EPTSwitching from SC2 to BW
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DerpDog
Korea (North)62 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
FS D/D- ZvP u P Most of the time you will have a < 170 APM opponent. Also, don't host weird maps, the only maps you should host are Fighting Spirit, Python, Destination. No low-level player will play you in weird maps. | ||
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Silentness
United States2821 Posts
It just takes time and persistence. People still answer questions and reply to replays if you post them in the BW strategy section. You just have to show some effort in finding out why you lost by yourself before someone will comment. Don't upload a replay if it clearly shows you supply capped the whole game, with 3K minerals or something crazy that anyone can obviously tell you have to work on your macro. If you truly are stumped at why you lost the game... upload it up and we'll be happy to help you go over the game. PS: This is a tough Iccup season... "D" level is pretty broad right now. D- is obviously a lot easier, but from D through D+ you'll be playing some smurfs/new accounts or just generally good players. Most people playing BW are hardcore fans to the game it's not like SC2 where people that never even played an RTS before just jump into the game and instantly get thrown into the bronze league. Iccup isn't really meant for beginners... I mean yeah there is D- & E rank, but there are not that many of those type players. You can get to D+ if you just focus on your build orders/micro/macro and study your weaknesses. It's not that hard... Don't let the D level get you down. You're not the only one that thinks D rank is tough. | ||
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Exchange
131 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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Darth Saros
Czech Republic245 Posts
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
Go to channel "op teamliquid" and ask for practice games with people there, or obv others play, it helps alot. Also it's never too late. Things like game sense, timing, and macro will naturally come as you play more and more. For now, read liquipedia for some opening builds, and try the ones you like. Don't worry about winning and losing, just focus on making sure you're using all the resources. Watching your own replays can really help in identifying what you're doing wrong and where you need to improve. | ||
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DerpDog
Korea (North)62 Posts
It's just frustrating when I keep getting people who are obviously not D level players, and I don't learn the way I would with practice partners who can "get the feel" for a matchup the way I do in SC2. I did play enough SC2 to have very one-sided games against some D+ players (I had some who just stay on two bases, never attack and never expand beyond their natural), but then I get owned badly three times in a row by the smurfs I already mentioned, and I know that it's usually because of inferior micro / macro, but the skill gap is so big I don't think that means I should work on my ling micro to hold 2 gates, when I barely understand how the match ups work in general. So, how do I avoid smurf accounts on iCCup, and would it be a good idea to find people to play with consistently? If so, where do I find active ones? | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On January 23 2011 20:46 DerpDog wrote: I can't host right now unfortunately, but I'm going to try and get my internet fixed. Perhaps that would help? I always join games, and try to stick to the maps I know (FS, Python, Destination, Blue Storm etc). I did play a lot of SC2, and while mechanics are a lot different in the two games, I don't feel like that's my biggest problem. I have read the "How to improve" guide, as well as the zerg beginner guide. It's just frustrating when I keep getting people who are obviously not D level players, and I don't learn the way I would with practice partners who can "get the feel" for a matchup the way I do in SC2. I did play enough SC2 to have very one-sided games against some D+ players (I had some who just stay on two bases, never attack and never expand beyond their natural), but then I get owned badly three times in a row by the smurfs I already mentioned, and I know that it's usually because of inferior micro / macro, but the skill gap is so big I don't think that means I should work on my ling micro to hold 2 gates, when I barely understand how the match ups work in general. So, how do I avoid smurf accounts on iCCup, and would it be a good idea to find people to play with consistently? If so, where do I find active ones? As long you ladder on iccup you will meet smurft it is inevitable its a part of learning process in iccup like the wilderness where the big fishes eat the small fishes and you as the small fish has to grow big to fight back the bullies . Good luck get some friends to play with you and keep practicing with them and get better than come back for laddering . | ||
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GeckoVOD
Germany814 Posts
Try that thread, try to add them, try to see if you get some in MSN or try to idle that chan. It's not really full all the time, but around 20:00-01:00 the chan is quite full | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9497 Posts
On January 23 2011 20:46 DerpDog wrote: So, how do I avoid smurf accounts on iCCup, and would it be a good idea to find people to play with consistently? If so, where do I find active ones? This is definitely what you should do now. Find people who are willing to practice with you and even if you find way better people than you, you can still learn a lot from them if they give you tips and guidance. You can find such people in op Teamliquid channel on iCCup or as someone already mentioned iCCup Training Program (although I never was in that channel so I can't say how it looks like). But I can definitely say that in op Teamliquid people are willing to help other people even if they are way better than them. There are always people in op Teamliquid, but sometimes they are all afk so it might take some time, but not too much. Good luck. | ||
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
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virpi
Germany3598 Posts
/rl 600 1200 only players with a rating between 600 and 1200 will see your game, so it becomes a lot easier for you to play against bad players. if you want to avoid smurfs, just don't play against people with ratings like 1000, 1130, 1260 and so on. finally, always remember that most human beings with a [KR]-tag are in fact starcraft robots from outer space. | ||
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
On January 23 2011 20:46 DerpDog wrote: I can't host right now unfortunately, but I'm going to try and get my internet fixed. Perhaps that would help? Yeah from my experience newbies tend to join and smurfs tend to host, so if you host you will less likely face a smurf. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
On January 23 2011 21:13 virpi wrote: if you are able to host games, use this command in the chat: /rl 600 1200 only players with a rating between 600 and 1200 will see your game, so it becomes a lot easier for you to play against bad players. if you want to avoid smurfs, just don't play against people with ratings like 1000, 1130, 1260 and so on. finally, always remember that most human beings with a [KR]-tag are in fact starcraft robots from outer space. Rofl that's exactly what I did to dodge Koreans. If u see the tag kr and they have a points like 1120, 1260 etc just dodge them. No fun gettig raped | ||
