• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:40
CEST 01:40
KST 08:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025)0Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week0Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer8Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer Rain's Behind the Scenes Storytime Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025) Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Echoes of Revolution and Separation UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 33407 users

[Thoughts]Balance change - Page 7

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 12 Next All
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 00:58 GMT
#121
On January 05 2005 09:56 ProudCappi wrote:


Pro terrans were also fucked up. Pretty much only boxer managed to shine as a T.


Boxer knew what he was doing, others did not. It's as simple as that.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
January 05 2005 00:58 GMT
#122
I guess I didnt see that joke.

But I was being serious and never did I mentioned anything about reducing scv health so I dunno why he would say something about lowering ling health to me.
We decide our own destiny
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 01:18:58
January 05 2005 01:07 GMT
#123
On January 05 2005 09:58 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 09:56 ProudCappi wrote:


Pro terrans were also fucked up. Pretty much only boxer managed to shine as a T.


Boxer knew what he was doing, others did not. It's as simple as that.


No, it isn't...

Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.

And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 01:42:26
January 05 2005 01:41 GMT
#124
On January 05 2005 10:07 ProudCappi wrote:
Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.


Ah yes, chobo zergs who can't stop a bunker rush... You realize that yellow has claimed imbalance since long before bunker rushing became a fad. It's not that zerg's CAN'T stop bunker rushes, it's that doing a build that does stop them is detrimental.

Most of the 1.08 changes were fine. Here's a list of the stupid 1.08 changes.


Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals. - stupid change. Only put in effect because newbie terrans bitched about lurker/dt.

Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas. - fucking stupid change put in effect because newbie terrans couldn't stop fast lurk builds

Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals - again, fucking stupid. Honestly, what decent player had trouble against 4pool/6pool back then?

And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.


Obviously maps play a role.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
January 05 2005 01:44 GMT
#125
No, yellow has always been whining.

And turrets shouldn't cost the same as bunkers. Zerg would be and was overpowered without the patch. Terran would be fucked early game without that.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 01:51 GMT
#126
On January 05 2005 10:44 ProudCappi wrote:
No, yellow has always been whining.


There's a difference between whining and telling what one honestly believes. Have you looked at tournament results since 1.08 came out? They pretty much back up yellow's claims.

And turrets shouldn't cost the same as bunkers.



They wouldn't cost the same as bunkers, bunkers cost 300 mins with 4 rines in them.

Zerg would be and was overpowered without the patch. Terran would be fucked early game without that.


I disagree.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
pfff
Profile Joined May 2004
Belgium1352 Posts
January 05 2005 01:54 GMT
#127
you have got to be kidding me if you thought 1.07 was better balanced then 1.08, to me most of you just seem like a bunch of whiners, if you think zvt is so imbalanced, then maybe you should try to play some pvz (which imo isnt imbalanced at all, but there are so many people who whine about it).
It ain’t no sin to be glad you’re alive
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 01:57:56
January 05 2005 01:57 GMT
#128
On January 05 2005 10:54 pfff wrote:
you have got to be kidding me if you thought 1.07 was better balanced then 1.08


If you're refering to me; I never said this.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
LetMeBeWithYou
Profile Joined August 2004
Canada4254 Posts
January 05 2005 02:03 GMT
#129
If terran SCV drop hp down to 45 I demand Drones+Probe drop HP to 10 and cant regain HP over time
All Those beneath an angry star
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 02:04 GMT
#130
On January 05 2005 11:03 LetMeBeWithYou wrote:
If terran SCV drop hp down to 45 I demand Drones+Probe drop HP to 10 and cant regain HP over time


Yes because dropping scv hp to a reasonable level would be so fucking imbalanced.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
RiSE
Profile Joined April 2004
United States3182 Posts
January 05 2005 02:07 GMT
#131
On January 03 2005 20:53 MrIncognito wrote:
I see nothing wrong with 8 brax SCV rushing. If it's annoying for terrans to whine about lowering SCV hits, it's more annoying that zergs act like it's their god given right to a free second hat without having to scout.


EXACTLY!
heavy hand upon the land, feel it's weight inside you
RiSE
Profile Joined April 2004
United States3182 Posts
January 05 2005 02:10 GMT
#132
On January 05 2005 10:41 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 10:07 ProudCappi wrote:
Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.


Ah yes, chobo zergs who can't stop a bunker rush... You realize that yellow has claimed imbalance since long before bunker rushing became a fad. It's not that zerg's CAN'T stop bunker rushes, it's that doing a build that does stop them is detrimental.

Most of the 1.08 changes were fine. Here's a list of the stupid 1.08 changes.


Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals. - stupid change. Only put in effect because newbie terrans bitched about lurker/dt.

Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas. - fucking stupid change put in effect because newbie terrans couldn't stop fast lurk builds

Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals - again, fucking stupid. Honestly, what decent player had trouble against 4pool/6pool back then?

Show nested quote +
And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.


Obviously maps play a role.


Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.
heavy hand upon the land, feel it's weight inside you
Lykathea[Go]
Profile Joined December 2004
France39 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 02:14:57
January 05 2005 02:14 GMT
#133
I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .
Also and the most important : Faggot biased zerg players , go kill yourselves , thanks
Let me introduce you to myself , my name is Death . How are you doing my friend? (Funeris Nocturnum - The Walls Breed Larvae)
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 02:22:47
January 05 2005 02:22 GMT
#134
On January 05 2005 11:10 RiSE wrote:

Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.


