• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:10
CEST 19:10
KST 02:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror2[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup8StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)67Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2316
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups? How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? October World Ranking: herO stays #1, ByuN returns
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Fantasy returning? PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague 20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft [ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 4/4
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 2v2v2v2 Tournament [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8839 users

Some Zerg BOs I've been thinking about

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 05:38:25
May 20 2008 05:36 GMT
#1
First off, I'm gonna list some info that people may find useful (and I don't want to lose for future use). I couldn't find this info from a google search, and honestly didn't really know what to type in to try to find it anyway.

Zerg Build Timings (in seconds) (24fps@Starcraft):

12 Drone
15 Zergling
18 Hydralisk
24 Overlord

75 Hatchery
63 >Lair
24 Extractor
26 Evolution Chamber
50 Spawning Pool
26 Hydralisk Den
12 Creep Colony
12 >Sunken Colony


63 Zergling/Hydra Ups
168 +1 Carapace/Melee/Range
75 Lurker Aspect
83 Overlord Ups

1 larva/15seconds/hatchery = 4 larva/minute/hatchery
24 gas mined/5 seconds/geyser = 288 gas/minute/geyser

all numbers are approximate of course, just timed from a couple replays.


The following are a few builds I came up with while playing/thinking sometime. Obviously they're not completely smoothed out yet. All assume Python.



IDEA: Against FE protoss, the protoss has relatively little defense keeping them alive while they macro up and tech up. This culminates at about 6 minutes into the game, when they tend to add several gateways and switch over to mass unit production. Before that 6 minute mark, the protoss will generally have nothing to protect himself but 1-3 photon cannons and a few zealots at his nat. This idea is for what I'll call an all-in timing push at or just before the 6 minute mark. My current build plans to have ~9 or so hydras + as many lings as you can get, with both hydra range and speed, and +1 carapace (although the carapace may need to be cut since it takes almost 3 minutes, and really pushes the plausibility of getting an extractor in time. It would almost require gas before pool to get 150 gas before 3:12, now that I think of it.).
EXECUTION:
1. Scout early. You're going to open 12hatch, and the protoss will likely respond with nexus first, at which point you may as well go 3hatch before pool. If he for some reason builds his gateway first, you need to build a pool right away obviously.
2. I wanted to get an evo chamber, and get +1 carapace right away for a couple reasons:
- when protoss scouts the evo, he probably won't think you're planning an all in, and
- +1 carapace makes your army much stronger against his zealots (though I'm starting to question this now).
however, it looks like +1 carapace is not viable, and not as useful as I initially assumed. So, you'll probably want to get a hydra den right away to start the upgrades. Range is very useful for positioning while shooting down cannons/microing against zealots, and speed makes microing against zealots much more profitable.
3. Deny scouting. This may be the toughest part of this build. You'll make a few lings initially to deal with his scouting probe, but depending on your opponent's skill level, that may be difficult with slowlings. Zergling speed would be nice, but there may not be gas to spare for it with the timing. The other option is to concentrate on getting rif of that first probe ASAP, then throwing up a sunk to keep out any more scouts. Costs more minerals/worse for econ, but this is an all-in, so that doesn't matter too much. By the way, useful fact: with ~15 drones on minerals, and 1 geyser, you can sustain 3 hatches worth of hydras, overlords, and a few lings indefinitely.
4. Finally, roll out to protoss' nat, rally your hatches, and move in, hydras first, to take out cannons, with lings to support after, or take on zealots while the hydras finish the cannons and reinforcements arrive. Also, make sure to have an overlord sent to his nat from early on, because protoss will likely try to save himself with a couple DTs. Also, you may want to have a hydra patrolling back home to deal with his first corsair, otherwise you won't be able to reinforce the push.
+ Show Spoiler [Results] +
So far, I've tried this twice. One time, I tried to get the +1 carapace and all, and my result was that my timing was way late, with my push coming at around 7 minutes, by which time he had several gateways pumping zealots, and zealot speed. Plus he was a pretty good player too. So that didn't work.
The second time, I skipped the +1 carapace, and also got 3hatch before pool, and it went perfectly, except I had forgotten to put an overlord in front of his nat, and was delayed from moving into his main by DT for quite some time before finally finishing him off.



