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On December 11 2009 17:55 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 17:47 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 17:43 Roffles wrote:On December 11 2009 17:34 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 17:33 eNoq wrote:
I totally agree with Hot_Bid.
And also, i don't think Storrzerg will be too happy if he doesn't get the players he want, which can result in not giving 100% as a coach, and not wanting it so much.. as he would with his own team.
I could be totally wrong ofcourse, maybe he doesn't think that way at all. If he doesn't want to coach D players he doesn't know, he shouldn't sign up to coach the CPL. That's the whole point of it. It's not the Coach-Players-Who-The-Coach-Picks-League. Not to mention its horribly unfair to all those waiting in line. I agree with the first part. If he doesn't wanna coach unknowns, then he shouldn't sign up to coach. However, I disagree with the last part about being unfair. As mentioned earlier, without StorrZerg, we don't have a 16th team. With him, we do possibly have a 16th team. However, if his team is comprised of all his minions, then everyone on the waitlist is screwed anyways. Would you allow a 16th team that was comprised entirely of C players? What about players who were all from one clan? The bottom line is whatever benefit you get from a 16th team can be outweighed by issues of fairness. So it's either 15 teams, everyone waiting is screwed but still happy, or 16 teams with everyone still screwed, but rather pissed that 6 random nobodies got chosen to play.
Either way, they're screwed, but how they feel about the league and stuff will change a ton. True it benefits the league to have an extra team, and true StorrZerg's team wouldn't affect anyone in line. But it's just not right to pick teams in this situation. What about the other coaches? They'd probably love to pick their own teams too. This is exactly why its horribly unfair to those waiting in line. It's not about the pure bottom line effect on them, its about the whole spirit of the league. Mathematically speaking, waitlisters are screwed just as much. However, there's more to it than just math. Either way, it's up to l10f to decide on what's best. Have 16 teams and make it much easier to run, or risk upsetting waitlisters (which may be future CPL players). If CPL goes for more than one season, then the risk of upsetting those waiting in line for a shot isn't worth it IMO. It's not just about upsetting people, it's about doing what is fair and what is right. I think this league is awesome and l10f is great for organizing it so well. He's too nice though -- I certainly wouldn't feel the same way about this league's fairness was compromised just for some scheduling convenience. Gesh having a team all C players would be unfair duh, my team meets the rules, 2 d+ max and 2 z 2 p 2 t. again I was told this would be fine, and that my team would be added. it really isn't that big of an issue as top has said. I'm not screwing out people, all im doing is adding people to the pool.
You're choosing your own players, allowing them to bypass the random chance that everyone else had to go through to get selected. How can you not see how unfair that is?
Also, even if you have 2 D+ max, do you have a D- on your team? Do they all have iccup accounts with several games played, to PROVE that they are of the rank you say they are?
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Pretty clear how Storrzerg tries to drive his team into the league, wanting to play with his friends.
I'd so no contest, no participation, don't think people would like to team up with him anyway after all this.
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Have 16 teams and make it much easier to run, or risk upsetting waitlisters (which may be future CPL players)
This is why I believe that l10f should listen to me as an organizer and saracen as a coach who had experience with that + all the other people who are against it.
It is not that we are picking on storrzerg or something like that even though l10f already said "yes", is that we KNOW that the spirit of the league is in the line here for those who werent chosen...
if you were not part of the league and then you hear that l10f said that "if there are no-shows you will have another chance to participate" but then somebody comes with "6 frieds" and wont coach if its is not them, taking away your chance to participate, how would you feel?... and how would you feel for the NEXT season?
I think you will not like it and for the next season you will still have the feeling that we are not picking random people but instead we are choosing preselected people and you will not want to apply for it.
and you know? there is 150 people in waiting list... yes is only 6, yes it wont "affect the already signed team" but NO.
I say either he wants to coach random people or not.
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Im not screwing anyone out as its been pointed out several times....
League was short on coaches, and teams. I pm'd and i got a response.
"From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: hey
Date: 12/11/09 07:14
nope I'll add you today. I'll give your team extra time to join too."
And the purpose of the tournament is not how people get on teams, its to help D rank players improve and provide a friendly league atmosphere.
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It isnt just l10f's league though is it? I mean, raptor contributed the idea, and raptor helped with all the details, he should definitely have a say in what goes on in the league
On December 11 2009 18:05 StorrZerg wrote:
Im not screwing anyone out as its been pointed out several times....
League was short on coaches, and teams. I pm'd and i got a response.
