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On January 05 2005 11:42 ProudCappi wrote:
You are starting to piss me off. Even at this very moment zergs are doing fantastic. And they are totally dominating the semi-pro level.
I'll let the tournament results speak for themselves.
If we went back before 1.08, you have to be the most biased person ever if you think that it would make things "more fair".
I never said going back would be a good thing.
The changes that I did say were stupid, would hardly make a difference in the average game, but would help out zerg in situations where they are at a disadvantage currently.
Cheaper lurk research would help in situations where zerg is forced to 3hatch for example. In a game that gets past early game, the change makes no difference because it ends up only being like 100/100 min/gas.
And a cheaper pool would mean slightly faster lings to combat obunk. How long does it take to gather 50 minerals? Maybe 2 seconds? This ammount of time would only really matter vs obunk.
The cheaper turret shouldn't be changed imo, I was merely stating the stupid reason for it's change.
Right now, it is clear that iloveoov/nada are simply fantastic players, and they would most likely be the top had they chosen zerg.
They are indeed great players, but there's no way on earth they would've had as much success were they zerg players.
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On January 05 2005 11:52 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2005 11:42 ProudCappi wrote:
You are starting to piss me off. Even at this very moment zergs are doing fantastic. And they are totally dominating the semi-pro level. I'll let the tournament results speak for themselves. Show nested quote + If we went back before 1.08, you have to be the most biased person ever if you think that it would make things "more fair". I never said going back would be a good thing. Show nested quote + Right now, it is clear that iloveoov/nada are simply fantastic players, and they would most likely be the top had they chosen zerg. They are indeed great players, but there's no way on earth they would've had as much success were they zerg players.
1. Why? Why not look at the current situation? If anybody should be complaining its the poor toss.
2. I'm sorry, but 150 spawning pool would be gay. Imagine the july vs. nada game, but with 150 pool.
3. I disagree.
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On January 05 2005 11:58 ProudCappi wrote:
1. Why? Why not look at the current situation? If anybody should be complaining its the poor toss.
Oh, because toss hasn't done much other than a few very high placings by reach in the past few months? Wait, how many tourney wins do they have total? How many does zerg have? Zerg has like 3 or 4 pro tourney wins. The only ones I can remember are the coca cola starleague won by yellow, and the ogn starleague and itv league which were won by july.
Toss has every right to complain about pvz though, imo.
2. I'm sorry, but 150 spawning pool would be gay. Imagine the july vs. nada game, but with 150 pool.
I'm sorry I haven't seen this game. How long does it take to gather 50 minerals though? That's how much difference it would make.
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On January 05 2005 12:07 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2005 11:58 ProudCappi wrote:
1. Why? Why not look at the current situation? If anybody should be complaining its the poor toss. Oh, because toss hasn't done much other than a few very high placings by reach in the past few months? Wait, how many tourney wins do they have total? How many does zerg have? Zerg has like 3 or 4 pro tourney wins. The only ones I can remember are the coca cola starleague won by yellow, and the ogn starleague and itv league which were won by july. Toss has every right to complain about pvz though, imo. Show nested quote +2. I'm sorry, but 150 spawning pool would be gay. Imagine the july vs. nada game, but with 150 pool. I'm sorry I haven't seen this game. How long does it take to gather 50 minerals though? That's how much difference it would make.
1. Look at the races right now, not over the last few years. Toss is not so hot, with Zerg doing very well and Terran doing fairly well. On the semi-pro level zerg is completely dominating.
2. Zerg would have earlier and more lings.
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BW is fine and balanced........ its a zerg's choice to 12 hatch, and a terran's choice to 8 rax rush, sorry........ bad luck for u........ maybe u should learn to pool before hatch ^_^ and u won't have this problem.
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On January 05 2005 12:11 ProudCappi wrote:
1. Look at the races right now, not over the last few years. Toss is not so hot, with Zerg doing very well and Terran doing fairly well. On the semi-pro level zerg is completely dominating.
Zerg is doing very well? How so? Because Gorush is on a winstreak?
2. Zerg would have earlier and more lings.
How much earlier and how many more? With a 9pool or a 12pool the difference would be about 2seconds and 2-4 lings.
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On January 05 2005 12:11 Norway wrote:
BW is fine and balanced........ its a zerg's choice to 12 hatch, and a terran's choice to 8 rax rush, sorry........ bad luck for u........ maybe u should learn to pool before hatch ^_^ and u won't have this problem.
I think you should read Tien's post.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
Im trying to be as neutral as possible here.
I think we should keep the 200 pool.
150$ pool would make 4 pools even stronger, and then the gay zergs will use it more. 9 pool will also become a fad.
150$ pool will hurt protosses too early game.
45 health scvs is out of the question, this shouldnt even be discussed. Keep it at 60.
The only thing I have a beef with is bunker building time. Just increase this by a little bit or make it 150 bucks. Terrans can throw these things around so easily without it being detrimental to their economy where as the zerg has to waste many drones and even maybe a sunk to fight it off.
The other mini beef I have is those fucking medics. Why are they even a mana unit.
This is a ZvT thread guys, keep protoss out of it.
If you guys wanna talk about helping protoss PvZ, id be more than willing to discuss in another thread, which has been done so many times. I shook my head in shame so many times in this matchup because I opted for the cheapest and easiest way to win, that is, abusing the ZvP advantage. I have won so many better protoss players camping with mass lurk/sunk/spore while grabbing the islands and going ultra/ling.
