EPTAttitudes toward cheaters - Page 2
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
It should probably be handled on a case by case basis for that, and it's pretty rare that it ever comes up in a game where it changes the course. Observer cheating is really bothersome because it's 2 people breaching trust rather than just one. However, most of them should likely be handled on a case by case basis regardless. | ||
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gumbum8
United States721 Posts
-Abusing for laddering is stupid and doesn't bother me at all. the only one you can really fool is you. Obviously the question is how to handle malicious intent in gaming. obviously there must be consequences. Severe consequences. I'm not saying lifelong ban from everything Starcraft, but I think there needs to be a way of identifying ex cheaters, like a red strikethrough on their name or something. I believe we have a really good community here; I think even someone who has cheated and has this mark could eventually regain some respect, however I think this is the best possible way to punish these people. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27174 Posts
On August 31 2009 12:01 ghermination wrote: I'm all for the anti-cheating stance, and admittedly i think hackers should be punished and they both were - BY BEING I.P. BANNED FROM ICCUP. There is absolutely NO reason to treat good, contributing members like that. I love this forum but Chill i'm kind of dissapointed that you did that. But by not banning him, doesn't that send the message that we don't support a fair play environment? Doesn't his ban for hacking on iccup taint the contributions he does here, like his tournaments etc? We are a community that uses several different websites as a whole, I don't think you are a different person depending on which site you transgress on. Obviously there are different levels of cooperation between sites though. | ||
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Triple7
United States656 Posts
1. Maphacking (Most effortless of all ways to rob a hard worker of points) 2. Observer cheating (generally functions as a lesser map hack) 3. In game glitches (Can be accidental, but ultimately the same consequences as the others) 4. Ladder abuse (Easy to catch, and easy to avoid) As for cases like Clazz, I guess they should be banned, as I see no other way to ensure TL's principles even if they were really good people  | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On August 31 2009 12:01 ghermination wrote: I'm all for the anti-cheating stance, and admittedly i think hackers should be punished and they both were - BY BEING I.P. BANNED FROM ICCUP. There is absolutely NO reason to treat good, contributing members like that. I love this forum but Chill i'm kind of dissapointed that you did that. Contributing does not make you immune to punishment. Hacking is literally the worst thing you can do in this community. If i raped and killed you (kinky right?) would it be ok cause i volunteer in some local charity? | ||
BroOd
Austin10833 Posts
On August 31 2009 12:01 ghermination wrote: There is absolutely NO reason to treat good, contributing members like that. I love this forum but Chill i'm kind of dissapointed that you did that. he hacked in liquid tourney #3 | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On August 31 2009 12:09 Manifesto7 wrote: But by not banning him, doesn't that send the message that we don't support a fair play environment? Doesn't his ban for hacking on iccup taint the contributions he does here, like his tournaments etc? We are a community that uses several different websites as a whole, I don't think you are a different person depending on which site you transgress on. Obviously there are different levels of cooperation between sites though. I completely agree. If it was non-community setting he can do whatever he wants imo, but breaking the rules in community tournament is similar to breaking the rules on the forums. | ||
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Ftrunkz
Australia2474 Posts
Context is also important. Cheating on a ladder/in a tournament with people playing competitively should be much harsher then someone obs cheating in a random ums. i think 3 month ban in appropriate for the first offence cheating in a ladder/tournament. If they do it again in a ladder or tournament after that, perm ban. As for random one off games where its just friends playing or custom games that dont really count for anything, its hard to say. I'd say no punishment until proven in a tournament game but i dont really know :o. One things for sure, life bans on the first offense would be way to harsh. When i was like 15 i hacked for a while in sc after i heard it was possible, hell im sure a lot of community members here have done the same when they were younger (willing to admit it or not). If i was life banned from everything starcraft after that, it woulda been pretty harsh... | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Which he was organizing too :\ | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
