EPTBlizzard and Korean Government's negotiations sour - Page 9
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
On October 07 2010 21:05 Rikstah wrote: Its not a moral highground, in any culture you got alot of nerve to be exclaiming to a government minister about your country's IP policy when all you do is make video games. While that may be, I would think that the "all you do is make video games" holds a little ground in Korea considering their circumstances regarding video games. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
E-sports will be FAR better off if neither BW nor SC2 dies off. | ||
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Red_beard
17 Posts
I think that a company claiming that recordings of people playing their game belong to it is wrong. Just like Adidas trying to destroy UEFA and take over the Championships because players are using Adidas footballs/shoes. Or the architect who planned the stadium demanding money for showing the stadium on TV. It's just not right, the game is just a tool - everyone who plays it has bought it legally, that's that. What we want to watch on TV is the players and their skill foremost. In short, it should not be possible or permissible under law for companies to claim ownerships of recordings of people using their product. If this can happen, then why can't Bosch suddenly demand that everyone pay them extra $$ for living in a house built with Bosch tools. I think this is really wrong, it destroys creativity and freedom and should simply not be possible in any legal system. Otherwise we are creating a world where more and more companies are simply weaseling money from people using obscure and annoying technological / legal solutions instead of just selling their products on clear terms. | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
you know I'm right. This is like some drunk ajjossi insisting that everyone defer to him. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On October 07 2010 15:23 snowdrift wrote: Fuck yeah For the sake of BW and the principle of not having a single entity establish a monopoly over esports, KeSPA and Korea need to win. By any means necessary. I want bribes, I want collusion between giant conglomerates and government agencies, I want stone-faced -- CJ-faced, Jaedong-staring -- Korean officials to investigate, to stall, to delay; I want judges to bring down the hammer and tear apart this extremely restrictive conception of IP rights. SC2 will exist freely, or will not exist at all. So in order not to have a monopoly kespa should have a monopoly? Did you really think that over? Especially considering that kespa is repeatedly lying through their teeth at every opportunity. | ||
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aru
183 Posts
On October 07 2010 22:41 lololol wrote: So in order not to have a monopoly kespa should have a monopoly? Did you really think that over? Especially considering that kespa is repeatedly lying through their teeth at every opportunity. What monopoly does Kespa have? | ||
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Legace
Sweden342 Posts
On October 07 2010 15:59 d3_crescentia wrote: Isn't this article fundamentally hearsay? I'd take anything from an "eyewitness account" with a grain of salt, no matter who the source was. It is, by all accounts and measures, hearsay. Is the person claimed as the source known? I mean, do we know who the actual source is? Quite frankly, I'm having a hard time taking something that is claimed to be dug up from caches as reliable. It's also pretty "convenient" the original post was deleted almost instantly and thereby effectively prohibiting any type of source control. For all we know, the post could have been deleted because it was a load of bull. But oh well, haters gonna hate. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
They have already boycotted gom in the past, so only kespa sanctioned events can exist and they also sold the exclusive broadcasting rights to IEG(?), which OGN and MBC had to pay for, while OGN and MBC originally created the leagues(also Blizzard was allowing gom to run for $1). Considering these 2 they effectively have always had a monopoly over BW in Korea. They are also forbidding players from entering SC2 events, but claiming it is a misunderstanding in the case with Nada, since it gives them bad publicity. For something that's supposed to be non-profit governing body with the development of e-sports in mind, they sure as hell aren't behaving as one. | ||
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mimikami
France77 Posts
On October 07 2010 22:06 0neder wrote: Well, Morhaime is right, and Kespa should acknowledge the law/rules, but they don't, so we have to deal with it as is. Except for the fact that this thread is not about Kespa, it's about Blizzard vs Korean Gov, so Blizzard fans should stop the Kespa ranting from now on in this thread. | ||
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TheGreatHegemon
61 Posts
On October 07 2010 22:06 0neder wrote: Well, Morhaime is right, and Kespa should acknowledge the law/rules, but they don't, so we have to deal with it as is. [Cite your source] This seems to be an argument over derivative goods, isn't it? I am not a lawyer, but those were traditionally NOT under the original IP. Are all images made in Adobe Photoshop property of Adobe? | ||
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mav451
United States1596 Posts
Just going over the quotes though - neither side is negotiating properly, particularly with the "you're only a president of a ordinary company". Um lol. That ordinary company's IP is the reason you even have an e-sport to begin with. If SK wants to write their own games, go on right ahead. Try to imagine e-sports without the Blizzard title games, and then realize how stupid the gov't official looks when he says this. E-sports has significant monetary impact in SK as well, so the gov't official should be well aware of this when he releases such a gaffe. Man whatever. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On October 07 2010 22:58 mimikami wrote: Except for the fact that this thread is not about Kespa, it's about Blizzard vs Korean Gov, so Blizzard fans should stop the Kespa ranting from now on in this thread. Isn't Kespa closely linked with the government? Like the gov't helped create them and fund them? Sorry, maybe I shouldn't group them together but that was my understanding. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On October 07 2010 23:06 0neder wrote: Isn't Kespa closely linked with the government? Like the gov't helped create them and fund them? Sorry, maybe I shouldn't group them together but that was my understanding. Kespa was founded as a delegated office of culture ministry. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On October 07 2010 22:27 Red_beard wrote: IP rights have so many grey areas, where corporations can go bandit on people. Film/game/music corporations basically have monopolies on their products, and the resulting situation is always monopoly vs. customer. I think that a company claiming that recordings of people playing their game belong to it is wrong. Just like Adidas trying to destroy UEFA and take over the Championships because players are using Adidas footballs/shoes. Or the architect who planned the stadium demanding money for showing the stadium on TV. It's just not right, the game is just a tool - everyone who plays it has bought it legally, that's that. What we want to watch on TV is the players and their skill foremost. In short, it should not be possible or permissible under law for companies to claim ownerships of recordings of people using their product. If this can happen, then why can't Bosch suddenly demand that everyone pay them extra $$ for living in a house built with Bosch tools. I think this is really wrong, it destroys creativity and freedom and should simply not be possible in any legal system. Otherwise we are creating a world where more and more companies are simply weaseling money from people using obscure and annoying technological / legal solutions instead of just selling their products on clear terms. [x] Smart post | ||
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
On October 07 2010 21:38 infinity2k9 wrote: Imagine if KeSPA had just been allowed to proceed as normal with SC2, and what the situation would be now. There would likely already be an OSL2 or MSL2, and a proleague planned and all of this broadcast on TV. Teams would have SC2 divisions so players would be able to remain employed. The only negative would possibly be foreign players finding it hard to get into the scene, although an agreement could have been worked out... maybe even a team specifically for them (Gretech sponsored?). Blizzard would no doubt sell more copies in korea because of this and the publicity would be much better and easier than their extreme spending on bombing koreans with advertisements. See how much better that situation is? But look what we got instead. I dunno who is making these eSports related decisions for Blizzard but they seem to not be thinking long term at all. Or even short term for that matter. Gretech wanted GSL SC2 to be broadcasted during OSL/MSL/Proleague television times. Kespa wanted GSL SC2 to be broadcasted during off hours like 12 AM. there was never a "proceed as normal with SC2" due to a difference in wanting specific television times. | ||
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
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ooni
Australia1498 Posts
On October 07 2010 23:00 TheGreatHegemon wrote: [Cite your source] This seems to be an argument over derivative goods, isn't it? I am not a lawyer, but those were traditionally NOT under the original IP. Are all images made in Adobe Photoshop property of Adobe? Well, tbh, that's the reason why commercial software is more expensive than a home edition software. It depends on the licensing I suppose. Game is cheaper because it's only license to use to product. Anything created with that product can be creator's product. It has to be reasonable though. With the map, anyone could see a 'map' cannot be owned by Blizzard so in Korea they changed the ToS, only giving Blizzard the right to use them commercially and delete/remove them from their server. See now a replay or the games played are in the grey area. I can see it going toward Blizzard's favour since the simple cost of game does not meet the criteria for using the product directly to make money. At the end it will be balance of 1. 'What did the buyer paid for?' including the price and intention of the parties. 2. Resonableness, has what the defendant created far off from what the Plaintiff created/intended (i.e. Custom Maps are nothing like Blizzard created/intended, replays can be argued because of the notion that the creation process/phase of the game is what Plaintiff had intended) | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
On October 07 2010 23:33 ZeaL. wrote: So an anonymous blogger posts a ridiculous "eyewitness" account, deletes said account, and then curious TL'er finds snippets and translates it for the BW section of TL. 90% of BW section goes into kneejerk reaction and blasts Blizzard for being stupid and not knowing its place, just like every other article posted about KeSPA vs Gretech. Why don't we make a thread in BW where people can just rant and rave about how people want Blizzard to die and KeSPA to win and close it on October 16th when we'll ACTUALLY have a legit idea of whats going to happen. Threads like this are just flamebait to get people angry at Blizzard without any substantial reasoning for it. This type of stuff is just blatant "leaking" information to get people's attention, just like what Apple does every year before their stupid apple conference or whatever. K, to clarify 1) Not an anonymous blogger -- the guy's a pretty famous blogger, and gets interviews with producers/operators of games quite often (he seems to be a game industry insider) 2) He deleted said account after people started linking to it and posting it everywhere 3) Not really snippets, but this is pretty much the entire post Just saying, don't just say "oh this is just a blog post so it isn't credible". I personally find it more credible than a lot of the stuff that gets posted on Fomos  Also, to people who says "It doesnt sound like MM", 1) it could easily be a paraphrase, 2) It's a English -> Korean -> Guy overhearing/remembering it -> Korean -> English translation so of course it wont be perfect. Few notes 1) Didn't know Blizzard had the kind of pull to even consider moving GSL from overseas (doesn't that tell you anything) 2) The Korean Minister was rather rude -- cultural context aside, that's not what you expect from a government official especially in Korea (even though MM "could have had it coming") | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Agreed, the spoiled post explains the Korean position quite well. | ||
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