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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 08 2004 18:00 tfeign wrote: Show nested quote +On July 08 2004 17:56 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Btw care to guess why the DA costs more and is less versatile? That's right, it's a specialist unit meant for support. Guess what a high templar or a defiler is. A specialist unit meant for support!
A High Templar isn't exactly specialist :[ It's a rather cheap middle game unit. The dark archon is an expensive, situation based unit. Much more specialized than the HT.
The defiler is higher up the tech tree than the queen, but it's rather obvious it's meant to be the main spell caster for zerg - just look at consume. Nothing you do short of making either a) Queen too good or b) Defiler too bad will even it out.. The queen is already great, it's just overshadowed by the defiler.
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That increased cost is because at what the DA is used for, it does GREAT. It doesn't matter the limited scope of its uses, it's A HELL OF A LOT BETTER when you play it for its abilities and not its shortcomings.
I've seen tons of people known and not known use hallucination to win, because it's a damn good spell. Whether it's a giant mass of zealots or on arbiters so they can recall right in the middle of your base. It's a spell that also HAS A LIMITED SCOPE.
Leave tanks the hell alone they do 50% damage to zealots stop your bitching. Just like nukes, why the hell do you think it would be a GOOD thing to make high levels of tech like that available to Terrans for cheaper? Nukes are fine the way they are, EMP + Nuke = thnx now stop your damn whining.
Finally for Queens, mid-late game you need to realize that QUEENS DONT WORK AS WELL AS DEFILERS. Nothing is stopping you from using them but they ARENT AS GOOD
There is no more "adding" viable strategies, there are what works and what doesn't work. It's just like the way Standard Tournaments are for Magic: The Gathering. People have EXHAUSTED what works and what doesn't work to the point you only see those things that kinda work in rare instances. That's the whole point of them, they are surprise factors that are meant to hit your opponent. If there weren't things like this there would be no "Nuclear Launch Detected" warning it would just drop. Live with the game the way it is, it's as balanced enough to where people can play without headaches. We don't need people going "0MFG THEY NEED T0 USE THIS M0RE 0FTEN THAT'D S0 FU><><IN PWNZ0R"
Your "balance" issues are on things that don't need that much tweaking, but like most muleheaded assholes you refuse to accept the fact you're wrong.
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i dont buy that the DA fits a support role very well. if you made protoss weaker, it wouldnt mean that they need to use DA's more. the reason DA's are underused right now isnt convenience. trying to use DA's more would just make toss even weaker. u cant reduce the cost of da, but u can reduce the cost of its spells to make using a da more worthwhile. should you even have to pay for researching any of the da's spells? maybe making all of the spells researched by default would be enough of a change by itself without changing any energy costs.
if u can say "u dont ever need to use this unit, this unit is just showing off basically u can ignore it" it really should be considered u make it slightly more useful.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Ya, hallucination is fucking great~ Used it in 2 games today - let's just say I'd wager I'll hardly play a PvT without trying to use them from now on :O
And the archons you can morph afterwards, ROCK!
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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 08 2004 18:06 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
i dont buy that the DA fits a support role very well. if you made protoss weaker, it wouldnt mean that they need to use DA's more. the reason DA's are underused right now isnt convenience. trying to use DA's more would just make toss even weaker. u cant reduce the cost of da, but u can reduce the cost of its spells to make using a da more worthwhile. should you even have to pay for researching any of the da's spells? maybe making all of the spells researched by default would be enough of a change by itself without changing any energy costs.
if u can say "u dont ever need to use this unit, this unit is just showing off basically u can ignore it" it really should be considered u make it slightly more useful.
Ugh I think Grrr, Reach, Garimto, Nal_ra and intotherain using them in TV games shows it's not useless T_T?
BTW, late game PvZ they are excellent -_-;
I think feedback in PvP has great potential (DT's will become obsolete anyways once the opposition gets obs).
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PissPoorMicro arguing with you is a waste of time.
Do me a favor and go on Neogame-i and then use terran and use your EMP + Nuke = thnx strategy in all of your games and let me know what kind of rating you've accumulated after playing 10 games. Go do it.
And you even admitted that "mid-late game you need to realize that QUEENS DONT WORK AS WELL AS DEFILERS" -- When the hell does queen work good at all? Why would you NOT buff the queen? Are you that stubborn?
