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Blizzard and Korean Government's negotiations sour - Page 22

Forum Index > BW General
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sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
October 11 2010 15:25 GMT
#421
On October 11 2010 23:43 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I totally agree! fuck blizzard! how DARE THEY make Brood War????? and how DARE THEY make SC2? and how DARE THEY make WC3?

....hold on a second, aren't those 3 games the most competitive RTS games there are? hey, correct me if i'm wrong but didnt BW spawn e-sports?

boo blizzard! booo! you suck. you guys need to realize that there are laws when it comes to making profits off of someone else's work, and this is just as much about KeSPA being douchebags as it is about blizzard being arrogant asses. Rooting for either is retarded. Backing KeSPA is retarded, 'oh there wouldnt be a pro scne without kespa' well there wouldnt be a fucking kespa without blizzard.


The only time you're allowed to take this tone is when you're well-educated on the subject at hand, and have enough intelligence to pull off a complete sarcastic post. As you obviously are neither, read the thread, educate yourself, come back and try again unless you want to continue to embarrass yourself by displaying this blatant, ignorant, idiocy.
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
Maasa
Profile Joined November 2006
Netherlands5 Posts
October 11 2010 15:39 GMT
#422
On October 11 2010 23:43 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I totally agree! fuck blizzard! how DARE THEY make Brood War????? and how DARE THEY make SC2? and how DARE THEY make WC3?

....hold on a second, aren't those 3 games the most competitive RTS games there are? hey, correct me if i'm wrong but didnt BW spawn e-sports?

boo blizzard! booo! you suck. you guys need to realize that there are laws when it comes to making profits off of someone else's work, and this is just as much about KeSPA being douchebags as it is about blizzard being arrogant asses. Rooting for either is retarded. Backing KeSPA is retarded, 'oh there wouldnt be a pro scne without kespa' well there wouldnt be a fucking kespa without blizzard.


I agree Blizzard has made some awesome games over the years, of which Starcraft is amongst the top, if not the best. All the more reason to be upset about the attempts to put the Starcraft scene in the closet on a dusty shelve, which ironically is done by... Blizzard. It is not that people are angry at Blizzard for making awesome games, on the contrary, it is for attempting to pull one of those great games away.
I suppose both sides have shown rather childish behavior to put it mildly, but Kespa seems to care a lot more for Starcraft and its pro-scene than Blizzard, and so do I.

And for the record, Kespa would be there even if Starcraft would not have been made. First there was Kespa, then they picked Starcraft to organize building a succesful scene around.
mprs
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2933 Posts
October 11 2010 15:59 GMT
#423
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 11 2010 21:00 hitthat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 07:05 mprs wrote:
This debate is border-line idiotic. I'll preface my argument with the notion that I will not use statistics or anything of that sort just because I don't feel like making up numbers today.

Kespa (well, before it formed, someone) saw a game that was getting a lot of attention in Korea. There was a PC-bang boom so to speak, and video games (especially some of the easy-to-pirate variety, aka perhaps SC!) were getting fairly popular in the Korean culture. Kespa formed on the notion that there is a market for this product we call e-sports. If Kespa was not around, there simply would have been another organization called PKFAF or KSFOTG or even STJUWTUWTY34692 to run the show. Not to undermine their accomplishments, they took this young child and grew it to be as big as possible. However, the notion that Kespa was the reason why E-sports developed in Korea is most probably not true. They simply took an advantage of a situation. The fact that they made it grow is really irrelevant because any business would have done the same. I would also like to mention that every time you see a commercial, you are basically paying money. So really the programming is not "free".


You still dont understand. They did not only made the game fandom growing. THEY PROTECTED IT FROM BEING DEAD.

Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 07:05 mprs wrote:
So what does this all mean? Nothing really. Kespa or any organization would have been in that situation. The fact that Blizzard "needed" Kespa is really not true. Its not like they were living off Starcraft sales. In fact, since it was so much after release, $5 times a copy is negligible in the grand scheme of things when 11 million are paying $15 a month. Did Kespa need Blizzard? There would have been another game they could have used, so I doubt it.