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Sweden33723 Posts
Aaaaaaaah how wonderful TvP on korhal would be with 45 hp scvs!
Actually, TvP would be a walk in the fucking park with such weaksauce scvs -.-
The fact that it's 45 and not like 50 means that if a probe hits it once (quite likely) it will further reduce the neccessary amount of attacks from a dragoon for it to perish -_- (I know that's a horribly ugly sentance but it's the only thing in my head right now, no idea why)
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On January 05 2005 12:16 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2005 12:11 ProudCappi wrote:
1. Look at the races right now, not over the last few years. Toss is not so hot, with Zerg doing very well and Terran doing fairly well. On the semi-pro level zerg is completely dominating. Zerg is doing very well? How so? Because Gorush is on a winstreak? How much earlier and how many more? With a 9pool or a 12pool the difference would be about 2seconds and 2-4 lings.
1. No, look at all of the zergs. They are all winning. Look at KT-KTF. Also, you keep ignoring the semi-pro level, in which zergs completely dominate.
2. Which would have won the game, even with nada's perfect play.
btw: I'll have to respond later, I'm changing classes right now. Been fun talking, I'll be back later.
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Sweden33723 Posts
On January 05 2005 12:18 Tien wrote:
Im trying to be as neutral as possible here.
I think we should keep the 200 pool.
150$ pool would make 4 pools even stronger, and then the gay zergs will use it more. 9 pool will also become a fad.
150$ pool will hurt protosses too early game.
The only thing I have a beef with is bunker building time. Just increase this by a little bit or make it 150 bucks. Terrans can throw these things around so easily without it being detrimental to their economy where as the zerg has to waste many drones and even maybe a sunk to fight it off.
The other mini beef I have is those fucking medics. Why are they even a mana unit.
This is a ZvT thread guys, keep protoss out of it.
If you guys wanna talk about helping protoss PvZ, id be more than willing to discuss. I shook my head in shame so many times in this matchup because I opted for the cheapest and easiest way to win, that is, abusing the ZvP advantage. I have won so many better protoss players camping with mass lurk/sunk/spore while grabbing the islands and going ultra/ling.
Tien, if they can't deal with that they are inferior not superior players ;o (EDIT: Inferior LT players anyway  )
Like, most people can't deal with chojja doing that. But there is NO toss player who is superior to fucking chojja ;o
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
we'll see about that FA, Chojja is as an unpredictable player as Yellow. Who knows who he will lose to.
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On January 05 2005 12:20 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Tien, if they can't deal with that they are inferior not superior players ;o
How can you know? What if people had this attitude in 1.03?
Like, most people can't deal with chojja doing that. But there is NO toss player who is superior to fucking chojja ;o
No argument there. <3 chojja
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On January 05 2005 12:19 ProudCappi wrote:
1. No, look at all of the zergs. They are all winning. Look at KT-KTF.
If you haven't figured this out, I'm only going to be swayed by tournament wins. 
Also, you keep ignoring the semi-pro level, in which zergs completely dominate.
The fact that there are a bunch of zerg players just below pro level doesn't mean much imo.
2. Which would have won the game, even with nada's perfect play.
Can you link me to the vod? So did july win or lose? 
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Sweden33723 Posts
On January 05 2005 12:22 Tien wrote:
we'll see about that FA, Chojja is as an unpredictable player as Yellow. Who knows who he will lose to.
Well there's still no superior player to chojja when it comes to PvZ (no superior P player anyhow, gorush has even better stats but I dunno..), he's got a 75% winning % ffs ;o
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Agreed with exalted, i rape many terran going 12pool 11hatch, mainly because they expect hatch first, you can rape them easily with 6 lings with more coming if they leave their base for a bunker rush.
Yell0w was just stupid to do the same thing 3 times when it already fucked him over the 1st and 2nd time.
Keep the game as it is, Terran maybe a bit strong, but theres always a way to counter it, just like anything else. If anything is imbalance, its probably your lack of skill.
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Sweden33723 Posts
On January 05 2005 12:27 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2005 12:19 ProudCappi wrote:
1. No, look at all of the zergs. They are all winning. Look at KT-KTF. If you haven't figured this out, I'm only going to be swayed by tournament wins. Show nested quote +Also, you keep ignoring the semi-pro level, in which zergs completely dominate. The fact that there are a bunch of zerg players just below pro level doesn't mean much imo. Can you link me to the vod? So did july win or lose?
Only swayed by tournament wins, eh? Well how about the thrilling ZvZ final between GoRush and July which is coming up in like a week -_-
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On January 05 2005 12:41 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Only swayed by tournament wins, eh? Well how about the thrilling ZvZ final between GoRush and July which is coming up in like a week -_-
I am indeed very excited! But one tournament won't do the trick.
Isn't this the first zvz finals ever?
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I think it is the first ZvZ final ever, and hopefully the last. Good god, I can't imagine anything less climactic than a ZVZ FINAL
Zerg dominates pretty much everything EXCEPT the professional scene, and even there they're doing just fine.
I'm sorry but nothing bothers me more than a sub-pro Zerg player calling for balance changes that favor Zerg. Sub-pro Zerg players have a huge edge over sub-pro Terran and Protoss, shut your mouth and let people like Hong do the whining
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so wat ur saying is we shud make it easier to do a cheesy 4 pool resulting in more and more no skill, boring to watch, very short, win or die games.
And can u explain why semi-pro zerg players doesnt mean much 2 u?
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EPT