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Nazza
Australia1654 Posts
On January 23 2011 20:30 kamikami wrote: You should host yourself : Host a name like this : FS D/D- ZvP u P Most of the time you will have a < 170 APM opponent. Also, don't host weird maps, the only maps you should host are Fighting Spirit, Python, Destination. No low-level player will play you in weird maps. I had a friend who was a fan of Flash who hosted a map on Benzene. He 14 cc'ed whilst the opponent 1 based and built 14 photon cannons.... This was obviously in D.... | ||
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
On January 23 2011 21:45 Nazza wrote: I had a friend who was a fan of Flash who hosted a map on Benzene. He 14 cc'ed whilst the opponent 1 based and built 14 photon cannons.... This was obviously in D.... Lol that guy is not even low-level, he obviously doesn't know which map is weird and which map is not, so it doesn't count. | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2748 Posts
On January 23 2011 21:45 Nazza wrote: I had a friend who was a fan of Flash who hosted a map on Benzene. He 14 cc'ed whilst the opponent 1 based and built 14 photon cannons.... This was obviously in D.... Well my grandpa is 92 and he smokes so smoking doesn't kill you. To the OP: it is never too late. It is hard however. It takes a few months of getting owned on iccup but once you get your strategy tighter you will start to take games left and right. Look in the stickied topics in the broodwar strategy section to help you further. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8641 Posts
but other than that its good to see you have decided to stay away from the dark side. sc2 sucks more than iccup does | ||
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sammler
United Kingdom381 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
There actually are many, many 250+ apm players that are legitly D to C-, it's not like they all are smurfs, some players just play fast. I'd just keep playing. Even if you lose to the better players, at least you get better. You really should aim to have 250+ apm yourself instead of just saying they all just are noobstompers or something, since the APM really is crucial in SCBW in comparison to SC2. | ||
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DerpDog
Korea (North)62 Posts
I will try to get my internet fixed so I can host games. Yeah, mechanics I can practice against the AI pretty much (and I do)! But again it's not my biggest problem (yes I know how important they are and that's why I focus on it 100% in SC2, except in SC2 it's more useful to practice boxing your workers and A-move). I don't have very good mechanics of course, but I don't think more APM would help me as much as having some idea of what to do. Besides, I think it's hard to have good mechanics without having good game sense along with it? | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Kipsate is my ID | ||
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HudsonK
China172 Posts
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Voidsoul
Germany154 Posts
 ) just because of a few games with Lightwip and a few games that he obsed. Thank you VERY much, btw! It's not only the friendly un-point-whory athmosphere, but people actually discuss games with you afterwards and give great advice. If you like, you can also add me (though I frequent the op teamliquid channel quite often). I play Protoss and should be able to give at least some advice. My IDs are Void[soul] and Caldaryn. I play at weird times though...It's really nice to see people actually coming from SC2 here. BW is hard atm, just don't let those smurfs discourage you. They don't deserve that much attention  | ||
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
They can just allow 1 smurf account for D+ player, 2 smurf accounts for C-\C players, 3 for C+\B, 4 for B\B+...., that way the good players can still practice off-race or new build but they cannot bash noobs using their main race anymore. | ||
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GeckoVOD
Germany814 Posts
On January 23 2011 23:14 kamikami wrote: I hope that iCCup staff will change the smurfing policy so that everyone who love Broodwar can play on iCCup. They can just allow 1 smurf account for D+ player, 2 smurf accounts for C-\C players, 3 for C+\B, 4 for B\B+...., that way the good players can still practice off-race or new build but they cannot bash noobs using their main race anymore. Do you really think we had the ressources to check each D player for smurfs, even if we agreed on such a policy? | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia918 Posts
.Anyhow, iccup's not your best bet for starting out - that is, if you care even a bit about losing consistantly. I've wrote this before, but this should be a good way to progress for a total beginner player: 1)Play AI. If you can beat 3 alone, without abusing static defense beyond the 1st attack(sunken/lurk, cannons, lots of tanks, etc), you're set to go online. Seeing as you have decent mechanics already you probably can skip this step. 2)Play on U.S.East. That's the weakest official server, if you stick to "1vs1 Python noobs" games, aside from occasional smurf, you'll be mostly getting players who don't even use hotkeys well, in 100-150 apm ranges. Have >50% win rate? Drop the "noobs" from the game title. 3)Still have >50% win rate? Add "good" to game title. Go on to Europe or U.S.West. Play other maps; for example, on Destination or Fighting Spirit on public b.net you'll meet players stronger than on Python. Now, I can't really tell about West, but Europe public games should range from D- to C- in skill level. 4)After having a decent win rate at previous stage, you totally can go on to iccup and get to ~C- without much trouble. Or you could stay on official servers and play some play/obs - it's kind of a lottery from D- to C+, though. Better off going straight to iccup. Figure out where you are on this list, and continiue from there. Or you could stay on iccup, meet some fellow tl.net beginners, and practice with them, etc. Just remember that playing people who demolish you has both advantages and disadvantages: your gameplay will be crisp(as they kill you for first mistake), but your motivation could go down, fear, thinking it's impossible, etc. | ||
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
On January 23 2011 23:32 Gecko[Xp] wrote: Do you really think we had the ressources to check each D player for smurfs, even if we agreed on such a policy? for each (IP_address) list_accounts = get_accounts(IP_address)) if (list_account.size > 1) max_rank = get_max_rank(list_account) if (max_rank = D+) and (list_account.size > 2) --> return smurf. if (max_rank = C) and (list_account.size > 3) --> return smurf etc... Also, if the player has the good reason for smurf, he can contact an administrator/mod, to get his "smurf checking" flag disabled. If you play Ogame you can see they use this system to protect newbies and to prevent cheating. On January 23 2011 23:44 2Pacalypse- wrote: I think you would need to include cookies here as well, because some people (like me!) have dynamic IP address -.- Exactly, in this case you contact an admin to get your "smurf checking" flag disabled. That's how it works in some online game. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9497 Posts
On January 23 2011 23:39 kamikami wrote: for each (IP_address) list_accounts = get_accounts(IP_address)) if (list_account.size > 1) max_rank = get_max_rank(list_account) if (max_rank = D+) and (list_account.size > 2) --> return smurf. I think you would need to include cookies here as well, because some people (like me!) have dynamic IP address -.- | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9497 Posts
