• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 02:00
CET 08:00
KST 16:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion5Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 105
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Fantasy's Q&A video BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion
Tourneys
[BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1286 users

[Thoughts]Balance change - Page 7

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 12 Next All
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 00:58 GMT
#121
On January 05 2005 09:56 ProudCappi wrote:


Pro terrans were also fucked up. Pretty much only boxer managed to shine as a T.


Boxer knew what he was doing, others did not. It's as simple as that.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
January 05 2005 00:58 GMT
#122
I guess I didnt see that joke.

But I was being serious and never did I mentioned anything about reducing scv health so I dunno why he would say something about lowering ling health to me.
We decide our own destiny
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 01:18:58
January 05 2005 01:07 GMT
#123
On January 05 2005 09:58 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 09:56 ProudCappi wrote:


Pro terrans were also fucked up. Pretty much only boxer managed to shine as a T.


Boxer knew what he was doing, others did not. It's as simple as that.


No, it isn't...

Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.

And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 01:42:26
January 05 2005 01:41 GMT
#124
On January 05 2005 10:07 ProudCappi wrote:
Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.


Ah yes, chobo zergs who can't stop a bunker rush... You realize that yellow has claimed imbalance since long before bunker rushing became a fad. It's not that zerg's CAN'T stop bunker rushes, it's that doing a build that does stop them is detrimental.

Most of the 1.08 changes were fine. Here's a list of the stupid 1.08 changes.


Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals. - stupid change. Only put in effect because newbie terrans bitched about lurker/dt.

Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas. - fucking stupid change put in effect because newbie terrans couldn't stop fast lurk builds

Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals - again, fucking stupid. Honestly, what decent player had trouble against 4pool/6pool back then?

And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.


Obviously maps play a role.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
January 05 2005 01:44 GMT
#125
No, yellow has always been whining.

And turrets shouldn't cost the same as bunkers. Zerg would be and was overpowered without the patch. Terran would be fucked early game without that.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 01:51 GMT
#126
On January 05 2005 10:44 ProudCappi wrote:
No, yellow has always been whining.


There's a difference between whining and telling what one honestly believes. Have you looked at tournament results since 1.08 came out? They pretty much back up yellow's claims.

And turrets shouldn't cost the same as bunkers.



They wouldn't cost the same as bunkers, bunkers cost 300 mins with 4 rines in them.

Zerg would be and was overpowered without the patch. Terran would be fucked early game without that.


I disagree.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
pfff
Profile Joined May 2004
Belgium1352 Posts
January 05 2005 01:54 GMT
#127
you have got to be kidding me if you thought 1.07 was better balanced then 1.08, to me most of you just seem like a bunch of whiners, if you think zvt is so imbalanced, then maybe you should try to play some pvz (which imo isnt imbalanced at all, but there are so many people who whine about it).
It ain’t no sin to be glad you’re alive
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 01:57:56
January 05 2005 01:57 GMT
#128
On January 05 2005 10:54 pfff wrote:
you have got to be kidding me if you thought 1.07 was better balanced then 1.08


If you're refering to me; I never said this.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
LetMeBeWithYou
Profile Joined August 2004
Canada4254 Posts
January 05 2005 02:03 GMT
#129
If terran SCV drop hp down to 45 I demand Drones+Probe drop HP to 10 and cant regain HP over time
All Those beneath an angry star
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 02:04 GMT
#130
On January 05 2005 11:03 LetMeBeWithYou wrote:
If terran SCV drop hp down to 45 I demand Drones+Probe drop HP to 10 and cant regain HP over time


Yes because dropping scv hp to a reasonable level would be so fucking imbalanced.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
RiSE
Profile Joined April 2004
United States3182 Posts
January 05 2005 02:07 GMT
#131
On January 03 2005 20:53 MrIncognito wrote:
I see nothing wrong with 8 brax SCV rushing. If it's annoying for terrans to whine about lowering SCV hits, it's more annoying that zergs act like it's their god given right to a free second hat without having to scout.