Thats true, but Blizzard really gain a big profits with that, i suspect much more than they ever had without it.

Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 07:05 mprs wrote:
Now on to IP rights. Not recognizing IP rights is very dangerous. If you look at World of Warcraft. Can you imagine if private servers were legal (they are not only because of IP rights)? It would make the game 100% free. Even better, the people running the server can charge less and take ALL the profits from Blizzard who put millions of dollars into the game. The same thing would happen with Diablo2, 3, and Starcraft 2.


Overrusing it is also dangerous, becouse it will make a lot of absurds pretty soon. But involving in the CONTRACTS is just intolerable.

Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 07:05 mprs wrote:
On a more personal note, I really could not give a fuck about Kespa. And I'm not talking about the way the company runs. Lets ignore the fact that they run their teams similar to a military than the actual military. Lets ignore the fact that they control the ever living shit out of their players, as to not allow them to participate in any non-kespa-sanctioned tournaments (usually any tournaments outside of Korea). And last but not least, lets ignore the fact that they DQ'd players because they hit their enter key on accident and typed "/". The reason I don't care is because Kespa really does not care about E-sports out of Korea. They have done nothing to grow it outside of Korea (ok a match in China isn't really "outside of Korea"). However, If E-sports were to grow outside of Korea (you know, where all of us live), it would probably be due to Blizzard. This is why I want Blizzard to succeed and not Kespa.


"Dont giving fuck about KESPA" means "dont giving fuck about e-sport at all". This is the basic thing you dont understand. They are the true pioneers in profesional e-sport, the only thing that prevents any e-sport industry from stagnation. They dont slow down the e-sport abroad, in fact- they really did the opposite. Samsung, the company involved in KeSPA was the one that sponsored the very first WCG as i remember exacly.


I think I worded that last paragraph wrong. It was written in the perspective of a North American gamer. In this way, it would be a natural selfish thing to want Blizzard to win. Why? Because Blizzard has a better chance of making what was happening in Korea happen in the US, maybe even better. Kespa on the other hand, has no real prospects of growing e-sports anywhere else (aside from being an example of success, but for some reason most people who talk about kespa talk about the negatives anyway). Yes Kespa is not entitled to expand anywhere else, they are the KOREAN e-sports association. But this is also the main reason why I don't "care" (note: not hate, not want to lose, not any other thing. Just care).

I never knew the BW pro-scene existed until I watched a Blizzcon. Saw that these guys were amazing, and then later learned about everything. Then later found out they weren't the best because Kespa didn't want their players participating in tourney for a possible 75k prize.
We talkin about PRACTICE
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
October 11 2010 16:07 GMT
#424
On October 12 2010 00:59 mprs wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 11 2010 21:00 hitthat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 07:05 mprs wrote:
This debate is border-line idiotic. I'll preface my argument with the notion that I will not use statistics or anything of that sort just because I don't feel like making up numbers today.

Kespa (well, before it formed, someone) saw a game that was getting a lot of attention in Korea. There was a PC-bang boom so to speak, and video games (especially some of the easy-to-pirate variety, aka perhaps SC!) were getting fairly popular in the Korean culture. Kespa formed on the notion that there is a market for this product we call e-sports. If Kespa was not around, there simply would have been another organization called PKFAF or KSFOTG or even STJUWTUWTY34692 to run the show. Not to undermine their accomplishments, they took this young child and grew it to be as big as possible. However, the notion that Kespa was the reason why E-sports developed in Korea is most probably not true. They simply took an advantage of a situation. The fact that they made it grow is really irrelevant because any business would have done the same. I would also like to mention that every time you see a commercial, you are basically paying money. So really the programming is not "free".


You still dont understand. They did not only made the game fandom growing. THEY PROTECTED IT FROM BEING DEAD.

Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 07:05 mprs wrote:
So what does this all mean? Nothing really. Kespa or any organization would have been in that situation. The fact that Blizzard "needed" Kespa is really not true. Its not like they were living off Starcraft sales. In fact, since it was so much after release, $5 times a copy is negligible in the grand scheme of things when 11 million are paying $15 a month. Did Kespa need Blizzard? There would have been another game they could have used, so I doubt it.


Thats true, but Blizzard really gain a big profits with that, i suspect much more than they ever had without it.

Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 07:05 mprs wrote:
Now on to IP rights. Not recognizing IP rights is very dangerous. If you look at World of Warcraft. Can you imagine if private servers were legal (they are not only because of IP rights)? It would make the game 100% free. Even better, the people running the server can charge less and take ALL the profits from Blizzard who put millions of dollars into the game. The same thing would happen with Diablo2, 3, and Starcraft 2.


Overrusing it is also dangerous, becouse it will make a lot of absurds pretty soon. But involving in the CONTRACTS is just intolerable.

Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 07:05 mprs wrote:
On a more personal note, I really could not give a fuck about Kespa. And I'm not talking about the way the company runs. Lets ignore the fact that they run their teams similar to a military than the actual military. Lets ignore the fact that they control the ever living shit out of their players, as to not allow them to participate in any non-kespa-sanctioned tournaments (usually any tournaments outside of Korea). And last but not least, lets ignore the fact that they DQ'd players because they hit their enter key on accident and typed "/". The reason I don't care is because Kespa really does not care about E-sports out of Korea. They have done nothing to grow it outside of Korea (ok a match in China isn't really "outside of Korea"). However, If E-sports were to grow outside of Korea (you know, where all of us live), it would probably be due to Blizzard. This is why I want Blizzard to succeed and not Kespa.


"Dont giving fuck about KESPA" means "dont giving fuck about e-sport at all". This is the basic thing you dont understand. They are the true pioneers in profesional e-sport, the only thing that prevents any e-sport industry from stagnation. They dont slow down the e-sport abroad, in fact- they really did the opposite. Samsung, the company involved in KeSPA was the one that sponsored the very first WCG as i remember exacly.


I think I worded that last paragraph wrong. It was written in the perspective of a North American gamer. In this way, it would be a natural selfish thing to want Blizzard to win. Why? Because Blizzard has a better chance of making what was happening in Korea happen in the US, maybe even better. Kespa on the other hand, has no real prospects of growing e-sports anywhere else (aside from being an example of success, but for some reason most people who talk about kespa talk about the negatives anyway). Yes Kespa is not entitled to expand anywhere else, they are the KOREAN e-sports association. But this is also the main reason why I don't "care" (note: not hate, not want to lose, not any other thing. Just care).

I never knew the BW pro-scene existed until I watched a Blizzcon. Saw that these guys were amazing, and then later learned about everything. Then later found out they weren't the best because Kespa didn't want their players participating in tourney for a possible 75k prize.

I don't think you understand. The main reason we don't have e-sports in the west is because we don't have enough interest. Especially not for RTS games.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Morphs
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands645 Posts
October 11 2010 16:12 GMT
#425
It's so tempting and easy to have a page-long judgment on this article that was reportedly sewn together from bot-translated pieces of interview.. I almost did..

However, the art is not to.. as the truth is always somewhere in the middle. It's impossible to have any opinion on this, the source is too vague. No one of us was there. People tend to mix their own opinion in stuff that's posted on the internet..

.. please.. continue..
ffreakk
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2155 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 17:19:55
October 11 2010 17:03 GMT
#426
Yea, and every now and then there will be a guy who jump into the middle of an argument, acting like he is the most evolved homo-sapient on earth talking to little monkeys, saying "your arguments are stupid and worthless, so i have nothing to say about it, but please.. continue.."

If you have nothing to contribute (be it that you are too evolved to participate in this barbaric activity, or whatever other divine reasons that you have), please by all means, dont stoop so low as to post into the middle of our pathetic conversation.