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how many geysers do u have to get before building a da? even if you use them in a pvp where you went dts and saved your dts after he got obs, researching spells of the da will usually hurt u more than it helps u that early. its too much of a mineral/gas hit to research their spells. and u cant cast its spells often enough for something that cost you two dt's. mael in pvp? if u get to feedback his HT's then fine. if u get to MC a shuttle with reavers in it or an observer then cool. but wouldnt u usually, most games, , almost all games, be much better off never making a single DA? slowing down ur expo, ur upgrades, any tech.. is not worth the risk. its just a weak thing to do. when u are trying to piss money on a zerg then yeah mael is cool but do you think the game would be ruined if u didnt have to research anything for a DA or if any of the spells cost slightly less energy? if anything it would make the matchup better.
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On July 08 2004 17:06 FrozenArbiter wrote: Show nested quote +On July 08 2004 16:19 WtF.Dondy wrote:
frozenarbiter, city uses the queens only to show off, he took more than half of the map before getting them, i'd not call that effective ;P
by the way, please gimme just one link :I It's not just one game ;o http://ygclan.vgaclub.co.kr/?m=replay Search )is(city or city -_- Sonic)Black uses them alot too~!
okokok, i tried to be lazy, didn't work 
am downloading all city and sonic black reps on ygclan now ;P
btw. searching for )is(city would cause errors in the search engine
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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 08 2004 18:14 tfeign wrote:
PissPoorMicro arguing with you is a waste of time.
Do me a favor and go on Neogame-i and then use terran and use your EMP + Nuke = thnx strategy in all of your games and let me know what kind of rating you've accumulated after playing 10 games. Go do it.
And you even admitted that "mid-late game you need to realize that QUEENS DONT WORK AS WELL AS DEFILERS" -- When the hell does queen work good at all? Why would you NOT buff the queen? Are you that stubborn?
Mid-game and in certain situations queen works better than defilers :/
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Hm... I don't know if it's already been mentioned since I didn't want to read through all ten pages, but changing the scout size from large to medium would certainly make it more useful and cost-efficient.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
I dont think you can maelstorm mechanical units.... on this micro map I tried maelstorming on goons and it just didnt work at all...
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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 08 2004 18:50 Tien wrote:
I dont think you can maelstorm mechanical units.... on this micro map I tried maelstorming on goons and it just didnt work at all...
That's correct, who said otherwise :O?
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One of the main reasons these units arnt being used is because They dont usually ammune to the situations.If a terran went mines/turrets/tanks What good would Dark archons do which a Terran does most of the time If they reacted different maybe so would a protoss player.
And btw Hallucination Owns!!!!
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Just because certain units are used more than others doesnt mean the game is unbalanced.
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On July 08 2004 18:16 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
how many geysers do u have to get before building a da? even if you use them in a pvp where you went dts and saved your dts after he got obs, researching spells of the da will usually hurt u more than it helps u that early. its too much of a mineral/gas hit to research their spells. and u cant cast its spells often enough for something that cost you two dt's. mael in pvp? if u get to feedback his HT's then fine. if u get to MC a shuttle with reavers in it or an observer then cool. but wouldnt u usually, most games, , almost all games, be much better off never making a single DA? slowing down ur expo, ur upgrades, any tech.. is not worth the risk. its just a weak thing to do. when u are trying to piss money on a zerg then yeah mael is cool but do you think the game would be ruined if u didnt have to research anything for a DA or if any of the spells cost slightly less energy? if anything it would make the matchup better. getting a darkarchon/researching maelstrom costs the same as getting an archon (gas-wise, which is what you're talking about). and no, its not just "pissing money" on zerg. it's a viable unit, but most players are too lazy to get it.
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On July 08 2004 19:16 OcToBeR_ToSs wrote:
Just because certain units are used more than others doesnt mean the game is unbalanced.
I don't think that anyone should disagree with this statement, however, just because the game is balanced doesn't mean it couldn't be more fun.
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If you want to have more fun go ahead and use the units
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On July 08 2004 18:43 sushiman wrote:
Hm... I don't know if it's already been mentioned since I didn't want to read through all ten pages, but changing the scout size from large to medium would certainly make it more useful and cost-efficient. why? what units would it need a different armor type for?
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Sweden33719 Posts
Gol and turret would only do 50% : )
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EPT