Whew. This has gotten pretty long already, so I'll save the rest of the builds for another blog.

****
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 05:39:44
May 20 2008 05:39 GMT
#2
so you are suggesting

3hatch hydra (+1 carapace) rush?

cause like... this isnt necessarily new...
posting on liquid sites in current year
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 05:51:12
May 20 2008 05:46 GMT
#3
On May 20 2008 14:39 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
so you are suggesting

3hatch hydra (+1 carapace) rush?

cause like... this isnt necessarily new...


I had a feeling this would be mentioned, so I'll just say this:

I know it's not new, and I'd be surprised if any build order could ever be "new" in Starcraft anymore. Regardless, understanding how to execute it, and even more importantly, why it should work, is important, and I felt like writing it down as I try to understand it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm not claiming to have created a new build or something, and the "newness" of it is largely irrelevant to me.
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
May 20 2008 06:47 GMT
#4
no, its really old. its iccup in a few words. fuck you all-inners..

try to think of a good long term build maybe?
keep ideas comin
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
YoUr_KiLLeR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States3420 Posts
May 20 2008 06:52 GMT
#5
good to see that youre thinking in depth about the game.
what the fuck do you have to say for yourself now you protoss jackass can you retaliate in any way
Sanity.
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States704 Posts
May 20 2008 09:48 GMT
#6
On May 20 2008 15:47 Hypnosis wrote:
no, its really old. its iccup in a few words. fuck you all-inners..

try to think of a good long term build maybe?
keep ideas comin

yesssssssssssssssssssssssss
8882
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
2736 Posts
May 20 2008 16:03 GMT
#7
I actually started wondering, if the antic dual lair build could work somehow ZvP. The idea would be to make the protoss mass cannons at his choke and then simply drop the hydras into his main after the dual upgrades are researched.
I have returned
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
May 20 2008 16:29 GMT
#8
Thats actually not a bad idea.. Drops are realy effective vs P early game because of the lack of obs, Someone should try a dual upgrade strat and see how it goes..
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 19:04:51
May 20 2008 19:04 GMT
#9
On May 21 2008 01:03 8882 wrote:
I actually started wondering, if the antic dual lair build could work somehow ZvP. The idea would be to make the protoss mass cannons at his choke and then simply drop the hydras into his main after the dual upgrades are researched.


If they go sairs they'd scout this before your drop tech is finished. Also that's pretty gas intensive. You'd have to get both gas going asap.

And a question I forgot to put in the OP: What does protoss expect when he FEs and zerg doesn't take a third? Does that give away the rush? or are there non-rush builds for zerg against FE protoss that don't involve taking a third right away?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
00:00
#14
MilkiCow vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
Harstem452
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 452
IndyStarCraft 202
Railgan 68
BRAT_OK 57
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23013
BeSt 483
Larva 386
Mind 171
Soma 162
Dewaltoss 104
Last 68
Sexy 67
hero 59
Sea.KH 58
[ Show more ]
Zeus 50
Killer 44
Hyun 44
ToSsGirL 26
Bale 23
NaDa 22
PianO 22
Rock 18
Sacsri 5
Dota 2
Gorgc5159
qojqva3029
Dendi1217
420jenkins392
Counter-Strike
fl0m4685
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3888
Khaldor1322
Liquid`Hasu1185
MindelVK11
Other Games
FrodaN2026
byalli875
B2W.Neo767
ArmadaUGS179
Hui .175
KnowMe137
QueenE86
Mew2King59
CosmosSc2 30
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1104
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream44
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 24
• Reevou 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 48
• FirePhoenix3
• niya90s1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3893
League of Legends
• Nemesis2500
Other Games
• Shiphtur286
• WagamamaTV237
Upcoming Events
BSL Open Qualifier
1h 50m
BSL Open Qualifier
1h 50m
Replay Cast
5h 50m
Afreeca Starleague
16h 50m
Rush vs Light
WardiTV Weekly
17h 50m
Monday Night Weeklies
22h 50m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 16h
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
1d 17h
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
INu's Battles
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Patches Events
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Copium Cup
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.