a3a trolls for years. But they have the temerity to tell us to switch, because BW graphics are old, or because SC2 is the future, or for ESPORTS, and to accuse us of not giving SC2 a real go before dismissing it. Well...WE ARE THE BW COMMUNITY. WE were excited about SC2 before beta was even released, and were looking at it to be the successor long before you jumped on this bandwagon, WE pioneered the market which you now claim to be advocating, and still have the most developed eSports market anywhere in the world, WE made this platform, on which you are so casually telling us that our game and community are dying, what it is today. How dare you come to our threads and our streams, and accuse us of ignorance towards your game. Of all the communities, we were the one most involved in SC2, and have given the 2 games the most thorough comparison. Trust me, we remain here only because we have made an informed choice to do so. So you see, to say I have no hostility towards SC2 Would be wishful thinking. What I have, is the restraint to simply ignore SC2 rather than going to their side of the forums to derail their topics, because frankly I don't care enough about it, or maybe i'm just more of a passive aggressive type. I accept that lots of people like SC2 better, thats a perfectly valid point of view, each to their own, but no amount of restraint stops me from being annoyed, and dare I say it hostile. You guys already have your side of the forum, if want to talk about SC2, stay on that side. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
Personally I do not give a rat's ass about SC2, and I really wish they would make a bw.teamliquid.net subdomain that just has Brood War news, forums and calendar. I can't even use the calendar here anymore, it's so flooded with every $50 prize pool SC2 tournament ever made. | ||
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sour_eraser
Canada932 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I can't entirely agree with what alot of people are saying, that it is just a response to sc2 trolls on bw topics/threads. I can't speak for everyone, but this is at least how I feel, and I suspect many of us BW 'elitists' are probably in the same boat, but that is all incidental, let me tell you my story: Firstly like many BW players, I looked forward to SC2 when it was first announced, there were probably no single group of people in the world more excited about SC2 than we were. I gave it ago during beta, it looked promising but had many shortfalls, but hey it's beta. As beta progressed my expectations dropped incrementally, maybe I was just expecting too much, maybe I should simply expect less, and so I did. I never wanted a direct port of BW with a graphics update, I no longer cared about about MBS or automine, high excitement units? I guess I can do without those too. Removal of any meaningful defenders advantage? ok sure. Heck graphical clarity didn't even matter anymore. It still failed to meet my expectations. I gave it a go, I wasn't my thing, whatever, that's the past. Then the SC2 section appeared on TL, rather annoyingly placed between general forums and the the broodwars section, well it's not my forum, their house, they can do whatever they want with it, it's less convenient now, but I can live with that. Then the foreigner scene switched over to SC2, well ok, the foreigner scene was significantly less interesting than the proscene, not a big deal. Then the SC2 tlpd, fpl, and wiki popped, well thats a bit annoying, now I have to scroll further and click more everytime I want to get anywhere. Then Blizzard sued Kespa, hey they may or may not have had the legal right of it, but they were knowingly trying to take away a great chunk of BW and offering us nothing in return. And then the SC2 trolls started appearing. Not normally a problem, trolls will be trolls, we've had protoss 1a2a3a trolls for years. But they have the temerity to tell us to switch, because BW graphics are old, or because SC2 is the future, or for ESPORTS, and to accuse us of not giving SC2 a real go before dismissing it. Well...WE ARE THE BW COMMUNITY. WE were excited about SC2 before beta was even released, and were looking at it to be the successor long before you jumped on this bandwagon, WE pioneered the market which you now claim to be advocating, and still have the most developed eSports market anywhere in the world, WE made this platform, on which you are so casually telling us that our game and community are dying, what it is today. How dare you come to our threads and our streams, and accuse us of ignorance towards your game. Of all the communities, we were the one most involved in SC2, and have given the 2 games the most thorough comparison. Trust me, we remain here only because we have made an informed choice to do so. So you see, to say I have no hostility towards SC2 Would be wishful thinking. What I have, is the restraint to simply ignore SC2 rather than going to their side of the forums to derail their topics, because frankly I don't care enough about it, or maybe i'm just more of a passive aggressive type. I accept that lots of people like SC2 better, thats a perfectly valid point of view, each to their own, but no amount of restraint stops me from being annoyed, and dare I say it hostile. You guys already have your side of the forum, if want to talk about SC2, stay on that side. Well said :D | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: + Show Spoiler + I can't entirely agree with what alot of people are saying, that it is just a response to sc2 trolls on bw topics/threads. I can't speak for everyone, but this is at least how I feel, and I suspect many of us BW 'elitists' are probably in the same boat, but that is all incidental, let me tell you my story: Firstly like many BW players, I looked forward to SC2 when it was first announced, there were probably no single group of people in the world more excited about SC2 than we were. I gave it ago during beta, it looked promising but had many shortfalls, but hey it's beta. As beta progressed my expectations dropped incrementally, maybe I was just expecting too much, maybe I should simply expect less, and so I did. I never wanted a direct port of BW with a graphics update, I no longer cared about about MBS or automine, high excitement units? I guess I can do without those too. Removal of any meaningful defenders advantage? ok sure. Heck graphical clarity didn't even matter anymore. It still failed to meet my expectations. I gave it a go, I wasn't my thing, whatever, that's the past. Then the SC2 section appeared on TL, rather annoyingly placed between general forums and the the broodwars section, well it's not my forum, their house, they can do whatever they want with it, it's less convenient now, but I can live with that. Then the foreigner scene switched over to SC2, well ok, the foreigner scene was significantly less interesting than the proscene, not a big deal. Then the SC2 tlpd, fpl, and wiki popped, well thats a bit annoying, now I have to scroll further and click more everytime I want to get anywhere. Then Blizzard sued Kespa, hey they may or may not have had the legal right of it, but they were knowingly trying to take away a great chunk of BW and offering us nothing in return. And then the SC2 trolls started