On January 23 2011 23:38 Soulforged wrote: + Show Spoiler + This season, on my way to ~C+, I doubt I met what I'd consider a less-than-C ranked player more than a couple times - in ~30 games. Feels like with SC2, the lower tier players mostly dissapeared; or it could be just the timezone(koreans durr hurr). Saw nearly no players below 180 apm .Anyhow, iccup's not your best bet for starting out - that is, if you care even a bit about losing consistantly. I've wrote this before, but this should be a good way to progress for a total beginner player: 1)Play AI. If you can beat 3 alone, without abusing static defense beyond the 1st attack(sunken/lurk, cannons, lots of tanks, etc), you're set to go online. Seeing as you have decent mechanics already you probably can skip this step. 2)Play on U.S.East. That's the weakest official server, if you stick to "1vs1 Python noobs" games, aside from occasional smurf, you'll be mostly getting players who don't even use hotkeys well, in 100-150 apm ranges. Have >50% win rate? Drop the "noobs" from the game title. 3)Still have >50% win rate? Add "good" to game title. Go on to Europe or U.S.West. Play other maps; for example, on Destination or Fighting Spirit on public b.net you'll meet players stronger than on Python. Now, I can't really tell about West, but Europe public games should range from D- to C- in skill level. 4)After having a decent win rate at previous stage, you totally can go on to iccup and get to ~C- without much trouble. Or you could stay on official servers and play some play/obs - it's kind of a lottery from D- to C+, though. Better off going straight to iccup. Figure out where you are on this list, and continiue from there. Or you could stay on iccup, meet some fellow tl.net beginners, and practice with them, etc. Just remember that playing people who demolish you has both advantages and disadvantages: your gameplay will be crisp(as they kill you for first mistake), but your motivation could go down, fear, thinking it's impossible, etc. This is the best advice I've read so far in any thread similar to this one! | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On January 23 2011 23:48 2Pacalypse- wrote: This is the best advice I've read so far in any thread similar to this one! going to try this next time i play! just hope cafes here have better ISP than the one i was playing 25kbps DL speed average FTW! | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
On January 23 2011 23:38 Soulforged wrote: This season, on my way to ~C+, I doubt I met what I'd consider a less-than-C ranked player more than a couple times - in ~30 games. Feels like with SC2, the lower tier players mostly dissapeared; or it could be just the timezone(koreans durr hurr). Saw nearly no players below 180 apm .Anyhow, iccup's not your best bet for starting out - that is, if you care even a bit about losing consistantly. I've wrote this before, but this should be a good way to progress for a total beginner player: 1)Play AI. If you can beat 3 alone, without abusing static defense beyond the 1st attack(sunken/lurk, cannons, lots of tanks, etc), you're set to go online. Seeing as you have decent mechanics already you probably can skip this step. 2)Play on U.S.East. That's the weakest official server, if you stick to "1vs1 Python noobs" games, aside from occasional smurf, you'll be mostly getting players who don't even use hotkeys well, in 100-150 apm ranges. Have >50% win rate? Drop the "noobs" from the game title. 3)Still have >50% win rate? Add "good" to game title. Go on to Europe or U.S.West. Play other maps; for example, on Destination or Fighting Spirit on public b.net you'll meet players stronger than on Python. Now, I can't really tell about West, but Europe public games should range from D- to C- in skill level. 4)After having a decent win rate at previous stage, you totally can go on to iccup and get to ~C- without much trouble. Or you could stay on official servers and play some play/obs - it's kind of a lottery from D- to C+, though. Better off going straight to iccup. Figure out where you are on this list, and continiue from there. Or you could stay on iccup, meet some fellow tl.net beginners, and practice with them, etc. Just remember that playing people who demolish you has both advantages and disadvantages: your gameplay will be crisp(as they kill you for first mistake), but your motivation could go down, fear, thinking it's impossible, etc. This is great advice. However, without being able to host it is pretty damn annoying finding games on west, I'm not sure about east or europe becuase I dont go there ever. Hunters can be really fun although strategically its only a step up from playing the ai. You should probably just ignore any assumptions that come to your mind when you see someones rank. Even the bad players are good right now, I really don't think much of it is actually smurfs. Forget rank and don't even think about climbing. Just play for the sake of that overwhelmingly satisfying rush that happens when you finally win for the first time against some strategy that has owned you for the longest time. | ||
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dras
Kazakhstan376 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
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dhe95
United States1213 Posts
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gongryong
Korea (South)1430 Posts
On January 23 2011 22:11 evilfatsh1t wrote: yeah iccup is a bitch. takes ages to actually improve on iccup as well...since you just get assraped by B/C players and you have to self review all the stuff you did wrong but other than that its good to see you have decided to stay away from the dark side. sc2 sucks more than iccup does hehehe. everyone should say this to the "crossovers" xD | ||
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Count9
China10928 Posts
On January 23 2011 22:22 Shikyo wrote: Iccup really isn't your best bet if you're just starting off, it's incredibly difficult. Even solid D level is easily equivalent to high Diamond in SC2 and you also are going to require around 150 apm at least in order to get to D+ and higher with most races(depending on playstyle, might not need that much with Protoss). There actually are many, many 250+ apm players that are legitly D to C-, it's not like they all are smurfs, some players just play fast. I'd just keep playing. Even if you lose to the better players, at least you get better. You really should aim to have 250+ apm yourself instead of just saying they all just are noobstompers or something, since the APM really is crucial in SCBW in comparison to SC2. D level is actually master's league in SC2. But I agree with everything else in this post. It might feel shitty getting smashed 100 games in a row, but if you play better players you will improve, albeit not as quickly as if you had a couple practice partners. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
My advice to you is to find some other SC2 players to come back to BW with you and have some fun games. Try to develop a rivalry with one of them, and have fun. I've ranted about ladder before. It's a very specific activity that tests you, and it's not really fun in and of itself (it really depends on you and your attitude). However, playing with friends is always fun, so get some to come back with you. You don't have to be B- or even C- to have fun with BroodWar. Those ranks actually mean something competition wise, it's not like Masters in SC2 where everyone can be it if they have a little RTS experience. edit: Game sense and understanding are so much more important than APM. | ||
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dras
Kazakhstan376 Posts
