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Keep any SC2 vs BW comments out of this thread. This is a thread about Brood War and Esports (Tekken Crash, Special Forces, etc) in general. If you discuss what this means for ESPORTS be sensitive about it. |
Zurich15355 Posts
On July 27 2011 23:29 Chargelot wrote:@ Zatic Show nested quote +What? What is that supposed to mean?
Can you really not see that it ist bad for SC2 that it will remain an internet only niche thing instead of (potentially) being broadcasted on a mainstream TV channel? If so there is really no point in further arguing this, and I doubt you really want to understand the impact for SC2 as you said you do. Korean TV is a niche. No, I don't want SC2 to be trapped in Korea, forever staying there, and never being popular in NA/EU/SEA/The rest of the world. I'd rather a station that broadcasts internationally (read; globally) get the rights and the chance.
OK, this thread is about MBCGame potentially closing. You asked why this would be bad for SC2's future, and people explained it to you. If you don't understand then address what people are saying and ask questions. If you simply disagree, please don't post anymore in this thread about SC2 internationally, as it is has nothing to do with the topic and is derailing the thread.
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On July 27 2011 23:32 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:24 Medrea wrote:
Craton....You cut out a chunk of what I wrote and then asked where it was... I didn't cut out anything meaningful. It's untrue your claim of what it did singlehandedly. It's hardly miraculous that it had the growth it did when it was the successor to the existing (and already very large and established) scene. And your claim that people have expectations that are "out of this world" if they don't like the game is downright insulting. But again, I ask: why bring this up? MBCGame becoming a non-gaming channel hurts all games, as no matter what the game is it will have less coverage and less market penetration. The last thing you want for any kind of media is to tuck it away. It's much more convenient to flip on a TV than to stream on a computer for the average consumer.
Global e-sports was in a real bad way since the global recession landed and since the dawn of SC2 has risen extraordinarily. You can ask teamliquid resources about how SC2 affected it. People wanted SC2 to give birth to a new sport. It has and people still complain. Whatever, typical I say.
Now for paragraph 2, which is where I related it to MBC last time. We need more video gaming channels everywhere. More is better for the medium. That being said, I think I watch less than an hour of mainstream TV a week and stick mainly to the internet, even for TV shows. This may just be a result of that rather than e-sports falling away in Korea.
Im on Brood Wars side!
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On July 27 2011 23:39 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:29 Chargelot wrote:@ Zatic What? What is that supposed to mean?
Can you really not see that it ist bad for SC2 that it will remain an internet only niche thing instead of (potentially) being broadcasted on a mainstream TV channel? If so there is really no point in further arguing this, and I doubt you really want to understand the impact for SC2 as you said you do. Korean TV is a niche. No, I don't want SC2 to be trapped in Korea, forever staying there, and never being popular in NA/EU/SEA/The rest of the world. I'd rather a station that broadcasts internationally (read; globally) get the rights and the chance. OK, this thread is about MBCGame potentially closing. You asked why this would be bad for SC2's future, and people explained it to you. If you don't understand then address what people are saying and ask questions. If you simply disagree, please don't post anymore in this thread about SC2 internationally, as it is has nothing to do with the topic and is derailing the thread.
^^ Sorry. Just kinda went with the flow of conversation.
I'm not saying MBC closing won't effect SC2 at all. I'm simply saying it won't KILL SC2 E-Sports. There are other opportunities.
Valid question: Is there anyway to save it? From what I've read they aren't 100% sure yet. Could you guys organize a community petition, or perhaps try to get some of the Koreans to spread the word to ask them not to remove all E-Sports?
Hell, integrating their new music rights into BW E-Sports could work. Music videos before/after events, exclusive new music videos to be played during an event, LIVE MUSIC FROM KPOP STARS AT EVENTS!
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NO WAY can this be real...... MBC has meant so much to me over the years. Say it ain't so Joe. Say it ain't so.
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gg BW no re
you really, truly had a good run. Thank you for laying the foundation. E-Sports would not be the same without you!
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On July 27 2011 23:30 elmoscousin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 16:00 echO [W] wrote:
Whoah. This is crazy.
What will happen to MBCGame Hero? Interested to see how this affects SCBW as well as Gom and SC2. They will become MBC's hot new boy band, of-course  But really, I'm disappointed. But at least now I guess I won't have to put up with the monthly fee...
Does that mean Shark will make a come back? We all know he should be a singer.
Seriously though this sucks, especially for someone like me who is like literally just getting into the scene.