appearing. Not normally a problem, trolls will be trolls, we've had protoss 1a2a3a trolls for years. But they have the temerity to tell us to switch, because BW graphics are old, or because SC2 is the future, or for ESPORTS, and to accuse us of not giving SC2 a real go before dismissing it. Well...WE ARE THE BW COMMUNITY. WE were excited about SC2 before beta was even released, and were looking at it to be the successor long before you jumped on this bandwagon, WE pioneered the market which you now claim to be advocating, and still have the most developed eSports market anywhere in the world, WE made this platform, on which you are so casually telling us that our game and community are dying, what it is today. How dare you come to our threads and our streams, and accuse us of ignorance towards your game. Of all the communities, we were the one most involved in SC2, and have given the 2 games the most thorough comparison. Trust me, we remain here only because we have made an informed choice to do so. So you see, to say I have no hostility towards SC2 Would be wishful thinking. What I have, is the restraint to simply ignore SC2 rather than going to their side of the forums to derail their topics, because frankly I don't care enough about it, or maybe i'm just more of a passive aggressive type. I accept that lots of people like SC2 better, thats a perfectly valid point of view, each to their own, but no amount of restraint stops me from being annoyed, and dare I say it hostile. You guys already have your side of the forum, if want to talk about SC2, stay on that side. I havent been with BW that long but i totally see where you are coming from man. Good post, i thoroughly enjoyed reading it  | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: You guys already have your side of the forum, if want to talk about SC2, stay on that side. Agreed with everything up to this point. I don't like this line of thinking at all, and it is exactly what people mean when they ask where all the hostility comes from. We are still one site, one TL, one community. There are lots and lots of people who are passionate about both games. Sure there are sub communities within TL, the people following BW Korea only being one of them. But topics will continue to come up in those sub communities which are of interest to everyone within the TL community as a whole. The MSL shutting down thread being the most prominent example. In that example, it was the BW Korea folks who met everyone else with nothing but hostility, and there is no excuse for it. The blame is entirely on them. I have read pretty much the entire MSL thread. Among those 1500 replies were less than handful you could rightfully characterize as "SC2 trolls". Yet everyone who even mentioned "SC2" in their posts what met with the unreasonable hostility this the OP is talking about. And as you yourself know "trolls" in every community are a fraction, a tiny, vocal minority. Yet you take these few idiots as a convenient excuse to hate the entire SC2 part of our community. You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
It doesn't help you know that what we have cherish for so long to be play down and simply be flooded with comments like " Oh msl is dead yay for sc2 we are going to have bw players coming to sc2 " . You see where i am coming too the analogy definitely reflects what the sc2 trolls are doing to us and yes bw is very dearly to me and I love it very much hence it dying is like a funeral to some one really close to me and I will seriously rage kill if given the chance to do so if they bad mannered my game . | ||
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Kolll
Germany15 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DJGnn.jpg) | ||
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Demonace34
United States2493 Posts
I wish BW had more foreign success back in the day, I might of found this great series and community earlier and could of been more of a part of it. Bottom line though, both games are amazing and all the elitists on either side should just stop the bickering. Some people love both, some people love one over the other, but we are all on the same site and have two amazing games that came from Blizzard. I think we can all be thankful of that. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote: Agreed with everything up to this point. I don't like this line of thinking at all, and it is exactly what people mean when they ask where all the hostility comes from. We are still one site, one TL, one community. There are lots and lots of people who are passionate about both games. Sure there are sub communities within TL, the people following BW Korea only being one of them. But topics will continue to come up in those sub communities which are of interest to everyone within the TL community as a whole. The MSL shutting down thread being the most prominent example. In that example, it was the BW Korea folks who met everyone else with nothing but hostility, and there is no excuse for it. The blame is entirely on them. I have read pretty much the entire MSL thread. Among those 1500 replies were less than handful you could rightfully characterize as "SC2 trolls". Yet everyone who even mentioned "SC2" in their posts what met with the unreasonable hostility this the OP is talking about. And as you yourself know "trolls" in every community are a fraction, a tiny, vocal minority. Yet you take these few idiots as a convenient excuse to hate the entire SC2 part of our community. You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become. Edit: Sawamura post similar content in his post, i didnt read it before hand. Apologies.. I ll leave my message since its still largely relevant. I disagree with the Mods' reasoning on this one. It seemed to me that people that came to the MSL threads with things like "Hopefully these guys will move on to SC2" are accepted as fine. In fact, you yourself said that theres nothing wrong with people wanting the best player to play their game. And i see where you are coming from. But i disagree with it. Following the grandmother's funeral analogy, if your friend come to your grandmother's funeral, and speak publicly in front of everyone: "Wow man, lets party hard with all that inheritance u get ok?". This idiot is only concerned about his own well-being, and being concerned with oneself isnt wrong. But there is a time and place for everything. Neither the funeral or in front of everybody that are mourning is the right place. You can easily raw relevance to the MSL thread case. If they made a thread in the SC2 forums discussing people switching over, im certain the BW crowd wouldnt mind. I dont understand the part about "one TL community". The BW section is for BW stuffs to be posted, and the SC2 section for SC2, thats my understanding. For what reason should we have people posting one game's stuffs on the other game's section is beyond me. It doesnt have anything to do with "one TL community" though. | ||
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote: You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become. I hope thats a joke rofl. This topic went several pages of decent discussion when the topic is basically "Why are you elitist jerks". | ||
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