@ mprs

In my opinion, you are grossly delusional if you think that Blizzard winning this will mean that chances for E-Sport in North America are any better at all (of course assuming that to you, how ruining things for other people (ones who appreciate Korean E-Sport) doesnt have the smallest speck of significance, and only E-Sport in N.America matters at all).. Reasons have been mentioned many times before

1/ People at your place looks at games and say: "ROFLMAO NERDS, they are playing GAMES!!".. This both discourage players from honing their skills, as well as prevent any chance of a Games channel to ever appear on television.

2/ Blizz knows this, thats why they base their Global Star-League in Korea, despite the fact that in Korea, they face direct competition from Brood War, whereby everywhere else in the world, SC2 is free reign w/o any competition.

3/ Blizz kills games to make way for their new releases. This alone kills any hope for a stable E-Sport scene, should Blizz be allowed total control.

4/ Blizz doesnt tailor their games to improve level of gameplay. They tailored their game in a way that ensure them total control and ultimately maximum profit, it would have proabably been acceptable if not for the fact that it ruins the possibility for professional-level gameplay (yes im talking about the absence of LAN). Other in-game support are poor as well. But they made retarded stuffs to earn $$ like name-changing (compeletely irrelevant compared to Chat Room n stuffs).
Look. Only Forward. See. Only Victory.
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 17:30:16
October 11 2010 17:29 GMT
#427
If proleague dies because of blizzard i am boycotting every freaking products from them from now on ..
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
jackofclubs81
Profile Joined January 2010
United States196 Posts
October 11 2010 18:42 GMT
#428
Boxer > Starcraft.
Therefore:
Korea > Blizzard.
End of discussion.
(Also, since I think it needs mentioning: Broodwar >>>>> WoL)
PlaGuE_R
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
France1151 Posts
October 11 2010 18:47 GMT
#429
On October 11 2010 23:52 zenMaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 23:43 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I totally agree! fuck blizzard! how DARE THEY make Brood War????? and how DARE THEY make SC2? and how DARE THEY make WC3?

....hold on a second, aren't those 3 games the most competitive RTS games there are? hey, correct me if i'm wrong but didnt BW spawn e-sports?

boo blizzard! booo! you suck. you guys need to realize that there are laws when it comes to making profits off of someone else's work, and this is just as much about KeSPA being douchebags as it is about blizzard being arrogant asses. Rooting for either is retarded. Backing KeSPA is retarded, 'oh there wouldnt be a pro scne without kespa' well there wouldnt be a fucking kespa without blizzard.

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. Once again someone fails to do their homework. It's not about refusing to pay royalties, maybe if you did your research you could crawl out of the rock Blizzard created for you to live under.


you think I'm living under a rock Blizzard created? that's retarded. Face it, no blizzard, no kespa, no kespa, no esports. we know this, so why rehash the same bullshit over and over and whine bout blizzard. let them hash it out, 95% of the people voicing their oh so righteous opinions on this board probably dont even have the full story


User was temp banned for this post.
TLO FIGHTING | me all in, he drone drone drone, me win - SK.MC | JINROLLED! | KraToss for the win
buhhy
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1113 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 18:53:35
October 11 2010 18:50 GMT
#430
On October 12 2010 03:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 23:52 zenMaster wrote:
On October 11 2010 23:43 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I totally agree! fuck blizzard! how DARE THEY make Brood War????? and how DARE THEY make SC2? and how DARE THEY make WC3?

....hold on a second, aren't those 3 games the most competitive RTS games there are? hey, correct me if i'm wrong but didnt BW spawn e-sports?

boo blizzard! booo! you suck. you guys need to realize that there are laws when it comes to making profits off of someone else's work, and this is just as much about KeSPA being douchebags as it is about blizzard being arrogant asses. Rooting for either is retarded. Backing KeSPA is retarded, 'oh there wouldnt be a pro scne without kespa' well there wouldnt be a fucking kespa without blizzard.

