As we know from past leaks, Blizzard and KeSPA were very close to a settlement. The settlement is now official and finalized, as Blizzard, KeSPA, OGN, and MBC Game have entered into a license contract. It's a two year license contract, and it will allow OGN and MBC to broadcast Starcraft BW officially.
Naturally, the ongoing court case has been dropped.
Mike Morhaime commented that "We are glad to work with KeSPA and both broadcasting stations, who has contributed to the growth of Korean e-Sports industry", and "This is a first step towards a enduring and positive relationship, and we expect to bring exciting content wiht our new partners.". Finally, he added that "As Korea is the center of e-Sports, we will be able to contribute to global e-sports industry through this contributing relationship with KeSPA and the broadcasting stations"
KeSPA's chairman Kim Joon Ho commented that "KeSPA and all the companies that make up KeSPA are very glad to have the cooperation of the best game developer in the world, Blizzard". He noted that "All the participants went into the negotiations with passion, and the negotiations went through in a fun and open way". Furthermore, he commented that "Blizzard's devotion toward e-Sports is reflected directly into the game development. Through this positive relationship, I hope we will be able to accomplish our vision to bring e-Sports tournaments that will catch the attention of many and to grow the global e-Sports industry"
There will soon be an announcement about future StarCraft: Brood War Tournaments.
An e-Sports commentator noted that the biggest gains from this license agreement is the possibility of expanding the market into Starcraft 2, instead of just Starcraft 1.
It's likely two years because of the original Gretech agreement Blizzard has -- Gretech still holds the exclusive rights for Starcraft 2 for two more years. It'll be interesting to see how things turn out when we grow closer to the point, since the old things could easily resurface around that point depending on how BW is doing.
It'll be interesting to see if Gretech gives up the exclusivity portion of the SC2 contract over this. And this also doesn't mean GSL on OGN yet -- GSL is "exclusive" to Anibox for the next year.
Overall this could develop into something more positive and stable, depending on motives.
Great news to see everyone playing nicely now! So funny to hear both sides gushing over each other after what they WERE saying about each other not that long ago. Wonder if any stipulations were attached other than logos and money.
Thank god its officially over -.-. Hopefully this will attract good sponsors , I mean now they sponsor something 100% legal.
KOREAN OSL, I WANT IT.
Edit: Oke I calmed down now, hopefully BW is able to live on properly now.
Furthermore, he commented that "Blizzard's devotion toward e-Sports is reflected directly into the game development. Through this positive relationship, I hope we will be able to accomplish our vision to bring e-Sports tournaments that will catch the attention of many and to grow the global e-Sports industry"
after 2 years I bet they cut support, they want SC2 to grow not live in BW's shadow. I think it's nice of blizzard, but all they care about is SC2 it seems.
I'm very glad this issue is resolved for now. I hope they can do something more though to help promote starcraft (bw and sc2) and I guess we will find out in the upcoming months.
As long as this debacle is done and we as fans can enjoy some "legal" Brood War. ^^; I don't care how it happened or how "happy" they are, all I care about is that this ordeal is done and we can move on with more Starleagues, proleague and winner's league... oh and maybe any other tournament they want to host!
Man, for all of us that have endured the dozens of kespa/blizzard threads and the hundreds of negative comments from both sides, I'm glad it is finally over.
Our year long battles that probably cost us both many thousands of dollars in legal bills was really just fun negotiations lol. You can't expect em to come out and bash each other after an agreement but the wording here is a bit too far in the other direction heh.
Does this mean that OGN and MBCGame will have much less trouble finding sponsers for their tournaments? Not hating on them but MBCGame has had some unusual businesses sponser their tournaments.
On May 17 2011 08:42 Milkis wrote: "All the participants went into the negotiations with passion, and the negotiations went through in a fun and open way"
Can't blame people for being a bit jaded I suppose. But this actually seems to be great news to me...I for one was getting worried that the brood war pro-scene would die a messy, bitter death. I think its a good sign that both sides seem care (if nothing else) about appearing to be cooperative...could be so much worse.
Can there be a new bw patches from blizzard now, with this deal? I mean from a spectator point of view, bw could be improved with similar spectator UI that SC2:WoL has been given.
seems more likely sc2 events will start popping up now for kespa / ogn / mbc and maybe kespa won't block there registered teams from playing the game now which really only benefits the pros that want to be massively popular outside of korea and travel to alot of international events like flash / jaedong previously stated.
On May 17 2011 10:37 Fleuria wrote: seems more likely sc2 events will start popping up now for kespa / ogn / mbc and maybe kespa won't block there registered teams from playing the game now which really only benefits the pros that want to be massively popular outside of korea and travel to alot of international events like flash / jaedong previously stated.
Gom still holds the exclusive rights of sc2 in Korea, KeSPA/OGN/MBC only have agreements on BW.
On May 17 2011 10:37 Fleuria wrote: seems more likely sc2 events will start popping up now for kespa / ogn / mbc and maybe kespa won't block there registered teams from playing the game now which really only benefits the pros that want to be massively popular outside of korea and travel to alot of international events like flash / jaedong previously stated.
If kespa wanted to broadcast Sc2 Blizzard would have sucked their dick instead of sueing them.
Glad this worked out and they avoided a lawsuit, although as a law student I was very curious to see how it would have turned out. I think it would have been one for the history books and made it into quite a few textbooks (there were so many issues from jurisdiction to IP, contracts, software, and international law, maybe involving the WTO).
On May 17 2011 08:56 aimaimaim wrote: Now Blizzard needs to patch BW to be bug free when being played in Vista
&
Patch increase build speed time of scouts and lessen its cost to 150/100.
That would be so stupid, man... Like changing the rules in soccer. I mean, they haven't released a balance patch in over ten years. TEN YEARS. The game shouldn't be artificially changed.
On May 17 2011 08:56 aimaimaim wrote: Now Blizzard needs to patch BW to be bug free when being played in Vista
&
Patch increase build speed time of scouts and lessen its cost to 150/100.
That would be so stupid, man... Like changing the rules in soccer. I mean, they haven't released a balance patch in over ten years. TEN YEARS. The game shouldn't be artificially changed.
I'd normally agree but for quite arguably the least used unit in the entire game, I think it's a fair call to rebalance the Scout somewhat. The price is a bit too cheap but it could use some buffs in some ways
On May 17 2011 11:23 Dakkas wrote: I am also quite happy to see this over, though it was pretty hilarious to see both Blizz and Kespa talk about each other like that.
On May 17 2011 08:56 aimaimaim wrote: Now Blizzard needs to patch BW to be bug free when being played in Vista
&
Patch increase build speed time of scouts and lessen its cost to 150/100.
That would be so stupid, man... Like changing the rules in soccer. I mean, they haven't released a balance patch in over ten years. TEN YEARS. The game shouldn't be artificially changed.
I'd normally agree but for quite arguably the least used unit in the entire game, I think it's a fair call to rebalance the Scout somewhat. The price is a bit too cheap but it could use some buffs in some ways
oh god no,no balance changes,although I would like to play BW on Win7 without having my colors fucked up.
and make it easier to host games,seriously I hate having an un port-forwardable router.
Blizzard should try to get them to allow the matches to be recorded and to be allowed to be viewed by the western e-sport communities. It helps e-sports grow here in the western world.
On May 17 2011 11:11 Philo wrote: I hope KeSPA can work out a sub-license for SC2 sooner than 2 years from now. I wonder If Korean SC2 will last that long if KeSPA doesn't embrace it.
I think with the extremely rapid growth in other parts of the world sc2 korean presence isn't as big of a deal as it once was. There are 3-4 major major tournaments going on in sc2 (NASL, GSL, IPL, one could argue for WCG, Dreamhack etc etc... but those are alot shorter) and it's barley a year old. People are extremely excited about sc2 in parts other than korea.
On May 17 2011 11:33 Beneather wrote: Blizzard should try to get them to allow the matches to be recorded and to be allowed to be viewed by the western e-sport communities. It helps e-sports grow here in the western world.
Oh damn I would be so happy to have OnGamenet and MBCGame net here with Videotron. Omg
Yay! Although it's temporary this means that for the next two years we won't have to worry about OGN and MBC randomly being unable to show BW games anymore. It is a happy day.
This is actually good news for SC2, since BW won't be in direct, oppressive competition against it anymore in Korea. It is now possible for both to exist together in harmony.
This is so great! I'm so glad they managed to come to an agreement officially now :D. This must mean OSL will finally be back (I hope)! I'm super excited for the next two years, they're gonna be amazing!!
On May 17 2011 12:18 a9arnn wrote: This is so great! I'm so glad they managed to come to an agreement officially now :D. This must mean OSL will finally be back (I hope)! I'm super excited for the next two years, they're gonna be amazing!!
dude OSL was always scheduled for next month,Mystarleague followed by OSL.
On May 17 2011 12:18 a9arnn wrote: This is so great! I'm so glad they managed to come to an agreement officially now :D. This must mean OSL will finally be back (I hope)! I'm super excited for the next two years, they're gonna be amazing!!
That also corresponds with around the time Legacy of the Void will be out, doesn't it? Good, maybe SC2 will be a game worthy of challenging BW when its expansions are out.
On May 17 2011 12:37 bokeevboke wrote: FlaSh and Jeadong into SC2 now can really happen!
Why? This has nothing to do with SC2 -.- And Flash is going to play Broodwar for at least another 4 1/2 years, he said so himself. So stop writing bs.
Flash isn't going to Brood War because no one in SC2 can currently afford to pay his salary and still keep the water and electricity on in the team house. Although, 4.5 years is probably less of a definitive answer and more of a "I don't care to switch right now, so stop asking me for at least 4.5 years."
On May 17 2011 12:37 bokeevboke wrote: FlaSh and Jeadong into SC2 now can really happen!
Why? This has nothing to do with SC2 -.- And Flash is going to play Broodwar for at least another 4 1/2 years, he said so himself. So stop writing bs.
And Jaedong said he's interested in SC2 (atleast around release, when Flash made the statement you just said). But none of that's relevant now anyway. I'm happy that BW gets continued support and that this makes it easier for SC2 to grow in Korea.
On May 17 2011 09:27 moopie wrote: Glad its over, at least for the next 2 years. PR statements are laughable. Mike Morhaime and his "happy to work with KeSPA" my ass.
What do you expect him to do? Grumble publicly about it? I'm sure he was thinking in his head though "FREAKING RIOT GAMES!!"
On May 17 2011 12:51 Amaranthine wrote: I'm vey excited about the upcoming Brood War announcemenet. It may not be anything important but hopefully it is something helpful for the scene.
Could you imagine Blizzard sponsoring an OSL? That would be insane...
On May 17 2011 12:37 bokeevboke wrote: FlaSh and Jeadong into SC2 now can really happen!
Why? This has nothing to do with SC2 -.- And Flash is going to play Broodwar for at least another 4 1/2 years, he said so himself. So stop writing bs.
Flash isn't going to Brood War because no one in SC2 can currently afford to pay his salary and still keep the water and electricity on in the team house. Although, 4.5 years is probably less of a definitive answer and more of a "I don't care to switch right now, so stop asking me for at least 4.5 years."
It's Flash, so I would take that statement seriously...unless Broodwar dies before that point which is unlikely.
On May 17 2011 12:37 bokeevboke wrote: FlaSh and Jeadong into SC2 now can really happen!
Why? This has nothing to do with SC2 -.- And Flash is going to play Broodwar for at least another 4 1/2 years, he said so himself. So stop writing bs.
And Jaedong said he's interested in SC2 (atleast around release, when Flash made the statement you just said). But none of that's relevant now anyway. I'm happy that BW gets continued support and that this makes it easier for SC2 to grow in Korea.
Yeah, he said he will switch when SC2 overtakes Broodwar(in Korea) which won't happen for quite some time. It's obviously not relevant and that's why it's bothering me that people post this nonsense here(and in so many other threads). I wouldn't mind if they do it in their section, but spamming this stuff here gets annoying.