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night terrors
China1284 Posts
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
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Capulet
Canada686 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9497 Posts
On January 24 2011 00:33 Chef wrote: D rank is hard on iCCup. It's not like SC2 where Blizzard coddles you and gives you shiny ranks and makes sure you'll never play against people better than you. Legit D rank players really do have 200 apm. They really are noobs. They will not make it to C rank by the end of the season. I've played against D players with 250 APM, and let me tell you, they are still bad despite that APM. Perhaps because of that APM. The competition just isn't as soft as it is in SC2. SC2 Master is not going to really translate to anything in BW, the way C rank BW translates to SC2 god. My advice to you is to find some other SC2 players to come back to BW with you and have some fun games. Try to develop a rivalry with one of them, and have fun. I've ranted about ladder before. It's a very specific activity that tests you, and it's not really fun in and of itself (it really depends on you and your attitude). However, playing with friends is always fun, so get some to come back with you. You don't have to be B- or even C- to have fun with BroodWar. Those ranks actually mean something competition wise, it's not like Masters in SC2 where everyone can be it if they have a little RTS experience. edit: Game sense and understanding are so much more important than APM. but... but I thought nothing is ever in and of itself? | ||
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Silentness
United States2821 Posts
On January 23 2011 21:13 virpi wrote: if you are able to host games, use this command in the chat: /rl 600 1200 only players with a rating between 600 and 1200 will see your game, so it becomes a lot easier for you to play against bad players. if you want to avoid smurfs, just don't play against people with ratings like 1000, 1130, 1260 and so on. finally, always remember that most human beings with a [KR]-tag are in fact starcraft robots from outer space. funny thing is I actually had to get my [KR] tag removed and replaced with USA. Just my job moved me to Korea, but I'm not even a Korean American. I had so many people dodge me that I had to get my country tag changed by one of the Iccup mods. <3 On January 23 2011 22:22 Shikyo wrote: Iccup really isn't your best bet if you're just starting off, it's incredibly difficult. Even solid D level is easily equivalent to high Diamond in SC2 and you also are going to require around 150 apm at least in order to get to D+ and higher with most races(depending on playstyle, might not need that much with Protoss). There actually are many, many 250+ apm players that are legitly D to C-, it's not like they all are smurfs, some players just play fast. I'd just keep playing. Even if you lose to the better players, at least you get better. You really should aim to have 250+ apm yourself instead of just saying they all just are noobstompers or something, since the APM really is crucial in SCBW in comparison to SC2. lolz I got to D+ as Terran with only 120 APM APM is definitely key in Brood War, but eAPM is more important than just spamming buttons over and over to look "gosu". I hope everyone is using BWrepinfo it's my Starcraft crack. I look at it after every game to see how much eAPM I have and my opponents. BW Chart is nice too. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
Also, BNet can be fun, but there are (were at least) obviously a lot of hackers... | ||
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nK)Duke
Germany936 Posts
dude, keep it simple. D players are bad, but still better than many of the master league gamers. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On January 24 2011 00:30 Count9 wrote: D level is actually master's league in SC2. But I agree with everything else in this post. It might feel shitty getting smashed 100 games in a row, but if you play better players you will improve, albeit not as quickly as if you had a couple practice partners. No, I was D+ on iccup, and still beat a few D+ players when i played them after sc2 came out, and Im not even high diamond. Im barely even mid diamond (2400) and thats playing PROTOSS | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
On January 24 2011 02:13 TheAntZ wrote: No, I was D+ on iccup, and still beat a few D+ players when i played them after sc2 came out, and Im not even high diamond. Im barely even mid diamond (2400) and thats playing PROTOSS Ya I was platinum toss in sc2 and am D currently and beating about half my opponents (if you ignore my first 5 games after sc2 which were all devestating losses). I could make a claim that platinum in sc2 = D in BW, but then I would be ommiting that I played sc2 online no more than 20-25 times, never cheesed, played a race that I basicly never ever used in BW, and just kinda BS'd my way into all of my wins by making up builds on the spot. Im curious why you were mid diamond and why these D+ players were D+. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
Don't be discouraged just because they are better. Be happy that you have access to 250 apm people to play with. All it takes is dedication and patience. | ||
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QuothTheRaven
United States5524 Posts
On January 24 2011 02:13 TheAntZ wrote: No, I was D+ on iccup, and still beat a few D+ players when i played them after sc2 came out, and Im not even high diamond. Im barely even mid diamond (2400) and thats playing PROTOSS It varies from person to person. I have two friends who were middle to low D level players, and they're both fairly high in Masters league SC2. If you have the mechanics to be a solid D level iCCup player, then you have the mechanics to make it to masters league in SC2. Whether you do or not is only dependent on how much time you're willing to devote to learning strategies and getting a feel for the game. | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
One way I'd say to develop solider mechanics is to play 1v7 Fastest against computers, and keep your timings tight as possible and money as low as you can (until you hit 200/200 I guess). It's a good way to improve your macro, but try to incorporate some harass-based play so you get used to controlling stuff while base managing | ||
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djcube
United States985 Posts
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therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
But u didnt tell us wht ur apm Why dont u start in 2v2 I believe people dont smurf in those... | ||
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Monkeyshark
United States406 Posts
On January 24 2011 09:07 therockmanxx wrote: D- is like diamond in sc2 right?? But u didnt tell us wht ur apm Why dont u start in 2v2 I believe people dont smurf in those... lol yes D- is like Diamond because I am D- and Diamond in sc2(haven't played in a month). | ||
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
