EPTOne community. As I said there are lots of people passionate about both games, and there are topics that are of interest to both SC2 and SCBW followers, and these will be places where both will post, regardless of what forum the thread is in.
What's with all the hostility? - Page 10
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zatic
Zurich15348 Posts
One community. As I said there are lots of people passionate about both games, and there are topics that are of interest to both SC2 and SCBW followers, and these will be places where both will post, regardless of what forum the thread is in. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
And no BW fan who behaves sees it because trolling SC2 fans on the BW forum is inefficient. The reverse is also true. People in the SC2 forums don't talk about how BW is going to die because most SC2 fans don't care or are fans of BW as well. So both sides are getting constantly trolled by the other, and both think they're being harassed way way more. You'd almost think someone was TRYING to get us to hate each other. Probably some people are. They're doing a good job. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote: Agreed with everything up to this point. I don't like this line of thinking at all, and it is exactly what people mean when they ask where all the hostility comes from. We are still one site, one TL, one community. There are lots and lots of people who are passionate about both games. Sure there are sub communities within TL, the people following BW Korea only being one of them. But topics will continue to come up in those sub communities which are of interest to everyone within the TL community as a whole. The MSL shutting down thread being the most prominent example. In that example, it was the BW Korea folks who met everyone else with nothing but hostility, and there is no excuse for it. The blame is entirely on them. I have read pretty much the entire MSL thread. Among those 1500 replies were less than handful you could rightfully characterize as "SC2 trolls". Yet everyone who even mentioned "SC2" in their posts what met with the unreasonable hostility this the OP is talking about. And as you yourself know "trolls" in every community are a fraction, a tiny, vocal minority. Yet you take these few idiots as a convenient excuse to hate the entire SC2 part of our community. You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become. In a thread dedicated to quite possibly the largest and nastiest blow to professional BW of all time, SC2 posters came in in multiples talking about how this is a good thing for SC2, and that BW players should switch over, and that our game is ancient and bad. This was the vast majority of the SC2 posters in the thread, and I don't even think they were trolling -- they legitimately believed that MBCGame shutting down would be a great thing for SC2! They were cheering our blight and I don't see how you can say we were unjustified in our hostility to them in that situation. It's like if GomTV said "Sorry, we're removing the GSL," and then dozens of BW posters came into the thread about it and said "Well, this is a good thing! Now all of these SC2 players can pick up BW, which is a far superior game anyhow! As long as it helps BW, I don't care." And no single damn SC2 supporter in this entire forum would look at that with anything but disdain. And it's not just the MBCGame thread, that was just a powder keg to an already long lit fuse. We've been getting posts like this for awhile now. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:56 zatic wrote: Oh please, spare me the funeral analogies, this is completely ridiculous. People that came in that thread honestly not understanding how this impacts SC2 with no malicous intent did not deserve to be received like that. One community. As I said there are lots of people passionate about both games, and there are topics that are of interest to both SC2 and SCBW followers. How can we get long when they have different believes and ideal zatic ? Sc2 is a completely different game and is not even close to Broodwar how are you sure they are going to be in a mindset of a one community . From the previous posts we had in MBC down they are really happy to see something that is cherish in our heart die so they can reap all the good bw players from us . So it's okay to make comments and such and not to forsee what's going to happen next . Sure they are passionate enough if tl.net is actually bent on doing so to make such a community where we can get along it should have already have scrap the sc2 section and bw and make it a header that only shows STARCRAFT NO 2 and No BW and until than i don't think we can ever get along not . | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:56 zatic wrote: One community. As I said there are lots of people passionate about both games, and there are topics that are of interest to both SC2 and SCBW followers, and these will be places where both will post, regardless of what forum the thread is in. Maybe news should be cross-posted to both threads. If the two communities ever come in contact, it's so easy for trolls or even legit morons to blow the whole thing up, but there's very little news that's strictly of relevance to one community (besides tournament results