In the heat of the moment, things happen, people do stupid shit. For all I know, some previously known hackers are still around in the TL community. If people are willing enough to man up and say "Yeah, I fucked up. I'll serve my time and come back clean on a fresh slate", I firmly believe that they should be given a second chance. As for abuse, I believe everything should be judged from case to case. The severity of abuse differs in each case, as each situation is different. In game glitches I'd rate as the least severe because well at times, people are unaware of whats allowed, whats not allowed, etc. Ladder abuse is just lame, but not really harmful. If they really wanna spend that time abusing their way to the top, let them be. Doesn't help or improve their overall skill level whatsoever. Program hacking and Observer cheating on the other hand are quite harmful and I'd rate them as probably the top offenses. But once again, I do think that second chances should be given. Their reps are already trashed as is, and only time will help. It'll take lots of effort from them to re-establish their credibility. If they're willing to reform and show remorse for what they've done, I still think they should be given a second chance after they've served their time. Their reps won't be mended immediately, but rather over time. If they're willing to spend the time to rebuild and reestablish any credibility, then they should be given a second chance. Repeat offenders should just be disregarded and well thrown into the Automated Ban List. Don't wanna reform and change? Then get the fuck out. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Clasic
Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On August 31 2009 12:19 Kennigit wrote: For reference i feel if someone has been banned for hacking they should have to work their way back in after a long period away and donate something time, money etc (community service ho ho!). Lmao, lets make him read out a essay of how hacking hurts the e-sports community and stream it? | ||
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
On August 31 2009 12:12 Kennigit wrote: This is a home to top broodwar players. When someone is banned from this site for hacking it isn't for our (staff) benefit. Beyond the "moral compass" argument, we couldn't give a fuck. It's for the justice that legit players deserve. Think of how often someone posts a thread saying "DID THIS GUY HACK???" What can you do? Get your win back? Is that justice? I think we have a responsibility to make it so abhorrently unacceptable to hack that you get what you deserve no matter who you are or what you contribute. Is that fair? Maybe not, but neither is cheating. Contributing does not make you immune to punishment. Hacking is literally the worst thing you can do in this community. If i raped and killed you (kinky right?) would it be ok cause i volunteer in some local charity? Clazz has been around here for a couple years and helped to organize several tournaments (admittedly he hacked in one of them, although i don't know if that was the time he was caught hacking in that two day period or if there were others) but honestly i think 30 or 90 day would suffice here, he's a really valuable community member. To use your own analogy, if you killed me and then, and ONLY then sexed up my dead corpse, (because dead people don't say no), you would most likely not recieve the "death penalty" (perma ban) but instead prison time. Admittedly quite a bit of prison time, but in the light of your donation to charity, i'm pretty sure it would be in countable years (30-50? I don't know how long people are sentenced). I'm sorry if i'm not getting my point across perfectly, but i guess i just have a moral objection to this (banning clazz) at a really deep level. | ||
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gumbum8
United States721 Posts
On August 31 2009 12:19 Kennigit wrote: For reference i feel if someone has been banned for hacking they should have to work their way back in after a long period away and donate something time, money etc (community service ho ho!). this | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
oh, and Should there be forgiveness? always. eventually. Does what someone does outside the game (organization, contributions, etc) be factored into things? Generally I say yes, because breaking the rules on the forum generally isn't so black and white. But cheating is cheating. What he does outside of it is irrelevant, imo. How would you like to see them dealt with? elongated humiliation from the community. it will better them as a person. and it would be unpleasant. | ||
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Triple7
United States656 Posts
On August 31 2009 12:21 Clasic wrote: Lmao, lets make him read out a essay of how hacking hurts the e-sports community and stream it? Definitely something of this ilk! | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On August 31 2009 12:22 ghermination wrote: Clazz has been around here for a couple years and helped to organize several tournaments (admittedly he hacked in one of them, although i don't know if that was the time he was caught hacking in that two day period or if there were others) but honestly i think 30 or 90 day would suffice here, he's a really valuable community member. To use your own analogy, if you killed me and then, and ONLY then sexed up my dead corpse, (because dead people don't say no), you would most likely not recieve the "death penalty" (perma ban) but instead prison time. Admittedly quite a bit of prison time, but in the light of your donation to charity, i'm pretty sure it would be in countable years (30-50? I don't know how long people are sentenced). I'm sorry if i'm not getting my point across perfectly, but i guess i just have a moral objection to this (banning clazz) at a really deep level. Your argument is that someone's history should have an effect on the punishment they get...that is not how the justice system works lol. | ||
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