A quick translation of some quotations from the article.
At the Bacchus OSL 2009 Final: "After FA was declared, I avoided speaking to the media because I thought it might put pressure on Jaedong. I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game, so I didn't have any flowers prepared."
Asked about negotiation breakdowns with OZ: "Professionals are represented by pride, popularity, and right compensation for their performance. If a player contributes to his team, it's right that he receive fair compensation for it. There were a lot of disappointments during the negotiations. For the sake of e-sports, I think it would be good if some day the details of our negotiations were revealed."
"A lot of the media stories on what happened during the negotiations are either miscommunicated, or just twisted from their original purpose. It makes it look like we (JD's parents) are trying to interfere with our son's future just for money, but this is a misunderstanding. They are missing a really important point. Being active as a progamer is important of course, but it's disappointing that you can't can do other things to enjoy your free time, like hobbies, studying, exercising etc."
"The burden and stress Jaedong faces as the team's ace is so great it's sad. I hope he gets a chance to play in a better environment."
He also revealed that no teams have approached them so far adding "We'll talk to Jaedong about it after the final, and we want to hear what he has to say. If we think he's judging things incorrectly, correcting those is part of a parent's duty."
When asked about what would happen if there were no offers, he said "It doesn't matter if he doesn't get any offers from other teams. He's broken all the important records in e-sports, and I think he's very satisfied. At this point, one of the options we're thinking about is retirement, and going to study abroad in computer related field. We are going to have a serious conversation with Jaedong about his future."
"How ever this FA ends, we are thankful to the OZ players, Coach Han, Coach Cho who has mentored Jaedong with all his heart, (and his wife)."
Another viewpoint on the story, one wonders where the truth actually lies.
as far as i'm concerned, much of the progaming scene is one giant human rights violation. players and parents NEED to start pushing for better playing conditions and players' rights!
i wouldn't be surprised if he does decide to quit early to start his university studies, i mean he is at an appropriate age to do them right now. 3 years, then comes back and rapes sc2.
Jaedong! if ever you retire! the Philippines is the cheapest place in earth and we have alot of beautiful women and beaches! We also are gosu in computer courses yo!
Kidding aside:
Man, Too early to retire for an overachieving 19 year old. He can still get that platinum mouse and really solidify his legacy in e-sports.
Tbh, it's really shocking no one is interested in getting JD to their team.
This is really something, stupid Hwaseung corp, why can't you just pay up and make everyone happy? Jaedong's too good to be wasted off for something , while practical, won't be something he enjoys. Progamers become progamers for the love of the game and competition.
Omgomgomgomgomg, please, god please don't let JD go. SC without a great Zerg is lame and Kr pro scene without JD can't be the same. omgomgomg, JD don't gooooo !
My mouth was literally agape for a good minute when I read this, jaedong has so much potential to be the best player ever, and his parents are going to make him throw it all away? If he wants to stay it's wrong of his parents to force him to quit, as he could go so much farther in eSports.
I think they are just playing chicken with OZ in the case there are no offers at the end of the FA period. OZ has said they are willing to pay their original offer, but this way JD's side can threaten with out and out retirement if they don't get an improved offer. This is a dangerous game to play, if OZ decides to stick to their guns too.
Retirement will never be an option. This has to be a negotiation tactic.
Sending a kid abroad cost tons of money. If his parents are negotiating 40 million won worth of salary with Oz, then it's clear they're not super-rich. I don't know about the earning potential in Korea's corporate world, but in the US, Jaedong would be making mid-level manager salary for a major company. Or an experienced engineer should he go into the technical field. Either way, it's possible that his later-life earning potential will never reach his salary at Oz. And this doesn't even take into account the devaluing of money over time.
JD is at a point where he's finally "cashing in", so to speak, on his play and fame. If he really is getting overworkd, Jaedong can always take the "Stork route" and just slack off. And just play WoW and pimping girls in his spare time.
Yeah, I really don't see him reaching as high up in any other field as he has done in SC. It's not that he's not talented, but to get to #1 in any field is an uphill task, and it doesn't make much sense to withdraw when he is clearly at the peak of his game.
Still, worrying about kids' futures is what parents do, and I understand why they'd want him to qualify. He's doing great now, but history tells us that progamers do fall, and that when they do, they just go completely off the radar. What they say about free time is true as well. He's 19 - he should be out with his friends, not single handedly carrying a pro team by practising 12 hours a day.
In the end it's all about opportunity cost, I guess. I hope he gets to do what he wants though, because that's the most important thing.
Edit: I'm not ruling out that this may be a negotiation tactic at all, just thought I'd take their statement at face value, since it's good to look at it from that perspective as well.
On August 24 2009 16:11 baubo wrote: Retirement will never be an option. This has to be a negotiation tactic.
Sending a kid abroad cost tons of money. If his parents are negotiating 40 million won worth of salary with Oz, then it's clear they're not super-rich. I don't know about the earning potential in Korea's corporate world, but in the US, Jaedong would be making mid-level manager salary for a major company. Or an experienced engineer should he go into the technical field. Either way, it's possible that his later-life earning potential will never reach his salary at Oz. And this doesn't even take into account the devaluing of money over time.
JD is at a point where he's finally "cashing in", so to speak, on his play and fame. If he really is getting overworkd, Jaedong can always take the "Stork route" and just slack off. And just play WoW and pimping girls in his spare time.
For whatever leverage it gives them with OZ, doesn't this actually de-incentivize other teams from giving him offers in the remaining day? At an estimated 300,000,000 won or more to acquire Jaedong (all costs combined), I think the major competitors might as well be happy enough to get rid of him for no cost at all.
Realistically though,. What's to stop Jaedong from taking 6 months or so off and coming back to the pro-scene when he turns 20?
Also, can't his parents just encourage him to sign the contract and let him stop practicing for a while, and have him enjoy his time. Sure his skill will deteriorate but hell, Oz will be forced to find other options. It seems his parents are concerned more about Jaedong's well being that about money and I really respect that.
For the sake of e-sports, I think it would be good if some day the details of our negotiations were revealed.
Now I really want to know GODDAMNIT
fuck, if only Jaedong could go back in time and change the past this shit would be better than Lost right now.
Just how much is KESPA involved in the teams? If its actually just like some kind of cabal that can tell teams what to do, I could totally see it going one way or another just based on how much money KESPA thinks JD's participation in e-sports will bring in vs. making an example of him to prevent other players from trying to renegotiate better deals.
On August 24 2009 16:11 baubo wrote: Retirement will never be an option. This has to be a negotiation tactic.
Sending a kid abroad cost tons of money. If his parents are negotiating 40 million won worth of salary with Oz, then it's clear they're not super-rich. I don't know about the earning potential in Korea's corporate world, but in the US, Jaedong would be making mid-level manager salary for a major company. Or an experienced engineer should he go into the technical field. Either way, it's possible that his later-life earning potential will never reach his salary at Oz. And this doesn't even take into account the devaluing of money over time.
JD is at a point where he's finally "cashing in", so to speak, on his play and fame. If he really is getting overworkd, Jaedong can always take the "Stork route" and just slack off. And just play WoW and pimping girls in his spare time.
For whatever leverage it gives them with OZ, doesn't this actually de-incentivize other teams from giving him offers in the remaining day? At an estimated 300,000,000 won or more to acquire Jaedong (all costs combined), I think the major competitors might as well be happy enough to get rid of him for no cost at all.
I don't see how this affect other's team's impression of him. They're not going to just not make an offer on the off-chance that he retires. Especially since it's fairly clear that teams don't have the 300 - 400 million won to throw at him.
I say this is a negotation tactic because the "Free Agency" is so biased towards the original team that players have no leverage. That's why Oz can lowball Jaedong without fear of anyone else getting him.
Spend 2 more years becoming incredibly famous and winning thousands of dollars and never having to worry about anything in life vs going to university and getting an education and spending the rest of your life in a 9-5 job. Gee his parents are truly great.
On August 24 2009 16:11 baubo wrote: Retirement will never be an option. This has to be a negotiation tactic.
Pretty much. No way he's actually gonna retire haha.
His parents are starting to sound like giant douches :\
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Education is pretty important, culturally, and I can imagine there's some sincerity behind Jaedon'g being overworked and what not. I would be sorely disappointed, but a line needs to be drawn between what is and is not an acceptable level of compensation for someone who works that hard and is an integral part of an institution.
On August 24 2009 16:11 baubo wrote: Retirement will never be an option. This has to be a negotiation tactic.
Sending a kid abroad cost tons of money. If his parents are negotiating 40 million won worth of salary with Oz, then it's clear they're not super-rich. I don't know about the earning potential in Korea's corporate world, but in the US, Jaedong would be making mid-level manager salary for a major company. Or an experienced engineer should he go into the technical field. Either way, it's possible that his later-life earning potential will never reach his salary at Oz. And this doesn't even take into account the devaluing of money over time.
JD is at a point where he's finally "cashing in", so to speak, on his play and fame. If he really is getting overworkd, Jaedong can always take the "Stork route" and just slack off. And just play WoW and pimping girls in his spare time.
For whatever leverage it gives them with OZ, doesn't this actually de-incentivize other teams from giving him offers in the remaining day? At an estimated 300,000,000 won or more to acquire Jaedong (all costs combined), I think the major competitors might as well be happy enough to get rid of him for no cost at all.
I don't see how this affect other's team's impression of him. They're not going to just not make an offer on the off-chance that he retires. Especially since it's fairly clear that teams don't have the 300 - 400 million won to throw at him.
I say this is a negotation tactic because the "Free Agency" is so biased towards the original team that players have no leverage. That's why Oz can lowball Jaedong without fear of anyone else getting him.
I believe he was saying it's incentive for them to not make offers as if Hwaseung doesn't do something he will retire... and then not be a threat to the other teams (aka one less team to worry about). I could be wrong, I only read it by once.
On August 24 2009 16:30 General Nuke Em wrote: Just how much is KESPA involved in the teams? If its actually just like some kind of cabal that can tell teams what to do, I could totally see it going one way or another just based on how much money KESPA thinks JD's participation in e-sports will bring in vs. making an example of him to prevent other players from trying to renegotiate better deals.
You know, that's what I thought after I read this article. Both sides are angry over the contract negotiations, or else Oz won't have to make up a reason why Jaedong didn't sign and Jaedong's dad won't have to go to the media. Oz probably complained to KESPA and they probably told all the teams not to offer Jaedong a contract. Team's have a incentive to do this because they don't want their own players holding out of a better contract, if Jaedong gets punished, no player will try to reject their team's offer again.
Jd's parents really take care of him. That's a good point.
I really hope for him that he could stay with Hwaseung or in a new team and keep playing for other acheivements.
I am little bit disappointed about this sentence: "At this point, one of the options we're thinking about is retirement, and going to study abroad in computer related field".
Send JD in another country study computer sciences, don't match at all with StarCraft. If in the worts case he "retires", the best way for him is maybe to become a commentator or something like that.
There is no way Jaedong is gonna retire lol This is solely a negotiation tactic. 1. Jaedong's parents wanted a better contract. Oz refused. 2. Jaedong's parents declared his son an FA. 3. Deadline is approaching but no team has made any offer. 4. Oz smirks. Jaedong's dad doesn't like it so he plays hardball, hence a lose-lose situation (more like a lose-lose-lose-lose seeing how it affects jaedong, his parents, Oz and us).
If none of the teams makes any better offer, I believe Jaedong's parents will have to announce stuffs like "After blah blah blah ... Jaedong has been trying to convince us blah blah blah ... so we decided to let the boy do what he desires ... blah blah blah".
Seems to me his parents really are just looking out for him. I do get the feeling they care both about the money and his schedule. I certainly can sympathize with that since i don't believe a 12-14 hour training schedule is healthy or productive.
I never was a Jaedong fan though i certainly aknowledged his skill. I always loved rooting against him (mostly in vain ofc). It really would be a shame if he retired especially since all the accomplishments of players in the wake of his retirement would be hollow. Even if somebody else starts dominating like Bisu or Flash you could'nt help to always compare to Jaedong.
On August 24 2009 17:02 GoSu wrote: Send JD in another country study computer sciences, don't match at all with StarCraft. If in the worts case he "retires", the best way for him is maybe to become a commentator or something like that.
Man. Jaedong is 19. Why should he become a commentator of a game, which propably will not be played in 2 years anymore? If he really retires, I hope he wont, he should study and try to get a good job.
At the Bacchus OSL 2009 Final: "After FA was declared, I avoided speaking to the media because I thought it might put pressure on Jaedong. I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game, so I didn't have any flowers prepared."
Wow, they're probably underestimating their son there. they need to either watch more starcraft, look at some stats or read fanboy articles here at TL
Jaedong is already (arguably) the best zerg player ever. He doesn't have much else to prove. He should consider studying to get a job that is more sustainable in the long term, as well as one that is healthier/less stressful.