EXACTLY!
heavy hand upon the land, feel it's weight inside you
RiSE
Profile Joined April 2004
United States3182 Posts
January 05 2005 02:10 GMT
#132
On January 05 2005 10:41 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 10:07 ProudCappi wrote:
Do you seriously think that if the changes were undone the game would be more balanced!? You can't. No one is saying that the game is imbalanced other than bunker rushing besides chobo zergs.


Ah yes, chobo zergs who can't stop a bunker rush... You realize that yellow has claimed imbalance since long before bunker rushing became a fad. It's not that zerg's CAN'T stop bunker rushes, it's that doing a build that does stop them is detrimental.

Most of the 1.08 changes were fine. Here's a list of the stupid 1.08 changes.


Missile Turret:
- Decreased cost to 75 minerals. - stupid change. Only put in effect because newbie terrans bitched about lurker/dt.

Hydralisk Den:
- Lurker Aspect cost increased to 200 minerals, 200 gas. - fucking stupid change put in effect because newbie terrans couldn't stop fast lurk builds

Spawning Pool:
- Increased build cost to 200 minerals - again, fucking stupid. Honestly, what decent player had trouble against 4pool/6pool back then?

Show nested quote +
And there is even dispute over the imbalance of bunker rushing, or whether it is just the maps.


Obviously maps play a role.


Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.
heavy hand upon the land, feel it's weight inside you
Lykathea[Go]
Profile Joined December 2004
France39 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 02:14:57
January 05 2005 02:14 GMT
#133
I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .
Also and the most important : Faggot biased zerg players , go kill yourselves , thanks
Let me introduce you to myself , my name is Death . How are you doing my friend? (Funeris Nocturnum - The Walls Breed Larvae)
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-01-05 02:22:47
January 05 2005 02:22 GMT
#134
On January 05 2005 11:10 RiSE wrote:

Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.


It's hard to not be biased when zerg has won about 1/3 of the tournies toss has won in the past 4 years, and about 1/8th what terran has won.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 05 2005 02:23 GMT
#135
On January 05 2005 11:14 Lykathea[Go] wrote:
I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .


This thread is not about the overall matchup, it was about one facet of the matchup.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
NitrousOxide
Profile Joined June 2004
United States73 Posts
January 05 2005 02:25 GMT
#136
45 is a bit harsh, I say lower SCV hp to 50.

One creative solution would be to put Scv health down to 45 or 50 but give them 2 armor when building to suit the original purpose of being not so easy to interrupt construction.
tomson
Profile Joined November 2002
Poland641 Posts
January 05 2005 02:41 GMT
#137
On January 04 2005 20:30 Tien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2005 19:24 exalted wrote:
You guys are attempting to defy the mechanics of the game...

You're saying that a RUSH strategy, shoudln't be able to beat a FAST EXPAND strategy? Wtf? You have to take a step back and look at what is beating what - as stated countless times before, fast expand is a privilege, not a right. And so you try to fast expand and you get _rushed_ and you call it inbalance? You want to make it so the zerg can comfortably fast expand every game and even if the terran sacs so much econ to 8rax [a risk in itself if the zerg plays safely] it's no use?

Bitch plz reconsider before you state more bullshit about how scvs are overpowered.


If you think fighting terran using 1 base zerg is easy, than shut up and play good terrans using zerg, and go 1 base every game. See how many you actually win. You know why 12/3 positions are so hard for zerg? 2 reasons:
number 1 reason is because zerg doesnt have a fast expansion to work with
2nd is positions are close. So now that we have proven that zergs need a fast expansion just to be equal to a terran, lets discuss the other things you said.

8 rax is risky. Bullshit.

Standard build for terran: double rax
Standard build for zerg: Fast expo
Even start off

Terran going 8 rax has a higher percentage of winning every game.
Zerg going 9 pool has a very low percentage of winning every game.
Considering the other race is going STANDARD BUILD.