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1019 Posts
It’s an incredible irony that SC2 players refer to BW using words such as “ancient”, “old”, the “past”, etc. because the idea of “old” and new” is the exact kind of concept that SC2 players believe that their game has moved on from; SC2 players treat SC2 as the premier esport that all other previous esports couldn’t be – the ultimate center of esports, when this is something nobody even knows yet.
The truth is that BW in Korea is the only esport in the world that to date successfully went mainstream and successfully established a sustainable system where the game has been humming for more than a decade – an eon in the world of gaming. It’s not just an e-sport. It’s a total industry just like traditional industries like automobile manufacturing or semiconductors.
So it is incredibly appalling that SC2 fans are crowing the fall of BW and the final ascension of SC2 as the world’s best esport with this news. How can it be good news for SC2 that a dedicated esports channel might possibly shut down when SC2 isn’t even close to what BW is right now?
In all honesty, don’t hold it against me that I’m predicting the future. With all the hype and excitement over SC2, SC2 as an esport will probably exist for quite a while, which is a good thing for esports. But what about 5 years from now? 10 years from now? What happens when SC3 is released? SC4? This is the nature of esports – so many games are produced so often that nothing in esports is necessarily certain.
The fact that BW actually went mainstream in Korea and – despite the huge blow it will be if MSL disappears – the fact that the Korean system has proven to be sustainable shows that BW in Korea is probably not going to disappear. There is too much investment and time that was spent into it for people to just let it shatter. I’m sure Kespa and all the other organizations are going to reorganize themselves to combat the threat of disappearance and such. Let’s try to be positive for once.
tl;dr - The nature of esports is that games come and go at a blinding pace; so who says that SC2 will be around for as long as BW? BW in Korea shows that an esport can successfully become mainstream so to say that a collapse of the BW scene means a good thing for SC2 is totally wrong if SC2 wants to become as big as BW in terms of the scale as an esport.
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such a sad day, i still remember watching my first msl =(
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Croatia9517 Posts
Saddened by the news, but even more saddened by all the SC2 talk in news like this. This thread should be ode to MBC and all the memories it has left us with, not about BW players switching to SC2 or SC2's success (seriously wtf?).
But I guess zatic is right, I can't expect moderation team to act up on perfectly fine posts (albeit quite ignorant) and just have to learn to deal with the fact that there are two opposing communities on this site.
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Champagne bottles must be popping at Blizzard HQ right now.
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But they have whole studio/infrastructure etc etc all off this gonna be transferred for music channel?
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On July 27 2011 23:40 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:32 Craton wrote:On July 27 2011 23:24 Medrea wrote:
Craton....You cut out a chunk of what I wrote and then asked where it was... I didn't cut out anything meaningful. It's untrue your claim of what it did singlehandedly. It's hardly miraculous that it had the growth it did when it was the successor to the existing (and already very large and established) scene. And your claim that people have expectations that are "out of this world" if they don't like the game is downright insulting. But again, I ask: why bring this up? MBCGame becoming a non-gaming channel hurts all games, as no matter what the game is it will have less coverage and less market penetration. The last thing you want for any kind of media is to tuck it away. It's much more convenient to flip on a TV than to stream on a computer for the average consumer. Global e-sports was in a real bad way since the global recession landed and since the dawn of SC2 has risen extraordinarily. You can ask teamliquid resources about how SC2 affected it. People wanted SC2 to give birth to a new sport. It has and people still complain. Whatever, typical I say. Now for paragraph 2, which is where I related it to MBC last time. We need more video gaming channels everywhere. More is better for the medium. That being said, I think I watch less than an hour of mainstream TV a week and stick mainly to the internet, even for TV shows. This may just be a result of that rather than e-sports falling away in Korea. Im on Brood Wars side!
We're in an age where TV viewership is on the decline, internet viewership is on the rise, and these trends are only going to continue through this generation and into the next. SC2 and E-Sports in general do not "need" TV. Watching videos on the internet isn't really a "niche" anymore.
However I don't believe this would apply to BW. Brood War needs TV to survive, something other e-sports don't.
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huh
does this mean that BW is coming to an end?
T.T
wonder what this means for SC2.... is this the beginning of more BW progamers switching over?
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! ;(...
But guys this dosent have to be the end of bw... i think it is up too us players too keep it alive? Or? lets make alot of tournies and such and try our best to keep the game alive invite everyone you know :D i dunno... just dont want bw to die 
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On July 27 2011 23:47 white_horse wrote:
It’s an incredible irony that SC2 players refer to BW using words such as “ancient”, “old”, the “past”, etc. because the idea of “old” and new” is the exact kind of concept that SC2 players believe that their game has moved on from; SC2 players treat SC2 as the premier esport that all other previous esports couldn’t be – the ultimate center of esports for the next few decades, when this is something nobody even knows yet.
