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On January 05 2005 09:56 ProudCappi wrote:
Pro terrans were also fucked up. Pretty much only boxer managed to shine as a T.
Boxer knew what he was doing, others did not. It's as simple as that.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
I guess I didnt see that joke.
But I was being serious and never did I mentioned anything about reducing scv health so I dunno why he would say something about lowering ling health to me.
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On January 05 2005 09:58 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2005 09:56 ProudCappi wrote:
Pro terrans were also fucked up. Pretty much only boxer managed to shine as a T. Boxer knew what he was doing, others did not. It's as simple as that.
No, it isn't...
Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.
And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.
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On January 05 2005 10:07 ProudCappi wrote: Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.
Ah yes, chobo zergs who can't stop a bunker rush... You realize that yellow has claimed imbalance since long before bunker rushing became a fad. It's not that zerg's CAN'T stop bunker rushes, it's that doing a build that does stop them is detrimental.
Most of the 1.08 changes were fine. Here's a list of the stupid 1.08 changes.
Missile Turret: - Decreased cost to 75 minerals. - stupid change. Only put in effect because newbie terrans bitched about lurker/dt.
Hydralisk Den: - Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas. - fucking stupid change put in effect because newbie terrans couldn't stop fast lurk builds
Spawning Pool: - Increased build cost to 200 minerals - again, fucking stupid. Honestly, what decent player had trouble against 4pool/6pool back then?
And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.
Obviously maps play a role.
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No, yellow has always been whining.
And turrets shouldn't cost the same as bunkers. Zerg would be and was overpowered without the patch. Terran would be fucked early game without that.
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On January 05 2005 10:44 ProudCappi wrote: No, yellow has always been whining.
There's a difference between whining and telling what one honestly believes. Have you looked at tournament results since 1.08 came out? They pretty much back up yellow's claims.
And turrets shouldn't cost the same as bunkers.
They wouldn't cost the same as bunkers, bunkers cost 300 mins with 4 rines in them.
Zerg would be and was overpowered without the patch. Terran would be fucked early game without that.
I disagree.
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you have got to be kidding me if you thought 1.07 was better balanced then 1.08, to me most of you just seem like a bunch of whiners, if you think zvt is so imbalanced, then maybe you should try to play some pvz (which imo isnt imbalanced at all, but there are so many people who whine about it).
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On January 05 2005 10:54 pfff wrote: you have got to be kidding me if you thought 1.07 was better balanced then 1.08
If you're refering to me; I never said this.
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If terran SCV drop hp down to 45 I demand Drones+Probe drop HP to 10 and cant regain HP over time
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On January 05 2005 11:03 LetMeBeWithYou wrote: If terran SCV drop hp down to 45 I demand Drones+Probe drop HP to 10 and cant regain HP over time
Yes because dropping scv hp to a reasonable level would be so fucking imbalanced.
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On January 03 2005 20:53 MrIncognito wrote: I see nothing wrong with 8 brax SCV rushing. If it's annoying for terrans to whine about lowering SCV hits, it's more annoying that zergs act like it's their god given right to a free second hat without having to scout.
EXACTLY!
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On January 05 2005 10:41 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2005 10:07 ProudCappi wrote: Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs. Ah yes, chobo zergs who can't stop a bunker rush... You realize that yellow has claimed imbalance since long before bunker rushing became a fad. It's not that zerg's CAN'T stop bunker rushes, it's that doing a build that does stop them is detrimental. Most of the 1.08 changes were fine. Here's a list of the stupid 1.08 changes. Missile Turret: - Decreased cost to 75 minerals. - stupid change. Only put in effect because newbie terrans bitched about lurker/dt.Hydralisk Den: - Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas. - fucking stupid change put in effect because newbie terrans couldn't stop fast lurk buildsSpawning Pool: - Increased build cost to 200 minerals - again, fucking stupid. Honestly, what decent player had trouble against 4pool/6pool back then?Show nested quote +And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps. Obviously maps play a role.
Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.
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I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP . Also and the most important : Faggot biased zerg players , go kill yourselves , thanks
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On January 05 2005 11:10 RiSE wrote:
Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.