12 pooling every game starts zerg off at a disadvantage if terran goes standard build!

A rush build beats a fast expo build. True. But how many terrans do you see fast expoing compared to zergs????

See the disadvantage here?!?! Its so fucking obvious. Just connect the dots and put your ego aside.

All im suggesting is one thing:
- Increase bunker building time (these things build in like 2 secs)
Thats all! Is it too hard? I believe weakening scvs is too harsh against protoss. But since terrans dont need bunkers vs toss I believe this is fair.

I find it insulting that terrans believe it is their god given right to abuse advantages whenever they see fit and openly say it isnt an advantage.

In return for this minor change, I am perfectly happy to weaken the ultra/ling combo for protosses. Or make certain protoss units stronger so that they can fight ultra/ling easier.

Unlike you, im willing to admit to an advantage when I see one.


Well said.
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
January 05 2005 02:42 GMT
#138
On January 05 2005 11:22 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 11:10 RiSE wrote:

Don't even post if you're going to be that biased for zerg. Christ.


It's hard to not be biased when zerg has won about 1/3 of the tournies toss has won in the past 4 years, and about 1/8th what terran has won.


You are starting to piss me off. Even at this very moment zergs are doing fantastic. And they are totally dominating the semi-pro level. If we went back before 1.08, you have to be the most biased person ever if you think that it would make things "more fair". Right now, it is clear that iloveoov/nada are simply fantastic players, and they would most likely be the top had they chosen zerg.

BTW: if you ever watched old vods, you see terran build bunkers instead of turrets because they costed the same. Terrans would have to run back some of their marines and load them in the bunkers. Mutas are less gay now, but they are not underpowered.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
ProudCappi
Profile Joined October 2004
United States366 Posts
January 05 2005 02:43 GMT
#139
On January 05 2005 11:23 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2005 11:14 Lykathea[Go] wrote:
I'm a T player , in all objectivity such changes are almost impossible , if T is slighty better , it's impossible to change that by increasing or descreasing a simple unit HP .


This thread is not about the overall matchup, it was about one facet of the matchup.


WTF!? You can't ignore all of the effects of your actions becuase you are focusing on one of them.
-proud capitalist- |freedom|property|individualism|self-reliance|
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
January 05 2005 02:47 GMT
#140
Lowering scv health is no option at all, because scv health plays a large role not only in bunker rushes, but also against any kind of harass and in tvp as well. If scv health is changed, we don't only make bunker rushes less effective but change many other things as well, which are balanced right now.

I like the idea of scv's attack rate to be the same as that of probes and drones, bunker rush is one of the only scenarios where people actually use scv as an offensive unit.

I also like the increased bunker building time, it would probably make 12hat more possible.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
All-Star Invitational
03:00
Day 2
Rogue vs OliveiraLIVE!
herO vs Reynor
WardiTV1236
WinterStarcraft676
PiGStarcraft541
BRAT_OK 183
IndyStarCraft 146
EnkiAlexander 85
3DClanTV 78
IntoTheiNu 13
LiquipediaDiscussion
AI Arena Tournament
20:00
Swiss - Round 2
Laughngamez YouTube
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft676
PiGStarcraft541
BRAT_OK 183
IndyStarCraft 146
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 7214
Shuttle 1316
EffOrt 521
ggaemo 313
Pusan 250
ZergMaN 44
yabsab 35
ajuk12(nOOB) 29
Larva 19
Models 10
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 778
C9.Mang0591
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King80
Other Games
summit1g7408
minikerr27
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1829
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 81
• practicex 22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt561
Other Games
• Scarra3397
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h
OSC
5h
Shameless vs NightMare
YoungYakov vs MaNa
Nicoract vs Jumy
Gerald vs TBD
Creator vs TBD
BSL 21
13h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs DuGu
Dewalt vs Bonyth
IPSL
13h
Dewalt vs Sziky
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Wardi Open
1d 5h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 10h
The PondCast
3 days
Big Brain Bouts
5 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.