This reminds me of the fight against Walmart. People criticize it for it's mistreatment of workers, yet due to its great prices, we still flock there. Although there are the solemn few who avoid Walmart, the majority of the consumers negate their efforts.
The same can be said for Jaedong. We as a large fanbase will hate Esports for being stingy with Jaedong ( if hardball with Oz fails and he does retire) , but most of will still continue watching it. I mean JD is great and he's the only reason I've started watching other progamers play, but I am not so faithful to him that just because he is ousted, will I stop watching esports.
Since the foreign community is most likely a satellite comparison of the korean sc community, I can see them having the same angers as we do, but unlike us they pay (no idea how much) to go to the arena's and watch the game.
Hopefully JD's parent's stand can serve a martyr-like purpose and prevent future Progamers in Sc2 from being ground to stone from FA abuse.
Anyone who is seriously putting down Jaedongs parents for what they said about his chances in the finals, you need to realize something. They know what kind of stress and mental health their son is in, they know what he is going through. You dont. Its entirely possible that he was going through a hard time, being extremely exhausted, and losing in the Proleague finals after being considered the team himself. They also said he only practiced 1 day for the finals. 1 day... Had i known that prior to the Finals, my money wouldve been on Yarnc. They had every right to make that assumption.
jaedong as the only really worthy player on the team is given a lot of pressure and is the "breadwinner" of OZ, he should be payed proportionately.
and if he doesnt get his money? then i really dont see what is so bad with going abroad to study university, afterall he cant be this good forever and then suddenly you find yourself much older than your peers with less than half their education and know how of the real world.
If the ridiculous FA policy weren't here, this wouldn't even be a question, every progaming team would be offering JD 200-250 mil to go play with them.
"After FA was declared, I avoided speaking to the media because I thought it might put pressure on Jaedong. I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game, so I didn't have any flowers prepared."
What a douchebag. Does he even know who his son is?
What's wrong with JD not going to college for another couple years? He can make the equivalent of ($150k-175k USD) per year pretty easily with bonuses and advertisers, and just hit college a little later with a HUGE-ASS BANK ACCOUNT backing him up.
Of course, JD himself might actually be physically exhausted, and just won't admit it. If that's the case, I hope he does what's best for himself.
It'd be real sad if JD left, though. Not only would we miss seeing him play, but having someone at the top of the world in a field suddenly retire casts a long shadow on the sport. Suddenly, Bisu, Flash, and Fantasy would be at the top...maybe one of them would end up on top of the pile, but the shadow would always be lurking "Sure, (player) is great, but I'll bet if Jaedong were still here, he could beat him...".
If I were Jaedong's parents I would want him to go to college too. I mean, I let him live his dream of being the best at a video game and now its time to get real. E-sports is not a secure thing at all. Even if E-sports is still around in 10 years is Jaedong still going to be able to be a part of it? For all we know e-sports could crash in a year when SC2 comes out and never come back. There is no long term security in e-sports. The longer he puts off going to university the harder it will be. No one wants to see Jaedong end up in some unskilled labor job in 20 years. And I mean, what if e-sports doesn't crash and jaedong just isn't good at Starcraft 2.
On August 24 2009 17:33 cutebabyelephant wrote: If I were Jaedong's parents I would want him to go to college too. I mean, I let him live his dream of being the best at a video game and now its time to get real. E-sports is not a secure thing at all. Even if E-sports is still around in 10 years is Jaedong still going to be able to be a part of it? For all we know e-sports could crash in a year when SC2 comes out and never come back. There is no long term security in e-sports. The longer he puts off going to university the harder it will be. No one wants to see Jaedong end up in some unskilled labor job in 20 years. And I mean, what if e-sports doesn't crash and jaedong just isn't good at Starcraft 2.
He don't need to play 10 years more, he should be able to save at least 150k$ a year now, and like saved some decent decent money so far couple years of that, and he will not have to work at all if he chooses to, and if in few years his progaming carrier collapse he can study.
You have got to be kidding me. I feel that the parents are not being reasonable but at the same time, JaeDong retiring is just too much. He has stated that he wants to play for Oz and hes happy there. As a parent they should just let him do what he thinks its right. I don't think JaeDong is the one that really said he wants to retire, if so I really question his motivation for the game.
I can't believe some of the things I'm reading in this thread. Statements like "set for life" and "he'll never be #1 in another field". Uhh, guys, as much as we love it, this is just e-sports. We're not talking NBA/NFL/MLB type money here where you are actually set for life.
And as for being #1 ... at the most, players are currently making something like $250K a year. And like LosingID8 said, it's not exactly an easy life - plus you don't get to make this money FOREVER, just as long as you are good. Jaedong is clearly extremely intelligent, disciplined, and hard-working. If he gets a good education in the right area, he can easily make that kind of money EVERY YEAR for the rest of his life.
I would rather develop a skill which will make it possible for me to make $100K a year for the next 25-50 years than one in which I can make $250K for 4 years and then who knows what (if e-sports collapses, what is his fame worth??). As great as it might sound to be a progamer, I don't think it's worth it at all - I know this isn't true for everyone, but as an example, those fortunate enough to be well-educated in the USA can spend half the time progamers spend honing a more generic craft in college these days and expect to make six figures.
Some of my friends are software engineers at companies like Google and make nearly 6 figures right out of college, and will make progressively more each year. Other friends of mine work at hedge funds, make 6 figures right off the bat, and have a decent likelihood of making 7 figures one day. This is just two of many examples, but what's shared is that they work 8-10 hour days (and only FIVE days a week unlike in progaming) doing something they really enjoy and with 1/1000th the pressure of what JD goes through. Even a crappy job like investment banking only involves two years of insane hours, only again it pays off for a long long time. Of course my examples involve a specialized skill set, but I'd be willing to bet almost anything that somebody who's accomplished what Jaedong has is fully capable of developing these skills.
Anyway, my point is that I obviously hope JD keeps playing for a long time, but e-sports needs to step up and figure out how to become a legitimate business. What SC in Korea is right now is nowhere near good enough. I'm not asking for MLB/NBA/NFL style here, but there needs to be something here.
I hope for the sake of e-sports that somebody steps up to the plate and offers JD the $300-500K that he deserves. But it probably won't happen, and you know who else is to blame here? Undoubtedly Kespa, or whoever made up these stupid rules that make it prohibitively expensive to buy another player. If JD actually quits (again I find this to be highly unlikely but still), this is a HUGE blow to the legitimacy of progaming as a career.
On August 24 2009 17:57 darktreb wrote: I would rather develop a skill which will make it possible for me to make $100K a year for the next 25-50 years than one in which I can make $250K for 4 years and then who knows what (if e-sports collapses, what is his fame worth??).
I would rather make 250k$ for 4 years then be a wage slave for 25-50 years. Money are vastly overrated beyond point when you can buy good food internet, and other things that actually gives you something. You will work 25-50 years making good money, and without even time to use things that you had brought.
On August 24 2009 17:57 darktreb wrote: I would rather develop a skill which will make it possible for me to make $100K a year for the next 25-50 years than one in which I can make $250K for 4 years and then who knows what (if e-sports collapses, what is his fame worth??).
I would rather make 250k$ for 4 years then be a wage slave for 25-50 years. Money are vastly overrated beyond point when you can buy good food internet, and other things that actually gives you something. You will work 25-50 years making good money, and without even time to use things that you had brought.
That's great - you're entitled to your opinion. But most people don't have the goal of saving just enough money to get by for the rest of their lives - it's not like Jaedong is planning to NOT work either. He's going to be doing something, so why not start developing skills for it now instead of playing catch up later.
Calling it a "wage slave" is also grossly misleading and borderline stupid. You say it as if it's not possible for people to enjoy their jobs - the only appropriate reference to slaves here is the progamers themselves.
Not to mention $250K over 4 years or $100K over 10 is but a 6 year difference (give or take some other details of course), only in the 250 case if you decide you want more money you might be screwed, whereas in the 100 case you have much more flexibility.
At the Bacchus OSL 2009 Final: "After FA was declared, I avoided speaking to the media because I thought it might put pressure on Jaedong. I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game, so I didn't have any flowers prepared."
Wow, they're probably underestimating their son there. they need to either watch more starcraft, look at some stats or read fanboy articles here at TL
Asians are supposed to be humble and talk about how their son/daughter is useless. You guys don't understand.
On August 24 2009 18:11 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Lol saying your son is useless is pretty mean IMO. Nothing wrong with being humble, but that is too much.
It's just a culture difference - many Asians also see perfectly reasonable statements like "my son is good at [something]" to be incredibly arrogant and disrespectful.
And who knows, they could be telling the truth 100%. After all, they just saw him lose 0-3 in PL finals and 1-3 in his best matchup in MSL. Beating Fantasy eases the pain but doesn't erase those memories.
On August 24 2009 18:09 darktreb wrote:That's great - you're entitled to your opinion. But most people don't have the goal of saving just enough money to get by for the rest of their lives - it's not like Jaedong is planning to NOT work either. He's going to be doing something, so why not start developing skills for it now instead of playing catch up later.
I don't know what JD wants long term, he said that he wanted to stay in programing in his last interview, also it is well possible to study in late 20s, the same can't be said about backing to programing.
Calling it a "wage slave" is also grossly misleading and borderline stupid. You say it as if it's not possible for people to enjoy their jobs - the only appropriate reference to slaves here is the progamers themselves.
You can do things you like without it being your job, actually that makes it much easier to like them and there can alweys be some part that you will likely not like in job. You are slave becouse you loose choice/freedom you must do it, even if your interest will be lost. He likes to be a programer now, and he can quit anytime he want now and in near future, and start diferent carrier or stop working, he would cut his option if he would go to the University now not the other way around.
Somebody may be fine with being a wage slave, there is nothing misleading about it you are slave to having to make your wage.
Not to mention $250K over 4 years or $100K over 10 is but a 6 year difference (give or take some other details of course)
Some details like at least 4 years of studying? You have 4 years vs 14 already.
Wast majority of people don't like they jobs, or at least would rather do something else in that time, and wast majority of people that 100k$+/years work allot. Your post are just examples of wishful thinking that goes against data that we have. If you have something that you really like to do like programing, and there will not be allot of things that you dislike in job that can be true but for wast wast majority of people that is just a wishful thinking that end with disappointment.
I think it's sad JD's parents don't have trust in him. At the ceremony, I would have got him some awesome token of appreciation cause I believe in him. That's the only failing in their part.
Parents don't talk you down just cause you are Asian, whoever said that prolly was joking (else retarded). They are far more "humble" than the Euro/US counter parts, but then again it's the culture, you don't see Phelps' mom screaming out her son's the shit.
Secondly it might be a whole build up media thing about this and get Oz some more publicity after losing their league and now that JD's got the golden mouse they can finally get some cash from their sponsors.
The army's going to take him down anyway unless he gets out of the country and comes back after the enlisting age or whatever, that way he can kick ass in sc2 or who knows even be awesome in some other game while studying at the univ abroad. I'm pretty sure he'll win every tournament abroad with half the practice he puts in now added to an education on the side. (I'm just mulling over this..)
On August 24 2009 18:20 Polis wrote: Somebody may be fine with being a wage slave, there is nothing misleading about it you are slave to having to make your wage.
So basically as long as you have a job, you're a "wage slave"?
I just find it extremely annoying when people look at things like having a regular job to be "enslaving". It's an extremist way to look at it, which makes it misleading, in my opinion. You can quit jobs that aren't progaming too you know.
On August 24 2009 18:20 Polis wrote: Some details like at least 4 years of studying? You have 4 years vs 14 already.
Okok can we stop wasting time on the numerical details? Especially when the numbers $250K and $100K were almost completely arbitrary in the first place. So now we've got even more arbitrary numbers, such as 4 years of progaming (a stretch perhaps), $250K salary, 4 years for school (it often takes more or less depending on what you're doing), and $100K for a random job (the most arbitrary number of all). I mean, if that $100K is actually $80K it's a huge difference, similarly in the other direction, so why are we talking about exact years here?
At the Bacchus OSL 2009 Final: "After FA was declared, I avoided speaking to the media because I thought it might put pressure on Jaedong. I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game, so I didn't have any flowers prepared."
Wow, they're probably underestimating their son there. they need to either watch more starcraft, look at some stats or read fanboy articles here at TL
Asians are supposed to be humble and talk about how their son/daughter is useless. You guys don't understand.
No wtf. They always want to show off that their son/daughter is going to good schools and doing well whenever the hell they could.
I think his parents are bluffing to apply pressure to Oz.
Jaedong stands to make a lot more money right now from progaming than he would most likely make with a computer science degree. Correct me if I'm wrong but even 115,000 dollars is a great salary for most people with a computer science degree. Now is obviously not a good time for retirement in my opinion.
There is no way Jaedong would retire right now. It would almost be like throwing money away.
