EPTAll four maps were official picks for NATE MSL 2009. By (forcibly) taking part, all players had essentially, agreed to accept any disadvantages.
Do you think map imbalances should matter to referees/judges?
[MSL Spoiler] His Overwhelming Advantage - Page 7
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domane
Canada1606 Posts
All four maps were official picks for NATE MSL 2009. By (forcibly) taking part, all players had essentially, agreed to accept any disadvantages. Do you think map imbalances should matter to referees/judges? | ||
KwarK
United States42955 Posts
On January 24 2010 05:57 .risingdragoon wrote: Don't you patronize me. BO5 is all about mental state, it was 1-1 and losing fair and square means the control of games is in your own hand. MSL Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition on this one. If you're going to use stupid arguments like how decisions affect a players mental state then I'm going to logically expand them to show you how stupid they are. If you don't like it then don't use them. It's not my fault that you seem to think the job of Kespa in this situation is to worry about how it might effect game 4 if they give JD the win, rather than to accurately assess who won game 3. In my opinion who won game 3 should be detirmined mainly by factors such as what happened in game 3. Like the fact JaeDong won it. That's the kind of stuff I think is important. But you seem to think they should worry about Flash's mental state going into game 4 when making that decision. So I'm going to go ahead and mock it and if that means you feel patronised then as far as I can see it just illustrates why your point was rather stupid. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On January 24 2010 06:00 AttackZerg wrote: Flash prepared a 7rax for set four. He didn't decide on it then. Jaedong abused flashes build in the two previous games on terran favored maps. Do you realize how easy jaedong would have won on FS if he got away with another 3 hat pool-> muta/ling with fast +1 carp into hive? .... that map would be heaven for jaedong compare to how effective his abuse was the two previous games on maps that are HORRIBLE midgame and lategame zvt. Jaedong took away flashes opening options in this series, flash was going 7rax in set 4 regardless. Game 1 JD 12pool/11gas Game 2 3 hat before pool, fake 3 hat muta into double island expo + double evo gaurdian/ultra rush. Game 3 3 hat before pool -> 3 hat muta/ling with +1carp into fast ultra. Game 4 overpool -> 3 hat mutalisk-> standard zvt. Jaedongs strategic gameplan for the series made it hard for flash to abuse his aggressive versus greedy styles that he variates on zergs so well. I still think mechanically flash is the best player in the world but jaedongs prep put him miles ahead of flash mentally. Flash showed us nothing new this series which for him and his talents just doesn't make sense. If you didn't know who was playing in all four games it could have been hwasin,sea or flash. There was not really any of the crisp flash we've seen lately. actually flash played very hwasin in game 2 and 3. fast ebay for +1 attack | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
On January 24 2010 06:09 domane wrote: But in this controversy, should MBC care about map statistics? They were official picks for NATE MSL 2009. I wonder if it should matter if the maps are fair or not. Even if statistics don't come into play, there's the matter that Jaedong prepared a VERY specific strategy for the map that wold be completely obliterated in a regame. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On January 24 2010 06:08 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Um, no, it's definitely 2-2 lol, I'm looking at the Vod in the Power Underwhelming thread... so am I and I'm watching the korean observer go back and forth SHOWING flashes 3/3 vs jaedongs 5/2. Sorry man but the game would have been over already if you were correct. Your wrong. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On January 24 2010 06:09 KwarK wrote: If you're going to use stupid arguments like how decisions affect a players mental state then I'm going to logically expand them to show you how stupid they are. If you don't like it then don't use them. It's not my fault that you seem to think the job of Kespa in this situation is to worry about how it might effect game 4 if they give JD the win, rather than to accurately assess who won game 3. In my opinion who won game 3 should be detirmined mainly by factors such as what happened in game 3. Like the fact JaeDong won it. That's the kind of stuff I think is important. But you seem to think they should worry about Flash's mental state going into game 4 when making that decision. So I'm going to go ahead and mock it and if that means you feel patronised then as far as I can see it just illustrates why your point was rather stupid. Yeah, and your point somehow makes a normal gg win/loss the same as a power overload, as if MBC didn't have a hand in it. | ||
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KwarK
United States42955 Posts
On January 24 2010 06:12 AttackZerg wrote: so am I and I'm watching the korean observer go back and forth SHOWING flashes 3/3 vs jaedongs 5/2. Sorry man but the game would have been over already if you were correct. Your wrong. It was 3-3. Check the screenshot on page 1. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On January 24 2010 06:10 .risingdragoon wrote: actually flash played very hwasin in game 2 and 3. fast ebay for +1 attack Which is sad, because coming to the msl finals with nothing new is really dumb. "PSSSSSSSSSS watch vods of any terran , imagine another 10-15 marines in every group and you've solved me" | ||
