• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:12
CEST 10:12
KST 17:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview7TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection5Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June1Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview What kind of tool would you be interested in? TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review BW animated web series: seeking contributors 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event
Tourneys
[BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7391 users

[Thoughts]Balance change - Page 7

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 12 Next All
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 00:58 GMT
#121
On January 05 2005 09:56 ProudCappi wrote:


Pro terrans were also fucked up. Pretty much only boxer managed to shine as a T.


Boxer knew what he was doing, others did not. It's as simple as that.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
January 05 2005 00:58 GMT
#122
I guess I didnt see that joke.

But I was being serious and never did I mentioned anything about reducing scv health so I dunno why he would say something about lowering ling health to me.
We decide our own destiny
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 01:18:58
January 05 2005 01:07 GMT
#123
On January 05 2005 09:58 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 09:56 ProudCappi wrote:


Pro terrans were also fucked up. Pretty much only boxer managed to shine as a T.


Boxer knew what he was doing, others did not. It's as simple as that.


No, it isn't...

Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.

And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 01:42:26
January 05 2005 01:41 GMT
#124
On January 05 2005 10:07 ProudCappi wrote:
Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.


Ah yes, chobo zergs who can't stop a bunker rush... You realize that yellow has claimed imbalance since long before bunker rushing became a fad. It's not that zerg's CAN'T stop bunker rushes, it's that doing a build that does stop them is detrimental.

Most of the 1.08 changes were fine. Here's a list of the stupid 1.08 changes.


Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals. - stupid change. Only put in effect because newbie terrans bitched about lurker/dt.

Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas. - fucking stupid change put in effect because newbie terrans couldn't stop fast lurk builds

Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals - again, fucking stupid. Honestly, what decent player had trouble against 4pool/6pool back then?

And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.


Obviously maps play a role.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
January 05 2005 01:44 GMT
#125
No, yellow has always been whining.

And turrets shouldn't cost the same as bunkers. Zerg would be and was overpowered without the patch. Terran would be fucked early game without that.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 01:51 GMT
#126
On January 05 2005 10:44 ProudCappi wrote:
No, yellow has always been whining.


There's a difference between whining and telling what one honestly believes. Have you looked at tournament results since 1.08 came out? They pretty much back up yellow's claims.

And turrets shouldn't cost the same as bunkers.



They wouldn't cost the same as bunkers, bunkers cost 300 mins with 4 rines in them.

Zerg would be and was overpowered without the patch. Terran would be fucked early game without that.


I disagree.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
pfff
Profile Joined May 2004
Belgium1352 Posts
January 05 2005 01:54 GMT
#127
you have got to be kidding me if you thought 1.07 was better balanced then 1.08, to me most of you just seem like a bunch of whiners, if you think zvt is so imbalanced, then maybe you should try to play some pvz (which imo isnt imbalanced at all, but there are so many people who whine about it).
It ain’t no sin to be glad you’re alive
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 01:57:56
January 05 2005 01:57 GMT
#128
On January 05 2005 10:54 pfff wrote:
you have got to be kidding me if you thought 1.07 was better balanced then 1.08


If you're refering to me; I never said this.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
LetMeBeWithYou
Profile Joined August 2004
Canada4254 Posts
January 05 2005 02:03 GMT
#129
If terran SCV drop hp down to 45 I demand Drones+Probe drop HP to 10 and cant regain HP over time
All Those beneath an angry star
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 02:04 GMT
#130
On January 05 2005 11:03 LetMeBeWithYou wrote:
If terran SCV drop hp down to 45 I demand Drones+Probe drop HP to 10 and cant regain HP over time


Yes because dropping scv hp to a reasonable level would be so fucking imbalanced.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
RiSE
Profile Joined April 2004
United States3182 Posts
January 05 2005 02:07 GMT
#131
On January 03 2005 20:53 MrIncognito wrote:
I see nothing wrong with 8 brax SCV rushing. If it's annoying for terrans to whine about lowering SCV hits, it's more annoying that zergs act like it's their god given right to a free second hat without having to scout.


EXACTLY!
heavy hand upon the land, feel it's weight inside you
RiSE
Profile Joined April 2004
United States3182 Posts
January 05 2005 02:10 GMT
#132
On January 05 2005 10:41 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 10:07 ProudCappi wrote:
Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.


Ah yes, chobo zergs who can't stop a bunker rush... You realize that yellow has claimed imbalance since long before bunker rushing became a fad. It's not that zerg's CAN'T stop bunker rushes, it's that doing a build that does stop them is detrimental.

Most of the 1.08 changes were fine. Here's a list of the stupid 1.08 changes.


Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals. - stupid change. Only put in effect because newbie terrans bitched about lurker/dt.

Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas. - fucking stupid change put in effect because newbie terrans couldn't stop fast lurk builds

Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals - again, fucking stupid. Honestly, what decent player had trouble against 4pool/6pool back then?

Show nested quote +
And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.


Obviously maps play a role.


Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.
heavy hand upon the land, feel it's weight inside you
Lykathea[Go]
Profile Joined December 2004
France39 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 02:14:57
January 05 2005 02:14 GMT
#133
I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .
Also and the most important : Faggot biased zerg players , go kill yourselves , thanks
Let me introduce you to myself , my name is Death . How are you doing my friend? (Funeris Nocturnum - The Walls Breed Larvae)
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 02:22:47
January 05 2005 02:22 GMT
#134
On January 05 2005 11:10 RiSE wrote:

Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.