Perhaps this is one of the best opportunities Jaedong has to retire. He's already won the golden mouse will be known as one of the most important figures in progaming and also has the opportunity to retire now, the perfect time to start college.
His parents are wise for trying to show him that he has this alternative aswell.
On August 24 2009 18:29 darktreb wrote: just find it extremely annoying when people look at things like having a regular job to be "enslaving". It's an extremist way to look at it, which makes it misleading, in my opinion. You can quit jobs that aren't progaming too you know.
Yes but then you have to find a diferent job. You slave to the having to make a wage not to the specific job. I had never said that it is as bad as being a slave to some other person, (and that would also differ significantly depend on that person).
Okok can we stop wasting time on the numerical details? Especially when the numbers $250K and $100K were almost completely arbitrary in the first place. So now we've got even more arbitrary numbers, such as 4 years of progaming (a stretch perhaps), $250K salary, 4 years for school (it often takes more or less depending on what you're doing), and $100K for a random job (the most arbitrary number of all). I mean, if that $100K is actually $80K it's a huge difference, similarly in the other direction, so why are we talking about exact years here?
Well when you estimate it you end up with significant differences, the thing is that he knows on how it is to be a progamer, and he wants to be one now, how is choosing something that he have no idea on how content he would be about (study/job) sensible at all?
He can study in late 20s if he choose so. Leaving his carrier now based on wishful thinking that he find good job that he will enjoy is irrational becouse he does not loose that possibility later in life if he stay in progaming.
I can't believe both his parents thought he wouldn't win, I mean have some faith in your own son. He didn't bring flowers because he thought he wouldn't win? Bring some anyway just incase he does (and he did!).
I can see where they are coming from when they say his schedule allows him to do almost nothing else. No parent ever wants to see their child go through such hardships when they don't need to. But it made JD who he is. I hardly think he will quit, and my heart will break if he decides to retire. But dammit JD if you retire you better have picked a uni in Melbourne, or at least in Australia LOL.
On August 24 2009 17:02 nayumi wrote: There is no way Jaedong is gonna retire lol This is solely a negotiation tactic. 1. Jaedong's parents wanted a better contract. Oz refused. 2. Jaedong's parents declared his son an FA. 3. Deadline is approaching but no team has made any offer. 4. Oz smirks. Jaedong's dad doesn't like it so he plays hardball, hence a lose-lose situation (more like a lose-lose-lose-lose seeing how it affects jaedong, his parents, Oz and us).
If none of the teams makes any better offer, I believe Jaedong's parents will have to announce stuffs like "After blah blah blah ... Jaedong has been trying to convince us blah blah blah ... so we decided to let the boy do what he desires ... blah blah blah".
i'll hold on to this comment. I think what you're saying might come true
Seriously, Jaedong should get himself a professional manager for that kind of suff, not his parents. Too little experience (ok dunno what his parents' jobs are), too biased.
I agree with darktreb's post, but one sentence is extremely important imo
On August 24 2009 17:57 darktreb wrote: If JD actually quits (again I find this to be highly unlikely but still), this is a HUGE blow to the legitimacy of progaming as a career.
On August 24 2009 19:59 spinesheath wrote: Seriously, Jaedong should get himself a professional manager for that kind of suff, not his parents. Too little experience (ok dunno what his parents' jobs are), too biased.
Kespa made a rule so that the players are not allowed to employ agents.
On August 24 2009 17:02 nayumi wrote: There is no way Jaedong is gonna retire lol This is solely a negotiation tactic. 1. Jaedong's parents wanted a better contract. Oz refused. 2. Jaedong's parents declared his son an FA. 3. Deadline is approaching but no team has made any offer. 4. Oz smirks. Jaedong's dad doesn't like it so he plays hardball, hence a lose-lose situation (more like a lose-lose-lose-lose seeing how it affects jaedong, his parents, Oz and us).
If none of the teams makes any better offer, I believe Jaedong's parents will have to announce stuffs like "After blah blah blah ... Jaedong has been trying to convince us blah blah blah ... so we decided to let the boy do what he desires ... blah blah blah".
i'll hold on to this comment. I think what you're saying might come true
This. It's a very asian way of going about things, and in the end it works out - everyone gets to save face, people get more sympathy for progamer rights, and Jaedong gets to stay with Oz.
Personally, I think its quite selfish for all the fans and people to start bashing Jaedong if he decides to retire. I mean being a progamer specially on Oz, the amount of workload and pressure you have to go through is crazy! JD sure can handle it today, but look it it more into the future, a couple of years and the effect of this spartan training will show and it wont be good. Thus, I think that if Jaedong decides to retire then that would be the best for his body/mind , I know he still wants to play but his future is really not going to be that healthy if he stays the same way. His parents probably dont agree with him on being a progamer as you saw from his fathers response specially, they are more old school. So JD, even if you retire, I still think you are the best ever and it will be a good choice to go through as many progamers dont get much education if because of the insane time allocation.
Even if this is just a bunch of talk, it's an incredibly insulting statement. It's insulting to Jaedong, as it assumes that he is not able to make decisions for himself. It's also insulting to every progamer and even the fans out there, all who see progaming as something that is actually important and meaningful.
It's very painful to read this sort of thing - even though we know it's a bluff - for those of us who are not in Korea especially. We know progaming in Korea is far ahead of the rest of the world, and just the fact that something like this would be said feels like a setback to our efforts in our respective countries.
Hey how bout everyone in TL pool in the money and buy jaedong for a month and we win the next OSL/GOM and be famous?
JK
But seriously, i think they are hinting that he should be payed more while Oz quite refuse to.. Oz still stand a chance to compete with other teams even without Jaedong, but they wont get anywhere far up on the list..
He should definitely be payed more for what he does. Does anyone work as hard as him in pro-gaming? From what little I know, I doubt it. In fact all pro-gamers should be payed more, or at least work less. It's pretty sad to hear them work for 18 hours a day sometimes.
If he did go into retirement, it might bring changes to the SC scene. Could mean better conditions for everyone!
On August 24 2009 20:55 faseman wrote: He should definitely be payed more for what he does. Does anyone work as hard as him in pro-gaming? From what little I know, I doubt it. In fact all pro-gamers should be payed more, or at least work less. It's pretty sad to hear them work for 18 hours a day sometimes.
If he did go into retirement, it might bring changes to the SC scene. Could mean better conditions for everyone!
Boxer and Yellow play the same amount, at least Boxer did, and I've heard Yellow does it right now
On August 24 2009 18:40 Polis wrote: He can study in late 20s if he choose so. Leaving his carrier now based on wishful thinking that he find good job that he will enjoy is irrational becouse he does not loose that possibility later in life if he stay in progaming.
There's a lot more to growing up than just studying, and going to college when you're 30 does not offer the same experience.
I'm with Day[9] and others who are alright with it. I think most of the people in this thread are being a lot more selfish than his parents.
correct me if im wrong, but it sounds like the "free" agency has jaedong trapped to his contract because no team is willing to buy out his contract, despite the fact that he has completed it, so jaedong and his parents are trying to play hard ball to get a better contract deal done.
that would be the most awesome legacy to leave with. All the other amazing players dominate and decline into a shadow of their former selves. It would be nice to see a player walk away at the top of the game, if we look at oov, savior, nada, and boxer they obviously aren't the same players they once were. no 3 OSL then slump or anything, he just retires.
Although I would undoubtedly miss the most talented Zerg of all time.
Retirement is an option, as Jaedong is only 19 and there's enough time for him to study some serious skills which may enable him to work and live like a normal person for the rest of his life. Esport is really not a serious business when you grow old.
And he's proven himself a truly GREAT starcraft player (at least to me) and have played many wonderful games/series. I won't be sad if he actually retires.
Hi I've been reading this site for about a year now and I finally decided to register. I've just been on fomos and I'll try too summarize the situation.
1. In Korea you have to be 20 years old to sign a contract without your parents consent. Jaedong is still only 19. It's why his parents are negotiating his contract. 2. The rumor on fomos is that his parents wanted 200 million won guaranteed and his schedule cut back. Oz consented on the latter point but was only willing to guarantee 140 million won with incentives up to 60 million won.
On free agency 1. Its not like American sports where the player gets to choose whatever team he wants to go to. Players are posted on a certain date and can only negociate with the team that posts the highest OVERALL offer. Teams are allowed to offer up to 3 years. ex) Player X has opted to become a free agent. Team A offers 50 mil for 1 year, Team B offers 40 mil for 2 years, Team C offers 30 mil for 3 years. Because Team C has offered a total package of 90 million won, Player X may only negociate with Team C and his original team. It's rumored that after learning of this rule many players decided not to opt for free agency. 2. If a team loses a player it must be compensated in one of two ways. 200% of the player's 1st year salary or 100% of the player's salary and a player on the buying team. The buying team may protect up to 6 players. ex) Jaedong's yearly salary is expected to be around 200 million won. Any team interested in buying Jaedong would also have to pay OZ twice that.
Final opinions I doubt that Jaedong is going to be hurt by free agency. With SK T1's gaping hole in their zerg lineup I think that Jaedong's parents are betting that T1 comes up with a huge offer and wanted to see what his market value was before signing with anybody.
You know what, I believe JD wanted to play. Look at his determination. Look at how he practices, for god's sake, he's SO competitive. Like he said, he wants to beat records. There's still the platinum mouse or even the DIAMOND MOUSE.
On August 24 2009 21:35 sehole wrote: Hi I've been reading this site for about a year now and I finally decided to register. I've just been on fomos and I'll try too summarize the situation.
1. In Korea you have to be 20 years old to sign a contract without your parents consent. Jaedong is still only 19. It's why his parents are negotiating his contract. 2. The rumor on fomos is that his parents wanted 200 million won guaranteed and his schedule cut back. Oz consented on the latter point but was only willing to guarantee 140 million won with incentives up to 60 million won.
On free agency 1. Its not like American sports where the player gets to choose whatever team he wants to go to. Players are posted on a certain date and can only negociate with the team that posts the highest OVERALL offer. Teams are allowed to offer up to 3 years. ex) Player X has opted to become a free agent. Team A offers 50 mil for 1 year, Team B offers 40 mil for 2 years, Team C offers 30 mil for 3 years. Because Team C has offered a total package of 90 million won, Player X may only negociate with Team C and his original team. It's rumored that after learning of this rule many players decided not to opt for free agency. 2. If a team loses a player it must be compensated in one of two ways. 200% of the player's 1st year salary or 100% of the player's salary and a player on the buying team. The buying team may protect up to 6 players. ex) Jaedong's yearly salary is expected to be around 200 million won. Any team interested in buying Jaedong would also have to pay OZ twice that.
Final opinions I doubt that Jaedong is going to be hurt by free agency. With SK T1's gaping hole in their zerg lineup I think that Jaedong's parents are betting that T1 comes up with a huge offer and wanted to see what his market value was before signing with anybody.
If Jaedong doesn't come to an agreement with any team (however likely or unlikely that is), I wonder whether he would be allowed to compete as a free-lance in the big tournaments (OSL, MSL, GOM). That would be a interesting prospect.
ohh now it's retirement? what the hell is this soap-opera, aren't we supposed to get some facts by the 26th anyways? he ain't retiring that's for sure.
On August 24 2009 21:35 sehole wrote: Hi I've been reading this site for about a year now and I finally decided to register. I've just been on fomos and I'll try too summarize the situation.
1. In Korea you have to be 20 years old to sign a contract without your parents consent. Jaedong is still only 19. It's why his parents are negotiating his contract. 2. The rumor on fomos is that his parents wanted 200 million won guaranteed and his schedule cut back. Oz consented on the latter point but was only willing to guarantee 140 million won with incentives up to 60 million won.
On free agency 1. Its not like American sports where the player gets to choose whatever team he wants to go to. Players are posted on a certain date and can only negociate with the team that posts the highest OVERALL offer. Teams are allowed to offer up to 3 years. ex) Player X has opted to become a free agent. Team A offers 50 mil for 1 year, Team B offers 40 mil for 2 years, Team C offers 30 mil for 3 years. Because Team C has offered a total package of 90 million won, Player X may only negociate with Team C and his original team. It's rumored that after learning of this rule many players decided not to opt for free agency. 2. If a team loses a player it must be compensated in one of two ways. 200% of the player's 1st year salary or 100% of the player's salary and a player on the buying team. The buying team may protect up to 6 players. ex) Jaedong's yearly salary is expected to be around 200 million won. Any team interested in buying Jaedong would also have to pay OZ twice that.
Final opinions I doubt that Jaedong is going to be hurt by free agency. With SK T1's gaping hole in their zerg lineup I think that Jaedong's parents are betting that T1 comes up with a huge offer and wanted to see what his market value was before signing with anybody.
so getting jd on your team would cost you 600m won or 400m won and a player. who would t1 protect? bisu, fantasy, canata, best, boxer, and doctor.k as the teamleader? so oz would get iloveoov? forget it;-) 600m won are fucking 330k euros, a third of a million...