"From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: hey
Date: 12/11/09 07:14
nope I'll add you today. I'll give your team extra time to join too."
And the purpose of the tournament is not how people get on teams, its to help D rank players improve and provide a friendly league atmosphere.
The point
--------------->
Your head
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On December 11 2009 17:59 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 17:55 StorrZerg wrote:On December 11 2009 17:47 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 17:43 Roffles wrote:On December 11 2009 17:34 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 17:33 eNoq wrote:
I totally agree with Hot_Bid.
And also, i don't think Storrzerg will be too happy if he doesn't get the players he want, which can result in not giving 100% as a coach, and not wanting it so much.. as he would with his own team.
I could be totally wrong ofcourse, maybe he doesn't think that way at all. If he doesn't want to coach D players he doesn't know, he shouldn't sign up to coach the CPL. That's the whole point of it. It's not the Coach-Players-Who-The-Coach-Picks-League. Not to mention its horribly unfair to all those waiting in line. I agree with the first part. If he doesn't wanna coach unknowns, then he shouldn't sign up to coach. However, I disagree with the last part about being unfair. As mentioned earlier, without StorrZerg, we don't have a 16th team. With him, we do possibly have a 16th team. However, if his team is comprised of all his minions, then everyone on the waitlist is screwed anyways. Would you allow a 16th team that was comprised entirely of C players? What about players who were all from one clan? The bottom line is whatever benefit you get from a 16th team can be outweighed by issues of fairness. So it's either 15 teams, everyone waiting is screwed but still happy, or 16 teams with everyone still screwed, but rather pissed that 6 random nobodies got chosen to play.
Either way, they're screwed, but how they feel about the league and stuff will change a ton. True it benefits the league to have an extra team, and true StorrZerg's team wouldn't affect anyone in line. But it's just not right to pick teams in this situation. What about the other coaches? They'd probably love to pick their own teams too. This is exactly why its horribly unfair to those waiting in line. It's not about the pure bottom line effect on them, its about the whole spirit of the league. Mathematically speaking, waitlisters are screwed just as much. However, there's more to it than just math. Either way, it's up to l10f to decide on what's best. Have 16 teams and make it much easier to run, or risk upsetting waitlisters (which may be future CPL players). If CPL goes for more than one season, then the risk of upsetting those waiting in line for a shot isn't worth it IMO. It's not just about upsetting people, it's about doing what is fair and what is right. I think this league is awesome and l10f is great for organizing it so well. He's too nice though -- I certainly wouldn't feel the same way about this league's fairness was compromised just for some scheduling convenience. Gesh having a team all C players would be unfair duh, my team meets the rules, 2 d+ max and 2 z 2 p 2 t. again I was told this would be fine, and that my team would be added. it really isn't that big of an issue as top has said. I'm not screwing out people, all im doing is adding people to the pool. You're choosing your own players, allowing them to bypass the random chance that everyone else had to go through to get selected. How can you not see how unfair that is? Also, even if you have 2 D+ max, do you have a D- on your team? Do they all have iccup accounts with several games played, to PROVE that they are of the rank you say they are?
Again i pm'd l10f the iccup ids, or several ids for some players to show their qualifications.
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Braavos36379 Posts
On December 11 2009 18:05 StorrZerg wrote:
Im not screwing anyone out as its been pointed out several times....
League was short on coaches, and teams. I pm'd and i got a response.
"From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: hey
Date: 12/11/09 07:14
nope I'll add you today. I'll give your team extra time to join too."
And the purpose of the tournament is not how people get on teams, its to help D rank players improve and provide a friendly league atmosphere.
The purpose is to run a fair and friendly league. Inserting teams of friends through an unfair selection process is completely counter to the spirit of this league. Its about pairing D players who otherwise would have trouble finding partners to play with and coaches to teach them. Including your team would ruin the tone of the league (just look at this thread, its all driven to argument because of this) and also is just so blatantly unfair to the many people wanting to be selected.
l10f said yes to you presumably because he is too nice or didn't think enough about it. I think its extremely lame someone had to go and say "I'll coach, but only if my friends can cut the line." What is "friendly" or communal about that sort of action? You just can't coach random Ds? Don't be a coach then. Or run your own league where coaches pick their players.
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On December 11 2009 18:00 eNoq wrote:
Pretty clear how Storrzerg tries to drive his team into the league, wanting to play with his friends.
I'd so no contest, no participation, don't think people would like to team up with him anyway after all this.