when i started on iccup i hit a fair bit of the smurfs. The trick is learning to spot them. Firstly, if they're korean, there is a 90% chance they're not a "legit D". They're just some B who's starting that account for the season. So ban them. Is the persons rating a "whole" number, like 1000 1130 1100 etc, if so, ban. Still suspicious? ask them to wait for 1 min plz and go look up their account on iccup.com. Usually you can see their past rank and games played and make assumptions from there. If theres no history just go. Losing isn't the end of the world afterall how else do you learn. Just keep on trucking and you'll get there | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On January 24 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote: dont start in 2v2...stick to 1v1 for the learning process. when i started on iccup i hit a fair bit of the smurfs. The trick is learning to spot them. Firstly, if they're korean, there is a 90% chance they're not a "legit D". They're just some B who's starting that account for the season. So ban them. Is the persons rating a "whole" number, like 1000 1130 1100 etc, if so, ban. Still suspicious? ask them to wait for 1 min plz and go look up their account on iccup.com. Usually you can see their past rank and games played and make assumptions from there. If theres no history just go. Losing isn't the end of the world afterall how else do you learn. Just keep on trucking and you'll get there To be honest, I just play them. It's good for pointing out glaring inadequacies in your own play. | ||
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
Sometimes I lose badly and think the guy was really good, then I check his iccup profile and see he was not a smurf or anything and that's he's just a D+ player. Also don't focus too much on APM, there are a lot of people spamming. I defeated a peruvian zerg yesterday he had 410 APM and is D high lol. Of course it's totally different at the beginning of the season ! The thing is, losing in BW is enjoyable, winning is orgasmic, so keep training :D edit : btw you're in my friend list on iccup, so I guess we already played together ? | ||
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
On January 23 2011 22:22 Shikyo wrote: Iccup really isn't your best bet if you're just starting off, it's incredibly difficult. Even solid D level is easily equivalent to high Diamond in SC2 and you also are going to require around 150 apm at least in order to get to D+ and higher with most races(depending on playstyle, might not need that much with Protoss). There actually are many, many 250+ apm players that are legitly D to C-, it's not like they all are smurfs, some players just play fast. I'd just keep playing. Even if you lose to the better players, at least you get better. You really should aim to have 250+ apm yourself instead of just saying they all just are noobstompers or something, since the APM really is crucial in SCBW in comparison to SC2. Kwark is B- with less than 150 APM. Just wanted to point that out I got to D+ with 90 APM or so | ||
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
On January 24 2011 11:38 xxpack09 wrote: Kwark is B- with less than 150 APM. Just wanted to point that out I got to D+ with 90 APM or so Let me guess. You and Kwark both play Protoss. Protoss takes the least APM to play at low levels and win. Terran takes the most APM and game sense at low levels to win. Even at higher levels Protoss requires the least amount of APM to play successfully, though all races at high levels require an incredible amount of game sense. | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
I think analyzing pro replays is also something you should spend an awful amount of time doing. | ||
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iskynebula
United States64 Posts
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
Hope that helps! | ||
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therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
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CrownRoyal
Vatican City State1872 Posts
im pretty sure I can get C rank with 100apm | ||
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DerpDog
Korea (North)62 Posts
I don't think it's that a lot of APM = a good player, but that good players often have higher APM. Anyone can spam a lot sure, but having more effective APM is a decent indication of at least mechanical skill, is it not? | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On January 24 2011 00:14 sluggaslamoo wrote: Plenty of D players who have 250+ apm. I'm one of those. How? What's the APM for? Spamming through hotkeys? On January 24 2011 23:11 CrownRoyal wrote: i havent played bw in ages but im positive APM doesnt mean nearly as much as you nerds think it does lol im pretty sure I can get C rank with 100apm I'm pretty sure you can't unless you're gonna cheese. Even with Protoss the macro and controlling army is going to take a lot more than 100. Do you realize the skill level of C? Nobody has ever got there with 100apm, no chance. Yes Kwark got to B- with 150apm but afaik he cheeses a lot and that's basically the bare minimum APM you need with Protoss to keep up control (I'm 140 myself and pushing myself the extra would definitely be the difference). | ||
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purpose
Sweden1017 Posts
People just work so hard to get easy win so that they can get better stats and perhaps also work there way up abit. lame as hell! | ||
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PUPATREE
340 Posts
And I hit C- with ~105apm as zerg a couple seasons back. have to say though- while apm definitely isn't everything, my speed (or lack thereof) holds back my play much more than anything else right now. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On January 23 2011 22:11 evilfatsh1t wrote: yeah iccup is a bitch. takes ages to actually improve on iccup as well...since you just get assraped by B/C players and you have to self review all the stuff you did wrong but other than that its good to see you have decided to stay away from the dark side. sc2 sucks more than iccup does That's how you actually get better. If you constantly get stomped by B players then you will learn more than getting beat by C players. OP, the game is so developed that it will take some time to get good. | ||
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CrownRoyal
Vatican City State1872 Posts
On January 24 2011 23:34 infinity2k9 wrote: How? What's the APM for? Spamming through hotkeys? I'm pretty sure you can't unless you're gonna cheese. Even with Protoss the macro and controlling army is going to take a lot more than 100. Do you realize the skill level of C? Nobody has ever got there with 100apm, no chance. Yes Kwark got to B- with 150apm but afaik he cheeses a lot and that's basically the bare minimum APM you need with Protoss to keep up control (I'm 140 myself and pushing myself the extra would definitely be the difference). if i cared enough i would prove you wrong and get c rank with all games below 120apm unless bw got drastically harder since PGT i was B+ with 120ish apm maybe i cant even get C rank now lol | ||
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therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
Apm is important to know your current state of this | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On January 25 2011 00:04 CrownRoyal wrote: if i cared enough i would prove you wrong and get c rank with all games below 120apm unless bw got drastically harder since PGT i was B+ with 120ish apm maybe i cant even get C rank now lol Hahaha, are you kidding, of course PGT was easier. PGT is like 2004/2005... I would be a top foreigner if I could go back in time to that era. | ||
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CrownRoyal
Vatican City State1872 Posts
its just u can macro 95% efficiently with 50apm and u dont need to spam | ||
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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
Just play. Same advice goes for the whole ICCup difficulty ranking. You'll win some, you'll lose some. Just keep at it. Best ways to improve are of course watching pros, practicing a basic build order until you feel comfortable and mass gaming,be sure to take breaks though Welcome to BW! | ||