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. Once again someone fails to do their homework. It's not about refusing to pay royalties, maybe if you did your research you could crawl out of the rock Blizzard created for you to live under.


you think I'm living under a rock Blizzard created? that's retarded. Face it, no blizzard, no kespa, no kespa, no esports. we know this, so why rehash the same bullshit over and over and whine bout blizzard. let them hash it out, 95% of the people voicing their oh so righteous opinions on this board probably dont even have the full story


No Kespa, no esports, no overhyped SC2. BW dies within a few years of release / when WC3 is released.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
October 11 2010 19:04 GMT
#431
On October 12 2010 02:29 Sawamura wrote:
If proleague dies because of blizzard i am boycotting every freaking products from them from now on ..

Yes, join me in my boycott! I'm boycotting SC2 (I'm not buying the game, and I'm not watching GSL) until I know that the BW-scene lives. ^__^
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5556 Posts
October 11 2010 19:17 GMT
#432
On October 12 2010 04:04 Holgerius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 02:29 Sawamura wrote:
If proleague dies because of blizzard i am boycotting every freaking products from them from now on ..

Yes, join me in my boycott! I'm boycotting SC2 (I'm not buying the game, and I'm not watching GSL) until I know that the BW-scene lives. ^__^


Same here! At first I was tempted to buy it, but then I realized that playing a game with so many flaws just because it's got automated match-making is not worth it.
FishForThought
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada88 Posts
October 11 2010 19:24 GMT
#433
On October 12 2010 03:50 buhhy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 03:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:
On October 11 2010 23:52 zenMaster wrote:
On October 11 2010 23:43 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I totally agree! fuck blizzard! how DARE THEY make Brood War????? and how DARE THEY make SC2? and how DARE THEY make WC3?

....hold on a second, aren't those 3 games the most competitive RTS games there are? hey, correct me if i'm wrong but didnt BW spawn e-sports?

boo blizzard! booo! you suck. you guys need to realize that there are laws when it comes to making profits off of someone else's work, and this is just as much about KeSPA being douchebags as it is about blizzard being arrogant asses. Rooting for either is retarded. Backing KeSPA is retarded, 'oh there wouldnt be a pro scne without kespa' well there wouldnt be a fucking kespa without blizzard.

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. Once again someone fails to do their homework. It's not about refusing to pay royalties, maybe if you did your research you could crawl out of the rock Blizzard created for you to live under.


you think I'm living under a rock Blizzard created? that's retarded. Face it, no blizzard, no kespa, no kespa, no esports. we know this, so why rehash the same bullshit over and over and whine bout blizzard. let them hash it out, 95% of the people voicing their oh so righteous opinions on this board probably dont even have the full story


No Kespa, no esports, no overhyped SC2. BW dies within a few years of release / when WC3 is released.


Never knew Kespa was some e-sport god that can pick any game and make it popular. Maybe, just maybe they picked Starcraft because it was already one of the most popular game at the time?

If BW wasn't as successful, we probably would of gotten SC MMO instead of WOW. The fact that BW gotten popular forced blizzard to make Sc2 a decade later and create a game that lacks significant innovation from the original formula. All their early attempts to create new units and concept for sc2 was shot down by fans demanding for BW in 3D. I highly doubt the progaming scene actually made that much more money for blizzard. Fan girls don't play starcraft, the majority of sc players are casuals and majority of people who watch starcraft, watch for the sake of watching.
MichaelJLowell
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States610 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 19:40:17
October 11 2010 19:37 GMT
#434
In the context of American law, Blizzard's case is pretty open-and-shut. For those of you who can't understand why people think KeSPA should have it their way, it's simple:

Edit: Let me rephrase it: Which scenario promotes the general welfare better and offers more financial incentive to companies? Open distribution of the product through competitive gaming outlets, thus providing free advertising for the games? Or a world where companies can license products deemed worthy by competitive gamers?
http://www.learntocounter.com - I'm a "known troll" so please disconnect your kid's computer when I am on the forums.
buhhy
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1113 Posts
October 11 2010 19:50 GMT
#435
On October 12 2010 04:24 FishForThought wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 03:50 buhhy wrote:
On October 12 2010 03:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:
On October 11 2010 23:52 zenMaster wrote:
On October 11 2010 23:43 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I totally agree! fuck blizzard! how DARE THEY make Brood War????? and how DARE THEY make SC2? and how DARE THEY make WC3?