It's hard to not be biased when zerg has won about 1/3 of the tournies toss has won in the past 4 years, and about 1/8th what terran has won.
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On January 05 2005 11:14 Lykathea[Go] wrote: I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .
This thread is not about the overall matchup, it was about one facet of the matchup.
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45 is a bit harsh, I say lower SCV hp to 50.
One creative solution would be to put Scv health down to 45 or 50 but give them 2 armor when building to suit the original purpose of being not so easy to interrupt construction.
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On January 04 2005 20:30 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2005 19:24 exalted wrote: You guys are attempting to defy the mechanics of the game...
You're saying that a RUSH strategy, shoudln't be able to beat a FAST EXPAND strategy? Wtf? You have to take a step back and look at what is beating what - as stated countless times before, fast expand is a privilege, not a right. And so you try to fast expand and you get _rushed_ and you call it inbalance? You want to make it so the zerg can comfortably fast expand every game and even if the terran sacs so much econ to 8rax [a risk in itself if the zerg plays safely] it's no use?
Bitch plz reconsider before you state more bullshit about how scvs are overpowered. If you think fighting terran using 1 base zerg is easy, than shut up and play good terrans using zerg, and go 1 base every game. See how many you actually win. You know why 12/3 positions are so hard for zerg? 2 reasons: number 1 reason is because zerg doesnt have a fast expansion to work with 2nd is positions are close. So now that we have proven that zergs need a fast expansion just to be equal to a terran, lets discuss the other things you said. 8 rax is risky. Bullshit. Standard build for terran: double rax Standard build for zerg: Fast expo Even start off Terran going 8 rax has a higher percentage of winning every game. Zerg going 9 pool has a very low percentage of winning every game. Considering the other race is going STANDARD BUILD. 12 pooling every game starts zerg off at a disadvantage if terran goes standard build! A rush build beats a fast expo build. True. But how many terrans do you see fast expoing compared to zergs???? See the disadvantage here?!?! Its so fucking obvious. Just connect the dots and put your ego aside. All im suggesting is one thing: - Increase bunker building time (these things build in like 2 secs) Thats all! Is it too hard? I believe weakening scvs is too harsh against protoss. But since terrans dont need bunkers vs toss I believe this is fair. I find it insulting that terrans believe it is their god given right to abuse advantages whenever they see fit and openly say it isnt an advantage. In return for this minor change, I am perfectly happy to weaken the ultra/ling combo for protosses. Or make certain protoss units stronger so that they can fight ultra/ling easier. Unlike you, im willing to admit to an advantage when I see one.
Well said.
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On January 05 2005 11:22 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2005 11:10 RiSE wrote:
Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ. It's hard to not be biased when zerg has won about 1/3 of the tournies toss has won in the past 4 years, and about 1/8th what terran has won.
You are starting to piss me off. Even at this very moment zergs are doing fantastic. And they are totally dominating the semi-pro level. If we went back before 1.08, you have to be the most biased person ever if you think that it would make things "more fair". Right now, it is clear that iloveoov/nada are simply fantastic players, and they would most likely be the top had they chosen zerg.
BTW: if you ever watched old vods, you see terran build bunkers instead of turrets because they costed the same. Terrans would have to run back some of their marines and load them in the bunkers. Mutas are less gay now, but they are not underpowered.
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On January 05 2005 11:23 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2005 11:14 Lykathea[Go] wrote: I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .
This thread is not about the overall matchup, it was about one facet of the matchup.
WTF!? You can't ignore all of the effects of your actions becuase you are focusing on one of them.
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Lowering scv health is no option at all, because scv health plays a large role not only in bunker rushes, but also against any kind of harass and in tvp as well. If scv health is changed, we don't only make bunker rushes less effective but change many other things as well, which are balanced right now.
I like the idea of scv's attack rate to be the same as that of probes and drones, bunker rush is one of the only scenarios where people actually use scv as an offensive unit.
I also like the increased bunker building time, it would probably make 12hat more possible.
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