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lastreason
Romania250 Posts
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
On January 24 2011 23:11 CrownRoyal wrote: i havent played bw in ages but im positive APM doesnt mean nearly as much as you nerds think it does lol im pretty sure I can get C rank with 100apm That's because you play protoss. You can get to B with 100 apm with protoss. 1a2a3a4a | ||
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No_eL
Chile1438 Posts
On January 25 2011 01:53 Tien wrote: That's because you play protoss. You can get to B with 100 apm with protoss. 1a2a3a4a lol annoying trolls 4ever ! -_- u switched to sc2 really? if u don´t, u need to reconsidered that... trolls and fags are there now they have more spotlight u know? | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On January 25 2011 00:04 CrownRoyal wrote: if i cared enough i would prove you wrong and get c rank with all games below 120apm unless bw got drastically harder since PGT i was B+ with 120ish apm maybe i cant even get C rank now lol really, without doing any strategic play and always going for the standard game? | ||
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CrownRoyal
Vatican City State1872 Posts
im gonna download bw | ||
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QuothTheRaven
United States5524 Posts
On January 25 2011 00:04 CrownRoyal wrote: if i cared enough i would prove you wrong and get c rank with all games below 120apm unless bw got drastically harder since PGT i was B+ with 120ish apm maybe i cant even get C rank now lol BW has gotten drastically harder since PGT. It's certainly possible that you could get C rank on iCCup, but being B+ on PGT doesn't really mean anything at all. At any rate, good luck! I'd recommend cheesing a lot--playing standard is extremely difficult and takes a ton of time to learn, and you don't seem particularly interested in that. If you're used to playing in the PGT days then "cheesing" (by modern standards) should be 2nd nature | ||
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Ideas
United States8088 Posts
On January 25 2011 00:50 TheGlassface wrote: It's really weird seeing all the racism going on against Koreans...even if it's a compliment it's still stereotyping. Just because they're Korean doesn't make them automatically equipped with a +5 Brood War skill. Just play. Same advice goes for the whole ICCup difficulty ranking. You'll win some, you'll lose some. Just keep at it. Best ways to improve are of course watching pros, practicing a basic build order until you feel comfortable and mass gaming,be sure to take breaks though Welcome to BW! yea koreans really arent THAT much better. especially later in the season people generally get to their true rank. although it is true that everyone is harder during korean peak hours.... but as long as you dont play during that time you should be fine lol. dont dodge koreans if you get a game with them. really there still arent enough people on ICCUP nowadays (even though it seems to be growing again) where you can take getting a game fast for granted. sometimes it still takes me 5+ minutes to find a game. At the point I'll play anyone from anywhere in any matchup lol. just be glad you got a match | ||
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
Edit : And he actually GG after the game, unlike numerous foreigners who have no sense of sportsmanship. | ||
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Armathai
1023 Posts
For the whole APM discussion going on. APM is a helpful quality and it certainly doesn't hurt to be fast, however you can overcome an APM disadvantage through superior game sense, strats etc. Don't go crazy over APM though, I started off at 90, thinking I'd never get faster and got around 140~ now as T and beat protoss' with 200+ apm, its not a measure of skill. Edit: Wanted to add that playing koreans is great! Most koreans I've played against have opened standard against me and just outplayed me to shit, but its the best kind of practice. | ||
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MagnusHyperion
United States288 Posts
Seriously, this is game is hard because you are essentially being thrown into the mix against 12 years of development and people who have been playing for 2 years and legitimate D+ level players. My advice to you is work on your mechanics and fundamentals (macro, building placement, economy management, and multitasking) before you even try to ladder! ICCUP is serious business to a lot of people so tread lightly. | ||
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WhuazGoodJaggah
Lesotho777 Posts
On January 25 2011 01:53 Tien wrote: That's because you play protoss. You can get to B with 100 apm with protoss. 1a2a3a4a muahahaha, winning with T at a low level is sooo much more easy than with P. AS T you can stay on 2 bases which you get very early very easy. you can simply wait until the toss attacks your stuff which will happen at that level very soon and then A move in to his base. until that happens just scan all his expansions and kill all the probes with 6-12 vultures, maybe do it with a dropship. you need 0 micro (except sige and maybe some mines) to win battle you can even clump the tanks np. as T you dont need to care about the map (except scan for easy to raid expansions) at all your 2 bases is all you need to control and a raid group here and there. you can do all of that with like 80 APM User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
On January 25 2011 04:29 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote: .muahahaha, winning with T at a low level is sooo much more easy than with P. AS T you can stay on 2 bases which you get very early very easy. you can simply wait until the toss attacks your stuff which will happen at that level very soon and then A move in to his base. until that happens just scan all his expansions and kill all the probes with 6-12 vultures, maybe do it with a dropship. you need 0 micro (except sige and maybe some mines) to win battle you can even clump the tanks np. as T you dont need to care about the map (except scan for easy to raid expansions) at all your 2 bases is all you need to control and a raid group here and there. you can do all of that with like 80 APM User was temp banned for this post. I wish there was some way I could show my gratitude to the mod that handled this post so quickly. | ||
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terranissharin
37 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On January 25 2011 02:52 CrownRoyal wrote: okay im gonna download bw Sweet, I am a C protoss and I guarantee you would not beat me with 120 APM... Cheese is the only way you would stand a chance but even then it is hard to do. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia918 Posts
Now, there is a ton of cheesy one or two-base strategies that require ~C skill to execute and ~B skill to hold against(with a 80%+ win rate, that is, not 50%). For someone who got B+ in PGT days, getting C in current iccup won't be a problem. These days, older strategies mostly are either considered allinish, or are so uncommon that not very many players know how to play against them. That, altogether, should constitute for a win rate higher than 35%. Now getting back to B+, that'd be tricky. Yellow ranks are a level of mechanics and execution, blue ranks are of strategy and expirience/adaptation(unless you do veeery abusive stuff). With opponents not getting caught off guard and more points lost per game loss, it's completely different deal. | ||
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hellbound
United Kingdom2242 Posts