On August 24 2009 21:35 sehole wrote: Hi I've been reading this site for about a year now and I finally decided to register. I've just been on fomos and I'll try too summarize the situation.
1. In Korea you have to be 20 years old to sign a contract without your parents consent. Jaedong is still only 19. It's why his parents are negotiating his contract. 2. The rumor on fomos is that his parents wanted 200 million won guaranteed and his schedule cut back. Oz consented on the latter point but was only willing to guarantee 140 million won with incentives up to 60 million won.
On free agency 1. Its not like American sports where the player gets to choose whatever team he wants to go to. Players are posted on a certain date and can only negociate with the team that posts the highest OVERALL offer. Teams are allowed to offer up to 3 years. ex) Player X has opted to become a free agent. Team A offers 50 mil for 1 year, Team B offers 40 mil for 2 years, Team C offers 30 mil for 3 years. Because Team C has offered a total package of 90 million won, Player X may only negociate with Team C and his original team. It's rumored that after learning of this rule many players decided not to opt for free agency. 2. If a team loses a player it must be compensated in one of two ways. 200% of the player's 1st year salary or 100% of the player's salary and a player on the buying team. The buying team may protect up to 6 players. ex) Jaedong's yearly salary is expected to be around 200 million won. Any team interested in buying Jaedong would also have to pay OZ twice that.
Final opinions I doubt that Jaedong is going to be hurt by free agency. With SK T1's gaping hole in their zerg lineup I think that Jaedong's parents are betting that T1 comes up with a huge offer and wanted to see what his market value was before signing with anybody.
so getting jd on your team would cost you 600m won or 400m won and a player. who would t1 protect? bisu, fantasy, canata, best, boxer, and doctor.k as the teamleader? so oz would get iloveoov? forget it;-) 600m won are fucking 330k euros, a third of a million...
I thought it was based on CURRENT salary? cause if thats the case its only like 70 million right?
On August 24 2009 20:24 DragoonPK wrote: Personally, I think its quite selfish for all the fans and people to start bashing Jaedong if he decides to retire. I mean being a progamer specially on Oz, the amount of workload and pressure you have to go through is crazy! JD sure can handle it today, but look it it more into the future, a couple of years and the effect of this spartan training will show and it wont be good. Thus, I think that if Jaedong decides to retire then that would be the best for his body/mind , I know he still wants to play but his future is really not going to be that healthy if he stays the same way. His parents probably dont agree with him on being a progamer as you saw from his fathers response specially, they are more old school. So JD, even if you retire, I still think you are the best ever and it will be a good choice to go through as many progamers dont get much education if because of the insane time allocation.
Ah but isn't the rub of this is that it's not really JD's decision at all? Who's to say if parents are taking his desires into account? (Not to conflate desires with best interests, though).
As a fan of Jaedong the person and an anti-fan of the way his gaming affects my favorite players, this looks like a win-win. :p
In all seriousness though, this wouldn't be a bad move. Get a degree, get some room to breathe...*maybe* come back for SC2 or if not then leave behind a powerful legacy. He's got to be looking towards the future here. I can guarentee more than half of his life will be entirely based on what he's doing after he's done pro gaming.
I just hope he and his parents can reconcile without pain or conflict.
On August 24 2009 15:54 Day[9] wrote: good for the parents!!
as far as i'm concerned, much of the progaming scene is one giant human rights violation. players and parents NEED to start pushing for better playing conditions and players' rights!
I've had the same reaction many times. Some of these players are in high school, working 15h days. On top of it all, the rules are rigged so teams don't have to pay top dollar for them. The offer Oz is trying to get away with for the best player in the world is just pathetic.
On August 24 2009 21:32 Shikyo wrote: He could just go to college after he actually retires(later). He won't ever be making this much money working a normal job.
The sad thing is, many "regular" jobs, if you have a college degree, would pay him $100k/year if he worked 14h/day. In the US anyway. Heck, 14h is almost enough to work 2 jobs.
Gaming is not that great of a path financially: he is foregoing future income thanks to a delayed/no university degree and no workplace experience, etc. Obviously, he LIKES starcraft, but this is a different matter.
I can understand his parent's concern about the money. I believe JD should be payed atleast 200k USD. 140m is a joke, considering how much Calm is gonna make now. But e-sports without Jaedong is gonna be pretty hard to get over for many. He is imo undisputably the best player of all time. Now that I think of it, those media reports did make his parents look like evil people D:
However, I believe the blame should first of all go to KeSPA for making such moronic rules. Second to who ever deals with player's salaries. Hwaseung sells brand name clothes, and big clothing companies always have tons of cash.
i think it would be cool if he did that. To retire when ure on peak of your popularity? hed always be a legend. Plus he might actually enjoy real life just as much since he looks better then your average progamer
On August 24 2009 23:42 Sharp-eYe wrote: I can understand his parent's concern about the money. I believe JD should be payed atleast 200k USD. 140m is a joke, considering how much Calm is gonna make now. But e-sports without Jaedong is gonna be pretty hard to get over for many. He is imo undisputably the best player of all time. Now that I think of it, those media reports did make his parents look like evil people D:
However, I believe the blame should first of all go to KeSPA for making such moronic rules. Second to who ever deals with player's salaries. Hwaseung sells brand name clothes, and big clothing companies always have tons of cash.
All this is rather disheartening.
Pro gamers play the bulk of their games in a shopping mall, the only money sponsors get out of having pro-gaming teams is advertising cachet, and that caps out after so long. It's not like Jaedong is selling tickets and luxury boxes and apparel like normal athletes, so there's probably a pretty hard limit on the amount of money that sponsors are willing to spend on a team.
On August 24 2009 15:52 Waxangel wrote: "I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game..."
WTF JD's dad?!?!?! Your son is arguably the best player in the world right now, and you thoght he would only win one game?!?!?!
Gtfo
dude its cuz its osl. its between 2 of teh best players. JD has been sucking in ZVZ lately, and he said in the pre interview that he didnt have time to practice that much. Makes sense.
On August 24 2009 15:52 Waxangel wrote: "I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game..."
WTF JD's dad?!?!?! Your son is arguably the best player in the world right now, and you thoght he would only win one game?!?!?!
Gtfo
dude its cuz its osl. its between 2 of teh best players. JD has been sucking in ZVZ lately, and he said in the pre interview that he didnt have time to practice that much. Makes sense.
He's a 77% winrate player in the matchup. Yarnc cleary isn't even close to the 2nd best player right now, and ZvZ isn't exactly his strength.
If Esports keep evolving like it has the last years, Jaedong's future will be secured no matter what. I'd say he's one of the biggest gamers of all time. If anything, his dad should look for ways to put Jaedong on the international market. PR trip around the world?
Progaming can't still be fun for him. All the glamour must go after a few years of 14 hour days 7 days a week. He doesn't still need the money and he's young enough to get into something which isn't a dead end for him in 5 years time. Kid should go get some academic skills. If I were his father I'd be proud of him but I wouldn't want him finding himself getting washed up with no marketable skills.
JD can't retire! If he does, no one will stop fantasy from claiming a gold in the OSL!! And i started to dislike that kid after choking hard on the semis. But seriously, JD's retirement would probably be the start of a Flash/Bisu era. Provided that Bisu doesn't lose in the group stages. LOL But still, JD could be a Korean icon. LOL
On August 24 2009 23:42 Sharp-eYe wrote: I can understand his parent's concern about the money. I believe JD should be payed atleast 200k USD. 140m is a joke, considering how much Calm is gonna make now. But e-sports without Jaedong is gonna be pretty hard to get over for many. He is imo undisputably the best player of all time. Now that I think of it, those media reports did make his parents look like evil people D:
However, I believe the blame should first of all go to KeSPA for making such moronic rules. Second to who ever deals with player's salaries. Hwaseung sells brand name clothes, and big clothing companies always have tons of cash.
All this is rather disheartening.
Pro gamers play the bulk of their games in a shopping mall, the only money sponsors get out of having pro-gaming teams is advertising cachet, and that caps out after so long. It's not like Jaedong is selling tickets and luxury boxes and apparel like normal athletes, so there's probably a pretty hard limit on the amount of money that sponsors are willing to spend on a team.
Jaedong -> better team + more fans -> better viewership in PL + more appearance in SL -> more exposure for the team.
IMO, sponsors aren't willing to spend money because they don't HAVE to spend money. SC players have no union. They have no agents. Jaedong has to rely on his parents, who likely doesn't even have negotiation or business skills, negotiating his contract. He is going to be underpaid relative to regular professional sports players.
On August 24 2009 23:41 citi.zen wrote: The sad thing is, many "regular" jobs, if you have a college degree, would pay him $100k/year if he worked 14h/day. In the US anyway. Heck, 14h is almost enough to work 2 jobs.
Gaming is not that great of a path financially: he is foregoing future income thanks to a delayed/no university degree and no workplace experience, etc. Obviously, he LIKES starcraft, but this is a different matter.
First of all, he's not actually playing 14 hours a day. Maybe at times, but definitely not consistently. A human body cannot withstand such pressure. Also, $100k/year is not chump change, especially since Jaedong wants to go into the computing field(I have 3 relatives working in computing and you don't make THAT much unless you have other skills too).
In addition, the average Korean work week is 53 hours, whereas it's 40 hours for the US and 30-35 for many European countries. So even a normal job is pretty crappy in terms of work hours by western standard.
It would pain me more to see him slump like Savior than to see him retire and go on to better things.
Some progamers that stay in starcraft too long burn out their lives. They come to a point where they can't branch out into other industries because they've played a game for way too long.
That said, there's no way he can retire now. 1-2 more years.
On August 25 2009 01:34 Tien wrote: Jaedong retiring would be like Seinfeld retiring.
It would pain me more to see him slump like Savior than to see him retire and go on to better things.
Some progamers that stay in starcraft too long burn out their lives. They come to a point where they can't branch out into other industries because they've played a game for way too long.
That said, there's no way he can retire now. 1-2 more years.
He could always claim to retire when he's on top, say he's going to leave when he's in his prime, come back again, retire again, say he's not going to come back ever to the scene again, and then come back again...
On August 24 2009 16:15 riptide wrote: Yeah, I really don't see him reaching as high up in any other field as he has done in SC. It's not that he's not talented, but to get to #1 in any field is an uphill task, and it doesn't make much sense to withdraw when he is clearly at the peak of his game.
Still, worrying about kids' futures is what parents do, and I understand why they'd want him to qualify. He's doing great now, but history tells us that progamers do fall, and that when they do, they just go completely off the radar. What they say about free time is true as well. He's 19 - he should be out with his friends, not single handedly carrying a pro team by practising 12 hours a day.
In the end it's all about opportunity cost, I guess. I hope he gets to do what he wants though, because that's the most important thing.
Edit: I'm not ruling out that this may be a negotiation tactic at all, just thought I'd take their statement at face value, since it's good to look at it from that perspective as well.
Agree with you The parents are right to care for his son life. If the guy woke up and play SC until sleep everyday theres something very wrong in there. Even if SC lose one of the best players, his life must come first, and his fathers have an important role there. Im happy to see they are fighting for better play conditions for JD.
They have no agents. Jaedong has to rely on his parents, who likely doesn't even have negotiation or business skills, negotiating his contract. He is going to be underpaid relative to regular professional sports players.
I would argue that JD's parents have done a remarkably good job of exploiting the KeSPA rules to act as an agent on their sons behalf. Their tactics resemble many American agents like Scott Boras'... really what seems to be holding them back is that they can't maintain public solidarity with their son on what is required for him to sign. When Boras was threatening to have Strasburg play in foreign/independent leagues when the Nationals wouldn't sign him to what he thought was an appropriate contract in Major League Baseball, he made sure Strasburg was not making public comments contradictory to his position. If JD's parents made sure that JD did not publicly and privately make comments about how he wished to stay with Oz and that he was trying to negotiate with his parents they would be in a much better position to force a higher salary.
On August 24 2009 15:56 Red_Storm wrote: Jaedong: Coming to a university near you.
Hopefully to mine. ^^
But yea, I expected his parents to be quite parenty about this. It's great if your son is making more a year than his dad (presumably), but to see their son exhausted like this... I can fully understand their reaction.
I do wonder why no team has approached them yet. Too high a price for a solo player?
On August 24 2009 16:15 riptide wrote: Yeah, I really don't see him reaching as high up in any other field as he has done in SC. It's not that he's not talented, but to get to #1 in any field is an uphill task, and it doesn't make much sense to withdraw when he is clearly at the peak of his game.
Still, worrying about kids' futures is what parents do, and I understand why they'd want him to qualify. He's doing great now, but history tells us that progamers do fall, and that when they do, they just go completely off the radar. What they say about free time is true as well. He's 19 - he should be out with his friends, not single handedly carrying a pro team by practising 12 hours a day.