I'm really happy this is settled. Finally the community can move on. I like to think that both sides learned something from the other-- Blizzard learned that maybe it is better not to force the transition and that it is better to keep BW going as it is, and Kespa learned that maybe Blizzard isn't the enemy.
On May 17 2011 12:37 bokeevboke wrote: FlaSh and Jeadong into SC2 now can really happen!
Why? This has nothing to do with SC2 -.- And Flash is going to play Broodwar for at least another 4 1/2 years, he said so himself. So stop writing bs.
Flash isn't going to Brood War because no one in SC2 can currently afford to pay his salary and still keep the water and electricity on in the team house. Although, 4.5 years is probably less of a definitive answer and more of a "I don't care to switch right now, so stop asking me for at least 4.5 years."
It's Flash, so I would take that statement seriously...unless Broodwar dies before that point which is unlikely.
On May 17 2011 12:37 bokeevboke wrote: FlaSh and Jeadong into SC2 now can really happen!
Why? This has nothing to do with SC2 -.- And Flash is going to play Broodwar for at least another 4 1/2 years, he said so himself. So stop writing bs.
And Jaedong said he's interested in SC2 (atleast around release, when Flash made the statement you just said). But none of that's relevant now anyway. I'm happy that BW gets continued support and that this makes it easier for SC2 to grow in Korea.
Yeah, he said he will switch when SC2 overtakes Broodwar(in Korea) which won't happen for quite some time. It's obviously not relevant and that's why it's bothering me that people post this nonsense here(and in so many other threads). I wouldn't mind if they do it in their section, but spamming this stuff here gets annoying.
I could see him splitting his time between the two if the money is good enough in SC2 to justify the occasional tournament.. But I don't see him switching full on any time soon.
On May 17 2011 08:46 emc wrote: after 2 years I bet they cut support, they want SC2 to grow not live in BW's shadow. I think it's nice of blizzard, but all they care about is SC2 it seems.
Who can blame them, they're not exactly getting a money cow from selling BW (yeah I know it still sells in korea but in the rest of the whole wide world... not so much)
On May 17 2011 13:10 Highways wrote: I don't know why everyone is so excited, BW still would've continued even if they didn't come up with an agreement.
What would be exciting is if OGN/MBC started their own SC2 leagues.
the only problem i see is that they won't be taking over kespa-ran stuff on the schedule (so osl/msl/pl/sf pl)
hopefully though, we'll see small tournaments being run in timeslots that are used for games like kartrider, sudden attack etc.
On May 17 2011 08:56 aimaimaim wrote: Now Blizzard needs to patch BW to be bug free when being played in Vista
&
Patch increase build speed time of scouts and lessen its cost to 150/100.
To be fair if the bugs are related to colours presented on screen if you close the explorer.exe process the issues go away
Side note: nice to see they worked it all out and its nice BW is licensed for 2 years. That said a 2 year license doesnt mean a 2 year guarantee that BW will still be as prominent as it is now. We can only hope BW and SC2 can coexist since that would be the best thing for esports at least until SC2 is ironed out a bit more and becomes less volatile than it is now
On May 17 2011 08:56 aimaimaim wrote: Now Blizzard needs to patch BW to be bug free when being played in Vista
&
Patch increase build speed time of scouts and lessen its cost to 150/100.
It is a a LOT of work and a very expensive process to patch a game as old as BW, as not that many people who made the game still work in that capacity.
On May 17 2011 08:46 emc wrote: after 2 years I bet they cut support, they want SC2 to grow not live in BW's shadow. I think it's nice of blizzard, but all they care about is SC2 it seems.
The dispute is finally over, wow, now looking back the day that all this shit started feels so far away. And I'm more surprised at how simple the ending sounded (seemingly). Really didn't worth the drag for both sides. They both took unnecessary damage and left us fans with a long enduring period of painful wait and useless discussions.
I'm not sure if I want kespa to do SC2. That would kill sc1 for sure. No doubt. GSL hasn't killed BW because no one really watches it. Just listen to the cheers at GSL and Proleague. Not that many screaming fans in GSL. It also helps that BW's team focused aspects makes it more stable and interesting to watch. If all the things that made BW is absorbed by SC2, it will die.
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
deffiantly a step in the right direction, but no one knows whats been paid in the background. But still be great of they do a starcraft 2 league in the future.
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
like 1800-2000 days
Doesn't Flash make a $250,000 salary, no counting cash and prizes from tournaments. TSL just announced that some of their best players are now making $30,000. Regardless of game fanboyism, from a business perspective Flash would be nuts to give up on the gravy train he has worked his way into.
On May 17 2011 08:42 Milkis wrote: "All the participants went into the negotiations with passion, and the negotiations went through in a fun and open way"
Fun fun fun fun fun! We so excited!
Go BW!!!
seriously, the tone attitude presented in these meetings sounds like slumperparties xD
Well KeSPA did say there that they are planing to go into Sc2 as BW has no chance to become a global e-sport again. I guess its possible that he is delusional but I doubt it. I just hope that Blizzard don't give "exclusive" contracts to anyone.
On May 17 2011 08:46 Spica wrote: Hahahah what fluff. Makes me wanna puke from reading all of it.
Glad to see everything finalized and settled though! Yeeeahhh Brood War! \o/
haha my sentiments exactly. I hope Broodwar can still extend beyond the two years though, but I'm glad its settled for now and that leagues can go unhindered(lolwat they were anyway).
Preferably I'd want BW to remain an independent scene at least until both SC2 Expansions are out and final balance issues are done. (5years at the going rate)
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
like 1800-2000 days
Doesn't Flash make a $250,000 salary, no counting cash and prizes from tournaments. TSL just announced that some of their best players are now making $30,000. Regardless of game fanboyism, from a business perspective Flash would be nuts to give up on the gravy train he has worked his way into.
Besides... I remember Jaedong saying when his parents put him up for free agency that money had nothing to do with the fact that he was playing Starcraft and that he was in Hwaseung OZ. I really respect him for that. He loves the game and he loves his team.
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
like 1800-2000 days
Doesn't Flash make a $250,000 salary, no counting cash and prizes from tournaments. TSL just announced that some of their best players are now making $30,000. Regardless of game fanboyism, from a business perspective Flash would be nuts to give up on the gravy train he has worked his way into.
Besides... I remember Jaedong saying when his parents put him up for free agency that money had nothing to do with the fact that he was playing Starcraft and that he was in Hwaseung OZ. I really respect him for that. He loves the game and he loves his team.
I doubt he has to complain about his salary though ^^.
To be honest I got more respect for the guys that are progamer and dont get paid as much as the top.
after all things they called each other when the case was still hot i just had to laugh at Kim Joon Ho's comment: "...KeSPA are very glad to have the cooperation of the best game developer in the world, Blizzard" even though...good to see that it's finally over and both are pulling on the same rope again
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
like 1800-2000 days
Doesn't Flash make a $250,000 salary, no counting cash and prizes from tournaments. TSL just announced that some of their best players are now making $30,000. Regardless of game fanboyism, from a business perspective Flash would be nuts to give up on the gravy train he has worked his way into.
Besides... I remember Jaedong saying when his parents put him up for free agency that money had nothing to do with the fact that he was playing Starcraft and that he was in Hwaseung OZ. I really respect him for that. He loves the game and he loves his team.
I doubt he has to complain about his salary though ^^.
To be honest I got more respect for the guys that are progamer and dont get paid as much as the top.
No of course! I think he makes 200 k in base salary. I can't remember where I read it though.
Very very brilliant news, i'm happy that it's over too, But all in all i think Blizzard comes out as the losers in this case and had to kind of give in to KeSPA because Blizzard's reputation in South Korea simply just were getting worse and worse, along that many didn't like star2 and now they would defintely not play star2 when Blizzard acted like that. Well we'll see now that everything works out if OGN MBC and Kespa will take star2 to it self at some point
On May 17 2011 19:21 Copymizer wrote: Very very brilliant news, i'm happy that it's over too, But all in all i think Blizzard comes out as the losers in this case and had to kind of give in to KeSPA because Blizzard's reputation in South Korea simply just were getting worse and worse, along that many didn't like star2 and now they would defintely not play star2 when Blizzard acted like that. Well we'll see now that everything works out if OGN MBC and Kespa will take star2 to it self at some point
From what I read here on TL, a lot of the korean netizens were siding with Blizzard, not KeSPA. I could be wrong since all my knowledge is secondhand, but I don't think Blizzard's rep was getting worse.
silly Blizzard for giving exclusivity to Gretech! They're probably kicking themselves now that the opportunity has arisen to have TELEVISED tournaments on OGN and MBC.... which would put them worlds ahead IMO. Gotta wait 2 years now before even considering that option, at which time we will see if SC2 has kept up with the passion of BW.
Anyways, great news for e-sports in general, and I'm mostly excited at the fact that BW will live on! LONG LIVE BW!!! I really don't mind sc2 thriving at all, so long as BW keeps on going
Great news, though expected of course after all the leaks recently
I don't understand all the comments about "omg, so much bullshit and clichés!!!!1111111one". - What did you expect, KeSPA's chairman coming out hot saying: "Yoyoyo bitches, after some fucking around we have finally agreed with the little blizzard-hoes, keep it real, contract for two years yo!"??? Its business, and therefor also treated as such.
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
like 1800-2000 days
Doesn't Flash make a $250,000 salary, no counting cash and prizes from tournaments. TSL just announced that some of their best players are now making $30,000. Regardless of game fanboyism, from a business perspective Flash would be nuts to give up on the gravy train he has worked his way into.
Besides... I remember Jaedong saying when his parents put him up for free agency that money had nothing to do with the fact that he was playing Starcraft and that he was in Hwaseung OZ. I really respect him for that. He loves the game and he loves his team.
I doubt he has to complain about his salary though ^^.
To be honest I got more respect for the guys that are progamer and dont get paid as much as the top.
No of course! I think he makes 200 k in base salary. I can't remember where I read it though.
yeah sounds familiar, but with winnings and incentives it goes up to like 300k
On May 17 2011 19:28 Tyree wrote: Blizzard did not lose anything, they actually gained and got everything they wanted. KeSPA gets to do their thing and everyone eventually has won.
Keep telling yourself that.
Blizzard lost the case by every means possible. They did not get everything they wanted -- for example, KeSPA is allowed to resell licenses all they want without any restrictions.
That is actually good news for all of you since it means that KeSPA is allowed to sell streams so we might be able to get better streams again.
From what I read here on TL, a lot of the korean netizens were siding with Blizzard, not KeSPA. I could be wrong since all my knowledge is secondhand, but I don't think Blizzard's rep was getting worse.
They weren't siding with anyone, they just dislike KeSPA. Doesn't mean they think Blizzard is "right" by any means. But yeah, Blizzard's rep wasn't getting worse by any means.
On May 17 2011 13:10 Highways wrote: I don't know why everyone is so excited, BW still would've continued even if they didn't come up with an agreement.
What would be exciting is if OGN/MBC started their own SC2 leagues.
the only problem i see is that they won't be taking over kespa-ran stuff on the schedule (so osl/msl/pl/sf pl)
hopefully though, we'll see small tournaments being run in timeslots that are used for games like kartrider, sudden attack etc.
Unlikely, since OGN i know for a fact is getting paid to hold kartrider leagues by Nexon. Plus, won't happen for a year or so anyway.
On May 17 2011 13:10 Highways wrote: I don't know why everyone is so excited, BW still would've continued even if they didn't come up with an agreement.
What would be exciting is if OGN/MBC started their own SC2 leagues.
the only problem i see is that they won't be taking over kespa-ran stuff on the schedule (so osl/msl/pl/sf pl)
hopefully though, we'll see small tournaments being run in timeslots that are used for games like kartrider, sudden attack etc.
Unlikely, since OGN i know for a fact is getting paid to hold kartrider leagues by Nexon. Plus, won't happen for a year or so anyway.
