• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:18
CEST 07:18
KST 14:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!14Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters2Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)83Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!18
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" [D] Wireframe Casting Removed
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together
Brood War
General
Animated Gateway BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion HORROR STARCRAFT MOVIE How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs Fighting Spirit mining rates Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Role of Gaming on Mental Hea…
TrAiDoS
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6333 users

Serious Balance Changes Suggestions Topic - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All
STIMEY d okgm fish
Profile Joined August 2003
Canada6140 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-07-07 08:32:35
July 07 2004 08:31 GMT
#41
i would pay for sc all over again if they started treating it how they treat war3: a real ladder, real balance adjustments (altho nothing as major as in war3 as sc is already good how it is), going after cheaters, coming up with new maps...
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
July 07 2004 08:39 GMT
#42
Tfeign you are a moron. Seriously. You're reasons for wanting balance changes are completely selfish and unreasonable, not only that you try to insult the community because we can't give you replays, when you want to change the game because YOU are tired of seeing the ' same strats used over and over '

If you want to do something new, play a new game. If you want unit choice like you described, basically go play war 2. All that's different are abilities. You're suggesting every unit, awesome or not be balanced to a point where only the ability affects your choice of using it or not. You prove this yourself by listing new mana costs.

The reason there are few replays with those plays you want to see is because those plays have very little room to develop as the mainstream strats have been developed over a LONG period of time and 3-5 of them are enough to counter most anything.

I suggest that you yourself use them, instead of trying to start some kind of revolution you thought you could by starting this thread. Make a UMS map with your changes and get people to play it with you. I doubt it will go any further IF that.
tfeign
Profile Joined June 2004
United States2980 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-07-07 08:54:54
July 07 2004 08:44 GMT
#43
On July 07 2004 17:39 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Tfeign you are a moron. Seriously. You're reasons for wanting balance changes are completely selfish and unreasonable, not only that you try to insult the community because we can't give you replays, when you want to change the game because YOU are tired of seeing the ' same strats used over and over '

If you want to do something new, play a new game. If you want unit choice like you described, basically go play war 2. All that's different are abilities. You're suggesting every unit, awesome or not be balanced to a point where only the ability affects your choice of using it or not. You prove this yourself by listing new mana costs.

The reason there are few replays with those plays you want to see is because those plays have very little room to develop as the mainstream strats have been developed over a LONG period of time and 3-5 of them are enough to counter most anything.

I suggest that you yourself use them, instead of trying to start some kind of revolution you thought you could by starting this thread. Make a UMS map with your changes and get people to play it with you. I doubt it will go any further IF that.



Abyss_Bahamut = ignorant fool


Also, Arg.Iceman, dropping infested terrans behind mineral lines is about effective as dropping lurkers behind mineral lines. Although lurkers can attack from a distance, above on a cliff, doesn't die unless the opponent actually kills it, and doesn't require you to steal a cc before using one. I really like to see infested terrans being useful, ALOT more useful, as I have seen terran comman centers being stolen before in many games, but then no one would make infested terran since they die way too fast before they can do any damage to justify the cost.
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7328 Posts
July 07 2004 08:54 GMT
#44
How about you stop sucking, and get better without trying to ruin the game.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
tfeign
Profile Joined June 2004
United States2980 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-07-07 09:02:55
July 07 2004 08:59 GMT
#45
Sadist how about you beat me in a 1v1 using ANY of the underused unit and/or spell some time in the game usefully? (mind control, hallucination, scout, maelstrom, queen, ensnare, broodling, infested terran, valkyrie, nuke).
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
July 07 2004 09:06 GMT
#46
On July 07 2004 17:44 tfeign wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2004 17:39 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Tfeign you are a moron. Seriously. You're reasons for wanting balance changes are completely selfish and unreasonable, not only that you try to insult the community because we can't give you replays, when you want to change the game because YOU are tired of seeing the ' same strats used over and over '

If you want to do something new, play a new game. If you want unit choice like you described, basically go play war 2. All that's different are abilities. You're suggesting every unit, awesome or not be balanced to a point where only the ability affects your choice of using it or not. You prove this yourself by listing new mana costs.

The reason there are few replays with those plays you want to see is because those plays have very little room to develop as the mainstream strats have been developed over a LONG period of time and 3-5 of them are enough to counter most anything.

I suggest that you yourself use them, instead of trying to start some kind of revolution you thought you could by starting this thread. Make a UMS map with your changes and get people to play it with you. I doubt it will go any further IF that.