On January 25 2011 06:04 GreEny K wrote: Sweet, I am a C protoss and I guarantee you would not beat me with 120 APM... Cheese is the only way you would stand a chance but even then it is hard to do. One can open good old 3hat muta and kill an unprepared protoss with 120 APM, even at C level this can happen a lot. But  !!!Getting back to topic yes iccup is swamped with smurfs and I hope that will get addressed somehow in the near future. I actually find D+ a lot easier than D. For beginners who can't handle loosing constantly (which is perfectly normal) I'd suggest looking for like minded individuals they could train with and playing non ladder games/obs'ing, op tramliquid channel on iccup is one place where one can look for that. See you there. | ||
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
On January 23 2011 20:30 kamikami wrote: You should host yourself : Host a name like this : FS D/D- ZvP u P Most of the time you will have a < 170 APM opponent. Also, don't host weird maps, the only maps you should host are Fighting Spirit, Python, Destination. No low-level player will play you in weird maps. Well Pyton and Destination are imba. Fighting Spirit is fine. Try proleague maps. But seriously, Python and Destination are 'weird' maps. | ||
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Dataleif
Sweden252 Posts
On January 25 2011 06:56 Gummy wrote: Well Pyton and Destination are imba. Fighting Spirit is fine. Try proleague maps. But seriously, Python and Destination are 'weird' maps. stats for destination: TvZ: 148-137 (51.9%) [ Games ] ZvP: 170-128 (57%) [ Games ] PvT: 181-146 (55.4%) [ Games ] doesnt seem imba to me. | ||
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
On January 25 2011 06:56 Gummy wrote: Well Pyton and Destination are imba. Fighting Spirit is fine. Try proleague maps. But seriously, Python and Destination are 'weird' maps. In fact it's based on popularity, not imbalance. Low level players (me included) tend to fear trying new maps and only stick to the popular maps. To have a better chance of finding a low level opponent, host popular maps. | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
You could try hosting melee or obs games with a clear indication it is not a ladder game if malicious smurfs are really that big of a problem. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1803 Posts
i just wanted to say that being a solid D with the current stage of iccup is going to take alot of work and practice. as with many things, practice makes perfect. i could probably help you out and give you some advice and watch reps with you. i end work and am at home around 12-13 hours from the time i post this msg. here's my iccup profile. i recently managed to get to C- http://www.iccup.com/profile/view/Jmave.html | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
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Inzek
Chile802 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9497 Posts
On January 25 2011 08:51 Frigo wrote: They do not necessarily smurf due to malice, smurfing is natural on iccup due to ladder resets. Even A+ guys have to fight their way through the D ladder next season. They should really fix it some way. They could do what they did on their DotA servers. Those who were in Blue ranks last season, start new season with 2000 points and those who were in Green ranks, start new season with 3000 points (not sure is it 2000/3000 or 3000/4000, but you get my point). | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On January 25 2011 00:45 CrownRoyal wrote: what u guys dont realize is obviously im going to spike at 250+ its just u can macro 95% efficiently with 50apm and u dont need to spam I never said the problem was your APM. 150 APM is enough for B, if you're a smart player. I'm just saying B+ on PGT is not the same as iCCup. Ret, when he was doing really well at SC:BW, had trouble breaking into A- and staying there. It might be in part due to a different point system, but it's also due to the game getting a lot more demanding at all levels. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
On January 25 2011 12:12 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I used to do a lot of D- games on HBR. Me too. PvT on HBR was imba at low levels where the Terran didn't have the micro to do a strong macro build. Without a ramp, 10-15 gate delayed the expansion waaaaay too long. Dropships were rape tho. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On January 25 2011 16:46 Gummy wrote: Me too. PvT on HBR was imba at low levels where the Terran didn't have the micro to do a strong macro build. Without a ramp, 10-15 gate delayed the expansion waaaaay too long. Dropships were rape tho. i hate those ridges .. FS all the way! | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1547 Posts
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [WHY?] + just got rolled play more iccup guys .. 1 question .. every people with [KR] tag are really from korea? | ||
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
On January 25 2011 16:46 Gummy wrote: Me too. PvT on HBR was imba at low levels where the Terran didn't have the micro to do a strong macro build. Without a ramp, 10-15 gate delayed the expansion waaaaay too long. Dropships were rape tho. Yea HBR was brutal for noobie terrans. You try to secure your 3rd and 4th, place your tanks along the ridges, and then BOOM! Doom recall in your main. FUUUUUUUUU GG Fighting Spirit is much friendlier for me. Fortress is very fun too. Btw, are there any maps that are pretty beginner friendly other than FS? (and please not python) I'm talking about some of the newer maps like Empire of the Sun or Grand Line that looks pretty fun, but I haven't played on it nor do I see people host it. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On January 25 2011 18:54 don_kyuhote wrote: Yea HBR was brutal for noobie terrans. You try to secure your 3rd and 4th, place your tanks along the ridges, and then BOOM! Doom recall in your main. FUUUUUUUUU GG Fighting Spirit is much friendlier for me. Fortress is very fun too. Btw, are there any maps that are pretty beginner friendly other than FS? (and please not python) I'm talking about some of the newer maps like Empire of the Sun or Grand Line that looks pretty fun, but I haven't played on it nor do I see people host it. python seems alright whats wrong with it?? its a pretty noob friendly map | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66158 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On January 25 2011 18:44 aimaimaim wrote: 1 question .. every people with [KR] tag are really from korea? They were in KR when they registered, so pretty much yes. | ||
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DerpDog
Korea (North)62 Posts
So I really, really wanted to play BW. Loved the game and still do and never stopped watching BW VODs and commentaries. However, sadly my ISP refused to help me out with my port problem, and since my family has a business package, the router was locked and the only way to fix it was to pay 150+ euro. Just to open up the ports, and even then I wasn't sure if it would be enough. Well the good news is that after calling my ISP three times, they finally decided to open up my ports and I'll finally be able to play BW properly! Before it was rare that I would be able to join a game, and when I could, it would usually lag a lot. So far it's working for me though, and since I haven't seen any of the people who wrote in this thread online, I hope it's okay that I bump it. I'm still looking for people to play against (either noobs like me or experienced players who can help me in the right direction) and of course any advice you can give me in general would be very much appreciated! I play Terran now by the way, and joined sGs, so you can add sGsDerpDog on iCCup. Hope to cya all soon! <3 | ||