What lol, quite wrong you are 
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Braavos36379 Posts
On December 11 2009 18:11 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 18:00 eNoq wrote:
Pretty clear how Storrzerg tries to drive his team into the league, wanting to play with his friends.
I'd so no contest, no participation, don't think people would like to team up with him anyway after all this. What lol, quite wrong you are
He means the entire spirit is for coaches to want players to improve -- players they don't even know yet. Your friends can ask you for advice whenever they want and you'll probably help them. The fact that you demanded to select your team just shows you're unwilling to teach D strangers. That in itself is fine, not many people can make that time commitment, I certainly can't. But it shows your lack of enthusiasm for the spirit behind this sort of league, and if I was a D player (who wasn't your friend), I'd certainly be a less attractive coach than someone who actually wanted to coach new players and wasn't making demands. I'd want to learn from someone who wanted to teach me.
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On December 11 2009 18:10 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 18:05 StorrZerg wrote:
Im not screwing anyone out as its been pointed out several times....
League was short on coaches, and teams. I pm'd and i got a response.
"From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: hey
Date: 12/11/09 07:14
nope I'll add you today. I'll give your team extra time to join too."
And the purpose of the tournament is not how people get on teams, its to help D rank players improve and provide a friendly league atmosphere. The purpose is to run a fair and friendly league. Inserting teams of friends through an unfair selection process is completely counter to the spirit of this league. Its about pairing D players who otherwise would have trouble finding partners to play with and coaches to teach them. Including your team would ruin the tone of the league (just look at this thread, its all driven to argument because of this) and also is just so blatantly unfair to the many people wanting to be selected. l10f said yes to you presumably because he is too nice or didn't think enough about it. I think its extremely lame someone had to go and say "I'll coach, but only if my friends can cut the line." What is "friendly" or communal about that sort of action? You just can't coach random Ds? Don't be a coach then. Or run your own league where coaches pick their players.
You wanna sign up for the 16th spot?
Hey, if 2 other coaches are willing to step up to take the 16th spot, then they should have it.
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On December 11 2009 14:23 T.O.P. wrote:
I don't get what's the big deal. Storrzerg wants to play with his friends. l10f would like to have 16 teams. Both parties mutually benefit.
Who cares that Storrzerg gets to handpick his team and the rest of the Coaches didn't get a chance? CPL isn't about winning or losing, coaches shouldn't care about the fact that they didn't get to draft their team. CPL is about the process that these players go through. The priority of CPL is to foster an environment so people can have fun learning sc. Storrzerg and his friends will enjoy this league more if they get to play together.
Lastly, you said it was unfair to the people on the waitlist. Well, it's too bad for them. Storrzerg's friends get to play in the CPL because they got connections. Same in real life. People get jobs through connections, not by applying at monster.com
Sure that's what happens in real life. Nepotism happens. Injustices, criminalized and not, happen every day, but the existence of misconduct cannot be the justification of misconduct. Just sayin' that the "it's too bad, but it happens, so let it happen" philosophy is an incredibly lazy way through life. Strives against racism and other cruelties were not made with that line of thought.
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On December 11 2009 18:15 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 18:11 StorrZerg wrote:On December 11 2009 18:00 eNoq wrote:
Pretty clear how Storrzerg tries to drive his team into the league, wanting to play with his friends.
I'd so no contest, no participation, don't think people would like to team up with him anyway after all this. What lol, quite wrong you are He means the entire spirit is for coaches to want players to improve -- players they don't even know yet. Your friends can ask you for advice whenever they want and you'll probably help them. The fact that you demanded to select your team just shows you're unwilling to teach D strangers. That in itself is fine, not many people can make that time commitment, I certainly can't. But it shows your lack of enthusiasm for the spirit behind this sort of league, and if I was a D player (who wasn't your friend), I'd certainly be a less attractive coach than someone who actually wanted to coach new players and wasn't making demands. I'd want to learn from someone who wanted to teach me.
Thanks for wording it so nicely Hot_Bid 
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Braavos36379 Posts
On December 11 2009 18:16 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 18:10 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 18:05 StorrZerg wrote:
Im not screwing anyone out as its been pointed out several times....
League was short on coaches, and teams. I pm'd and i got a response.
"From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: hey
Date: 12/11/09 07:14
nope I'll add you today. I'll give your team extra time to join too."