Sudden Attack iirc is pretty popular too.
any idea what will happen with wcg then? will ogn be forced to delegate broadcasting the sc2 portion of the competition to gretech or what?
if mc jun and co did sc2 commentary i'd start listening to them over tastosis =[.
Blizzard lost the case by every means possible. They did not get everything they wanted -- for example, KeSPA is allowed to resell licenses all they want without any restrictions.
That is actually good news for all of you since it means that KeSPA is allowed to sell streams so we might be able to get better streams again.
I have to say this... not this argument again. Makes me feel like if we someday end world hunger and get world peace, there's gonna be some smartass going on both sides: well we got everything we wanted and you didn't!
Great news by all counts. Thx for the translation.
On May 17 2011 13:10 Highways wrote: I don't know why everyone is so excited, BW still would've continued even if they didn't come up with an agreement.
What would be exciting is if OGN/MBC started their own SC2 leagues.
the only problem i see is that they won't be taking over kespa-ran stuff on the schedule (so osl/msl/pl/sf pl)
hopefully though, we'll see small tournaments being run in timeslots that are used for games like kartrider, sudden attack etc.
Unlikely, since OGN i know for a fact is getting paid to hold kartrider leagues by Nexon. Plus, won't happen for a year or so anyway.
Sudden Attack iirc is pretty popular too.
any idea what will happen with wcg then? will ogn be forced to delegate broadcasting the sc2 portion of the competition to gretech or what?
if mc jun and co did sc2 commentary i'd start listening to them over tastosis =[.
I completely forgot about the WCG debacle,yes what will happen now??
For those saying this has nothing to do with SC2: It's no coincidence that this contract is up for renegotiation (won't that be fun) right around the time GOM's exclusive SC2 license expires. It's possible Kespa could end up in charge of the Korean SC2 scene in a few years.
On May 17 2011 08:56 aimaimaim wrote: Now Blizzard needs to patch BW to be bug free when being played in Vista
&
Patch increase build speed time of scouts and lessen its cost to 150/100.
It is a a LOT of work and a very expensive process to patch a game as old as BW, as not that many people who made the game still work in that capacity.
Or so Ive been told, and it makes sense I think.
Looking at what Blizz has done to Diablo 2 in the past few years, no sane person would want them anywhere near "balancing" or bug fixing of the game..
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
6 years tops.
Yeah, would be about the age of Nada and July then, ready for pre-retirement career switch when they cant keep up with the young guys any more.
lol. What amazing PR responses. Still, gotta be happy this shit finally stopped, even though it seemed like OSL/MSL/SPL didn't give a shit, just continued their tournaments anyway
On May 17 2011 08:56 aimaimaim wrote: Now Blizzard needs to patch BW to be bug free when being played in Vista
&
Patch increase build speed time of scouts and lessen its cost to 150/100.
It is a a LOT of work and a very expensive process to patch a game as old as BW, as not that many people who made the game still work in that capacity.
Or so Ive been told, and it makes sense I think.
Looking at what Blizz has done to Diablo 2 in the past few years, no sane person would want them anywhere near "balancing" or bug fixing of the game..
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
6 years tops.
Yeah, would be about the age of Nada and July then, ready for pre-retirement career switch when they cant keep up with the young guys any more.
On May 17 2011 22:16 Ribbon wrote: For those saying this has nothing to do with SC2: It's no coincidence that this contract is up for renegotiation (won't that be fun) right around the time GOM's exclusive SC2 license expires. It's possible Kespa could end up in charge of the Korean SC2 scene in a few years.
Hmm?Gretech still has exclusive rights for 2 years, I am missing something in your post.
On May 17 2011 22:16 Ribbon wrote: For those saying this has nothing to do with SC2: It's no coincidence that this contract is up for renegotiation (won't that be fun) right around the time GOM's exclusive SC2 license expires. It's possible Kespa could end up in charge of the Korean SC2 scene in a few years.
Hmm?Gretech still has exclusive rights for 2 years, I am missing something in your post.
KeSPA license for BW expired in 2 years, same with gom exclusive rights over sc2.
I hope that SC2 gets shown on tv at some point. I think that'll it'll be pretty big in Korea, if it does. I mean they have Boxer And Nada to show, so it's instand win, and we all know that Boxer is the biggest name in starcraft ever, and perhaps even in esports. Oh and lets not forget july to... sooo I think it'll be easy for the koreans to embrace SC2, if it gets on tv.
On May 17 2011 08:46 emc wrote: after 2 years I bet they cut support, they want SC2 to grow not live in BW's shadow. I think it's nice of blizzard, but all they care about is SC2 it seems.
Blizzard passionately cares about all its titles, but things have to move on after some point. This doesn't mean BW needs to be forgotten, but that since SC2 is the newest game in the series, it naturally holds the priority in terms of its development in e-sports scene with respect to Blizzard. I think this is quite normal, and interpreting it as "Blizzard only cares about SC2" is just an elitist and "all for me" point of view.
On May 17 2011 10:26 Boblion wrote: Bw or Sc2, one of them have to die in Korea. Games are too close to coexist, look what has happened to the foreign scene.
I wonder if Kespa will drop bw now. Or maybe they will just make a tourney broadcasted by OGN or MBC and look at the ratings first.
I think both of the games can coexist, at least in Korea. Blizzard passionately cares about all its titles, but things have to move on after some point. This doesn't mean BW needs to be forgotten, but that since SC2 is the newest game in the series, it naturally holds the priority in terms of its development in e-sports scene with respect to Blizzard. But I mean there are a ton of ppl who watch and love BW in Korea, and also SC2 is growing each day. So I believe they can coexist.
On May 17 2011 23:37 MadNeSs wrote: I hope that SC2 gets shown on tv at some point. I think that'll it'll be pretty big in Korea, if it does. I mean they have Boxer And Nada to show, so it's instand win, and we all know that Boxer is the biggest name in starcraft ever, and perhaps even in esports. Oh and lets not forget july to... sooo I think it'll be easy for the koreans to embrace SC2, if it gets on tv.
The GSL is on channel 201 all the time (I don't think live though) and has been for months. I made thread about this that just got savagely attacked by SC2 vs Broodwar arguments and then shut down so i don't blame anyone outside of Korea for not knowing.
What might make a difference though is that not every one who is into RTS gaming enough to watch it on TV is pissed of that Blizzard seems to be trying to shut down the existing very popular Broodwar scene. That might make people more open minded to watch SC2 as well as Broodwar. So we will have to see. Still it can't be bad for either game and hopefully means we can have a little bit less hatred from the 2 communities toward each other.
On May 18 2011 00:53 atarianimo wrote: Could GOM sell a SC2 license to the other leagues, or do they just have the exclusive rights to their own league?
GOM can sub-license anyone who wants to start a league in Korea. LG has their own running right now and I assume should OGN or MBC wish to do the same they can. AFAIK Anibox only has exclusive rights to the GSL so the GSL at least stays there for a year but OGN/MBC can run their own on their own channels should they want to.
On May 17 2011 13:10 Highways wrote: I don't know why everyone is so excited, BW still would've continued even if they didn't come up with an agreement.
What would be exciting is if OGN/MBC started their own SC2 leagues.
the only problem i see is that they won't be taking over kespa-ran stuff on the schedule (so osl/msl/pl/sf pl)
hopefully though, we'll see small tournaments being run in timeslots that are used for games like kartrider, sudden attack etc.
Unlikely, since OGN i know for a fact is getting paid to hold kartrider leagues by Nexon. Plus, won't happen for a year or so anyway.
Sudden Attack iirc is pretty popular too.
Any idea as to why they're not replacing Sudden Attack with CS 1.6? Did Valve object? They've got a really good team in Korea (two actually) and there are several other teams in Asia (mainly China). Sudden Attack looks extremely shallow compared to CS, imo.
On May 18 2011 02:03 maybenexttime wrote: Hmm, why didn't CS catch on then? Pretty bizarre.
If i'm not mistaken the CS scene was very popular in Korea too, but unlike Blizzard, Valve went hardcore with their copyright so the Korean just dropped it and created sudden attack as a replacement.
Though this isin't the most momentous thing, it's still nice to feel relief from those initial stresses when this whole ordeal all started, what not knowing if BW would be allowed to continue as we know it or if they'd be forced to stop it all together.
In any case, I'm glad to see it resolved, and now that they're in an agreement I wouldn't feel all that bad if OGN/MBC got into SC2
On May 17 2011 08:56 aimaimaim wrote: Now Blizzard needs to patch BW to be bug free when being played in Vista
&
Patch increase build speed time of scouts and lessen its cost to 150/100.
It is a a LOT of work and a very expensive process to patch a game as old as BW, as not that many people who made the game still work in that capacity.
Or so Ive been told, and it makes sense I think.
Looking at what Blizz has done to Diablo 2 in the past few years, no sane person would want them anywhere near "balancing" or bug fixing of the game..
On May 17 2011 15:39 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On May 17 2011 15:25 AndAgain wrote: So how many days (weeks?) from now can I expect Flash/JD/Bisu to start competing in SC2? About time for the big boys to show us how to play.
6 years tops.
Yeah, would be about the age of Nada and July then, ready for pre-retirement career switch when they cant keep up with the young guys any more.
Hammerdins .. anyone :D
Hammerdins have been the best paladin build since 1.00 so thats not a patching issue, but blizzard patching in general seems to be somewhat inefficient for esports.
wow that sounds ultra strange if blizzard and kespa say something nice about each other. but good to see broodwar will continue without any more problems.
Things go on as they've been going, except without a sword of damocles over the BW scene. Kespa and Blizzard pretend to be BFFs while secrectly hating each other. I think this board probably gets that better than I can explain, so I won't bother telling you all things you know
What this means for SC2:
GSL stays on Anibox for at least 1 year. Chance of OS2L at MS2L increases dramatically. While GOM holds the rights to SC2, they have a strong incentive to allow other big tournaments (especially if they're not quite as big as the GSL). The Korean SC2 teams are getting ornery that washing out in the ro32 of the GSL gives you nothing to do for a whole month, and foreign players are openly saying they'll refuse a free Code A or even Code S spot because moving to Korea means being a Starcraft hermit because there's only one game in town.
Later this week, GOM is going to announce a big change of format to allow for the MLG/GSL partnership, and an expanded role for the team leagues (Yay!). It's not impossible, but it is unlikely, that the SC2 fallout of the deal will come out this week (Because it might have been part of the deal). More likely later this year we'll see the real fallout.
In terms of who "won", Kespa got most of what they wanted, but Blizzard/Gretech benefits more from warm relationships between the SC2 and BW community. I don't think anyone loses, though.
Glad that Blizzard and Kespa were finally able to put a stop to the bickering for a while and come to terms on this deal... hopefully it will benefit SC2 in some way, but I just don't see Kespa supporting a game that isn't very popular right now in Korea when they are trying to keep BW running for years to come.
I love how KeSPa and Blizzard were basically killing themselves and now they are all like "I love him, he is the best of the world, this guy is the man"
jokes aside, Awesome to hear that. Looking forward for two years from today to see what will happen once Gretech's contract expires and KeSPa can take SC2 as well.
Finally, the eSports chaebol recognizes Blizzard's IP rights, and Blizzard recognizes the Dokdo is Korean territory. Those were some rough negotiations.
On May 17 2011 12:37 bokeevboke wrote: FlaSh and Jeadong into SC2 now can really happen!
Why? This has nothing to do with SC2 -.- And Flash is going to play Broodwar for at least another 4 1/2 years, he said so himself. So stop writing bs.
Flash isn't going to Brood War because no one in SC2 can currently afford to pay his salary and still keep the water and electricity on in the team house. Although, 4.5 years is probably less of a definitive answer and more of a "I don't care to switch right now, so stop asking me for at least 4.5 years."
It's Flash, so I would take that statement seriously...unless Broodwar dies before that point which is unlikely.
On May 17 2011 12:46 Valikyr wrote:
On May 17 2011 12:42 Lucumo wrote:
On May 17 2011 12:37 bokeevboke wrote: FlaSh and Jeadong into SC2 now can really happen!