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KwarK
United States42955 Posts
On January 24 2010 06:13 .risingdragoon wrote: Yeah, and your point somehow makes a normal gg win/loss the same as a power overload, as if MBC didn't have a hand in it. In most situations, no. In a situation where a normal gg loss is inevitable and about to happen, yes. | ||
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Sawajiri
Austria417 Posts
On January 24 2010 05:52 KwarK wrote:They should be ready to deal with it, in the same way footballers don't argue with the ref over a yellow card, even when they disagree with it. Ya, so when was the last time you watched a football game? XD No, I see what you mean and I agree. Not messing with the authorities is obviously the smarter thing to do -- I alwasy did think that as a professional sportsman, you needed to have a measure of 'suck it up with a smile' mentality no matter how retarded the ref is being because you just can't win. But it isn't easy, not everyone's cut out to do it personality-wise, and bringing up football in which players regularly get a red card for arguing against their yellow (or a yellow for arguing against a team mate's yellow) was probably not the best example. | ||
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Schnake
Germany2819 Posts
On January 24 2010 03:03 motbob wrote: If Flash broke down mentally, it's his fault, not KeSPA's. It is Kespa's fault because they are responsible for the event. If the blackout had not happened, FLash would not have had a mental breakdown. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
Jaedong was definitely way ahead in game 3. Perhaps Flash could have dropship'd Jaedong's 3'oclock base, which if I recall correctly had 2 or 3 sunkens and no nydus, and thus reduced Jaedong to 2 mining bases and 3 gas (Jaedong's main looked pretty mined or just about to). However, Jaedong probably would have countered to Flash's min only and taken the game if that had happened, as Flash didn't have too many units. However, as we cannot see their resource counters, who knows, though Flash's macro suggests he was probably low on minerals and gas. We also don't know how low the vessels were on energy - what if they had 72 energy or something close to irradiate? If only MBC adopted the resource counter in use by both OGN and TSL (MSL catching up to foreign tourneys in tech? lol?). So, while it didn't look like either player had a particularly good econ (pulling drones to his newest gas makes no drones on minerals at 7 for Jaedong), Jaedong definitely had a better econ, all his tech, and probably good map control, and almost certainly would have won. However, it's just wrong to lose a game like that, where you don't get eliminated and you didn't gg yet, even if gg was probably close. Now, it seems MBC is low on money and so this would be infeasible, but I would have preferred that the entire series be delayed, and picked up a week later with a bo5 on Odd-eye with Jaedong starting 1-0 to determine who gets the game 3 point, and then playing game 4 and 5 out. But, since this is not possible, giving Jaedong the win was the only viable choice for Kespa, and KT shouldn't have delayed the game for so long, as it definitely didn't help out Flash's mental state. I mean, who the hell attacks a sunken line with less medics than sunkens, and not many marines to boot? Also, what is this I heard in the live report thread about a fan breaking into Flash's booth? Is it true? If so, MBC is even more at fault than before. If the venue weren't bad enough to begin with... not even playing live in front of the audience... booth incursions would be even worse. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
Those look like 2's, am I just blind? :S | ||
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PrideNeverDies
Kazakhstan74 Posts
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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Pooshlmer
United States1001 Posts
On January 24 2010 06:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Those look like 2's, am I just blind? :S Looks 100% like a 3 to me. | ||
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Shizuru~
Malaysia1676 Posts
MBC just ruined one of the most epic straleague finals ever, i'd bet that on the next MSL, they'de get a heater manufacturing company as their sponsor | ||
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Denotate
Canada294 Posts
On January 24 2010 02:41 motbob wrote: I posit that in these situations, it is best to take the course of action that screws over a player by the least amount. Dugg for using the word 'posit'. | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
Flash wasn't getting hir third up he had it up... Plz stop making maybes... your not sure as no one is because theres no fucking replay!!! The regame was the corret choice we all know it, many said that JD practice more for that match or that use a special build, who cares? the match wasn't over that was the map to play rematch was the correct choice. | ||
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