In the end it's all about opportunity cost, I guess. I hope he gets to do what he wants though, because that's the most important thing.
Edit: I'm not ruling out that this may be a negotiation tactic at all, just thought I'd take their statement at face value, since it's good to look at it from that perspective as well.
Agree with you The parents are right to care for his son life. If the guy woke up and play SC until sleep everyday theres something very wrong in there. Even if SC lose one of the best players, his life must come first, and his fathers have an important role there. Im happy to see they are fighting for better play conditions for JD.
I really wonder why no teams have been in touch yet. What is KT doing to do with their money that's better than buying JD? They only have Flash to worry about and with their money they should easily be able to buy JD even if they have to lower some of their players salaries.
I'm a long time lurker, first time poster as well. I'm Asian so I understand how important education is to the culture. Going to university late is not really an option. There's a stigma attached to people who aren't graduating at roughly the same time as their peers of the same age. If he goes to university late, it's harder for him to find a good job later on with that stigma attached to him, even being a famous SC player.
Progamers also have a shelf life lower than an NFL running back. Most, even the very best, flame out around the age of 25. The 140M Won offer is only equal to roughly US$113,000. Where I work isn't exactly the best paying, but even a level 3 engineer here can make that much. There's 6 levels to it and he could easily go higher eventually with his work ethic. Even the lowest ranking engineering manager can make up to $160,000 a year. And that's not working 14 hours a day.
Good for the parents. No parent wants to see their child slaving away at a computer screen, no matter how good the pay is. You are only young once and a lot of these kids are missing out on their childhood completely.
On August 25 2009 00:41 Kwark wrote: Progaming can't still be fun for him. All the glamour must go after a few years of 14 hour days 7 days a week. He doesn't still need the money and he's young enough to get into something which isn't a dead end for him in 5 years time. Kid should go get some academic skills. If I were his father I'd be proud of him but I wouldn't want him finding himself getting washed up with no marketable skills.
According to him he still loves it at Oz. If he says he enjoys it why assume he is lying?
If he didnt want to do it anymore he wouldn't. He's not forced to play, nor play at the level he does. He's the best player in the world for a reason. He still has passion for the game. Until he loses that passion he should keep gaming until he no longer wants to do so. Simple as that. You act as if there is only a certain length of time to get academic skills. This isn't the 1940s. He's still extremely young. No reason to rush.
I like how Jaedong's father is giving the whole E-Sports systems/Kespa a big "FUCK YOU" when his son is clearly not being treated fairly in terms of salary and work load.
They have no agents. Jaedong has to rely on his parents, who likely doesn't even have negotiation or business skills, negotiating his contract. He is going to be underpaid relative to regular professional sports players.
I would argue that JD's parents have done a remarkably good job of exploiting the KeSPA rules to act as an agent on their sons behalf. Their tactics resemble many American agents like Scott Boras'... really what seems to be holding them back is that they can't maintain public solidarity with their son on what is required for him to sign. When Boras was threatening to have Strasburg play in foreign/independent leagues when the Nationals wouldn't sign him to what he thought was an appropriate contract in Major League Baseball, he made sure Strasburg was not making public comments contradictory to his position. If JD's parents made sure that JD did not publicly and privately make comments about how he wished to stay with Oz and that he was trying to negotiate with his parents they would be in a much better position to force a higher salary.
I agree with the Scott Boras comparison. It does seem like they're using a lot of similar tactics to American sports agents (or at least the more famous ones like Boras or Drew Rosenhaus), even though they have significantly less leverage than an agent does. Under the rules that KESPA has created, it'd be hard to see even Boras getting Jaedong a fair contract. It'd probably be better if Jaedong didn't give the public interviews talking about his free agency, as it can only hurt his position.
The biggest problem is that they're not professional agents and don't have the same connections with all of the teams. Not to mention, it's not their fulltime job to understand and exploit the rules set forth by kespa. I'm a huge Jaedong fan, and I can only hope he manages to get a good contract somewhere.
They have no agents. Jaedong has to rely on his parents, who likely doesn't even have negotiation or business skills, negotiating his contract. He is going to be underpaid relative to regular professional sports players.
I would argue that JD's parents have done a remarkably good job of exploiting the KeSPA rules to act as an agent on their sons behalf. Their tactics resemble many American agents like Scott Boras'... really what seems to be holding them back is that they can't maintain public solidarity with their son on what is required for him to sign. When Boras was threatening to have Strasburg play in foreign/independent leagues when the Nationals wouldn't sign him to what he thought was an appropriate contract in Major League Baseball, he made sure Strasburg was not making public comments contradictory to his position. If JD's parents made sure that JD did not publicly and privately make comments about how he wished to stay with Oz and that he was trying to negotiate with his parents they would be in a much better position to force a higher salary.
Umm... just because they emulate famous agents' public mannerism doesn't make them good agents. And there's no comparison between the leverage a baseball player has vs a SC player.
On August 24 2009 15:56 Red_Storm wrote: Jaedong: Coming to a university near you.
Hopefully to mine. ^^
But yea, I expected his parents to be quite parenty about this. It's great if your son is making more a year than his dad (presumably), but to see their son exhausted like this... I can fully understand their reaction.
I do wonder why no team has approached them yet. Too high a price for a solo player?
JD won't find out if any teams have made offers until the 26th. I guarantee you that quite a few teams have made an offer.
On August 24 2009 16:15 riptide wrote: Yeah, I really don't see him reaching as high up in any other field as he has done in SC. It's not that he's not talented, but to get to #1 in any field is an uphill task, and it doesn't make much sense to withdraw when he is clearly at the peak of his game.
Still, worrying about kids' futures is what parents do, and I understand why they'd want him to qualify. He's doing great now, but history tells us that progamers do fall, and that when they do, they just go completely off the radar. What they say about free time is true as well. He's 19 - he should be out with his friends, not single handedly carrying a pro team by practising 12 hours a day.
In the end it's all about opportunity cost, I guess. I hope he gets to do what he wants though, because that's the most important thing.
Edit: I'm not ruling out that this may be a negotiation tactic at all, just thought I'd take their statement at face value, since it's good to look at it from that perspective as well.
Agree with you The parents are right to care for his son life. If the guy woke up and play SC until sleep everyday theres something very wrong in there. Even if SC lose one of the best players, his life must come first, and his fathers have an important role there. Im happy to see they are fighting for better play conditions for JD.
I'm sorry but i couldn't resist ...
Not really error. Obviously Overmind and his father.
I only hope someone picks him up now. Else Oz will smirk to JD's parents and then make him work twice as hard as he is now and then kill the kid finally. OR
So much practice motivation is what got him the golden mouse and it would now help him get the one thing NO other player would ever receive - The platinum mouse.
I think they should offer more salary or more benefits, like tying up with Nike or something, I'm sure 100's of fans would want JD's sneakers or jacket or hood or insert-what-ever-merchandise you think of. He could be the Micheal Jordan of Starcraft (seeing as he is becoming the Tiger woods of SC after all !)
On August 24 2009 15:52 Waxangel wrote:At the Bacchus OSL 2009 Final: "After FA was declared, I avoided speaking to the media because I thought it might put pressure on Jaedong. I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game, so I didn't have any flowers prepared."
So this is saying he had no faith in his son winning the OSL or even one game? Is he crazy? After reading that (assuming it was translated and I interpreted it correctly) it just seems like his parents are fucking crazy wackos.
On August 24 2009 15:52 Waxangel wrote:At the Bacchus OSL 2009 Final: "After FA was declared, I avoided speaking to the media because I thought it might put pressure on Jaedong. I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game, so I didn't have any flowers prepared."
So this is saying he had no faith in his son winning the OSL or even one game? Is he crazy? After reading that (assuming it was translated and I interpreted it correctly) it just seems like his parents are fucking crazy wackos.
Yeah... it gives the impression that he doesn't really understand just how much of a genius Jaedong is. Probably that's why he's saying retirement is an option.
On August 24 2009 15:54 Day[9] wrote: good for the parents!!
as far as i'm concerned, much of the progaming scene is one giant human rights violation. players and parents NEED to start pushing for better playing conditions and players' rights!
!!
Man, I hope you're not serious about this. These guys look like they're having the time of their lives in a truly unique experience where they're celebrated by thousands.
Sure, they have to practice, but they obviously really want these careers.
No surprises. Like I've said multiple times, ever since the JD vs Kal game in MSL almost 2 months ago, I've had the same feeling time and time again that JD is about to pass out at any time during his games. Seriously, this guy *REALLY* needs a break. He's *NOT* having the time of his life as you guys are thinking. He complained about his workload in many interviews already and now his parents are concerned, which is legitimate.
One could guess that lately JD's life been pretty much only playing BW and sleeping, shortly stopping for eating and bathroom, and nothing else. And that's just cruel, no matter how much you love this game.
On August 24 2009 15:54 Day[9] wrote: good for the parents!!
as far as i'm concerned, much of the progaming scene is one giant human rights violation. players and parents NEED to start pushing for better playing conditions and players' rights!
!!
Man, I hope you're not serious about this. These guys look like they're having the time of their lives in a truly unique experience where they're celebrated by thousands.
Sure, they have to practice, but they obviously really want these careers.
being celebrated by thousands doesnt always seem to have a positive effect really. just look at how many celebrities have suched messed up lives. the pressure is intense for them to always be better and being in the public eye only amplifies it
Does anybody think that the ridiculous amount of pressure on Jaedong could be alleviated if instead of another team acquiring JD, Oz acquiring another top-10 player?
If Oz can't afford to give Jaedong a meaningfully competitive raise, they can't afford a top 10 player from another team (all of which have been signed anyhow).
if he goes to a university he will never make the ammount of money he can right now opposed to in the future. This is his parents wishes and not his. Keep in mind. His parents cant control shit when he turns 20.
On August 24 2009 15:54 Day[9] wrote: good for the parents!!
as far as i'm concerned, much of the progaming scene is one giant human rights violation. players and parents NEED to start pushing for better playing conditions and players' rights!
!!
Man, I hope you're not serious about this. These guys look like they're having the time of their lives in a truly unique experience where they're celebrated by thousands.
Sure, they have to practice, but they obviously really want these careers.
You mean how the top progamers (especially on shitty teams..JD for Oz and Flash for KT) always look like they're dead tired?
On August 24 2009 15:54 Day[9] wrote: good for the parents!!
as far as i'm concerned, much of the progaming scene is one giant human rights violation. players and parents NEED to start pushing for better playing conditions and players' rights!
!!
Man, I hope you're not serious about this. These guys look like they're having the time of their lives in a truly unique experience where they're celebrated by thousands.
Sure, they have to practice, but they obviously really want these careers.
The kids probably want to play SC for a living, but that doesn't mean that their conditions can't get better. I think it's pretty obvious that the way things are now are pretty unfair to the players (just read this thread). I bet Jaedong's parents are only thinking about their own son, but as it is they seem to be the people best fit to lead the fight for players' rights. I doubt anything will actually happen, but some change could sure make the starcraft scene healthier.
On August 25 2009 05:35 Juicyfruit wrote: Jaedong is no ordinary person in any case. I have no doubt he has both the intelligence and perseverance to be successful in a lot of careers.
Not to mention he works way more than the standard 8-hour shift right now.
Anyone can go to school and work in a career. 100k salarys aren't just ok SChool-College-100k salary. And hes not too young to make his own decisions. Parents shouldn't be making life choices for a 19 year old. This whole situation is absolutely fucking retarded. And i feel bad for jaedong is put into this situation. Being in this stress only hurts his training even more. Jaedong should do what he wants and what he loves. He shouldn't go to college and skip pro-gaming just cause you or his parents think in the longrun its the better choice. You shouldn't even be talking about what jaedong should do Cause as far as im concerned hes far more accomplished then anyone on TL.
Fame brings money. Even if he retired now, as long as he doesn't leave Korea (which is retarded) he can make a tonne of money just signing things, putting his name on stuff, whatever.
I mean, I guess education wise, if he goes to America at least he won't be harassed and he can concentrate, but it seems like such a waste of an opportunity. I wouldn't even call it selling out, since pretty much from the beginning progaming has been entirely about selling out.
On August 25 2009 05:35 Juicyfruit wrote: Jaedong is no ordinary person in any case. I have no doubt he has both the intelligence and perseverance to be successful in a lot of careers.
Not to mention he works way more than the standard 8-hour shift right now.
Anyone can go to school and work in a career. 100k salarys aren't just ok SChool-College-100k salary. And hes not too young to make his own decisions. Parents shouldn't be making life choices for a 19 year old. This whole situation is absolutely fucking retarded. And i feel bad for jaedong is put into this situation. Being in this stress only hurts his training even more. Jaedong should do what he wants and what he loves. He shouldn't go to college and skip pro-gaming just cause you or his parents think in the longrun its the better choice. You shouldn't even be talking about what jaedong should do Cause as far as im concerned hes far more accomplished then anyone on TL.