Why? This has nothing to do with SC2 -.- And Flash is going to play Broodwar for at least another 4 1/2 years, he said so himself. So stop writing bs.
And Jaedong said he's interested in SC2 (atleast around release, when Flash made the statement you just said). But none of that's relevant now anyway. I'm happy that BW gets continued support and that this makes it easier for SC2 to grow in Korea.
Yeah, he said he will switch when SC2 overtakes Broodwar(in Korea) which won't happen for quite some time. It's obviously not relevant and that's why it's bothering me that people post this nonsense here(and in so many other threads). I wouldn't mind if they do it in their section, but spamming this stuff here gets annoying.
I could see him splitting his time between the two if the money is good enough in SC2 to justify the occasional tournament.. But I don't see him switching full on any time soon.
You can't play BW part time and be the best in the world.
On May 18 2011 05:28 Ribbon wrote: What these means for BW
Things go on as they've been going, except without a sword of damocles over the BW scene. Kespa and Blizzard pretend to be BFFs while secrectly hating each other. I think this board probably gets that better than I can explain, so I won't bother telling you all things you know
What this means for SC2:
GSL stays on Anibox for at least 1 year. Chance of OS2L at MS2L increases dramatically. While GOM holds the rights to SC2, they have a strong incentive to allow other big tournaments (especially if they're not quite as big as the GSL). The Korean SC2 teams are getting ornery that washing out in the ro32 of the GSL gives you nothing to do for a whole month, and foreign players are openly saying they'll refuse a free Code A or even Code S spot because moving to Korea means being a Starcraft hermit because there's only one game in town.
Later this week, GOM is going to announce a big change of format to allow for the MLG/GSL partnership, and an expanded role for the team leagues (Yay!). It's not impossible, but it is unlikely, that the SC2 fallout of the deal will come out this week (Because it might have been part of the deal). More likely later this year we'll see the real fallout.
In terms of who "won", Kespa got most of what they wanted, but Blizzard/Gretech benefits more from warm relationships between the SC2 and BW community. I don't think anyone loses, though.
Why would MSL/OSL for StarCraft2 ever happen? SC2 is popular among foreigners, but foreigners aren't watching Korean cable-TV. Blizzard would have to give them a lot of incentive (or force them) if they were gonna put SC2 on TV.
The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all? Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
On May 18 2011 08:01 infinity2k9 wrote: The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all? Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
Also, SC2 players aren't doing cosplay and if your players aren't doing cosplay, no one will watch your game. Let them try what Leta did and we'll talk about the future of SC2 as an e-sport.
On May 18 2011 05:28 Ribbon wrote: What these means for BW
Things go on as they've been going, except without a sword of damocles over the BW scene. Kespa and Blizzard pretend to be BFFs while secrectly hating each other. I think this board probably gets that better than I can explain, so I won't bother telling you all things you know
What this means for SC2:
GSL stays on Anibox for at least 1 year. Chance of OS2L at MS2L increases dramatically. While GOM holds the rights to SC2, they have a strong incentive to allow other big tournaments (especially if they're not quite as big as the GSL). The Korean SC2 teams are getting ornery that washing out in the ro32 of the GSL gives you nothing to do for a whole month, and foreign players are openly saying they'll refuse a free Code A or even Code S spot because moving to Korea means being a Starcraft hermit because there's only one game in town.
Later this week, GOM is going to announce a big change of format to allow for the MLG/GSL partnership, and an expanded role for the team leagues (Yay!). It's not impossible, but it is unlikely, that the SC2 fallout of the deal will come out this week (Because it might have been part of the deal). More likely later this year we'll see the real fallout.
In terms of who "won", Kespa got most of what they wanted, but Blizzard/Gretech benefits more from warm relationships between the SC2 and BW community. I don't think anyone loses, though.
Here is what I don't get, about your post(s)
BW is much more popular then SC2 right now in Korea. MBC and OGN have a hard time getting by(atleast, I know MBC had trouble in the past I believe).
BW I believe(correct me if I am wrong) is one of the or the most succesfull E-sport game for them and it will attract the most viewers and sponsors.
BW is aired during prime-time, perhaps not during 13:00 KST, when Proleague hits but on playoffs, MSL, OSL it is mostly during 18:00-20:00 KST, which means that depending on the games it can go on to well a fairly late time, primetime.
MSL and OSL are not easy to maintain as it is, what makes you think that if the most popular program for E-sports can just barely get by, that they would invest in SC2?.
SC2 is not really thriving at all, taking it up would be a huge risk because it would go at the cost of other programs and the GSL production costs from what I can see are large, they seem to have better equipment then even the people at PL(I could be wrong), with dem pyrotechnics and all that.
Risk/reward and costs?Perhaps they will pick up SC2 once it grows larger, but not really anytime soon imo.
On May 18 2011 05:28 Ribbon wrote: What these means for BW
Things go on as they've been going, except without a sword of damocles over the BW scene. Kespa and Blizzard pretend to be BFFs while secrectly hating each other. I think this board probably gets that better than I can explain, so I won't bother telling you all things you know
What this means for SC2:
GSL stays on Anibox for at least 1 year. Chance of OS2L at MS2L increases dramatically. While GOM holds the rights to SC2, they have a strong incentive to allow other big tournaments (especially if they're not quite as big as the GSL). The Korean SC2 teams are getting ornery that washing out in the ro32 of the GSL gives you nothing to do for a whole month, and foreign players are openly saying they'll refuse a free Code A or even Code S spot because moving to Korea means being a Starcraft hermit because there's only one game in town.
Later this week, GOM is going to announce a big change of format to allow for the MLG/GSL partnership, and an expanded role for the team leagues (Yay!). It's not impossible, but it is unlikely, that the SC2 fallout of the deal will come out this week (Because it might have been part of the deal). More likely later this year we'll see the real fallout.
In terms of who "won", Kespa got most of what they wanted, but Blizzard/Gretech benefits more from warm relationships between the SC2 and BW community. I don't think anyone loses, though.
Why would MSL/OSL for StarCraft2 ever happen? SC2 is popular among foreigners, but foreigners aren't watching Korean cable-TV. Blizzard would have to give them a lot of incentive (or force them) if they were gonna put SC2 on TV.
Expanding their products? That and they have a quite a few number of Korean players that are arguably underplayed? Like he said get knocked out of GSL and you have a full month of twiddling your thumbs. It's only a possibility but if you were an Exec for OGN or MBC, you're only worried about having content and having viewers, if it means having more shows to fill up slots you would run re-runs or lame ducks... Why not?
NOTE: I'm NOT saying that the BW content being broadcast now is lame, I'm just saying they possibly have timeslots to fill and branching out into other products is usually a good way to keep a healthy network.
Risk/reward and costs?Perhaps they will pick up SC2 once it grows larger, but not really anytime soon.
*Shrug* to this. The risk is relatively low considering how many players consider themselves underplayed so the cost wouldn't be very high. The real risk is running friction with their current viewer base, so my guess is that if they plan on getting involved, they would just ease into it over time. God knows how long that might be.
On May 18 2011 08:01 infinity2k9 wrote: The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
I said....nothing of the sort. OS2L, if it even happened, would be smaller than the OSL. Significantly, in fact. Even if it continues to grow, SC2 will be a side-show to BW in Korea for at least 5 years, and even that's pretty fucking optimistic (like, Maybe it Flash admitted to paying his opponents to throw games to him using Colombian drug money, or other such major scandal. Maybe.). I'm just saying the too can co-exist. I never said they'd be equal, and I certainly never said SC2 would overtake BW in Korea in the near future.
Korean SC2 is in desperate need of more tournaments than the GSL, or else it's going to collapse. GOM is trying to get more foreign players to go to Korea for tournaments, but it's literally not worth it for foreign players to go to Korea because the foreign scene is just as good for prizes. Preventing SC2 from collapsing is a major goal of Blizzard, and it's almost certainly a factor in making the deal.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all?
You could keep it profitable by lowering the budget. There's a lot less money in SC2, which means you don't need as much ad revenue to run it profitably. It doesn't have to be as big as the normal OSL. It'd be stupid to make it as big as the OSL right now, in fact. Being optimistic that SC2 can grow doesn't make me blind to the reality that it's not anywhere near Brood War (even if it were an objectively better game right now, and it isn't, Brood War is also firmly ensconced in Korean culture).
(I think OnGameNet was making OS2L rumblings at some point, but they might be soured on that now)
But, y'know, it'd probably be bigger than BW 2v2s were.
Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
And the contract expiring at the same time as GOM's is a coincidence? Even if Kespa isn't thinking it, Blizzard most certainly is.
tl;dr: Blizzard REALLY REALLY NEEDS more SC2 tournaments in Korea, and that's absolutely a big part of the reason they gave in to Kespa, even though they're obviously not going to say it.
On May 18 2011 08:01 infinity2k9 wrote: The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
I said....nothing of the sort. OS2L, if it even happened, would be smaller than the OSL. Significantly, in fact. Even if it continues to grow, SC2 will be a side-show to BW in Korea for at least 5 years, and even that's pretty fucking optimistic (like, Maybe it Flash admitted to paying his opponents to throw games to him using Colombian drug money, or other such major scandal. Maybe.). I'm just saying the too can co-exist. I never said they'd be equal, and I certainly never said SC2 would overtake BW in Korea in the near future.
Korean SC2 is in desperate need of more tournaments than the GSL, or else it's going to collapse. GOM is trying to get more foreign players to go to Korea for tournaments, but it's literally not worth it for foreign players to go to Korea because the foreign scene is just as good for prizes. Preventing SC2 from collapsing is a major goal of Blizzard, and it's almost certainly a factor in making the deal.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all?
You could keep it profitable by lowering the budget. There's a lot less money in SC2, which means you don't need as much ad revenue to run it profitably. It doesn't have to be as big as the normal OSL. It'd be stupid to make it as big as the OSL right now, in fact. Being optimistic that SC2 can grow doesn't make me blind to the reality that it's not anywhere near Brood War (even if it were an objectively better game right now, and it isn't, Brood War is also firmly ensconced in Korean culture).
(I think OnGameNet was making OS2L rumblings at some point, but they might be soured on that now)
But, y'know, it'd probably be bigger than BW 2v2s were.
Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
And the contract expiring at the same time as GOM's is a coincidence? Even if Kespa isn't thinking it, Blizzard most certainly is.
tl;dr: Blizzard REALLY REALLY NEEDS more SC2 tournaments in Korea, and that's absolutely a big part of the reason they gave in to Kespa, even though they're obviously not going to say it.
You also have to take note of the absence of LAN play. This is seriously hindering SC2 to be taken seriously as an e-Sport.
On May 18 2011 08:01 infinity2k9 wrote: The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
I said....nothing of the sort. OS2L, if it even happened, would be smaller than the OSL. Significantly, in fact. Even if it continues to grow, SC2 will be a side-show to BW in Korea for at least 5 years, and even that's pretty fucking optimistic (like, Maybe it Flash admitted to paying his opponents to throw games to him using Colombian drug money, or other such major scandal. Maybe.). I'm just saying the too can co-exist. I never said they'd be equal, and I certainly never said SC2 would overtake BW in Korea in the near future.
Korean SC2 is in desperate need of more tournaments than the GSL, or else it's going to collapse. GOM is trying to get more foreign players to go to Korea for tournaments, but it's literally not worth it for foreign players to go to Korea because the foreign scene is just as good for prizes. Preventing SC2 from collapsing is a major goal of Blizzard, and it's almost certainly a factor in making the deal.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all?
You could keep it profitable by lowering the budget. There's a lot less money in SC2, which means you don't need as much ad revenue to run it profitably. It doesn't have to be as big as the normal OSL. It'd be stupid to make it as big as the OSL right now, in fact. Being optimistic that SC2 can grow doesn't make me blind to the reality that it's not anywhere near Brood War (even if it were an objectively better game right now, and it isn't, Brood War is also firmly ensconced in Korean culture).