....hold on a second, aren't those 3 games the most competitive RTS games there are? hey, correct me if i'm wrong but didnt BW spawn e-sports?

boo blizzard! booo! you suck. you guys need to realize that there are laws when it comes to making profits off of someone else's work, and this is just as much about KeSPA being douchebags as it is about blizzard being arrogant asses. Rooting for either is retarded. Backing KeSPA is retarded, 'oh there wouldnt be a pro scne without kespa' well there wouldnt be a fucking kespa without blizzard.

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. Once again someone fails to do their homework. It's not about refusing to pay royalties, maybe if you did your research you could crawl out of the rock Blizzard created for you to live under.


you think I'm living under a rock Blizzard created? that's retarded. Face it, no blizzard, no kespa, no kespa, no esports. we know this, so why rehash the same bullshit over and over and whine bout blizzard. let them hash it out, 95% of the people voicing their oh so righteous opinions on this board probably dont even have the full story


No Kespa, no esports, no overhyped SC2. BW dies within a few years of release / when WC3 is released.


Never knew Kespa was some e-sport god that can pick any game and make it popular. Maybe, just maybe they picked Starcraft because it was already one of the most popular game at the time?



They didn't make BW popular, they elevated BW from a simple game to an industry. BW without Kespa would be like the Dota scene.


On October 12 2010 04:37 MichaelJLowell wrote:
In the context of American law, Blizzard's case is pretty open-and-shut. For those of you who can't understand why people think KeSPA should have it their way, it's simple:

Edit: Let me rephrase it: Which scenario promotes the general welfare better and offers more financial incentive to companies? Open distribution of the product through competitive gaming outlets, thus providing free advertising for the games? Or a world where companies can license products deemed worthy by competitive gamers?


It's not that clear cut, mainly because there has been no precedent to this scenario, and because blizzard gave non-verbal consent to Kespa by not sending a cease-or-desist until 2007. Kespa has a case, it's unclear how strong it is though.
MichaelJLowell
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States610 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 21:09:59
October 11 2010 20:49 GMT
#436
It's not that clear cut, mainly because there has been no precedent to this scenario, and because blizzard gave non-verbal consent to Kespa by not sending a cease-or-desist until 2007. Kespa has a case, it's unclear how strong it is though.

That's the only thing KeSPA has going for it. The most relevant precedent I can think of is Williams Electronics v. Arctic International. Essentially, Artic International made bootleg versions of Defender. Arctic argued they were not infringing Williams Electronics' copyright because they could not own it; the sounds and graphics (the position and occurence of which changed in every playthrough) were not "fixed in a tangible medium of expression" (the wording used in the 1976 Copyright Act). Arctic then argued the player owned the copyright on their playthrough because their individual playthrough constituted a "fixed" expression. Arctic lost big.
http://www.learntocounter.com - I'm a "known troll" so please disconnect your kid's computer when I am on the forums.
buhhy
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1113 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 22:03:41
October 11 2010 22:01 GMT
#437
On October 12 2010 05:49 MichaelJLowell wrote:
Show nested quote +
It's not that clear cut, mainly because there has been no precedent to this scenario, and because blizzard gave non-verbal consent to Kespa by not sending a cease-or-desist until 2007. Kespa has a case, it's unclear how strong it is though.

That's the only thing KeSPA has going for it. The most relevant precedent I can think of is Williams Electronics v. Arctic International. Essentially, Artic International made bootleg versions of Defender. Arctic argued they were not infringing Williams Electronics' copyright because they could not own it; the sounds and graphics (the position and occurence of which changed in every playthrough) were not "fixed in a tangible medium of expression" (the wording used in the 1976 Copyright Act). Arctic then argued the player owned the copyright on their playthrough because their individual playthrough constituted a "fixed" expression. Arctic lost big.