I guess), and there are fans of both games that can be provoked into taking sides. On July 28 2011 17:58 TwoToneTerran wrote: It's like if GomTV said "Sorry, we're removing the GSL," and then dozens of BW posters came into the thread about it and said "Well, this is a good thing! Now all of these SC2 players can pick up BW, which is a far superior game anyhow! As long as it helps BW, I don't care." And no single damn SC2 supporter in this entire forum would look at that with anything but disdain. This actually happens. Whenever something bad happens in SC2, there are a lot of BW fans claiming vindication as to how this proves SC2 is a failure and they were right for supporting BW unlike the easily-distracted rubes. And every now and then there's one in an unrelated thread just kind of randomly declaring SC2 dead because Incontrol is fat or whatever. Luckily for SC2, we haven't received as much bad news lately, but there are probably more tournaments than the scene can support right now, and I guarantee you that if/when NASL or something gets canceled the thread will be a shitstorm. Especially now that there are a lot of sore BW fans. The MBCGame thread was a much-magnified version of grievances that had been long brooding, though. There are sufficient people on both sides that actually do want the other game to fail because then they won't have to deal with trolls anymore. The atmosphere has gotten very toxic. | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote: Agreed with everything up to this point. I don't like this line of thinking at all, and it is exactly what people mean when they ask where all the hostility comes from. But that is my point exactly, the fact of the matter is, they are right. Many of the BW community ARE hostile(myself included). What my post detailed, was not to say what we feel is not hostility but justified annoyance at sc2 trolls, quite the opposite, that the hostility that is being noticed is a very real hostility. To clarify, my post is trying to say that the idea that the hostility comes only from our response to 'sc2 trolls' is complete bs. We are actually annoyed sc2 related talk of any kind in the BW forums. That is not just a response to sc2 trolls, they might have been at the root that caused it, but it has evolved much further, what we have now is outright hostility towards sc2 talk in BW forums. And I think the only ways to stop it now, are either to let the split happen, eg so that there is somewhere for the 'hostile BW people' to retreat to where they don't have to deal with sc2, or to just simply hand out alot of bans until alot of the problem people like myself realise that our attitude is perhaps too divisive for us still to be on TL. This post for instance On July 28 2011 17:12 Hinanawi wrote: With SC2, TL's Brood War fans got drowned out. I think the site traffic went up something crazy like 10x. Personally I do not give a rat's ass about SC2, and I really wish they would make a bw.teamliquid.net subdomain that just has Brood War news, forums and calendar. I can't even use the calendar here anymore, it's so flooded with every $50 prize pool SC2 tournament ever made. That sounds like a great idea to me. It might well split the community, but I think that ship has already sailed. Perhaps to avert a full split there can just be another subsection of BW, that is like 'BW only'. Because frankly, some of us are just going to retreat further and further into subsections of the site to get away from sc2 talk, and the more restricted sections would allow those who are interested in both to interact easily with both sides of the community. | ||
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Ikonn
Netherlands1958 Posts
On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote: You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become. That's entirely unfair. It's only logical that MBCGame being dropped is going to be a frustrating topic for the fans of BW. To have a bunch of people drop in and even make harmless comments like 'this is good for SC2, right?' is only going to add to that frustration. A little common sense would be fantastic but apparently to much to ask for. I got warned for a post I made in that thread and I knew beforehand that I was going to get warned but I posted it anyway because I felt like I needed to vent and the pro-SC2 comments weren't helping. Maybe the billion reports have skewed your viewpoint but I don't see how you can make a dumb generalization like that | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 28 2011 18:11 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: That sounds like a great idea to me. It might well split the community, but I think that ship has already sailed. Perhaps to avert a full split there can just be another subsection of BW, that is like 'BW only'. Because frankly, some of us are just going to retreat further and further into subsections of the site to get away from sc2 talk, and the more restricted sections would allow those who are interested in both to interact easily with both sides of the community. Oddly enough, there's one reddit for both BW and SC2. And while it's 99% SC2, BW content that does get posted is pretty troll-free. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On July 28 2011 18:25 ShadeR wrote: Ribbon is eternally butt-hurt by Intrigue's Final Edit. I thought Intrigue is one of the "SC2 people" though? I hardly see him post in BW section anymore.. Or did i just happen to miss him all the time? o.O In any case, that FE was interesting.. But it seems like the strong language didnt allow the (very reasonable) message to get through. | ||
