EPT
gogogogo 1:1 1+++ reps z queen vs tpz 
Serious Balance Changes Suggestions Topic - Page 11
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WtF.Dondy
46 Posts
gogogogo 1:1 1+++ reps z queen vs tpz | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
the thing is, queensdon't work in just 2 or 3, you have to get a good number going before they start taking effect | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
On July 08 2004 18:51 FrozenArbiter wrote: That's correct, who said otherwise :O? i wasnt arguing with anybody  . Just trying to make sure. I think maelstorm was MEANT for ultralisks. There is no other unit that maelstorm does a better job on. Protoss always cry about ultra/ling imbalance, maybe they can start using maelstorm a lot more... | ||
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WtF.Dondy
46 Posts
dunno about 6 though | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
On July 08 2004 20:51 Tien wrote: yeah, but that means toss players would have to actually use different strats, and who wants to try when u can complaini wasnt arguing with anybody . Just trying to make sure. I think maelstorm was MEANT for ultralisks. There is no other unit that maelstorm does a better job on. Protoss always cry about ultra/ling imbalance, maybe they can start using maelstorm a lot more... | ||
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Hoops
417 Posts
DAs vs ultra ling. Try it out. I have no idea why more tos players don't use it against people who get ultras off 4 gas (anymore than that and zerg is probally just gonna run all over you either way). Archons without shield upgrades really aren't that powerful vs fully upgraded ultras, temps don't do enough other than kill lings. Let me say this one last time. Queens have an IMPORTANT use for the zerg army. They will NEVER be as effective as defilars and they never were intended to be. Temps and DAs just were NEVER ever ever made for you to have to choose one or the other. They have totaly differnt uses in the game. Don't think of the units like frozenarbitor said. Think of them as possisional units. Temps are useful vs hydras, all pvp battles, and in some pvt battles early-mid game. Archons are useful vs mutas, m&m if you even get in that possition, they can be used in pvp. DAs are good vs ultras ling and can be used in special cases in other matchups though aren't really a good choice imo (feedback vs temps or mind control in any case because of lack of mobility). | ||
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SpuniasauR
Australia1500 Posts
(just an extreme representation dont complain about their "salary" cuz its known the less known pros live on something similar to a subsistence income level) From another perspective. People use the builds and units they use because those units are VERSATILE. For example a tank can harass, be used in a push or defense or ANYTHING. its useful. same as a ht, it can be used in an army, or to rape probes. a dark archon however can stop an army, but WTF WOULD YOU DO WITH A DARK ARCHON when harassing. its a question of versatility, cost effectiveness and concentration. When you play at a high level, or at least very intensely you dont have much spare mental energy to keep track of your queens and mentally keep track of their uses or current mana points. and u cant usually spare a hotkey for a unit that is used and forgotten for 2 minutes till it becomes useful again. so even with balance changes the units still need time to regenerate mana. and they still need to be trained with and understood fully to be able to be used as effortlessly in fast paced combat as a control group of dragoons. AND finally they arent versatile enough, even forgetting the cost effectiveness angle for a minute. if u expect a terran to go mm u go dark archon to be sneaky, whoops tanks roll out and what can u do? stall time and research MC? even then u have a _maximum_ of 3-4 tanks that u stole. big whoop, might as well build more goons, save the gas from mc and build a unit with long range, lots of life and a sturdy ass. the carrier. so like stimey i would love to see balance changes making underused units more worthy. but until you can make maelstrom affect tanks and vultures they arent useful enough. and until you can broodling a whole army (at which point u have no ground and ur enemy scouts it and builds sairs) then THIS CONJECTURE IS ALL FOR NOTHING. (also please dont be narrow minded and see this as the only example i have. just accept that you CANT use these situational units everywhere) if u want spells and intense unit micro and gayness, play warcraft. thats what i do when i want to be gay with cool looking spells and yell "HUMILIATION" quake styles at the monitor when i hit an undead gold mine with 4 lquid fired batriders!!!!! | ||
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GrandSmurf
Netherlands462 Posts
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
i still say scourges should be 20 hp fo shoa~ | ||
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dan1st
Malaysia399 Posts
Heck, might as well plan for StarCraft 3... | ||
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88)KicKDoG
86 Posts
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88)KicKDoG
86 Posts
www.people.virginia.edu/~fgt4w/iloveoov1.rep www.people.virginia.edu/~fgt4w/iloveoov2.rep (better queen usage) (yes, i know he wasnt trying, and yes, im sure it was the real iloveoov, verified by many koreans, including zerglee who ive talked to and played with many times, and is on iloveoov's team, and also by ppl at ygclan.com, and a few kinda well known koreans around at the time i played him) | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
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Shaz
United States75 Posts
Hmm, I did an excellent job getting my foot stuck in my mouth didn't I? I was getting the 100/100 research cost mixed up with the spell cost. Whops!  | ||
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anova-glm
China30 Posts
I can't imagine if all his suggestions were added to the next patch, how could terran stay in this game. All zerg and toss's magic units got greatly enhanced... Another thing i want to say is, not every unit means to be equally cost-effective. | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
scourge = 20 hp = great change | ||
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tfeign
United States2980 Posts
On July 08 2004 22:39 88)KicKDoG wrote: hell i beat iloveoov 2-1, both games i won i used queens, and i used them VERY VERY VERY effectively in 1 game, and would have lost without the queens. so there ya go, 1 pro gamer replay in which queens ultimately made the difference. www.people.virginia.edu/~fgt4w/iloveoov1.rep www.people.virginia.edu/~fgt4w/iloveoov2.rep (better queen usage) (yes, i know he wasnt trying, and yes, im sure it was the real iloveoov, verified by many koreans, including zerglee who ive talked to and played with many times, and is on iloveoov's team, and also by ppl at ygclan.com, and a few kinda well known koreans around at the time i played him) KickDog.. These replays proved absolutely nothing. Reasons given below Replay #1: You won this game because you harassed the shit out of him with lurkers. You would have won the game anyway REGARDLESS IF YOU HAD MADE QUEENS OR NOT. Queens did not change the outcome of the game AT ALL. You won the game already before the queen did anything. Replay #2: You won the game because you harassed the shit out of him with lurkers again. However, this time the queen does come into play more as you stole his command centers. However, did I ever complain that command center infestation is underpowered? NEVER. This is an excellent example of underused vs underpowered. Infestation is underused, but I never ever said it was underpowered. I fully understand that infestation is underused, but not underpowered. What I bitch at is Infested Terrans, Spawn Broodling, and Ensnare. These 2 spells and unit ARE UNDERUSED AND UNDERPOWERED. These 2 spells & the weakness of infested terrans are what make the queen suck. How many times have you seen these spells changed the outcome of a game? Compare that with how many times you've seen a defiler changed the outcome of a game | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
On July 08 2004 19:48 FrozenArbiter wrote: Gol and turret would only do 50% : ) they would do 75% since they deal explosive damage. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
On July 09 2004 06:42 sushiman wrote: they would do 75% since they deal explosive damage. Urgh, isn't mutalisks medium units, and doesn't turrets do 50% to them? T_T | ||
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