(I think OnGameNet was making OS2L rumblings at some point, but they might be soured on that now)
But, y'know, it'd probably be bigger than BW 2v2s were.
Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
And the contract expiring at the same time as GOM's is a coincidence? Even if Kespa isn't thinking it, Blizzard most certainly is.
tl;dr: Blizzard REALLY REALLY NEEDS more SC2 tournaments in Korea, and that's absolutely a big part of the reason they gave in to Kespa, even though they're obviously not going to say it.
You also have to take note of the absence of LAN play. This is seriously hindering SC2 to be taken seriously as an e-Sport.
I don't think that matters nearly as much as people think. Blizz is going to make a tournament server functionality to keep things local. They've been promising it forever, but it'll happen if the lack of it causes enough ratings damage. Which I'm not convinced it will. Jaedong beat Flash via power failure once (and I saw that game, Flash was totally still in it!), but it hardly killed BW.
What's likely to happen now if things continue as is is that the SC2 e-sports scene continues to be huge in the foreign tournaments, to the point that it grows e-sports generally but quite a bit, but fails in Korea because getting sick and losing in the Code A qualifiers means you make 0 dollars at Starcraft for the whole month. And maybe that's okay for Kespa, and it's okay for foreign SC2 players, but it's a huge embarrassment for Blizzard.
I don't think Blizzard is trying to replace BW in Korea anymore. That fight is lost. They want to keep SC2 alive in Korea, and to do that they need more tournaments, or else all the Korean players will either quit or move away to play in the foreign scene. If Kespa offered to host an SC2 tournament, even a relatively tiny one that ran at 3am between the Bowflex Infomercial and the Skeezy porn flicks, they could get a lot for that. GOM is desperate enough that they're paying for Tastosis and some GSL players to go to MLG, which they're taking a break in their big Super Tournament to not conflict with it.
Blizzard /Gretech is in a very desperate position, and it's important to understand that to understand why they're suddenly so accommodating to Kespa. SC2 is in serious danger of failing in Korea, but not because the fans are threatening to walk out; because the players are.
(Admittedly, a lot of my source for this is Idra and Incontrol talking about it on SOTG, but the fact that foreign SC2 players can't be bothered to go to Korea even with a free Code S seed is pretty uncontroversial).
Edit: I don't want to start a SC2 vs BW thread. I like SC2 quite a bit and think it has potential, but BW is absolutely better right now and will almost certainly still be better in 5 years. I'm talking about the reality of the two scenes in as much as it affects the contract negociations.
Oh Ribbon. Thou are quite outspoken on these forums despite honest intentions.
I'm actually quite interested to see what happens to the e-Stars tournament and WCG now that everything has been settled. Will OGN still broadcast WCG 2011 despite the lack of BW? Will e-Stars put Blizzard games back on its lineup?
I'm also interested to see KeSPA-affiliated sponsors and possibly even teams invest in SC2. It was rumored that subsidiaries of SKT and KT tried to sponsor GSL but backed out due to pressure from their parent companies. Also, I wonder if any BW teams will start opening SC2 divisions to test the waters with their B-teamers.
On May 18 2011 06:34 Zephirdd wrote: I love how KeSPa and Blizzard were basically killing themselves and now they are all like "I love him, he is the best of the world, this guy is the man"
jokes aside, Awesome to hear that. Looking forward for two years from today to see what will happen once Gretech's contract expires and KeSPa can take SC2 as well.
It's business... I don't know why you guys are even surprised.
I love that SC:BW now can live in peace with Blizzard, and there won't be more hate on SC2.
Since I LOVE both games, and It would be pretty hard to see one going away or something like that.
On May 18 2011 09:45 eviltomahawk wrote: Oh Ribbon. Thou are quite outspoken on these forums despite honest intentions.
I'm actually quite interested to see what happens to the e-Stars tournament and WCG now that everything has been settled. Will OGN still broadcast WCG 2011 despite the lack of BW? Will e-Stars put Blizzard games back on its lineup?
I'm also interested to see KeSPA-affiliated sponsors and possibly even teams invest in SC2. It was rumored that subsidiaries of SKT and KT tried to sponsor GSL but backed out due to pressure from their parent companies. Also, I wonder if any BW teams will start opening SC2 divisions to test the waters with their B-teamers.
I don't think we'll see people dual-wielding SC2 and BW, because you'd need to practice them both separately. We might see an "SC2" branch of CJ Entus or whatever, but it'll basically be an independent SC2 team with the same name as a BW team.
SC2 and BW are basically going to co-exist and not really step on each other's toes much now. We'll occasionally still see BW players go to SC2 (probably not the reverse) from time to time, but from here on out, SC2 and BW are in the same position as WC3 and BW. It's certainly easier to switch between BW and SC2 than it would be to switch between BW and WC3, but they're different enough games that you basically need to commit to one full time. No one, not Kespa and not Blizzard, is going to really control both scenes now.
On May 18 2011 06:34 Zephirdd wrote: I love how KeSPa and Blizzard were basically killing themselves and now they are all like "I love him, he is the best of the world, this guy is the man"
jokes aside, Awesome to hear that. Looking forward for two years from today to see what will happen once Gretech's contract expires and KeSPa can take SC2 as well.
It's business... I don't know why you guys are even surprised.
I love that SC:BW now can live in peace with Blizzard, and there won't be more hate on SC2.
Since I LOVE both games, and It would be pretty hard to see one going away or something like that.
It's the internet, we'll fight about anything. OP has a pic of a Blizzard employee and a Kespa employee, and I'm mildly surprised there isn't a flame war of which of them would win in a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos.
If anyone has noticed, while all BW teams are located in Seoul, almost all (except a few, which are in Seoul) of the SC2 teams are in Incheon. Is it possible that the BW scene will remain in Seoul, while Incheon will become the hub of the SC2 industry in Korea? (I think most teams are in Incheon because of cheaper housing and it's close to the Mokdong district in Seoul as I think it's far west).
On May 18 2011 08:01 infinity2k9 wrote: The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
I said....nothing of the sort. OS2L, if it even happened, would be smaller than the OSL. Significantly, in fact. Even if it continues to grow, SC2 will be a side-show to BW in Korea for at least 5 years, and even that's pretty fucking optimistic (like, Maybe it Flash admitted to paying his opponents to throw games to him using Colombian drug money, or other such major scandal. Maybe.). I'm just saying the too can co-exist. I never said they'd be equal, and I certainly never said SC2 would overtake BW in Korea in the near future.
Korean SC2 is in desperate need of more tournaments than the GSL, or else it's going to collapse. GOM is trying to get more foreign players to go to Korea for tournaments, but it's literally not worth it for foreign players to go to Korea because the foreign scene is just as good for prizes. Preventing SC2 from collapsing is a major goal of Blizzard, and it's almost certainly a factor in making the deal.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all?
You could keep it profitable by lowering the budget. There's a lot less money in SC2, which means you don't need as much ad revenue to run it profitably. It doesn't have to be as big as the normal OSL. It'd be stupid to make it as big as the OSL right now, in fact. Being optimistic that SC2 can grow doesn't make me blind to the reality that it's not anywhere near Brood War (even if it were an objectively better game right now, and it isn't, Brood War is also firmly ensconced in Korean culture).
(I think OnGameNet was making OS2L rumblings at some point, but they might be soured on that now)
But, y'know, it'd probably be bigger than BW 2v2s were.
Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
And the contract expiring at the same time as GOM's is a coincidence? Even if Kespa isn't thinking it, Blizzard most certainly is.
tl;dr: Blizzard REALLY REALLY NEEDS more SC2 tournaments in Korea, and that's absolutely a big part of the reason they gave in to Kespa, even though they're obviously not going to say it.
You also have to take note of the absence of LAN play. This is seriously hindering SC2 to be taken seriously as an e-Sport.
I don't think that matters nearly as much as people think. Blizz is going to make a tournament server functionality to keep things local. They've been promising it forever, but it'll happen if the lack of it causes enough ratings damage. Which I'm not convinced it will. Jaedong beat Flash via power failure once (and I saw that game, Flash was totally still in it!), but it hardly killed BW.
What's likely to happen now if things continue as is is that the SC2 e-sports scene continues to be huge in the foreign tournaments, to the point that it grows e-sports generally but quite a bit, but fails in Korea because getting sick and losing in the Code A qualifiers means you make 0 dollars at Starcraft for the whole month. And maybe that's okay for Kespa, and it's okay for foreign SC2 players, but it's a huge embarrassment for Blizzard.
I don't think Blizzard is trying to replace BW in Korea anymore. That fight is lost. They want to keep SC2 alive in Korea, and to do that they need more tournaments, or else all the Korean players will either quit or move away to play in the foreign scene. If Kespa offered to host an SC2 tournament, even a relatively tiny one that ran at 3am between the Bowflex Infomercial and the Skeezy porn flicks, they could get a lot for that. GOM is desperate enough that they're paying for Tastosis and some GSL players to go to MLG, which they're taking a break in their big Super Tournament to not conflict with it.
Blizzard /Gretech is in a very desperate position, and it's important to understand that to understand why they're suddenly so accommodating to Kespa. SC2 is in serious danger of failing in Korea, but not because the fans are threatening to walk out; because the players are.
(Admittedly, a lot of my source for this is Idra and Incontrol talking about it on SOTG, but the fact that foreign SC2 players can't be bothered to go to Korea even with a free Code S seed is pretty uncontroversial).
Edit: I don't want to start a SC2 vs BW thread. I like SC2 quite a bit and think it has potential, but BW is absolutely better right now and will almost certainly still be better in 5 years. I'm talking about the reality of the two scenes in as much as it affects the contract negociations.
The ping will still be a huge factor for high gameplay. If they are not going to implement LAN, then there will be huge issues. Comparing the power outage to absense of LAN is quite absurd, IMO. Having to put up with even a small delay would greatly hamper the quality of top level gameplay. For example in BW ZvZ, a single lag would cause huge disaster because everything counts. The problem with the power outage was that it only one set of game was affected by it whereas LAN play, it would affect all gameplay.
On May 18 2011 08:01 infinity2k9 wrote: The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
I said....nothing of the sort. OS2L, if it even happened, would be smaller than the OSL. Significantly, in fact. Even if it continues to grow, SC2 will be a side-show to BW in Korea for at least 5 years, and even that's pretty fucking optimistic (like, Maybe it Flash admitted to paying his opponents to throw games to him using Colombian drug money, or other such major scandal. Maybe.). I'm just saying the too can co-exist. I never said they'd be equal, and I certainly never said SC2 would overtake BW in Korea in the near future.
Korean SC2 is in desperate need of more tournaments than the GSL, or else it's going to collapse. GOM is trying to get more foreign players to go to Korea for tournaments, but it's literally not worth it for foreign players to go to Korea because the foreign scene is just as good for prizes. Preventing SC2 from collapsing is a major goal of Blizzard, and it's almost certainly a factor in making the deal.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all?
You could keep it profitable by lowering the budget. There's a lot less money in SC2, which means you don't need as much ad revenue to run it profitably. It doesn't have to be as big as the normal OSL. It'd be stupid to make it as big as the OSL right now, in fact. Being optimistic that SC2 can grow doesn't make me blind to the reality that it's not anywhere near Brood War (even if it were an objectively better game right now, and it isn't, Brood War is also firmly ensconced in Korean culture).
(I think OnGameNet was making OS2L rumblings at some point, but they might be soured on that now)
But, y'know, it'd probably be bigger than BW 2v2s were.
Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
And the contract expiring at the same time as GOM's is a coincidence? Even if Kespa isn't thinking it, Blizzard most certainly is.
tl;dr: Blizzard REALLY REALLY NEEDS more SC2 tournaments in Korea, and that's absolutely a big part of the reason they gave in to Kespa, even though they're obviously not going to say it.
You also have to take note of the absence of LAN play. This is seriously hindering SC2 to be taken seriously as an e-Sport.