Abyss_Bahamut = ignorant fool


Also, Arg.Iceman, dropping infested terrans behind mineral lines is about effective as dropping lurkers behind mineral lines. Although lurkers can attack from a distance, above on a cliff, doesn't die unless the opponent actually kills it, and doesn't require you to steal a cc before using one. I really like to see infested terrans being useful, ALOT more useful, as I have seen terran comman centers being stolen before in many games, but then no one would make infested terran since they die way too fast before they can do any damage to justify the cost.


You're the one being ignorant. You don't say anything about my argument because you know what I said is true. You only want balance changes for your own gain. Yeah I'd LIKE to see a new expansion, doesn't mean everyone does or it will happen.

suxN
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
Finland1167 Posts
July 07 2004 09:06 GMT
#47
infested terrans are weak? oh geez.. have you ever seen what 1-2overlord infested drop at peonline does? massacre. Spawning broodlings in peon line is also fun, but only if terran has 3+ tanks over there (tanks shoot own scv:s). Ensnare is good, it just doesnt end the game, but saves you very often from a attack. nukes are good against toss, any toss that doesnt cannon his exp, will be sorry for that, because emp+nuke means dead nexus, and maybe couple dead probes too, and nuking below overlord is hell, you never know where the nuke is coming, and usually dont see the ghost either (unless zerg has vision upgrade). In 2v2 if enemy toss harasses your ally zerg with 1-3corsairs, 1scout beats them all, if you know how to use shield battery.
I dont want to be totally out :3
Powerpill
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States1693 Posts
July 07 2004 09:08 GMT
#48
The main thing I'd like to see is lockdown being an auto-ability for ghosts. And maybe some way for them to be used a tad earlier in the game..maybe make the starport the requirement instead of sci facility, but make covert ops upgrade the usual cloak/sight etc. Would at least see lots more frozen goons/tanks/gols.
The pretty things are going to hell, they wore it out but they wore it well
tfeign
Profile Joined June 2004
United States2980 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-07-07 09:13:31
July 07 2004 09:12 GMT
#49
Abyss_Bahamut the reason why I didn't say anything about your argument is because what you said is just so completely newbishness and stupid that I don't even bother. For example:

"The reason there are few replays with those plays you want to see is because those plays have very little room to develop as the mainstream strats have been developed over a LONG period of time and 3-5 of them are enough to counter most anything."

....

ignorance. Any strats that are useful will become mainstream in no time. I wont even bother with the rest rofl
radar14
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1437 Posts
July 07 2004 09:19 GMT
#50
IGNORANCE!! I WILL NOT ALLOW THESE KINDS OF INSUBORDINATION FOR I AM THE MESSIAH OF STARCRAFT
impatience is a virtue
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
July 07 2004 09:24 GMT
#51
On July 07 2004 18:12 tfeign wrote:
Abyss_Bahamut the reason why I didn't say anything about your argument is because what you said is just so completely newbishness and stupid that I don't even bother. For example:

"The reason there are few replays with those plays you want to see is because those plays have very little room to develop as the mainstream strats have been developed over a LONG period of time and 3-5 of them are enough to counter most anything."

....

ignorance. Any strats that are useful will become mainstream in no time. I wont even bother with the rest rofl



I was half-expecting something from you but guess you didn't follow through. Please read what you wrote. I'm tearing my eyes out because you can't see your own stupidity. Any strats that are useful? The ones that are useful have already become mainstream therefore the ones using DA's and Queens aren't used.
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
July 07 2004 09:27 GMT
#52
I don't see why anybody would complain about changes that wouldn't affect the balance in the match ups. I mean heck, making queens stronger such as ensnare more powerful to corsair rate of fire could balance out PvZ islands more. Also, you say the game is balanced, and yes it is if you take into account the matchups, but it isn't balanced in the units of each race. The guy has a point that there could be a lot of things that could be changed to make the game better. Like stimey said, the same people who are saying "STFU IT IS FINE THE WAY IT IS" are the same people who have been saying that every single patch along the way. Well guess what? Look back at some of those patches and we can now see some obvious imbalances. If some changes were made and accepted (and didn't screw up the match up balance), then it would make the game more balanced OVERALL.

And while reading this, I just had a random thought. What if the proleagues decided to do their own balancing by using UMS and not bothering to wait for blizzard? It could work... just tell the community exactly what you are going to change and also make official maps of the popular maps that would be played in UMS. It would be easy to tweak and might make things intresting, but unfortunately, it will never happen. But with help of big pro StarCraft gaming groups such as WCG, OGN, and MBC, we could actually make our own patches... of course it would only work if all those big names would support such a thing, otherwise it will just be a few friends using the changes and not the whole community.
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
July 07 2004 09:28 GMT
#53
Dark archons are definitely VERY powerful pvz. try out researching maelstrom instead of storm the next time you pvz, and move out with a darkarchon. you'll be surprised how well it counters muta as well as hydra. after all, you can dodge storm, you can't dodge maelstrom...