And the purpose of the tournament is not how people get on teams, its to help D rank players improve and provide a friendly league atmosphere. The purpose is to run a fair and friendly league. Inserting teams of friends through an unfair selection process is completely counter to the spirit of this league. Its about pairing D players who otherwise would have trouble finding partners to play with and coaches to teach them. Including your team would ruin the tone of the league (just look at this thread, its all driven to argument because of this) and also is just so blatantly unfair to the many people wanting to be selected. l10f said yes to you presumably because he is too nice or didn't think enough about it. I think its extremely lame someone had to go and say "I'll coach, but only if my friends can cut the line." What is "friendly" or communal about that sort of action? You just can't coach random Ds? Don't be a coach then. Or run your own league where coaches pick their players. You wanna sign up for the 16th spot? Hey, if 2 other coaches are willing to step up to take the 16th spot, then they should have it.
I'll sign up, provided I'm allowed to pick the players I want from other teams, including your own. I want an international breakfast delivered to my room every morning, and an assistant coach that's at least C+, and I want to be able to ban anyone on the waitlist I don't like.
Don't worry though, my team will be all Ds so its fair right?
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On December 11 2009 18:19 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 18:16 StorrZerg wrote:On December 11 2009 18:10 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 18:05 StorrZerg wrote:
Im not screwing anyone out as its been pointed out several times....
League was short on coaches, and teams. I pm'd and i got a response.
"From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: hey
Date: 12/11/09 07:14
nope I'll add you today. I'll give your team extra time to join too."
And the purpose of the tournament is not how people get on teams, its to help D rank players improve and provide a friendly league atmosphere. The purpose is to run a fair and friendly league. Inserting teams of friends through an unfair selection process is completely counter to the spirit of this league. Its about pairing D players who otherwise would have trouble finding partners to play with and coaches to teach them. Including your team would ruin the tone of the league (just look at this thread, its all driven to argument because of this) and also is just so blatantly unfair to the many people wanting to be selected. l10f said yes to you presumably because he is too nice or didn't think enough about it. I think its extremely lame someone had to go and say "I'll coach, but only if my friends can cut the line." What is "friendly" or communal about that sort of action? You just can't coach random Ds? Don't be a coach then. Or run your own league where coaches pick their players. You wanna sign up for the 16th spot? Hey, if 2 other coaches are willing to step up to take the 16th spot, then they should have it. I'll sign up, provided I'm allowed to pick the players I want from other teams, including your own. I want an international breakfast delivered to my room every morning, and an assistant coach that's at least C+, and I want to be able to ban anyone on the waitlist I don't like. Don't worry though, my team will be all Ds so its fair right?
How would you like your eggs in the morning? :p
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On December 11 2009 18:19 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 18:16 StorrZerg wrote:On December 11 2009 18:10 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 18:05 StorrZerg wrote:
Im not screwing anyone out as its been pointed out several times....
League was short on coaches, and teams. I pm'd and i got a response.
"From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: hey
Date: 12/11/09 07:14
nope I'll add you today. I'll give your team extra time to join too."
And the purpose of the tournament is not how people get on teams, its to help D rank players improve and provide a friendly league atmosphere. The purpose is to run a fair and friendly league. Inserting teams of friends through an unfair selection process is completely counter to the spirit of this league. Its about pairing D players who otherwise would have trouble finding partners to play with and coaches to teach them. Including your team would ruin the tone of the league (just look at this thread, its all driven to argument because of this) and also is just so blatantly unfair to the many people wanting to be selected. l10f said yes to you presumably because he is too nice or didn't think enough about it. I think its extremely lame someone had to go and say "I'll coach, but only if my friends can cut the line." What is "friendly" or communal about that sort of action? You just can't coach random Ds? Don't be a coach then. Or run your own league where coaches pick their players. You wanna sign up for the 16th spot? Hey, if 2 other coaches are willing to step up to take the 16th spot, then they should have it. I'll sign up, provided I'm allowed to pick the players I want from other teams, including your own. I want an international breakfast delivered to my room every morning, and an assistant coach that's at least C+, and I want to be able to ban anyone on the waitlist I don't like. Don't worry though, my team will be all Ds so its fair right?
Its about as fair as storrzergs demands so dont see a problem with that
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On December 11 2009 15:04 Roffles wrote:
Question: What do I do if I can't contact a coach of mine? Seems like one of my coaches can't contact him as well.
Can your other coach run the team alone? because the main Idea was 1 coach - 5 pupils but the 2 coaches per team was better but is not a strict rule, there is a team iirc that only has 1 coach.
If he doesnt want to do it alone or cant I will PM l10f to see what we can do about it.