I don't think that matters nearly as much as people think. Blizz is going to make a tournament server functionality to keep things local. They've been promising it forever, but it'll happen if the lack of it causes enough ratings damage. Which I'm not convinced it will. Jaedong beat Flash via power failure once (and I saw that game, Flash was totally still in it!), but it hardly killed BW.
What's likely to happen now if things continue as is is that the SC2 e-sports scene continues to be huge in the foreign tournaments, to the point that it grows e-sports generally but quite a bit, but fails in Korea because getting sick and losing in the Code A qualifiers means you make 0 dollars at Starcraft for the whole month. And maybe that's okay for Kespa, and it's okay for foreign SC2 players, but it's a huge embarrassment for Blizzard.
I don't think Blizzard is trying to replace BW in Korea anymore. That fight is lost. They want to keep SC2 alive in Korea, and to do that they need more tournaments, or else all the Korean players will either quit or move away to play in the foreign scene. If Kespa offered to host an SC2 tournament, even a relatively tiny one that ran at 3am between the Bowflex Infomercial and the Skeezy porn flicks, they could get a lot for that. GOM is desperate enough that they're paying for Tastosis and some GSL players to go to MLG, which they're taking a break in their big Super Tournament to not conflict with it.
Blizzard /Gretech is in a very desperate position, and it's important to understand that to understand why they're suddenly so accommodating to Kespa. SC2 is in serious danger of failing in Korea, but not because the fans are threatening to walk out; because the players are.
(Admittedly, a lot of my source for this is Idra and Incontrol talking about it on SOTG, but the fact that foreign SC2 players can't be bothered to go to Korea even with a free Code S seed is pretty uncontroversial).
Edit: I don't want to start a SC2 vs BW thread. I like SC2 quite a bit and think it has potential, but BW is absolutely better right now and will almost certainly still be better in 5 years. I'm talking about the reality of the two scenes in as much as it affects the contract negociations.
The ping will still be a huge factor for high gameplay. If they are not going to implement LAN, then there will be huge issues. Comparing the power outage to absense of LAN is quite absurd, IMO. Having to put up with even a small delay would greatly hamper the quality of top level gameplay. For example in BW ZvZ, a single lag would cause huge disaster because everything counts. The problem with the power outage was that it only one set of game was affected by it whereas LAN play, it would affect all gameplay.
I actually agree with Ribbon - the ping is not the major factor. What Korea needs is more SC2 tournaments which the result is the Blizzard deal with Kespa. GSL is a good tournament but if someone is eliminated early, there is nothing to do for a whole month. Which is not good for the players, not to mention the foreigners. Having more tournaments will solve this issue.
On May 18 2011 08:01 infinity2k9 wrote: The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
I said....nothing of the sort. OS2L, if it even happened, would be smaller than the OSL. Significantly, in fact. Even if it continues to grow, SC2 will be a side-show to BW in Korea for at least 5 years, and even that's pretty fucking optimistic (like, Maybe it Flash admitted to paying his opponents to throw games to him using Colombian drug money, or other such major scandal. Maybe.). I'm just saying the too can co-exist. I never said they'd be equal, and I certainly never said SC2 would overtake BW in Korea in the near future.
Korean SC2 is in desperate need of more tournaments than the GSL, or else it's going to collapse. GOM is trying to get more foreign players to go to Korea for tournaments, but it's literally not worth it for foreign players to go to Korea because the foreign scene is just as good for prizes. Preventing SC2 from collapsing is a major goal of Blizzard, and it's almost certainly a factor in making the deal.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all?
You could keep it profitable by lowering the budget. There's a lot less money in SC2, which means you don't need as much ad revenue to run it profitably. It doesn't have to be as big as the normal OSL. It'd be stupid to make it as big as the OSL right now, in fact. Being optimistic that SC2 can grow doesn't make me blind to the reality that it's not anywhere near Brood War (even if it were an objectively better game right now, and it isn't, Brood War is also firmly ensconced in Korean culture).
(I think OnGameNet was making OS2L rumblings at some point, but they might be soured on that now)
But, y'know, it'd probably be bigger than BW 2v2s were.
Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
And the contract expiring at the same time as GOM's is a coincidence? Even if Kespa isn't thinking it, Blizzard most certainly is.
tl;dr: Blizzard REALLY REALLY NEEDS more SC2 tournaments in Korea, and that's absolutely a big part of the reason they gave in to Kespa, even though they're obviously not going to say it.
You also have to take note of the absence of LAN play. This is seriously hindering SC2 to be taken seriously as an e-Sport.
I don't think that matters nearly as much as people think. Blizz is going to make a tournament server functionality to keep things local. They've been promising it forever, but it'll happen if the lack of it causes enough ratings damage. Which I'm not convinced it will. Jaedong beat Flash via power failure once (and I saw that game, Flash was totally still in it!), but it hardly killed BW.
What's likely to happen now if things continue as is is that the SC2 e-sports scene continues to be huge in the foreign tournaments, to the point that it grows e-sports generally but quite a bit, but fails in Korea because getting sick and losing in the Code A qualifiers means you make 0 dollars at Starcraft for the whole month. And maybe that's okay for Kespa, and it's okay for foreign SC2 players, but it's a huge embarrassment for Blizzard.
I don't think Blizzard is trying to replace BW in Korea anymore. That fight is lost. They want to keep SC2 alive in Korea, and to do that they need more tournaments, or else all the Korean players will either quit or move away to play in the foreign scene. If Kespa offered to host an SC2 tournament, even a relatively tiny one that ran at 3am between the Bowflex Infomercial and the Skeezy porn flicks, they could get a lot for that. GOM is desperate enough that they're paying for Tastosis and some GSL players to go to MLG, which they're taking a break in their big Super Tournament to not conflict with it.
Blizzard /Gretech is in a very desperate position, and it's important to understand that to understand why they're suddenly so accommodating to Kespa. SC2 is in serious danger of failing in Korea, but not because the fans are threatening to walk out; because the players are.
(Admittedly, a lot of my source for this is Idra and Incontrol talking about it on SOTG, but the fact that foreign SC2 players can't be bothered to go to Korea even with a free Code S seed is pretty uncontroversial).
Edit: I don't want to start a SC2 vs BW thread. I like SC2 quite a bit and think it has potential, but BW is absolutely better right now and will almost certainly still be better in 5 years. I'm talking about the reality of the two scenes in as much as it affects the contract negociations.
The ping will still be a huge factor for high gameplay. If they are not going to implement LAN, then there will be huge issues. Comparing the power outage to absense of LAN is quite absurd, IMO. Having to put up with even a small delay would greatly hamper the quality of top level gameplay. For example in BW ZvZ, a single lag would cause huge disaster because everything counts. The problem with the power outage was that it only one set of game was affected by it whereas LAN play, it would affect all gameplay.
I actually agree with Ribbon - the ping is not the major factor. What Korea needs is more SC2 tournaments which the result is the Blizzard deal with Kespa. GSL is a good tournament but if someone is eliminated early, there is nothing to do for a whole month. Which is not good for the players, not to mention the foreigners. Having more tournaments will solve this issue.
idk .. Sc2 not being p2p can be a technical issue. Regarding tournaments, thats up to the players and sponsor. but we'll see.
On May 18 2011 08:01 infinity2k9 wrote: The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
I said....nothing of the sort. OS2L, if it even happened, would be smaller than the OSL. Significantly, in fact. Even if it continues to grow, SC2 will be a side-show to BW in Korea for at least 5 years, and even that's pretty fucking optimistic (like, Maybe it Flash admitted to paying his opponents to throw games to him using Colombian drug money, or other such major scandal. Maybe.). I'm just saying the too can co-exist. I never said they'd be equal, and I certainly never said SC2 would overtake BW in Korea in the near future.
Korean SC2 is in desperate need of more tournaments than the GSL, or else it's going to collapse. GOM is trying to get more foreign players to go to Korea for tournaments, but it's literally not worth it for foreign players to go to Korea because the foreign scene is just as good for prizes. Preventing SC2 from collapsing is a major goal of Blizzard, and it's almost certainly a factor in making the deal.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all?
You could keep it profitable by lowering the budget. There's a lot less money in SC2, which means you don't need as much ad revenue to run it profitably. It doesn't have to be as big as the normal OSL. It'd be stupid to make it as big as the OSL right now, in fact. Being optimistic that SC2 can grow doesn't make me blind to the reality that it's not anywhere near Brood War (even if it were an objectively better game right now, and it isn't, Brood War is also firmly ensconced in Korean culture).
(I think OnGameNet was making OS2L rumblings at some point, but they might be soured on that now)
But, y'know, it'd probably be bigger than BW 2v2s were.
Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
And the contract expiring at the same time as GOM's is a coincidence? Even if Kespa isn't thinking it, Blizzard most certainly is.
tl;dr: Blizzard REALLY REALLY NEEDS more SC2 tournaments in Korea, and that's absolutely a big part of the reason they gave in to Kespa, even though they're obviously not going to say it.
You also have to take note of the absence of LAN play. This is seriously hindering SC2 to be taken seriously as an e-Sport.
I don't think that matters nearly as much as people think. Blizz is going to make a tournament server functionality to keep things local. They've been promising it forever, but it'll happen if the lack of it causes enough ratings damage. Which I'm not convinced it will. Jaedong beat Flash via power failure once (and I saw that game, Flash was totally still in it!), but it hardly killed BW.
What's likely to happen now if things continue as is is that the SC2 e-sports scene continues to be huge in the foreign tournaments, to the point that it grows e-sports generally but quite a bit, but fails in Korea because getting sick and losing in the Code A qualifiers means you make 0 dollars at Starcraft for the whole month. And maybe that's okay for Kespa, and it's okay for foreign SC2 players, but it's a huge embarrassment for Blizzard.
I don't think Blizzard is trying to replace BW in Korea anymore. That fight is lost. They want to keep SC2 alive in Korea, and to do that they need more tournaments, or else all the Korean players will either quit or move away to play in the foreign scene. If Kespa offered to host an SC2 tournament, even a relatively tiny one that ran at 3am between the Bowflex Infomercial and the Skeezy porn flicks, they could get a lot for that. GOM is desperate enough that they're paying for Tastosis and some GSL players to go to MLG, which they're taking a break in their big Super Tournament to not conflict with it.
Blizzard /Gretech is in a very desperate position, and it's important to understand that to understand why they're suddenly so accommodating to Kespa. SC2 is in serious danger of failing in Korea, but not because the fans are threatening to walk out; because the players are.
(Admittedly, a lot of my source for this is Idra and Incontrol talking about it on SOTG, but the fact that foreign SC2 players can't be bothered to go to Korea even with a free Code S seed is pretty uncontroversial).
Edit: I don't want to start a SC2 vs BW thread. I like SC2 quite a bit and think it has potential, but BW is absolutely better right now and will almost certainly still be better in 5 years. I'm talking about the reality of the two scenes in as much as it affects the contract negociations.
The ping will still be a huge factor for high gameplay. If they are not going to implement LAN, then there will be huge issues. Comparing the power outage to absense of LAN is quite absurd, IMO. Having to put up with even a small delay would greatly hamper the quality of top level gameplay. For example in BW ZvZ, a single lag would cause huge disaster because everything counts. The problem with the power outage was that it only one set of game was affected by it whereas LAN play, it would affect all gameplay.
The ping is fine as long as it's consistent. I don't thing I've heard a single SC2 player complain about lag and not be talking about playing transcontinental games. If that really does become a problem, and I doubt it will, Blizz has said they're going to make "tournament servers" for exactly this issue. Even then, I've heard Korean players say the Korea-to-NA lag isn't that bad once you get used to it.
Ping *is* a concern when Koreans play in non-Korean online events like the TSL or NASL, but there's not much that can be done about that right now. Lag *spikes* are very bad, but consistent small latency isn't really a big deal. Even LAN has a little latency.
And I mentioned power outages because I thought you were talking about drops and stuff, which does happen more than it should, but not a lot.
On May 18 2011 08:01 infinity2k9 wrote: The only stuff i see Ribbon post is about how everything is going to switch to SC2 even if this doesn't represent reality. Seriously i dunno where you get your ideas from.