The truth is that BW in Korea is the only esport in the world that to date successfully went mainstream and successfully established a sustainable system where the game has been humming for more than a decade – an eon in the world of gaming. It’s not just an e-sport. It’s a total industry just like traditional industries like automobile manufacturing or semiconductors.
So it is incredibly appalling that SC2 fans are crowing the fall of BW and the final ascension of SC2 as the world’s best esport with this news. How can it be good news for SC2 that a dedicated esports channel might possibly shut down when SC2 isn’t even close to what BW is right now?
In all honesty, don’t hold it against me that I’m predicting the future. With all the hype and excitement over SC2, SC2 as an esport will probably exist for quite a while, which is a good thing for esports. But what about 5 years from now? 10 years from now? What happens when SC3 is released? SC4? This is the nature of esports – so many games are produced so often that nothing in esports is necessarily certain.
The fact that BW actually went mainstream in Korea and – despite the huge blow it will be if MSL disappears – the fact that the Korean system has proven to be sustainable shows that BW in Korea is probably not going to disappear. There is too much investment and time that was spent into it for people to just let it shatter. I’m sure Kespa and all the other organizations are going to reorganize themselves to combat the threat of disappearance and such. Let’s try to be positive for once.
Please don't misinterpret me. I understand how huge mainstream is, and I know that mainstream is the goal for SC2 also. I meant no disrespect when I used the term "ancient". I was referring to the actual game itself, as opposed to BW E-Sports. The game is fairly old. The E-Sports industry surrounding it was apparently alive and well until this morning.
I never said or meant to imply that it would be good for the station to shut down. I only argued that it wouldn't necessarily be bad for SC2. I've heard all the counter arguments, and I'm certainly convinced it will hurt but not kill SC2 E-Sports.
My deepest apologies for any misunderstanding.
BW Fighting.
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On July 27 2011 23:43 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:39 zatic wrote:On July 27 2011 23:29 Chargelot wrote:@ Zatic What? What is that supposed to mean?
Can you really not see that it ist bad for SC2 that it will remain an internet only niche thing instead of (potentially) being broadcasted on a mainstream TV channel? If so there is really no point in further arguing this, and I doubt you really want to understand the impact for SC2 as you said you do. Korean TV is a niche. No, I don't want SC2 to be trapped in Korea, forever staying there, and never being popular in NA/EU/SEA/The rest of the world. I'd rather a station that broadcasts internationally (read; globally) get the rights and the chance. OK, this thread is about MBCGame potentially closing. You asked why this would be bad for SC2's future, and people explained it to you. If you don't understand then address what people are saying and ask questions. If you simply disagree, please don't post anymore in this thread about SC2 internationally, as it is has nothing to do with the topic and is derailing the thread. ^^ Sorry. Just kinda went with the flow of conversation. I'm not saying MBC closing won't effect SC2 at all. I'm simply saying it won't KILL SC2 E-Sports. There are other opportunities.
But it could devolve it quite a bit. The modern BW-era e-sport was salaried players (and thus consistent earnings). Yes, B-teamers sometimes got shafted. Before that, players pretty much lived from tournament to tournament hoping to win enough to keep themselves (and maybe a few people sharing a house) going.
In order for players to earn salary, there has to be enough revenue being generated for it to be worthwhile to give players that salary. Thus, with MBCGame closing (and it being one of only two significant esports channels), there is much less money to be had. Less money means less chance at salaries, which also means devolving esports back to the era where you scrounged from tournament to tournament without much security. It will probably remain a rung above what it was in the "old days," but its better for everyone if it could maintain the modern BW-era salaries.
Valid question: Is there anyway to save it? From what I've read they aren't 100% sure yet. Could you guys organize a community petition, or perhaps try to get some of the Koreans to spread the word to ask them not to remove all E-Sports?
Hell, integrating their new music rights into BW E-Sports could work. Music videos before/after events, exclusive new music videos to be played during an event, LIVE MUSIC FROM KPOP STARS AT EVENTS!
It doesn't seem like it. You can spam all you want for people [Koreans] to watch more and it might even work briefly, but if interest is significantly declining, there isn't a whole lot to be done in the long term. Having live KPop at regular events would be costly.
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EPT