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On December 11 2009 18:19 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 18:16 StorrZerg wrote:On December 11 2009 18:10 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 18:05 StorrZerg wrote:
Im not screwing anyone out as its been pointed out several times....
League was short on coaches, and teams. I pm'd and i got a response.
"From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: hey
Date: 12/11/09 07:14
nope I'll add you today. I'll give your team extra time to join too."
And the purpose of the tournament is not how people get on teams, its to help D rank players improve and provide a friendly league atmosphere. The purpose is to run a fair and friendly league. Inserting teams of friends through an unfair selection process is completely counter to the spirit of this league. Its about pairing D players who otherwise would have trouble finding partners to play with and coaches to teach them. Including your team would ruin the tone of the league (just look at this thread, its all driven to argument because of this) and also is just so blatantly unfair to the many people wanting to be selected. l10f said yes to you presumably because he is too nice or didn't think enough about it. I think its extremely lame someone had to go and say "I'll coach, but only if my friends can cut the line." What is "friendly" or communal about that sort of action? You just can't coach random Ds? Don't be a coach then. Or run your own league where coaches pick their players. You wanna sign up for the 16th spot? Hey, if 2 other coaches are willing to step up to take the 16th spot, then they should have it. I'll sign up, provided I'm allowed to pick the players I want from other teams, including your own. I want an international breakfast delivered to my room every morning, and an assistant coach that's at least C+, and I want to be able to ban anyone on the waitlist I don't like. Don't worry though, my team will be all Ds so its fair right?
only c+ why not just get some x Korean coaches?
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On December 11 2009 18:25 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2009 18:19 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 18:16 StorrZerg wrote:On December 11 2009 18:10 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 11 2009 18:05 StorrZerg wrote:
Im not screwing anyone out as its been pointed out several times....
League was short on coaches, and teams. I pm'd and i got a response.
"From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: hey
Date: 12/11/09 07:14
nope I'll add you today. I'll give your team extra time to join too."
And the purpose of the tournament is not how people get on teams, its to help D rank players improve and provide a friendly league atmosphere. The purpose is to run a fair and friendly league. Inserting teams of friends through an unfair selection process is completely counter to the spirit of this league. Its about pairing D players who otherwise would have trouble finding partners to play with and coaches to teach them. Including your team would ruin the tone of the league (just look at this thread, its all driven to argument because of this) and also is just so blatantly unfair to the many people wanting to be selected. l10f said yes to you presumably because he is too nice or didn't think enough about it. I think its extremely lame someone had to go and say "I'll coach, but only if my friends can cut the line." What is "friendly" or communal about that sort of action? You just can't coach random Ds? Don't be a coach then. Or run your own league where coaches pick their players. You wanna sign up for the 16th spot? Hey, if 2 other coaches are willing to step up to take the 16th spot, then they should have it. I'll sign up, provided I'm allowed to pick the players I want from other teams, including your own. I want an international breakfast delivered to my room every morning, and an assistant coach that's at least C+, and I want to be able to ban anyone on the waitlist I don't like. Don't worry though, my team will be all Ds so its fair right? only c+ why not just get some x Korean coaches?
thats my question to you, which in 3 times which I have asked you have answered none...
why does it has to be those 6 friends and no others?
why do you have the attitude those 6 or I will not coach mother fuckers...
I would say if you dont like it you dont have to join CPL. But dont try to impose those 6 guys on us who created the event dude.
Maybe it is fine for some people and l10f seems to have no problems with it, but me and others dont see it fair. So take it how you want.
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Oh man, if there are no-shows tomorrow or a new team forms I have a decent shot 
The biggest thing in the way is probably the time zone. Then there's one P and one T member ahead of my post so hopefully there will be need for two Terrans 
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On December 11 2009 14:23 T.O.P. wrote:
I don't get what's the big deal. Storrzerg wants to play with his friends. l10f would like to have 16 teams. Both parties mutually benefit.
Who cares that Storrzerg gets to handpick his team and the rest of the Coaches didn't get a chance? CPL isn't about winning or losing, coaches shouldn't care about the fact that they didn't get to draft their team. CPL is about the process that these players go through. The priority of CPL is to foster an environment so people can have fun learning sc. Storrzerg and his friends will enjoy this league more if they get to play together.
Lastly, you said it was unfair to the people on the waitlist. Well, it's too bad for them. Storrzerg's friends get to play in the CPL because they got connections. Same in real life. People get jobs through connections, not by applying at monster.com
It all makes sense now. Storrzerg got no connections on TL. That's why he's not gonna get a team.
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EPT