I said....nothing of the sort. OS2L, if it even happened, would be smaller than the OSL. Significantly, in fact. Even if it continues to grow, SC2 will be a side-show to BW in Korea for at least 5 years, and even that's pretty fucking optimistic (like, Maybe it Flash admitted to paying his opponents to throw games to him using Colombian drug money, or other such major scandal. Maybe.). I'm just saying the too can co-exist. I never said they'd be equal, and I certainly never said SC2 would overtake BW in Korea in the near future.
Korean SC2 is in desperate need of more tournaments than the GSL, or else it's going to collapse. GOM is trying to get more foreign players to go to Korea for tournaments, but it's literally not worth it for foreign players to go to Korea because the foreign scene is just as good for prizes. Preventing SC2 from collapsing is a major goal of Blizzard, and it's almost certainly a factor in making the deal.
If MSL/OSL already run with hardly any profits what makes you think they want to make MSL2/OSL2 at all?
You could keep it profitable by lowering the budget. There's a lot less money in SC2, which means you don't need as much ad revenue to run it profitably. It doesn't have to be as big as the normal OSL. It'd be stupid to make it as big as the OSL right now, in fact. Being optimistic that SC2 can grow doesn't make me blind to the reality that it's not anywhere near Brood War (even if it were an objectively better game right now, and it isn't, Brood War is also firmly ensconced in Korean culture).
(I think OnGameNet was making OS2L rumblings at some point, but they might be soured on that now)
But, y'know, it'd probably be bigger than BW 2v2s were.
Even if the Gretech rights run out they would likely prefer to just broadcast GSL on their own terms for them rather than run their own tournaments at a loss. But this is total speculation anyway like everything you are saying, what we've been told solely relates to BW and nothing else.
And the contract expiring at the same time as GOM's is a coincidence? Even if Kespa isn't thinking it, Blizzard most certainly is.
tl;dr: Blizzard REALLY REALLY NEEDS more SC2 tournaments in Korea, and that's absolutely a big part of the reason they gave in to Kespa, even though they're obviously not going to say it.
You also have to take note of the absence of LAN play. This is seriously hindering SC2 to be taken seriously as an e-Sport.
I don't think that matters nearly as much as people think. Blizz is going to make a tournament server functionality to keep things local. They've been promising it forever, but it'll happen if the lack of it causes enough ratings damage. Which I'm not convinced it will. Jaedong beat Flash via power failure once (and I saw that game, Flash was totally still in it!), but it hardly killed BW.
What's likely to happen now if things continue as is is that the SC2 e-sports scene continues to be huge in the foreign tournaments, to the point that it grows e-sports generally but quite a bit, but fails in Korea because getting sick and losing in the Code A qualifiers means you make 0 dollars at Starcraft for the whole month. And maybe that's okay for Kespa, and it's okay for foreign SC2 players, but it's a huge embarrassment for Blizzard.
I don't think Blizzard is trying to replace BW in Korea anymore. That fight is lost. They want to keep SC2 alive in Korea, and to do that they need more tournaments, or else all the Korean players will either quit or move away to play in the foreign scene. If Kespa offered to host an SC2 tournament, even a relatively tiny one that ran at 3am between the Bowflex Infomercial and the Skeezy porn flicks, they could get a lot for that. GOM is desperate enough that they're paying for Tastosis and some GSL players to go to MLG, which they're taking a break in their big Super Tournament to not conflict with it.
Blizzard /Gretech is in a very desperate position, and it's important to understand that to understand why they're suddenly so accommodating to Kespa. SC2 is in serious danger of failing in Korea, but not because the fans are threatening to walk out; because the players are.
(Admittedly, a lot of my source for this is Idra and Incontrol talking about it on SOTG, but the fact that foreign SC2 players can't be bothered to go to Korea even with a free Code S seed is pretty uncontroversial).
Edit: I don't want to start a SC2 vs BW thread. I like SC2 quite a bit and think it has potential, but BW is absolutely better right now and will almost certainly still be better in 5 years. I'm talking about the reality of the two scenes in as much as it affects the contract negociations.
The ping will still be a huge factor for high gameplay. If they are not going to implement LAN, then there will be huge issues. Comparing the power outage to absense of LAN is quite absurd, IMO. Having to put up with even a small delay would greatly hamper the quality of top level gameplay. For example in BW ZvZ, a single lag would cause huge disaster because everything counts. The problem with the power outage was that it only one set of game was affected by it whereas LAN play, it would affect all gameplay.
I actually agree with Ribbon - the ping is not the major factor. What Korea needs is more SC2 tournaments which the result is the Blizzard deal with Kespa. GSL is a good tournament but if someone is eliminated early, there is nothing to do for a whole month. Which is not good for the players, not to mention the foreigners. Having more tournaments will solve this issue.
It'd be so weird if the SC2 capital of the word ended up being Sweden or something. GOM's making an announcement about that tomorrow (coincidental timing? Maybe), so we'll see. They're changing their formats to, among other things, allow Korean players to go to MLG. (And, rumor, increase the time dedicated to team leagues. Which is a bit off-topic but pleasepleaseplease)
Ping is not an issue right now because there's hardly any micro that requires good latency (unlike BW). The lack of LAN is, however, one of the prime reasons people bring up when arguing that adding more (mechanical) micro by blizzard would be pointless.
In other words, once we get LAN, we can move on to fix the lack of micro.
Anyone know what the contract ended up looking like... "who" does it favor?
I'm sure it favors blizzard as they technically have the law on their side. But honestly, blizzard knows that it's in their best interest to keep kespa in the game on their side, as they provide free promotion for blizzard.
Anyone know what the contract ended up looking like... "who" does it favor?
I'm sure it favors blizzard as they technically have the law on their side. But honestly, blizzard knows that it's in their best interest to keep kespa in the game on their side, as they provide free promotion for blizzard.
Considering Blizzard got none of their stupid demands the law is not on their side.... the right to audit kespa...lol...100% ownership of all things BW related... the leagues.... the teams.... players contracts...lololol
Anyone know what the contract ended up looking like... "who" does it favor?
I'm sure it favors blizzard as they technically have the law on their side. But honestly, blizzard knows that it's in their best interest to keep kespa in the game on their side, as they provide free promotion for blizzard.
Considering Blizzard got none of their stupid demands the law is not on their side.... the right to audit kespa...lol...100% ownership of all things BW related... the leagues.... the teams.... players contracts...lololol
Yup. It's funny because it's actually quite the opposite. Like SC2 never happened.
nice to see they could finally agree. now i can only hope the bw teams will start sc2 teams as well, maybe from their b- teams so that starcraft scene grows bigger!
Blizzard sure miscalculated the loyalty level of BW fans in South Korea. Now seeing SC2 even has less popularity than BW proleague in S. Korea, blizzard has to change its strategy.
I think that to assume that Blizzard would reach an agreement that does not lead to the growth of SC2 in Korea is naive. Therefore, the most likely outcome of this is more SC2 tournaments in Korea.
I'm surprised it ended so quickly and abruptly. Wonder what the details of the negotiation are? Anyone know? I wonder who took the lesser end of the deal? So much speculation
You guys going on about 'Well it must mean something for SC2 or they wouldn't do it!' don't make any sense, this is solely about the BW rights and it doesn't indicate any intentions towards anything else right now, just think about it objectively;
The fact both of the contracts run for 2 years doesn't mean anything... if Blizzard wanted KeSPA to take over they would simply cancel the exclusivity with Gretech and allow KeSPA to broadcast too. Just because they gave them the BW rights after having to go to a court case first doesn't mean they want to give them SC2 at all, you think they are best buddies all of a sudden now? If anything it looks very possible the case wasn't progressing in a direction they wanted hence the fairly easy settlement on KeSPAs part.
Gretech could infact even allow KeSPA to broadcast SC2 right now... they are allowed to sublicense it i believe (why would Gretech want competition though, this would only happen if Blizzard asked them and it was on Gretechs terms). The 2 year contract is likely just a timeframe they've decided to give broadcasting rights out because it's a good period of time in between re-assessments of the situation. And of course the contract is going to allow Blizzard to break it off and redecide what they want at any time, so don't try and suggest to me that they MUST keep it exclusive for Gretech.
Anyway i'm sure people are going to still go on about how SC2 is suddenly going to have more tournaments, teams will accept the game with open arms, the whole of Korea will unite in their newfound love of Starcraft 2. Just like people kept saying it was impossible for KeSPA to come out of this situation with Blizzard in any good way... and now look.
On May 18 2011 10:52 Ribbon wrote: I don't think we'll see people dual-wielding SC2 and BW, because you'd need to practice them both separately. We might see an "SC2" branch of CJ Entus or whatever, but it'll basically be an independent SC2 team with the same name as a BW team.
Herp derp. This isn't a hypothetical situation like I made it out to be; WeMade Fox has an SC2 team. It's basically Moon, Lyn, and....some other guy who probably also sucks, and it doesn't even qualify for the new SC2 proleague (which is why I forgot they existed).
Which makes it a good example of what BW/SC2 is now: 2 separate games with some of the same names floating around, and no real reason to compare them besides that they're both RTS's with an e-sports scene, with Brood War being the bigger of the two in Korea, and SC2 being bigger worldwide.
Thanks to GOMTV's aggressive anti re-stream tactic, the two biggest starcraft site in China seem to have completely stopped uploading GSL/SC2 matches since March. So their best commentator all moved back to BW casting. These caster has a cult following in China similar to Day9 in the west. Ever since then, online interaction between the BW community has increased!
I really dont know whats happening right now guys So Kespa can do the bw stuff because now they are friends with blizz... Blizz want that Kespa runs a sc2tournm but kespa will never do it? China is moving back to bw... xD Gom is losing money every second? Foreign fail at sc2 in korea?
On May 19 2011 22:26 ShadeR wrote: @ribbon moon and lyn are War3 players. I'm not so up to date but last i knew they were still Full-time War3 and part-time SC2.
So they can be forgiven for being bad at SC2. My point was that the SC2 WeMade FOX had no connection to the BW WeMadeFOX except the name.
On May 19 2011 23:10 mmdmmd wrote: BW is coming back guys!
It never left
Thanks to GOMTV's aggressive anti re-stream tactic, the two biggest starcraft site in China seem to have completely stopped uploading GSL/SC2 matches since March. So their best commentator all moved back to BW casting. These caster has a cult following in China similar to Day9 in the west. Ever since then, online interaction between the BW community has increased!
GOMTV digging it's own grave?
There's no difference to GOM between watching a restream and not watching at all.
On May 19 2011 23:41 therockmanxx wrote: I really dont know whats happening right now guys So Kespa can do the bw stuff because now they are friends with blizz... Blizz want that Kespa runs a sc2tournm but kespa will never do it? China is moving back to bw... xD Gom is losing money every second? Foreign fail at sc2 in korea?
1. Kespa can continue like things were before, except they have to pretend to like Blizzard now.
2. Blizz almost certainly wants Kespa to run some SC2 tournaments, but I can't say what Kespa thinks about that. Kespa might have an incentive to do that because they can hold it hostage when the contract comes up for renegotiation in two years. If they did, and that's a big if, it would be a lot smaller than BW tournaments.
3. I was under the impression China was WC3 country, but I could very well be wrong on that.
4. GOM isn't losing money. SC2 is only a "failure" compared to BW (in the same sense lacrosse is a failure compared to football). Because the prizes are smaller, it doesn't need to be as big to be profitable. GOM is in danger of losing PLAYERS because it's too easy to lose 1 game early one and be screwed for the month with no work, and the players have been complaining about that. They just today announced a proper pro league to alleviate this somewhat (yay!)
5. Foreigners aren't "failing" at SC2 in Korea. They literally don't think it's worth it to go because the foreign SC2 scene is big. Koreans are playing in foreign tournaments now, and they're not crushing like they did in Brood War because there's a foreign SC2 scene. Because of this and the "players about to strike" thing from point 4, the GSL is rescheduling itself to make it easier for Koreans to go to IEM, MLG, and Dreamhack without interrupting their progress in the GSL. Koreans are competing in online tournaments like NASL and TSL, but playing against Europeans online DOES have lag issues, so that's kind of weird. The foreign scene is poised to outpace the Korean scene at this rate, which is something GOM is trying to avoid.