Who are you to say his mom and dad are being bad parents?
On August 25 2009 05:35 Juicyfruit wrote: Jaedong is no ordinary person in any case. I have no doubt he has both the intelligence and perseverance to be successful in a lot of careers.
Not to mention he works way more than the standard 8-hour shift right now.
Anyone can go to school and work in a career. 100k salarys aren't just ok SChool-College-100k salary.
He said he would be interested in computer science, so yes, its not an automatic college-100k. Still, within 5 years of graduating 100k is very feasible. (In the US... I know nothing about Korean wages for engineers.) The point is: this does not seem like the MUST TAKE, MOST MONEY YOU WILL EVER MAKE opportunity. A smart and hardworking person can reach that level of pay taking many "regular" paths. Financially speaking, of course there are other benefits, as long as he enjoys them.
You shouldn't even be talking about what jaedong should do Cause as far as im concerned hes far more accomplished then anyone on TL.
In the SC world he sure has. As far as salary, personal life, girlfriends, etc. etc., ... guarantee you he did not. This is what is eating at his parents... and why they feel the things he is giving up must be compensated for.
On August 25 2009 05:40 Chef wrote: Fame brings money. Even if he retired now, as long as he doesn't leave Korea (which is retarded) he can make a tonne of money just signing things, putting his name on stuff, whatever.
I mean, I guess education wise, if he goes to America at least he won't be harassed and he can concentrate, but it seems like such a waste of an opportunity. I wouldn't even call it selling out, since pretty much from the beginning progaming has been entirely about selling out.
That's what you thought. What if he runs into a TLer and proceeds to touch him all over?
On August 25 2009 06:33 o[twist] wrote: haha everyone hoping he comes to college with them
seriously, he could allkill most csl teams SIMULTANEOUSLY in a 1v4
i really think that financially going to college would be the better option in the long run. a guy with his passion and work ethics can easily get a job that pays 100k a year, lets say 5-7 years after graduating. but he can perform this job for several decades then, whereas his career as an active top-progamer wont last for much more than 4-6 years from now on. and as people mentioned earlier, if he doesnt join college in time chances are high he wont get a good paying job. guys who graduate at the age of almost 30 virtually never get those 100k-jobs...
on the other hand payment as a progamer always comes lagged to success. he now is at the peak of his performance and success, which means that the next few years would be his biggest years income-wise. (as a progamer...) if he retired now, he would throw away much of the to-be-expected payment that he built up during the past years. but then again, if he doesnt find another team or a way to force hwaseung to pay him more than those disgraceful 140k, he will miss this payday even if he stays a progamer. its a tough decision, but i personally think financially it would be the better choice to retire and go to college if and only if he indeed doesnt find a better paying contract than the 140k oz offered him.
oh man, these kespa rules are so goddamn retarded and rigged. if i were jaedong id be soooo fucking pissed XD"
On August 24 2009 15:52 Waxangel wrote:At the Bacchus OSL 2009 Final: "After FA was declared, I avoided speaking to the media because I thought it might put pressure on Jaedong. I didn't expect a victory today, I was actually just hoping that he win even one game, so I didn't have any flowers prepared."
So this is saying he had no faith in his son winning the OSL or even one game? Is he crazy? After reading that (assuming it was translated and I interpreted it correctly) it just seems like his parents are fucking crazy wackos.
That quote could be interpreted a number of ways (e.g. he didn't expect a victory in the sense he didn't want to build up unnecessary pressure for Jaedong (which the quote heavily implies).
On August 25 2009 05:42 motbob wrote: Who are you to say his mom and dad are being bad parents?
^Agree.
Seriously, what's with people calling Jaedong's parent's douchebags and whatnot. We all know that Jaedong is being grossly underpaid by Hwaseung, so how is it wrong that his parents want to negotiate a higher salary for him? For all the "my parents suck" blogs I've seen here and there on this site, people really don't seem to respect parents that are going out of their way to try and get their son better playing conditions and the money he deserves for his level of play.
As much as Jaedong's parents support him and his love for Starcraft, I'm sure they can't bear to watch himself kill himself with the obscene practice load, which is higher than most players of his caliber.
On August 25 2009 05:35 Juicyfruit wrote: Jaedong is no ordinary person in any case. I have no doubt he has both the intelligence and perseverance to be successful in a lot of careers.
Not to mention he works way more than the standard 8-hour shift right now.
Anyone can go to school and work in a career. 100k salarys aren't just ok SChool-College-100k salary. And hes not too young to make his own decisions. Parents shouldn't be making life choices for a 19 year old. This whole situation is absolutely fucking retarded. And i feel bad for jaedong is put into this situation. Being in this stress only hurts his training even more. Jaedong should do what he wants and what he loves. He shouldn't go to college and skip pro-gaming just cause you or his parents think in the longrun its the better choice. You shouldn't even be talking about what jaedong should do Cause as far as im concerned hes far more accomplished then anyone on TL.
That's just wrong. I think too many people here are making erroneous judgments based on Western culture. Asians prize education more than Westerners do.
You must live in the boondocks here in the U.S. if you think $100k salaries are hard to do. For somebody with Jaedon's work ethic, it's pretty common. With a computer science degree, he can easily hit that amount in 5 years or so, working closer to standard hours than his current hours.
On August 25 2009 05:35 Juicyfruit wrote: Jaedong is no ordinary person in any case. I have no doubt he has both the intelligence and perseverance to be successful in a lot of careers.
Not to mention he works way more than the standard 8-hour shift right now.
Anyone can go to school and work in a career. 100k salarys aren't just ok SChool-College-100k salary. And hes not too young to make his own decisions. Parents shouldn't be making life choices for a 19 year old. This whole situation is absolutely fucking retarded. And i feel bad for jaedong is put into this situation. Being in this stress only hurts his training even more. Jaedong should do what he wants and what he loves. He shouldn't go to college and skip pro-gaming just cause you or his parents think in the longrun its the better choice. You shouldn't even be talking about what jaedong should do Cause as far as im concerned hes far more accomplished then anyone on TL.
That's just wrong. I think too many people here are making erroneous judgments based on Western culture. Asians prize education more than Westerners do.
You must live in the boondocks here in the U.S. if you think $100k salaries are hard to do. For somebody with Jaedon's work ethic, it's pretty common. With a computer science degree, he can easily hit that amount in 5 years or so, working closer to standard hours than his current hours.
keep in mind exchange rates dont necessarily reflect the difference in cost of living, at least not exactly. the amount of won that makes 100k $ might have a much higher purchasing power in korea than it does in the USA.
ie in ppp units the salaries of progamers are in fact 12.3% (945/841 -1) higher than the conversion into nominal $ would suggest. the salary proposed by oz would yield an equivalent (ppp) salary of almost 160k $ in the USA. now, theres quite some jobs where u can reach 100k, but 160k, within 5 years after graduating? and a guy like jd can plan on getting quite some of the special incentives included in his contract, which would put his ppp salary over the 200k $ bound easily. so even with this bad contract he would make more than most guys with a master´s degree 5 years after graduating.
as explained in my previous post, i personally think the "break-even point" between focusing on education and career in the corporate world on the one side and continuing his career as a progamer on the other side lies pretty much between 150k and 200k (nominal).
why is everyone so obsessed with money? I think he's having a really good time playing starcraft with friends. He gets food, shelter and a decent amount of money already as it is. By the time he starts seeing starcraft as his job that's when ppl should worry about his payment etc, but until then I dont see why everyone is so upset T_T.
But yeah I understand that his parents hate to see him overworked but they have to realize jaedong chose the practice schedule himself, he's not forced by his coach, for example, to play more than everyone else.
On August 25 2009 07:15 ZpuX wrote: why is everyone so obsessed with money? I think he's having a really good time playing starcraft with friends. He gets food, shelter and a decent amount of money already as it is. By the time he starts seeing starcraft as his job that's when ppl should worry about his payment etc, but until then I dont see why everyone is so upset T_T.
But yeah I understand that his parents hate to see him overworked but they have to realize jaedong chose the practice schedule himself, he's not forced by his coach, for example, to play more than everyone else.
no, but to have high success in the individual leagues aswell as carrying his pl team pretty much on his shoulders alone cant come together unless he practices that much. and it doesnt matter how much of a good time he thinks he has, he is ruining his health (both physically and mentally) and he maybe doesnt even know what he´s missing. even if he changes to a team with a strong lineup, he would still be in the individual leagues and play at least 1 game during every pl match. often times he´d also be the ace.
his workload cant be reduced, but he can get a fair compensation for it. and by finding a stronger team the mental pressure could be reduced because the team is not entirely relying on him and him alone. call me arrogant, but i indeed do think that jd doesnt realize (yet) what he puts himself into in the long run by choosing this path.
On August 25 2009 07:15 ZpuX wrote: why is everyone so obsessed with money? I think he's having a really good time playing starcraft with friends. He gets food, shelter and a decent amount of money already as it is. By the time he starts seeing starcraft as his job that's when ppl should worry about his payment etc, but until then I dont see why everyone is so upset T_T.
But yeah I understand that his parents hate to see him overworked but they have to realize jaedong chose the practice schedule himself, he's not forced by his coach, for example, to play more than everyone else.
no, but to have high success in the individual leagues aswell as carrying his pl team pretty much on his shoulders alone cant come together unless he practices that much. and it doesnt matter how much of a good time he thinks he has, he is ruining his health (both physically and mentally) and he maybe doesnt even know what he´s missing. even if he changes to a team with a strong lineup, he would still be in the individual leagues and play at least 1 game during every pl match. often times he´d also be the ace.
his workload cant be reduced, but he can get a fair compensation for it. and by finding a stronger team the mental pressure could be reduced because the team is not entirely relying on him and him alone. call me arrogant, but i indeed do think that jd doesnt realize (yet) what he puts himself into in the long run by choosing this path.
I didn't know you spoke on behalf of Jaedongs body/mind.
On August 25 2009 06:33 o[twist] wrote: haha everyone hoping he comes to college with them
seriously, he could allkill most csl teams SIMULTANEOUSLY in a 1v4
i really think that financially going to college would be the better option in the long run. a guy with his passion and work ethics can easily get a job that pays 100k a year, lets say 5-7 years after graduating. but he can perform this job for several decades then, whereas his career as an active top-progamer wont last for much more than 4-6 years from now on. and as people mentioned earlier, if he doesnt join college in time chances are high he wont get a good paying job. guys who graduate at the age of almost 30 virtually never get those 100k-jobs...
on the other hand payment as a progamer always comes lagged to success. he now is at the peak of his performance and success, which means that the next few years would be his biggest years income-wise. (as a progamer...) if he retired now, he would throw away much of the to-be-expected payment that he built up during the past years. but then again, if he doesnt find another team or a way to force hwaseung to pay him more than those disgraceful 140k, he will miss this payday even if he stays a progamer. its a tough decision, but i personally think financially it would be the better choice to retire and go to college if and only if he indeed doesnt find a better paying contract than the 140k oz offered him.
oh man, these kespa rules are so goddamn retarded and rigged. if i were jaedong id be soooo fucking pissed XD"
in the US, it's easy to go to college at any age if you have a good reason. I'm sure if he did well enough in progaming, he can come to college in the US, get a CS degree or something, and do well.
your statistic about people aged 30+ doing poorly out of college is flawed. Just because most people who get out of college at age 30+ don't do well doesn't mean it's because employers are colleges discriminate against older people. more likely than not, it's because the people who dont get into college until their 30s have more hurdles in their life and thus are not able to focus single mindedly on their career.
On August 25 2009 07:15 ZpuX wrote: why is everyone so obsessed with money? I think he's having a really good time playing starcraft with friends. He gets food, shelter and a decent amount of money already as it is. By the time he starts seeing starcraft as his job that's when ppl should worry about his payment etc, but until then I dont see why everyone is so upset T_T.
But yeah I understand that his parents hate to see him overworked but they have to realize jaedong chose the practice schedule himself, he's not forced by his coach, for example, to play more than everyone else.
This isn't relevant. Your job isn't worth less just because you enjoy doing it. Jaedong's play deserves adequate compensation, period.
On August 25 2009 07:57 genwar wrote: I didn't know you spoke on behalf of Jaedongs body/mind.
The amount of practice he has to do would be taxing for anyone. Even if he is the best Starcraft player in the world, he's still human.
ye 100k job sallarys so easy to get. like lol im making 500k a year sallary with a little effort. For the record. Ur all a bunch of retards for even suggesting JD to go to college right now. He would be wasting away what it means to be young. The ability to compete. If he went to college he would just become like everyone else. a nobody There is nothing to gain going down that route. And every single person that even suggest such a thing Shame on you. Jaedong is set for an opportunity to become the greatest SC player/RTS player ever. So you think he should just give it all up. to go to college and TRY to make 100k a year? you idiots actually think its as simple as going into college coming out and landing 100k salary? You do realize that Jaedongs worth ethic comes from his passion for SC and some self control. That is why hes the best atm, Whose to say he would succeed in college doing anything else. Love and passion is what drives him forward. not $. You all need to take your heads out of your asses and think properly for a moment Succeeding isnt about intelligence, its about passion. You cant succeed in doing something you hate. and you cant fail in doing something you love.