But, Kespa has purchased versions of the game. And really, Blizzard somewhat endorsed Kespa, when it invited progamers to play for Blizzcon. Thus, the situation is different from Arctic vs Williams. Kespa was using legal versions of the game for a considerable length of time with tacit approval from Blizzard. If this case occurred in 2001 or 2002, Blizzard would win undoubtedly if Kespa did not make a deal, but 10 years later, Blizzard would have a hard time justifying not intervening at an earlier time.

I'm not sure about the law regarding silent approval by a company regarding IP, so if any lawyers can clarify, it'll be great.
MichaelJLowell
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States610 Posts
October 11 2010 22:10 GMT
#438
If this case occurred in 2001 or 2002, Blizzard would win undoubtedly if Kespa did not make a deal, but 10 years later, Blizzard would have a hard time justifying not intervening at an earlier time.

Don't worry. KeSPA ain't grand, but I'm rooting for this scenario. Sounds to me like home field is going to be everything (i.e. whether it's argued in a Korean or American court).
http://www.learntocounter.com - I'm a "known troll" so please disconnect your kid's computer when I am on the forums.
ooni
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia1498 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-12 00:56:20
October 12 2010 00:55 GMT
#439
On October 12 2010 07:01 buhhy wrote:
I'm not sure about the law regarding silent approval by a company regarding IP, so if any lawyers can clarify, it'll be great.

Na you are pretty close. It's a lot likely implied agreeement. Like someone said before there is no precedent like this. The case is a lot complex because there was no money involved between that time. One has to calculate if 'free advertisement' should be consideration. Although it would be hard to argue it isn't since so many SC were sold in Korea. It's not clear cut so I can see it go either way.

On October 12 2010 07:10 MichaelJLowell wrote:
Show nested quote +
If this case occurred in 2001 or 2002, Blizzard would win undoubtedly if Kespa did not make a deal, but 10 years later, Blizzard would have a hard time justifying not intervening at an earlier time.

Don't worry. KeSPA ain't grand, but I'm rooting for this scenario. Sounds to me like home field is going to be everything (i.e. whether it's argued in a Korean or American court).

Naw... IP laws are same for any country so it shouldn't matter.
Home field has nothing to do with law, or at least it shouldn't. We got to trust the repectable judges on this one Korean or American.
Hi!
aru
Profile Joined April 2010
183 Posts
October 12 2010 08:40 GMT
#440
On October 12 2010 00:59 mprs wrote:
I think I worded that last paragraph wrong. It was written in the perspective of a North American gamer. In this way, it would be a natural selfish thing to want Blizzard to win. Why? Because Blizzard has a better chance of making what was happening in Korea happen in the US, maybe even better. Kespa on the other hand, has no real prospects of growing e-sports anywhere else (aside from being an example of success, but for some reason most people who talk about kespa talk about the negatives anyway). Yes Kespa is not entitled to expand anywhere else, they are the KOREAN e-sports association. But this is also the main reason why I don't "care" (note: not hate, not want to lose, not any other thing. Just care).

I never knew the BW pro-scene existed until I watched a Blizzcon. Saw that these guys were amazing, and then later learned about everything. Then later found out they weren't the best because Kespa didn't want their players participating in tourney for a possible 75k prize.


Blizzard doesn't want to emulate what happened in Korea in the US. They don't want corporate teams because corporations can work together to undermine Blizzard by boycotting Blizzard tournaments if-they-don't-get-what-they-want. These corporations, and their players, don't depend on tournament winnings and/or sponsorships for their livelihood unlike other "progamers." It is a side business for PR.

The current method of SC2 prize hunters is ideal for them; they get all the advertising benefits without any of the negatives.

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with Kespa not sending their "best" to Blizzcon. Unless you think the likes of sAviOr or NaDa weren't among the best. The only argument you could make was that in 2009, Flash and Iris didn't go for whatever reason, but that had nothing to do with Kespa. By the way, the prize was 25k for first.
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