It's hard to not be biased when zerg has won about 1/3 of the tournies toss has won in the past 4 years, and about 1/8th what terran has won.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 02:23 GMT
#135
On January 05 2005 11:14 Lykathea[Go] wrote:
I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .


This thread is not about the overall matchup, it was about one facet of the matchup.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
NitrousOxide
Profile Joined June 2004
United States73 Posts
January 05 2005 02:25 GMT
#136
45 is a bit harsh, I say lower SCV hp to 50.

One creative solution would be to put Scv health down to 45 or 50 but give them 2 armor when building to suit the original purpose of being not so easy to interrupt construction.
tomson
Profile Joined November 2002
Poland641 Posts
January 05 2005 02:41 GMT
#137
On January 04 2005 20:30 Tien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2005 19:24 exalted wrote:
You guys are attempting to defy the mechanics of the game...

You're saying that a RUSH strategy, shoudln't be able to beat a FAST EXPAND strategy? Wtf? You have to take a step back and look at what is beating what - as stated countless times before, fast expand is a privilege, not a right. And so you try to fast expand and you get _rushed_ and you call it inbalance? You want to make it so the zerg can comfortably fast expand every game and even if the terran sacs so much econ to 8rax [a risk in itself if the zerg plays safely] it's no use?

Bitch plz reconsider before you state more bullshit about how scvs are overpowered.


If you think fighting terran using 1 base zerg is easy, than shut up and play good terrans using zerg, and go 1 base every game. See how many you actually win. You know why 12/3 positions are so hard for zerg? 2 reasons:
number 1 reason is because zerg doesnt have a fast expansion to work with
2nd is positions are close. So now that we have proven that zergs need a fast expansion just to be equal to a terran, lets discuss the other things you said.

8 rax is risky. Bullshit.

Standard build for terran: double rax
Standard build for zerg: Fast expo
Even start off

Terran going 8 rax has a higher percentage of winning every game.
Zerg going 9 pool has a very low percentage of winning every game.
Considering the other race is going STANDARD BUILD.

12 pooling every game starts zerg off at a disadvantage if terran goes standard build!

A rush build beats a fast expo build. True. But how many terrans do you see fast expoing compared to zergs????

See the disadvantage here?!?! Its so fucking obvious. Just connect the dots and put your ego aside.

All im suggesting is one thing:
- Increase bunker building time (these things build in like 2 secs)
Thats all! Is it too hard? I believe weakening scvs is too harsh against protoss. But since terrans dont need bunkers vs toss I believe this is fair.

I find it insulting that terrans believe it is their god given right to abuse advantages whenever they see fit and openly say it isnt an advantage.

In return for this minor change, I am perfectly happy to weaken the ultra/ling combo for protosses. Or make certain protoss units stronger so that they can fight ultra/ling easier.

Unlike you, im willing to admit to an advantage when I see one.


Well said.
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
January 05 2005 02:42 GMT
#138
On January 05 2005 11:22 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 11:10 RiSE wrote:

Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.


It's hard to not be biased when zerg has won about 1/3 of the tournies toss has won in the past 4 years, and about 1/8th what terran has won.


You are starting to piss me off. Even at this very moment zergs are doing fantastic. And they are totally dominating the semi-pro level. If we went back before 1.08, you have to be the most biased person ever if you think that it would make things "more fair". Right now, it is clear that iloveoov/nada are simply fantastic players, and they would most likely be the top had they chosen zerg.

BTW: if you ever watched old vods, you see terran build bunkers instead of turrets because they costed the same. Terrans would have to run back some of their marines and load them in the bunkers. Mutas are less gay now, but they are not underpowered.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
January 05 2005 02:43 GMT
#139
On January 05 2005 11:23 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 11:14 Lykathea[Go] wrote:
I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .


This thread is not about the overall matchup, it was about one facet of the matchup.


WTF!? You can't ignore all of the effects of your actions becuase you are focusing on one of them.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
January 05 2005 02:47 GMT
#140
Lowering scv health is no option at all, because scv health plays a large role not only in bunker rushes, but also against any kind of harass and in tvp as well. If scv health is changed, we don't only make bunker rushes less effective but change many other things as well, which are balanced right now.

I like the idea of scv's attack rate to be the same as that of probes and drones, bunker rush is one of the only scenarios where people actually use scv as an offensive unit.

I also like the increased bunker building time, it would probably make 12hat more possible.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 48m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 8960
Killer 257
Pusan 104
Leta 100
EffOrt 95
yabsab 82
Shine 73
Hm[arnc] 63
Shinee 55
Sharp 17
[ Show more ]
NotJumperer 15
ToSsGirL 13
JulyZerg 11
League of Legends
JimRising 674
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1168
Coldzera 1057
olofmeister227
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King95
Other Games
WinterStarcraft616
ceh9465
Pyrionflax84
RuFF_SC235
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick766
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 66
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH303
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• LUISG 0
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2963
• Jankos1646
• Rush1293
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
2h 48m
Monday Night Weeklies
7h 48m
Replay Cast
15h 48m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 1h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Classic vs Lambo
Clem vs Maru
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Serral vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.