On August 25 2009 09:41 starPride wrote: He would be wasting away what it means to be young.
You heard it here first from starPride, everybody. What it means to be young is to sit in front of a computer 10 hours a day and share bunk beds with 5 other dudes. Ah, if only we could all have our youths back so we could spend more time not getting laid.
On August 25 2009 10:38 zazen wrote: If Jaedong asked Blizzard to join SC2 balance team, you think they would say "no"? That would be cool, plus we'd get BR's of him destroying David Kim.
Man this is really in stark contrast to Jaedong's interview. I mean in his interview JD really came off like he strongly desires to get back in the OZ house, and just out of the blue his dad says stuff like this ... just leads me to think there's either a lot of disagreement between JD and his parents or they want to try to scare OZ into giving up more money.
I'd be sad to see him go, especially if he makes the decision purely because of his parents wishes. I can understand them wanting to protect their son, but his mother's demand for such a massive salary just strikes me as mercenary and greedy. There are a lot of things JD has had to give up in relation to a 'normal life' to be a progamer, but the advantages speak for themselves. I think transfering to a new team where the burden is lessened or a serious re-thinking of the Hwaseung OZ approach to utilising Jaedong and the rest of the line up is needed.
A retirement at this early stage would feel like squandering talent. Unless he chooses to play the remaining PL season and then either complete his mandatory military service before SC2 is too established or just takes time off to practice for the future before returning.
I just hope all this ends well for Jaedong - he's the one who will be living this life after all, not his parents or his current team.
JD's parents have JD's best interest in mind. Let there be no doubt about that.
Progamer isn't a real occupation which allows you to actually build your life around it. It sucks the life out of players and spit them out when they're spent. JD's parents have a foresight into this harsh truth and they're acting in the best interest of JD.
On August 25 2009 13:02 NeverGG wrote: I'd be sad to see him go, especially if he makes the decision purely because of his parents wishes. I can understand them wanting to protect their son, but his mother's demand for such a massive salary just strikes me as mercenary and greedy. There are a lot of things JD has had to give up in relation to a 'normal life' to be a progamer, but the advantages speak for themselves. I think transfering to a new team where the burden is lessened or a serious re-thinking of the Hwaseung OZ approach to utilising Jaedong and the rest of the line up is needed.
A retirement at this early stage would feel like squandering talent. Unless he chooses to play the remaining PL season and then either complete his mandatory military service before SC2 is too established or just takes time off to practice for the future before returning.
I just hope all this ends well for Jaedong - he's the one who will be living this life after all, not his parents or his current team.
imo 180m won is the least OZ can do for the Golden mouse winner. I mean look at Calm... 130 won? for what? lots of PL wins?
On August 25 2009 13:02 NeverGG wrote: I'd be sad to see him go, especially if he makes the decision purely because of his parents wishes. I can understand them wanting to protect their son, but his mother's demand for such a massive salary just strikes me as mercenary and greedy. There are a lot of things JD has had to give up in relation to a 'normal life' to be a progamer, but the advantages speak for themselves. I think transfering to a new team where the burden is lessened or a serious re-thinking of the Hwaseung OZ approach to utilising Jaedong and the rest of the line up is needed.
A retirement at this early stage would feel like squandering talent. Unless he chooses to play the remaining PL season and then either complete his mandatory military service before SC2 is too established or just takes time off to practice for the future before returning.
I just hope all this ends well for Jaedong - he's the one who will be living this life after all, not his parents or his current team.
imo 180m won is the least OZ can do for the Golden mouse winner. I mean look at Calm... 130 won? for what? lots of PL wins?
Well PL wins is what recruiting teams really care about...
jd is so young though. he COULD retire early and remain known for his amazing play as a young pro, or he could continue playing where he will inevitably slump like all the greats
I'm not sure where some of you are getting the idea that you can make $100k right out of college with a comp.sci degree. I'm a Computer Science major (2 years in, 2 more to go), and all indications are that you're lucky to get a $65k starting salary these days.
On August 25 2009 13:02 NeverGG wrote: I'd be sad to see him go, especially if he makes the decision purely because of his parents wishes. I can understand them wanting to protect their son, but his mother's demand for such a massive salary just strikes me as mercenary and greedy. There are a lot of things JD has had to give up in relation to a 'normal life' to be a progamer, but the advantages speak for themselves. I think transfering to a new team where the burden is lessened or a serious re-thinking of the Hwaseung OZ approach to utilising Jaedong and the rest of the line up is needed.
A retirement at this early stage would feel like squandering talent. Unless he chooses to play the remaining PL season and then either complete his mandatory military service before SC2 is too established or just takes time off to practice for the future before returning.
I just hope all this ends well for Jaedong - he's the one who will be living this life after all, not his parents or his current team.
imo 180m won is the least OZ can do for the Golden mouse winner. I mean look at Calm... 130 won? for what? lots of PL wins?
Well PL wins is what recruiting teams really care about...
Lol, having a Jaedong in your team is like having 3 Calm at the same time, you can't deny that. Not to mention his success in individual leagues. If Calm could get 130m, 180m for Jaedong is just ridiculous. I'm sure some teams like STX could easily pay Jaedong at least twice what Calm is paid. Fcking stupid FA rules! I hope Jaedong retires just to get out of Oz then get the pro license again and join another better team.
oz (just the corporation and managers and possibly even coach cho) and kespa are huge ass douchebags who don't give a shit about their players and only want $$$
JD is so homo for lomo (young, naive, passionate, w/e) that he doesn't care about being ripped off
JD's parents are getting frustrated at the two above points and are becoming desperate as they know they are slowly losing with no offers having been made thus far
seriously, 200m (salary plus bonuses) for JD when calm gets 130m (i dont even know if this includes bonuses) isn't simply unfair, it's cruel for such a devoted and successful player
also, i'm pretty sure JD ain't going to retire and that the university thing is a bluff JD parent's are prbly going to be forced to take Oz's offer like someone said
what they can do however, is to help contribute to the movement to remove kespa and all this abusive shit and replace it with something reasonable ppl are certainly getting more pissed off as protests are showing up at matches now lol it's time for a fucking progamer's rights movement if you ask me.
orrrr jaedong could just practice less haha. like not practice beyond the normal hours required, drop from top 3 players to top 15 players or something, and still perform as the best player on his team although Oz will drop in the rankings.
I'd just be like "so yeah, I carried us this far, still want to help, but it's been too much so far..."
First off... you are talking about the best player in SC, not a B-teamer that has little or no chance of making the A-team. To say he should retire because "Oh, he can make this and that" in other fields of work is speculative and useless at best. He can make alot of money NOW, and its not a "what if"-scenario. It's fact. He's a celebrity in Korea due to his SC success, and that has value. Another fact.
Whats with the $100k nonsense... What makes you think he will earn that in Korea or earn it period. He may as well end up in a cubicle for the rest of his fuckin life. Thats right. The people in cubicles were "smart kids" too. Not everyone has a career, and to idly say you will automatically earn this money is ignorant. Jaedong doesnt live in the States, possibly has no interest in living in the states so why are you talking about what you can make over there? What does a KOREAN programmer make? Thats far more relevant than your $100k guarantees.
What you dont realise is that theres NO synergy between having been a good gamer and a programmer. He wouldnt just be changing jobs - its a complete swap of careers. He cant draw upon his game skills to be a better programmer, and he cant draw upon his fame in this career. If you think he'd be some kind of awesome game developer because of it - no. Being able to play a game well doesnt mean you can make better games than anyone else. Programming games is low on the luxury food chain and good luck getting your magical $100k out of the blue programming games, and forget vacations.
The only effect of it all is that he would completely throw away what hes accomplished in Starcraft, and that is something that actually matters in S. Korea. Being the best SC player has value in Korea - its something he can build on. Unless hes unhappy being a pro-gamer, he should see it to the end. After that he can change jobs. If e-sports is still his passion, he should find another job within e-sports. To change career into something you dont care about to chase a wage would be nothing short of stupid if you are well aware what your passion is, and if you have a foot in the door in that field.
Or... he could get a job as something he doesnt really care about, knowing what he'd really want to do, hate his boss, hate his job and be like most people out there.
On August 25 2009 17:44 TheRecliner wrote: What you dont realise is that theres NO synergy between having been a good gamer and a programmer. He wouldnt just be changing jobs - its a complete swap of careers. He cant draw upon his game skills to be a better programmer, and he cant draw upon his fame in this career. If you think he'd be some kind of awesome game developer because of it - no. Being able to play a game well doesnt mean you can make better games than anyone else. Programming games is low on the luxury food chain and good luck getting your magical $100k out of the blue programming games, and forget vacations.
So false, I don't even know where to begin, but whatever. There's synergy between being good at things, period. For instance, top hedge funds like to hire kids who did math or programming contests, even if they never took an economics course in their entire life and don't know a thing about econ. An extension of that is that there's absolutely no question in mind Jaedong would be great at a top quantitative hedge fund, where he'd literally be making over a million dollars a year after three to five years.
Those of you who are saying "he might be in a cubicle" are selling him so short it's ridiculous. People who are talented, disciplined, and driven will always find a way to be successful almost no matter what they do. Obviously there are limits - I'm not saying Jaedong could play in the NBA or something.
On August 25 2009 17:56 darktreb wrote: So false, I don't even know where to begin, but whatever. There's synergy between being good at things, period.
Theres no synergy between being good at two arbitrary things. You could be a fantastic guitar player but be a bad cook. Two different fields, just as playing a game which involves intense eye/hand coordination, multitasking versus something requiring math, problem abstraction.
Ofc Jaedong could be multitalented, but Im not assuming it. All I know is hes good at Starcraft.
Edit: Your top hedge fund example requires being a top mathematician or programmer then being trained within a top hedge fund.
On August 25 2009 17:56 darktreb wrote: So false, I don't even know where to begin, but whatever. There's synergy between being good at things, period.
Theres no synergy between being good at two arbitrary things. You could be a fantastic guitar player but be a bad cook. Two different fields, just as playing a game which involves intense eye/hand coordination, multitasking versus something requiring math, problem abstraction.
Ofc Jaedong could be multitalented, but Im not assuming it. All I know is hes good at Starcraft.
Edit: Your top hedge fund example requires being a top mathematician or programmer then being trained within a top hedge fund.
Smart people are often good at improving at things in general. They're good at evaluating their own weaknesses, and they're good at making connections between things, both of which are extremely valuable in almost all places. I'm not saying all fields are equally distinct or similar, but there are usually more similarities between seemingly different fields than meets the eye.
A fantastic guitar player could just be extremely naturally good at guitar, in which case he/she might be a terrible chef. But in most cases, if a great guitar player had a desire to be a very good chef, they could probably do it by applying many of the same concepts of identifying your mistakes and weaknesses and working on them. On the other hand, I can definitely see how it might be harder for a great chef to become a very good guitar player, though again not impossible. A lot of times the missing ingredient is not skill, but rather passion.
But the thing with SC is, while people can definitely have innate talent for it (see Flash?), it definitely is not the kind of thing where skill alone can carry you. In fact, it's been demonstrated time and time again than discipline, work ethic, and intelligence/innovation are what play a gigantic role in SC, once you get past the physical mechanics that are more innate. Thus, I liken the "conversion" from being good at SC to being good at a more "standard job" to more like stud guitar player -> chef than the other way around.
Note that I'm not saying Jaedong can become the BEST at anything he wants to. But here's the thing - while you have to basically be the best SC player to make $250K a year, you simply have to be pretty good at a lot of other fields to make a comparable amount of money, especially over a long period of time (jury's still out on the sustainability of progaming skills converting to salary). Money isn't the only thing matters, but when you factor in general education, amount of time spent working, stress, and the time to enjoy the finer things in life ... it starts to add up.
Hopefully those koreans realize that 14 hour training isnt they way to go. It isnt even effective since players wont learn much after like 5-7 hours training just like in any other sports.
From Fomos; there has been no offer at all for the greatest overmind Jaedong Lee
It has been revealed that there has been no offer from 10 progamer teams to recruit Jaedong Lee, who is the biggest star for sale in the market.
/// From here is my own opinion.
I think that there has been conspiracy among the teams behind the scene. I was literally stunned for a while when I saw this article, and it seems that things will fall on Jaedong’s hands again.
From Fomos; there has been no offer at all for the greatest overmind Jaedong Lee
It has been revealed that there has been no offer from 10 progamer teams to recruit Jaedong Lee, who is the biggest star for sale in the market.