ImbaTosS
United Kingdom1685 Posts
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
yust pm me: sabas123 or sgs.sabastiaan btw was 2e in the sgs tour | ||
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
=) | ||
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Jedclark
United Kingdom903 Posts
Read liquipedia Study replays That's pretty much all you can do apart from play. | ||
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Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:01 DerpDog wrote: Sorry for bumping this thread (I know mods frown upon it, but hear me out!). So I really, really wanted to play BW. Loved the game and still do and never stopped watching BW VODs and commentaries. However, sadly my ISP refused to help me out with my port problem, and since my family has a business package, the router was locked and the only way to fix it was to pay 150+ euro. Just to open up the ports, and even then I wasn't sure if it would be enough. Well the good news is that after calling my ISP three times, they finally decided to open up my ports and I'll finally be able to play BW properly! Before it was rare that I would be able to join a game, and when I could, it would usually lag a lot. So far it's working for me though, and since I haven't seen any of the people who wrote in this thread online, I hope it's okay that I bump it. I'm still looking for people to play against (either noobs like me or experienced players who can help me in the right direction) and of course any advice you can give me in general would be very much appreciated! I play Terran now by the way, and joined sGs, so you can add sGsDerpDog on iCCup. Hope to cya all soon! <3 I thought you had quit BW and returned to SC2 actually... I'm always skeptical on these stuffs.... Glad to hear you can play BW properly now | ||
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FreshVegetables
Finland513 Posts
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DerpDog
Korea (North)62 Posts
I did return to SC2 for a couple months (last few, not after trying to play BW first time around), but eh... Honestly didn't enjoy it much at any point. I don't hate the game or anything like that, I just really prefer BW and once I started watching it, it's the only game I ever really wanted to get good at. Probably one of the reasons I used to get so angry at SC2, when I lose at BW I have a big smile on my face. :D I'm currently hovering at about 130apm when playing single player (just trying to macro). I'm not too concerned about it, I had 190 in SC2 and so far I have gone from 90ish to 130 in a few days with not that many games. So I don't think it will be my biggest problem for a while, right now I just need to pick some builds, study match ups and practice until I can do them in my sleep. Gonna focus on TvP first! Been trying to just do siege expand opening and then sort of wing it from there, but learning more every day. Might start streaming once I have some basic builds down, would be really cool to have other players point out my mistakes if they happen to watch. | ||
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Kassploj
Sweden67 Posts
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BobTheBuilder1377
Somalia335 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On October 27 2011 17:31 DerpDog wrote: Thanks guys, the BW community has always been so nice to me! I did return to SC2 for a couple months (last few, not after trying to play BW first time around), but eh... Honestly didn't enjoy it much at any point. I don't hate the game or anything like that, I just really prefer BW and once I started watching it, it's the only game I ever really wanted to get good at. Probably one of the reasons I used to get so angry at SC2, when I lose at BW I have a big smile on my face. :D I'm currently hovering at about 130apm when playing single player (just trying to macro). I'm not too concerned about it, I had 190 in SC2 and so far I have gone from 90ish to 130 in a few days with not that many games. So I don't think it will be my biggest problem for a while, right now I just need to pick some builds, study match ups and practice until I can do them in my sleep. Gonna focus on TvP first! Been trying to just do siege expand opening and then sort of wing it from there, but learning more every day. Might start streaming once I have some basic builds down, would be really cool to have other players point out my mistakes if they happen to watch. Definitely stream, we need more BW streamers With 130 apm you should be able to hit mid D. Honestly all the P's at D level are just cheesers in PvT and its just a matter of knowing how to defend against it and then rofl-stomping them with a 2 base 4 fact timing. | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
On October 27 2011 17:31 DerpDog wrote: + Show Spoiler + Thanks guys, the BW community has always been so nice to me! I did return to SC2 for a couple months (last few, not after trying to play BW first time around), but eh... Honestly didn't enjoy it much at any point. I don't hate the game or anything like that, I just really prefer BW and once I started watching it, it's the only game I ever really wanted to get good at. Probably one of the reasons I used to get so angry at SC2, when I lose at BW I have a big smile on my face. :D I'm currently hovering at about 130apm when playing single player (just trying to macro). I'm not too concerned about it, I had 190 in SC2 and so far I have gone from 90ish to 130 in a few days with not that many games. So I don't think it will be my biggest problem for a while, right now I just need to pick some builds, study match ups and practice until I can do them in my sleep. Gonna focus on TvP first! Been trying to just do siege expand opening and then sort of wing it from there, but learning more every day. Might start streaming once I have some basic builds down, would be really cool to have other players point out my mistakes if they happen to watch. Siege expand is the best build for starters but my favorite TvP build is of course FD. The build always has an impact on newbies. Also for TvP, learn how to do zealot-proof walls that aren't marine-proof so you can micro your marines around without getting hit by zealots. It works quite well when you're doing an FD, which you shouldn't be concerned about too much by now. And snipe those templars with your vultures. We should play some more in the future if you're still going with the same id (DerpDog). | ||
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DerpDog
Korea (North)62 Posts
130 APM certainly isn't a lot, but I don't feel hand speed is a problem at all right now. It's hard to have a lot of effective APM when your brain just doesn't know what to do haha, so really I am not worried about playing faster at this point. It will automatically get higher when I know what to do, at least until a point where I have to play faster (in terms of hand speed) than I did in SC2. Doesn't matter if I have 400apm if I don't know how to use it!Kassploj: Would love to play you man, but I have no idea how to write clan messages haha! My ID is sGsDerpDog and I'm in the Skype group too, so there are definitely ways to get a hold of me. :D I'm always on Skype, so just give a shout in the group! Djagulingu: Yeah I just had a look at the article on it, looks really cool! Walling and building placement is general is definitely something I need to figure out. I looked at the article for it, but still not 100% sure if I place them correctly. I'm gonna try to find some FPVODs so I can just pause and see how the pros do it and copy. My ID now is sGsDerpDog. | ||
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