It's hard to not be biased when zerg has won about 1/3 of the tournies toss has won in the past 4 years, and about 1/8th what terran has won.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 02:23 GMT
#135
On January 05 2005 11:14 Lykathea[Go] wrote:
I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .


This thread is not about the overall matchup, it was about one facet of the matchup.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
NitrousOxide
Profile Joined June 2004
United States73 Posts
January 05 2005 02:25 GMT
#136
45 is a bit harsh, I say lower SCV hp to 50.

One creative solution would be to put Scv health down to 45 or 50 but give them 2 armor when building to suit the original purpose of being not so easy to interrupt construction.
tomson
Profile Joined November 2002
Poland641 Posts
January 05 2005 02:41 GMT
#137
On January 04 2005 20:30 Tien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2005 19:24 exalted wrote:
You guys are attempting to defy the mechanics of the game...

You're saying that a RUSH strategy, shoudln't be able to beat a FAST EXPAND strategy? Wtf? You have to take a step back and look at what is beating what - as stated countless times before, fast expand is a privilege, not a right. And so you try to fast expand and you get _rushed_ and you call it inbalance? You want to make it so the zerg can comfortably fast expand every game and even if the terran sacs so much econ to 8rax [a risk in itself if the zerg plays safely] it's no use?

Bitch plz reconsider before you state more bullshit about how scvs are overpowered.


If you think fighting terran using 1 base zerg is easy, than shut up and play good terrans using zerg, and go 1 base every game. See how many you actually win. You know why 12/3 positions are so hard for zerg? 2 reasons:
number 1 reason is because zerg doesnt have a fast expansion to work with
2nd is positions are close. So now that we have proven that zergs need a fast expansion just to be equal to a terran, lets discuss the other things you said.

8 rax is risky. Bullshit.

Standard build for terran: double rax
Standard build for zerg: Fast expo
Even start off

Terran going 8 rax has a higher percentage of winning every game.
Zerg going 9 pool has a very low percentage of winning every game.
Considering the other race is going STANDARD BUILD.

12 pooling every game starts zerg off at a disadvantage if terran goes standard build!

A rush build beats a fast expo build. True. But how many terrans do you see fast expoing compared to zergs????

See the disadvantage here?!?! Its so fucking obvious. Just connect the dots and put your ego aside.

All im suggesting is one thing:
- Increase bunker building time (these things build in like 2 secs)
Thats all! Is it too hard? I believe weakening scvs is too harsh against protoss. But since terrans dont need bunkers vs toss I believe this is fair.

I find it insulting that terrans believe it is their god given right to abuse advantages whenever they see fit and openly say it isnt an advantage.

In return for this minor change, I am perfectly happy to weaken the ultra/ling combo for protosses. Or make certain protoss units stronger so that they can fight ultra/ling easier.

Unlike you, im willing to admit to an advantage when I see one.


Well said.
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
January 05 2005 02:42 GMT
#138
On January 05 2005 11:22 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 11:10 RiSE wrote:

Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.


It's hard to not be biased when zerg has won about 1/3 of the tournies toss has won in the past 4 years, and about 1/8th what terran has won.


You are starting to piss me off. Even at this very moment zergs are doing fantastic. And they are totally dominating the semi-pro level. If we went back before 1.08, you have to be the most biased person ever if you think that it would make things "more fair". Right now, it is clear that iloveoov/nada are simply fantastic players, and they would most likely be the top had they chosen zerg.

BTW: if you ever watched old vods, you see terran build bunkers instead of turrets because they costed the same. Terrans would have to run back some of their marines and load them in the bunkers. Mutas are less gay now, but they are not underpowered.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
January 05 2005 02:43 GMT
#139
On January 05 2005 11:23 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 11:14 Lykathea[Go] wrote:
I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .


This thread is not about the overall matchup, it was about one facet of the matchup.


WTF!? You can't ignore all of the effects of your actions becuase you are focusing on one of them.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
January 05 2005 02:47 GMT
#140
Lowering scv health is no option at all, because scv health plays a large role not only in bunker rushes, but also against any kind of harass and in tvp as well. If scv health is changed, we don't only make bunker rushes less effective but change many other things as well, which are balanced right now.

I like the idea of scv's attack rate to be the same as that of probes and drones, bunker rush is one of the only scenarios where people actually use scv as an offensive unit.

I also like the increased bunker building time, it would probably make 12hat more possible.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft515
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 566
Aegong 79
HiyA 25
yabsab 19
League of Legends
Trikslyr52
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1568
Other Games
summit1g3684
shahzam1104
C9.Mang0781
Maynarde173
Mew2King81
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick812
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH198
• davetesta52
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki20
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur271
Other Games
• imaqtpie1088
• Scarra838
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
20m
RSL Revival
10h 20m
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
WardiTV Qualifier
16h 20m
PiGosaur Monday
1d
RSL Revival
1d 10h
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Harstem vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
SC Evo League
4 days
Circuito Brasileiro de…
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.