On May 18 2011 22:22 Hatsu wrote: I think that to assume that Blizzard would reach an agreement that does not lead to the growth of SC2 in Korea is naive. Therefore, the most likely outcome of this is more SC2 tournaments in Korea.
I am not so sure about that, BW is not that profitable and we are talking about the king of e-sport games in Korea by a large margin, SC2 is a niche inside a niche, the only way that I see Kespa and broadcasters getting into SC2 is by a big money push from Blizzard, will be worthy for any of the parts? I dont think so.
On May 18 2011 22:22 Hatsu wrote: I think that to assume that Blizzard would reach an agreement that does not lead to the growth of SC2 in Korea is naive. Therefore, the most likely outcome of this is more SC2 tournaments in Korea.
I am not so sure about that, BW is not that profitable and we are talking about the king of e-sport games in Korea by a large margin, SC2 is a niche inside a niche, the only way that I see Kespa and broadcasters getting into SC2 is by a big money push from Blizzard, will be worthy for any of the parts? I dont think so.
Brood war is not growing anymore though and sc2 still has a lot of potential to grow plus it reaches a way bigger audience than bw does. By sponsoring sc2 you reach out over the world which could be a good oppertunity for a multinational like lets say coca cola to sponsor a tournament instead of korean companies like brood war has.
On May 18 2011 22:22 Hatsu wrote: I think that to assume that Blizzard would reach an agreement that does not lead to the growth of SC2 in Korea is naive. Therefore, the most likely outcome of this is more SC2 tournaments in Korea.
I am not so sure about that, BW is not that profitable and we are talking about the king of e-sport games in Korea by a large margin, SC2 is a niche inside a niche, the only way that I see Kespa and broadcasters getting into SC2 is by a big money push from Blizzard, will be worthy for any of the parts? I dont think so.
Brood war is not growing anymore though and sc2 still has a lot of potential to grow plus it reaches a way bigger audience than bw does. By sponsoring sc2 you reach out over the world which could be a good oppertunity for a multinational like lets say coca cola to sponsor a tournament instead of korean companies like brood war has.
On May 18 2011 22:22 Hatsu wrote: I think that to assume that Blizzard would reach an agreement that does not lead to the growth of SC2 in Korea is naive. Therefore, the most likely outcome of this is more SC2 tournaments in Korea.
I am not so sure about that, BW is not that profitable and we are talking about the king of e-sport games in Korea by a large margin, SC2 is a niche inside a niche, the only way that I see Kespa and broadcasters getting into SC2 is by a big money push from Blizzard, will be worthy for any of the parts? I dont think so.
Brood war is not growing anymore though and sc2 still has a lot of potential to grow plus it reaches a way bigger audience than bw does. By sponsoring sc2 you reach out over the world which could be a good oppertunity for a multinational like lets say coca cola to sponsor a tournament instead of korean companies like brood war has.
Several Korean BW sponsors ARE MNCs. I hope you realise a company can be Korean owned and also be an MNC.
On May 19 2011 23:10 mmdmmd wrote: BW is coming back guys!
Thanks to GOMTV's aggressive anti re-stream tactic, the two biggest starcraft site in China seem to have completely stopped uploading GSL/SC2 matches since March. So their best commentator all moved back to BW casting. These caster has a cult following in China similar to Day9 in the west. Ever since then, online interaction between the BW community has increased!
GOMTV digging it's own grave?
Didn't GOMTV announce that there will be in-house casters for Chinese viewers in their own language (I guess mandarin/cantanese or w.e).
On May 18 2011 22:22 Hatsu wrote: I think that to assume that Blizzard would reach an agreement that does not lead to the growth of SC2 in Korea is naive. Therefore, the most likely outcome of this is more SC2 tournaments in Korea.
I am not so sure about that, BW is not that profitable and we are talking about the king of e-sport games in Korea by a large margin, SC2 is a niche inside a niche, the only way that I see Kespa and broadcasters getting into SC2 is by a big money push from Blizzard, will be worthy for any of the parts? I dont think so.
Brood war is not growing anymore though and sc2 still has a lot of potential to grow plus it reaches a way bigger audience than bw does. By sponsoring sc2 you reach out over the world which could be a good oppertunity for a multinational like lets say coca cola to sponsor a tournament instead of korean companies like brood war has.
growing in Korea? I dont know about you but I wouldnt count on that, after the big marketing, the nice graphics, and the big money from Blizzard the SC2 numbers are not what they should be, you are basing your statements in what you wish, but the facts are others.
On May 18 2011 22:22 Hatsu wrote: I think that to assume that Blizzard would reach an agreement that does not lead to the growth of SC2 in Korea is naive. Therefore, the most likely outcome of this is more SC2 tournaments in Korea.
I am not so sure about that, BW is not that profitable and we are talking about the king of e-sport games in Korea by a large margin, SC2 is a niche inside a niche, the only way that I see Kespa and broadcasters getting into SC2 is by a big money push from Blizzard, will be worthy for any of the parts? I dont think so.
Brood war is not growing anymore though and sc2 still has a lot of potential to grow plus it reaches a way bigger audience than bw does. By sponsoring sc2 you reach out over the world which could be a good oppertunity for a multinational like lets say coca cola to sponsor a tournament instead of korean companies like brood war has.
5. Foreigners aren't "failing" at SC2 in Korea. They literally don't think it's worth it to go because the foreign SC2 scene is big. Koreans are playing in foreign tournaments now, and they're not crushing like they did in Brood War because there's a foreign SC2 scene. Because of this and the "players about to strike" thing from point 4, the GSL is rescheduling itself to make it easier for Koreans to go to IEM, MLG, and Dreamhack without interrupting their progress in the GSL. Koreans are competing in online tournaments like NASL and TSL, but playing against Europeans online DOES have lag issues, so that's kind of weird. The foreign scene is poised to outpace the Korean scene at this rate, which is something GOM is trying to avoid.
You're not looking into the deeper picture here. Is it a surprise that Koreans won every foreign event that is held live (IEM, Dreamhack etc.)? They suffer from lots of lag when playing in cross region online tournaments like the TSL.
On May 19 2011 23:10 mmdmmd wrote: BW is coming back guys!
Thanks to GOMTV's aggressive anti re-stream tactic, the two biggest starcraft site in China seem to have completely stopped uploading GSL/SC2 matches since March. So their best commentator all moved back to BW casting. These caster has a cult following in China similar to Day9 in the west. Ever since then, online interaction between the BW community has increased!
GOMTV digging it's own grave?
thats pretty hilarious hahah, would be cool to see the chinese resurge in BW, and maybe even come to challenge the koreans
On May 17 2011 08:42 Milkis wrote: "All the participants went into the negotiations with passion, and the negotiations went through in a fun and open way".
So many people in this thread use the word "world" to describe Europe and North America. SC2 is only popular there, where children are able to afford it. In other east asian countries with a strong gaming culture like China or Vietnam for example, BW fast map and UMS are much more popular than SC2.
And yet, they would account for at least 60% casual SC players of the planet, given their population and their strong addiction to gaming. Stop using the "world" as an argument lol.
Now I am really interested about the pro scene in china !! I think they have their own casters probably in TV Oh well that might be the topic of another thread =)
On May 19 2011 22:26 ShadeR wrote: @ribbon moon and lyn are War3 players. I'm not so up to date but last i knew they were still Full-time War3 and part-time SC2.
Nope I'm pretty sure Lyn and Moon are full time SC2, as Moon has participated in multiple big SC2 tourneys around the world, including the NASL,GSL,IEM.
On May 21 2011 06:40 kamikami wrote: So many people in this thread use the word "world" to describe Europe and North America. SC2 is only popular there, where children are able to afford it. In other east asian countries with a strong gaming culture like China or Vietnam for example, BW fast map and UMS are much more popular than SC2.
And yet, they would account for at least 60% casual SC players of the planet, given their population and their strong addiction to gaming. Stop using the "world" as an argument lol.
well, South America, I think, is still embracing BW with arms wide open. I constantly hear my from my friend about those cuban or brazilian zerg rush build that I have yet to see in iccup (maybe because i haven't been playing for 2 months now O.o).
Both sides definitely have good arguments for this case, and choosing an official verdict will be very much of a hassle. This is certainly one of the better results and a great compromise.
On May 19 2011 22:26 ShadeR wrote: @ribbon moon and lyn are War3 players. I'm not so up to date but last i knew they were still Full-time War3 and part-time SC2.
Nope I'm pretty sure Lyn and Moon are full time SC2, as Moon has participated in multiple big SC2 tourneys around the world, including the NASL,GSL,IEM.
No they're part time sc2 and part time wc3 players why else would they still be on the wc3 team of wemadefox..?
On May 19 2011 23:41 therockmanxx wrote: I really dont know whats happening right now guys So Kespa can do the bw stuff because now they are friends with blizz... Blizz want that Kespa runs a sc2tournm but kespa will never do it? China is moving back to bw... xD Gom is losing money every second? Foreign fail at sc2 in korea?
I don't know what makes you think China is moving back to BW - almost all the Chinese BW players have basically either retired or made a switch to SC 2. A couple of Chinese eSports websites being denied re-stream rights by GOMTV is not going to make a difference. They have other games to cover, like DOTA and League of Legends, which are the most popular eSports games in China, not anything related to SC.
The BW scene outside of Korea has always been a niche community. I do not foresee this changing. SC 2, on the other hand, seems to be the real deal when it comes to the next big thing in Western eSports.
On May 22 2011 15:15 elementz wrote: Well gom rights are exclusive but it doesn't mean no one else can host tournaments, it means that they have to pay GOM to host said tournaments.
GOM gave up their rights to BW a few months ago. OGN and MBCGame are paying the licence fees directly to Blizzard.
On May 21 2011 06:40 kamikami wrote: So many people in this thread use the word "world" to describe Europe and North America. SC2 is only popular there, where children are able to afford it. In other east asian countries with a strong gaming culture like China or Vietnam for example, BW fast map and UMS are much more popular than SC2.
And yet, they would account for at least 60% casual SC players of the planet, given their population and their strong addiction to gaming. Stop using the "world" as an argument lol.
SC2 was only recently officially released in China so that's one reason why it's not as big. It's bigger in other parts of Asia like Taiwan where it has its own proleague. Also it's more popular in the South East asia region
On May 19 2011 23:41 therockmanxx wrote: I really dont know whats happening right now guys So Kespa can do the bw stuff because now they are friends with blizz... Blizz want that Kespa runs a sc2tournm but kespa will never do it? China is moving back to bw... xD Gom is losing money every second? Foreign fail at sc2 in korea?
I don't know what makes you think China is moving back to BW - almost all the Chinese BW players have basically either retired or made a switch to SC 2. A couple of Chinese eSports websites being denied re-stream rights by GOMTV is not going to make a difference. They have other games to cover, like DOTA and League of Legends, which are the most popular eSports games in China, not anything related to SC.
The BW scene outside of Korea has always been a niche community. I do not foresee this changing. SC 2, on the other hand, seems to be the real deal when it comes to the next big thing in Western eSports.
Exposure, my friend. The best way to promote sc2 in China is to let these unofficial "super sites" to report/stream your product. We have 10 years of history to prove it.
Also I was talking about the general population, not players
SC2 was only recently officially released in China so that's one reason why it's not as big. It's bigger in other parts of Asia like Taiwan where it has its own proleague. Also it's more popular in the South East asia region
More popular than BW fast map ? I doubt it. I have Vietnamese friends who said to me that when they went to PC bangs there to play SC2 they only saw Dota or BW fast maps and when they played people asked "hey, what is the game you play ?" BW low map is not popular either, but sc2 is definitely not "big" there at all.
EPT
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