/// From here is my own opinion.
I think that there has been conspiracy among the teams behind the scene. I was literally stunned for a while when I saw this article, and it seems that things will fall on Jaedong’s hands again.
well, i guess oz screwed jd and his parents, kespa is cackling in the corner, jd doesn't really care, oz managers are jumping for joy whilst counting their cash, and his parents are hella pissed off... gg
Seeing as how it would have cost a team something like 600 million (need to pay 2X to Oz) because of the ridiculous rules, this really isn't surprising.
On August 25 2009 17:04 Waxangel wrote: 2~3 hours till deadline
omgggggggg
So exciting, this will have a pretty big impact on the E-sports scene and if he/his parents "win" it might just set a precedent.
Looks like they will lose though, I hope Jaedong parents don't force him to retire.
Someone mentioned stigma about studying age in Korea. it's very complicated if he spends 2 years more progaming and then has to make sacrifices because of his age difference to regular students later on.
Yes I am awake right now.
edit: and yes this "free agent" system is designed to limit freedom.
They are making the player purchase completely improbable, they know teams don't have 400 million won sitting around to buyout top players.
edit2: holyfuck at all of the comments in that link, people are like "????????" and "-_-"-ing
So sad... How can it be that no team is willing to pay $300k for the greatest player in the game? Is this a sign E-sports is doing quite poorly? Or collusion? Something else?
ShaperofDreams// Some Korean netizens call it Free Auction, not Free Agent. Really sucks... isnt it.
Also like to say congratulations to Kespa, since in the future, there will be no players at all want to pronounce FA. Now front managers of the teams will also be happy since they keep the players with slavery contracts and promote their disgraceful names to the ignorant public.
Gee, that was unexpected. I guess this means Jaedong is going to retire. That must suck a lot: the greatest potential in the scene right now going away so young
Well now I guess he can go back to Oz right? I mean no teams bid for him probably because either they think they will do fine with the zerg they already have or they can't afford him. Oz has already said they would uphold their offer if he doesn't get any. So I guess JD will get to stay with Oz in the end, now the only thing I hope is that maybe Coach Cho was able to convince their sponsors to dish out more cash, and that Coach Cho will spend more time propping up other players (as well as players training harder) so that JD won't have to carry the team entirely again.
On August 25 2009 22:06 randomKo_Orean wrote: Unless I misinterpreted the fomos article, if jaedong doesn't get any bids and denies Oz's offer, he becomes a semi-progamer for 1 year (meaning he can't play at professional level)
After that, can he sign to any team without the stupid "pay original team insane amount" clause? If so, that might be the smartest option, since he can skip the 140,000,000 deal for a year, then sign for 250,000,000 a year later, while also making it clear that Progamers /= slave labor and that KeSPA is not truly a player's union.
uh the whole way oz handled this makes me assume they knew or at least suspected that no other team would be willing or able to make an offer on jaedong. I mean as a team they totally depend on Jaedong, yet they offer a comparable small salary and just don't budge from that number. Kinda like they were sure he would have no other choice than to resign with them anyway.
On August 25 2009 22:06 randomKo_Orean wrote: Unless I misinterpreted the fomos article, if jaedong doesn't get any bids and denies Oz's offer, he becomes a semi-progamer for 1 year (meaning he can't play at professional level)
After that, can he sign to any team without the stupid "pay original team insane amount" clause? If so, that might be the smartest option, since he can skip the 140,000,000 deal for a year, then sign for 250,000,000 a year later, while also making it clear that Progamers /= slave labor and that KeSPA is not truly a player's union.
you need to wait 1 year as a semi-pro if renecotiation fails with oz.
but then after 1 year of no camp schedules, televised matches, trophies or anything, jd might lose his edge, or worse yet, jd may not find a team due to said reasons.
only league semi-pro is allowed to participate is wcg.
On August 25 2009 22:06 randomKo_Orean wrote: Unless I misinterpreted the fomos article, if jaedong doesn't get any bids and denies Oz's offer, he becomes a semi-progamer for 1 year (meaning he can't play at professional level)
After that, can he sign to any team without the stupid "pay original team insane amount" clause? If so, that might be the smartest option, since he can skip the 140,000,000 deal for a year, then sign for 250,000,000 a year later, while also making it clear that Progamers /= slave labor and that KeSPA is not truly a player's union.
its a year though, thats 3 osl, msl's he could win...
I hope Jaedong does retire. Oz would get what it deserves, Kespa would be burned down, and Jaedong gets to be remembered forever as what may have been. The best player ever that left at his greatest moment.
Seriously, what was it like when Anytime retired prematurely to the air force? This seems like history repeating itself only no one gave a shit about Anytime because he wasn't on top and they had Jaedong anyway.
Some days I think Korea is completely retarded. When you look at this joke that is Kespa, you see KTF coming up with names worse then a monkey could, MBC selling it's captain, star player, and star assistant coach apparently, (To become the joke that they are now, wtf did they think was gonna happen.) to the numerous human rights violations that is pro starcraft.
Jaedong should retire. Starcraft doesn't deserve Jaedong.
On August 25 2009 22:06 randomKo_Orean wrote: Unless I misinterpreted the fomos article, if jaedong doesn't get any bids and denies Oz's offer, he becomes a semi-progamer for 1 year (meaning he can't play at professional level)
A year from now most of the pro-scene will be playing / gearing for SC2.
Going overseas to study is a huge stretch for someone as old as Jaedong. First, there is the language barrier, second, there is no parental control and he will most likely just do whatever the fuck he wants (some guy i knew, turned from a nice guy into a guy who everyone hated, did drugs, had sex to the point where he was kicked out of here). Third, he will most likely just chill with Koreans due to the language barrier which is kind of pointless because you can't learn english that way. Fourth, he is Jaedong so he is likely going to get quite a bit of attention from Koreans, who will be like "zomg master" so why leave Korea in the first place? Just my opinion.
On August 26 2009 01:08 Elegance wrote: Going overseas to study is a huge stretch for someone as old as Jaedong. First, there is the language barrier, second, there is no parental control and he will most likely just do whatever the fuck he wants (some guy i knew, turned from a nice guy into a guy who everyone hated, did drugs, had sex to the point where he was kicked out of here). Third, he will most likely just chill with Koreans due to the language barrier which is kind of pointless because you can't learn english that way. Fourth, he is Jaedong so he is likely going to get quite a bit of attention from Koreans, who will be like "zomg master" so why leave Korea in the first place? Just my opinion.
Learning any kind of english in Korea is basically nothing. I got about 3-4 years of English education in Korea before i left, and all i knew how to say was Hello, My name is ______
EDIT: Sorry about all the negativity, but I don't want anyone else to suffer what ive gone through for about a year, as well as many others who have had this happen to them for much longer.
On August 26 2009 01:08 Elegance wrote: Going overseas to study is a huge stretch for someone as old as Jaedong.
As old as him? WTF he is normal college age. He's just going to get older. If he wants a career that will take him overseas and if he wants the language to do that with now would be the time. FFS if he can study English anywhere near as hard as he practices SC, he'll be fine. It didn't take me that long to learn German to the point of being conversant when I moved there, and all I'd had was 4 years in high school and one in college that basically meant squat. He's guaranteed to be farther along in English than I was in German before I went. I had a German roommate, and four months tops (since that's when I went to a different city) I was fine on my own. He'd be fine.
I bet no one in his family/immediate circle thought he should learn some english before going over seas.....-_-. Why do people make big deals about stuff they have zero information on.
On August 26 2009 01:08 Elegance wrote: Going overseas to study is a huge stretch for someone as old as Jaedong.
As old as him? WTF he is normal college age. He's just going to get older. If he wants a career that will take him overseas and if he wants the language to do that with now would be the time. FFS if he can study English anywhere near as hard as he practices SC, he'll be fine. It didn't take me that long to learn German to the point of being conversant when I moved there, and all I'd had was 4 years in high school and one in college that basically meant squat. He's guaranteed to be farther along in English than I was in German before I went. I had a German roommate, and four months tops (since that's when I went to a different city) I was fine on my own. He'd be fine.
getting a CS degree for a US university has good value in going back to korea to become a programmer, or whatever else he decides to major in.
jaedong would probably be able to get into an ivy league in the US and use that name brand reputation, on top of his own reputation, to secure an awesome job.
He had 44% of their total wins from rounds 1, 2, 4, and 5 according to my numbers. I wouldn't expect that to go up a ton when you added in WL given the fact that HiyA also had an allkill but it probably would boost it. His wins contributed to ace matches are a little less than people tend to think intuitively but obviously it still a good chunk.
On August 27 2009 09:21 heyoka wrote: He had 44% of their total wins from rounds 1, 2, 4, and 5 according to my numbers. I wouldn't expect that to go up a ton when you added in WL given the fact that HiyA also had an allkill but it probably would boost it. His wins contributed to ace matches are a little less than people tend to think intuitively but obviously it still a good chunk.
Actually Hiya had more wins than Jaedong in WL going into the playoffs, but obviously Jaedong's numbers jumped a lot there. But yeah, other than those two Oz had almost nothing.
On August 27 2009 09:21 heyoka wrote: He had 44% of their total wins from rounds 1, 2, 4, and 5 according to my numbers. I wouldn't expect that to go up a ton when you added in WL given the fact that HiyA also had an allkill but it probably would boost it. His wins contributed to ace matches are a little less than people tend to think intuitively but obviously it still a good chunk.
Actually Hiya had more wins than Jaedong in WL going into the playoffs, but obviously Jaedong's numbers jumped a lot there. But yeah, other than those two Oz had almost nothing.
jaedong is the best player, but that doesn't mean he will a lot of the wins on the team.
the other players on the team also play games, and they are eliminated before they reach high level players. so the other players play less games, but their win ratio isn't abysmal, because they never get to the point where they play high level players.
jaedong's win ratio is special not just because it is high, but also because it is again very high level players who he is able to beat. for example, my bnet account right now is at 80% win ratio with more than 1000 games total, but that doesn't say anything.
On August 27 2009 09:21 heyoka wrote: He had 44% of their total wins from rounds 1, 2, 4, and 5 according to my numbers. I wouldn't expect that to go up a ton when you added in WL given the fact that HiyA also had an allkill but it probably would boost it. His wins contributed to ace matches are a little less than people tend to think intuitively but obviously it still a good chunk.
Actually Hiya had more wins than Jaedong in WL going into the playoffs, but obviously Jaedong's numbers jumped a lot there. But yeah, other than those two Oz had almost nothing.
jaedong is the best player, but that doesn't mean he will a lot of the wins on the team.
the other players on the team also play games, and they are eliminated before they reach high level players. so the other players play less games, but their win ratio isn't abysmal, because they never get to the point where they play high level players.
jaedong's win ratio is special not just because it is high, but also because it is again very high level players who he is able to beat. for example, my bnet account right now is at 80% win ratio with more than 1000 games total, but that doesn't say anything.
Yep. Add in also that he plays the most games so he has the least amount of time to prepare for each one. His games are all over the TV and his style and strategies are all much more public than the average player. Then add on the fact that he's the most likely to get sniped -- not only does he naturally have less practice time, but his opponents are more likely to prepare more against Jaedong than they would against an average player.
so when will we find out whether he retired or signed with oz? is it the 31st?
this sucks both ways,
if JD retires kespa takes a real public relations hit (which is good, they need some sort of reform) but we won't be able to see his zerg greatness for at least a year -_-
and if JD signs with oz, then this FA policy has a good chance of staying intact D:
kespa is really starting to make EA, FIDE, and Congress look like they care about their fan base
I just saw this... KESPA should have seen this coming when they made their rules.
A player can't be represented by an agent... but you need parental consent. Effectively, that makes the parents agents.
A player must negotiate with the highest bidder... but no team wants a sad, miserable pro gamer mooching around. it's bad for team spirit. So what will the player do? Obviously he will get the word out that he really wants to play for team X, and then all the teams will have a little huddle and everyone else will decide not to bid. I bet that's why nobody has submitted a bid for him.
This is great. If Jaedong threatens to retire, it might force KESPA to rewrite their moronic rules.
44 % of ratio is abismal it is almost 50%, and a lot of them are aces vs very good players... without him Oz would suck so badly specially since hiya and backho started slumping.
On August 27 2009 10:14 Roffles wrote: His parents on the other hand, don't rock.
As much as I'd like to see Jaedong continue playing, I agree with his parents that his treatment has been unfair. The fact is that he is a huge figure for both Hwaseung OZ and Starcraft in general, yet he gets almost no reward. Furthermore, by spending all his hours practising he is sacrificing a lot of future opportunity. The fact is that there is little future for even the best progamers, and KESPA is not going to give him a pension when he is forced to retire from the game some time in his 20s. If I was his parents, I would do exactly the same.
EPT