ImbaTosS
United Kingdom1689 Posts
 Personally, I'm always very quick to jump in to defend BW. It's only natural that the more something is threatened, the more you have to defend it. If your final mining nexus is on red health, you position your whole army defending it and place cannons like mad. You then proceed to squash everything that comes anywhere near it, with the full might of your defensive wrath. Similar thing here. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15348 Posts
On July 28 2011 18:11 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: And I think the only ways to stop it now, are either to let the split happen, eg so that there is somewhere for the 'hostile BW people' to retreat to where they don't have to deal with sc2, or to just simply hand out alot of bans until alot of the problem people like myself realise that our attitude is perhaps too divisive for us still to be on TL. Well too bad then. I know I have very little sympathy for the people with openly expressed hostility towards the majority of our community, and value the interests of people who love and follow both games, or the people who just follow one without hating the other much higher. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15348 Posts
On July 28 2011 18:00 Sawamura wrote: How can we get long when they have different believes and ideal zatic ? Sc2 is a completely different game and is not even close to Broodwar how are you sure they are going to be in a mindset of a one community . From the previous posts we had in MBC down they are really happy to see something that is cherish in our heart die so they can reap all the good bw players from us . So it's okay to make comments and such and not to forsee what's going to happen next . Sure they are passionate enough if tl.net is actually bent on doing so to make such a community where we can get along it should have already have scrap the sc2 section and bw and make it a header that only shows STARCRAFT NO 2 and No BW and until than i don't think we can ever get along not . Nobody here has different believes and ideals. All the hating comes from mutual ignorance and misunderstanding. They may be different games but I don't see how that is a reason to hate each other. Malicious and insensitve comments in the MSL thread were met with mod action, so they were not "okay". | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On July 28 2011 18:41 zatic wrote: Well too bad then. I know I have very little sympathy for the people with openly expressed hostility towards the majority of our community, and value the interests of people who love and follow both games, or the people who just follow one without hating the other much higher. I sincerely hope that "the majority of the community" means something else rather than "the SC2 crowd". Since it is a well-known fact that they are the majority. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On July 28 2011 18:57 ffreakk wrote: I sincerely hope that "the majority of the community" means something else rather than "the SC2 crowd". Since it is a well-known fact that they are the majority. It means the non trolls. | ||
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
On July 28 2011 18:41 zatic wrote: Well too bad then. I know I have very little sympathy for the people with openly expressed hostility towards the majority of our community, and value the interests of people who love and follow both games, or the people who just follow one without hating the other much higher. You described the entire bw community as angry and hateful so I guess openly expressing hostility towards the minority of the community is fine. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On July 28 2011 19:05 Brad` wrote: You described the entire bw community as angry and hateful so I guess openly expressing hostility towards the minority of the community is fine. Tl has never been a democracy wth do you want to do? Stage a Coup d'état? | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On July 28 2011 19:08 ShadeR wrote: Tl has never been a democracy wth do you want to do? Stage a Coup d'état? complain as much as we can ? | ||
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BarneyEX
Malaysia98 Posts
Despite what people call SC2 is gigantic success, I play on the SEA servers and they are practically dead. | ||
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
On July 28 2011 19:08 ShadeR wrote: Tl has never been a democracy wth do you want to do? Stage a Coup d'état? No, I want the people that ask us to not generalize the sc2 community to not generalize the bw community in the very next line. And as you yourself know "trolls" in every community are a fraction, a tiny, vocal minority. Yet you take these few idiots as a convenient excuse to hate the entire SC2 part of our community. You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become. | ||
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