Also, you have to realize there WILL BE GAMES where not all units are built. there is no way you're going to find every single unit being used, so don't try to make all units exactly equal. the whole point is that units are unequal, and require different situations to be used. sadist might not beat you using those units because they require a certain situation. however, if he somehow set up a situation where mass scouts would be useful, then you'd be fucked. for example, if he went 2 stargate scout rush against you pvt, and they did 12 damage, PLUS having speed upgrade, how the fuck would it be stopped unless terran completely invested in ebay earlier than normal?
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
July 07 2004 09:31 GMT
#54
On July 07 2004 18:28 RuGbUg wrote:
Dark archons are definitely VERY powerful pvz. try out researching maelstrom instead of storm the next time you pvz, and move out with a darkarchon. you'll be surprised how well it counters muta as well as hydra. after all, you can dodge storm, you can't dodge maelstrom...

Also, you have to realize there WILL BE GAMES where not all units are built. there is no way you're going to find every single unit being used, so don't try to make all units exactly equal. the whole point is that units are unequal, and require different situations to be used. sadist might not beat you using those units because they require a certain situation. however, if he somehow set up a situation where mass scouts would be useful, then you'd be fucked. for example, if he went 2 stargate scout rush against you pvt, and they did 12 damage, PLUS having speed upgrade, how the fuck would it be stopped unless terran completely invested in ebay earlier than normal?


Thank you.
aSDMA
Profile Joined June 2004
194 Posts
July 07 2004 09:40 GMT
#55
Queens are not unbalanced.
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
July 07 2004 09:43 GMT
#56
I mean, i'm all up for changes, but those suggestions aren't good examples of necessary changes.

An idea of mine would be to make scourges have 20 hp, so goons could kill them in 2 hits, and cannons in 1, thus helping toss out with lurk contains/ridges when the zerg keeps killing all the toss' obs.
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
DJEtterStyle
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
United States2766 Posts
July 07 2004 09:53 GMT
#57
On July 07 2004 18:43 RuGbUg wrote:
An idea of mine would be to make scourges have 20 hp, so goons could kill them in 2 hits, and cannons in 1, thus helping toss out with lurk contains/ridges when the zerg keeps killing all the toss' obs.


God that would be terrific. It's so unbelievably frustrating to lose all of your observers to a few scourge when you're trying to break containment. They don't grow on trees like overlords. =/
ZyPhReX
Profile Joined January 2003
1192 Posts
July 07 2004 10:02 GMT
#58
On July 07 2004 17:13 Slipknot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2004 15:10 Refrain[FriZ] wrote:
Stop it, Starcraft is balanced =/
I agree.


I concur.
Ghost Me
tfeign
Profile Joined June 2004
United States2980 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-07-07 10:09:54
July 07 2004 10:07 GMT
#59
Klogon and Stimey you can't be any more right. I've been thinking of Klogon's balancing by using UMS idea for a while now, however it probably won't happen. It's sadder though that Blizzard doesn't seem to care about Starcraft anymore. All of their attention is devoted to warcraft 3 while Starcraft has been left in the dust.

And regarding RuGbUg's post, why do you think that protoss pro gamers go high templars 99.9% intead of dark archons? It's because high templars are much more cost-effective. They cost less to make, they cost less energy to use, they can harass workers, and psi storm is every bit as good, if not better maelstrom, also great to kill lurkers when you have obs. That's why I think maelstrom needs to be better so we can start seeing Dark Archons in the game more.
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
July 07 2004 10:13 GMT
#60
just because high temps are better, doesn't mean we need to make every other unit stronger. why don't pros get reavers instead of temps? because temps are more cost-effective! lets make them faster so pros use reavers/temps/dark archons late game more too!

...do you see what im getting at?
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 42m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft416
RuFF_SC2 118
Nina 90
FoxeR 68
ProTech58
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 3567
Leta 159
Zeus 134
PianO 105
ZergMaN 80
Bale 41
NaDa 29
ToSsGirL 25
Noble 23
Icarus 10
Dota 2
febbydoto53
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 748
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1302
Other Games
summit1g5945
WinterStarcraft675
Sick144
Trikslyr28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1345
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki16
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota296
League of Legends
• Lourlo1046
• Rush865
• Stunt444
Other Games
• Scarra1618
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
4h 42m
Kung Fu Cup
5h 42m
OSC
18h 42m
CrankTV Team League
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Serral vs SHIN
herO vs Solar
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Clem vs ByuN
Rogue vs Lambo
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-21
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E3

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.