• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:00
CET 05:00
KST 13:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational12SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)25Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 [Short Story] The Last GSL
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Which foreign pros are considered the best? Gypsy to Korea BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fantasy's Q&A video
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1493 users

Some Zerg BOs I've been thinking about

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 05:38:25
May 20 2008 05:36 GMT
#1
First off, I'm gonna list some info that people may find useful (and I don't want to lose for future use). I couldn't find this info from a google search, and honestly didn't really know what to type in to try to find it anyway.

Zerg Build Timings (in seconds) (24fps@Starcraft):

12 Drone
15 Zergling
18 Hydralisk
24 Overlord

75 Hatchery
63 >Lair
24 Extractor
26 Evolution Chamber
50 Spawning Pool
26 Hydralisk Den
12 Creep Colony
12 >Sunken Colony


63 Zergling/Hydra Ups
168 +1 Carapace/Melee/Range
75 Lurker Aspect
83 Overlord Ups

1 larva/15seconds/hatchery = 4 larva/minute/hatchery
24 gas mined/5 seconds/geyser = 288 gas/minute/geyser

all numbers are approximate of course, just timed from a couple replays.


The following are a few builds I came up with while playing/thinking sometime. Obviously they're not completely smoothed out yet. All assume Python.



IDEA: Against FE protoss, the protoss has relatively little defense keeping them alive while they macro up and tech up. This culminates at about 6 minutes into the game, when they tend to add several gateways and switch over to mass unit production. Before that 6 minute mark, the protoss will generally have nothing to protect himself but 1-3 photon cannons and a few zealots at his nat. This idea is for what I'll call an all-in timing push at or just before the 6 minute mark. My current build plans to have ~9 or so hydras + as many lings as you can get, with both hydra range and speed, and +1 carapace (although the carapace may need to be cut since it takes almost 3 minutes, and really pushes the plausibility of getting an extractor in time. It would almost require gas before pool to get 150 gas before 3:12, now that I think of it.).
EXECUTION:
1. Scout early. You're going to open 12hatch, and the protoss will likely respond with nexus first, at which point you may as well go 3hatch before pool. If he for some reason builds his gateway first, you need to build a pool right away obviously.
2. I wanted to get an evo chamber, and get +1 carapace right away for a couple reasons:
- when protoss scouts the evo, he probably won't think you're planning an all in, and
- +1 carapace makes your army much stronger against his zealots (though I'm starting to question this now).
however, it looks like +1 carapace is not viable, and not as useful as I initially assumed. So, you'll probably want to get a hydra den right away to start the upgrades. Range is very useful for positioning while shooting down cannons/microing against zealots, and speed makes microing against zealots much more profitable.
3. Deny scouting. This may be the toughest part of this build. You'll make a few lings initially to deal with his scouting probe, but depending on your opponent's skill level, that may be difficult with slowlings. Zergling speed would be nice, but there may not be gas to spare for it with the timing. The other option is to concentrate on getting rif of that first probe ASAP, then throwing up a sunk to keep out any more scouts. Costs more minerals/worse for econ, but this is an all-in, so that doesn't matter too much. By the way, useful fact: with ~15 drones on minerals, and 1 geyser, you can sustain 3 hatches worth of hydras, overlords, and a few lings indefinitely.
4. Finally, roll out to protoss' nat, rally your hatches, and move in, hydras first, to take out cannons, with lings to support after, or take on zealots while the hydras finish the cannons and reinforcements arrive. Also, make sure to have an overlord sent to his nat from early on, because protoss will likely try to save himself with a couple DTs. Also, you may want to have a hydra patrolling back home to deal with his first corsair, otherwise you won't be able to reinforce the push.
+ Show Spoiler [Results] +
So far, I've tried this twice. One time, I tried to get the +1 carapace and all, and my result was that my timing was way late, with my push coming at around 7 minutes, by which time he had several gateways pumping zealots, and zealot speed. Plus he was a pretty good player too. So that didn't work.
The second time, I skipped the +1 carapace, and also got 3hatch before pool, and it went perfectly, except I had forgotten to put an overlord in front of his nat, and was delayed from moving into his main by DT for quite some time before finally finishing him off.



Whew. This has gotten pretty long already, so I'll save the rest of the builds for another blog.

****
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 05:39:44
May 20 2008 05:39 GMT
#2
so you are suggesting

3hatch hydra (+1 carapace) rush?

cause like... this isnt necessarily new...
posting on liquid sites in current year
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 05:51:12
May 20 2008 05:46 GMT
#3
On May 20 2008 14:39 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
so you are suggesting

3hatch hydra (+1 carapace) rush?

cause like... this isnt necessarily new...


I had a feeling this would be mentioned, so I'll just say this:

I know it's not new, and I'd be surprised if any build order could ever be "new" in Starcraft anymore. Regardless, understanding how to execute it, and even more importantly, why it should work, is important, and I felt like writing it down as I try to understand it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm not claiming to have created a new build or something, and the "newness" of it is largely irrelevant to me.
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
May 20 2008 06:47 GMT
#4
no, its really old. its iccup in a few words. fuck you all-inners..

try to think of a good long term build maybe?
keep ideas comin
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
YoUr_KiLLeR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States3420 Posts
May 20 2008 06:52 GMT
#5
good to see that youre thinking in depth about the game.
what the fuck do you have to say for yourself now you protoss jackass can you retaliate in any way
Sanity.
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States704 Posts
May 20 2008 09:48 GMT
#6
On May 20 2008 15:47 Hypnosis wrote:
no, its really old. its iccup in a few words. fuck you all-inners..

try to think of a good long term build maybe?
keep ideas comin

yesssssssssssssssssssssssss
8882
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
2720 Posts
May 20 2008 16:03 GMT
#7
I actually started wondering, if the antic dual lair build could work somehow ZvP. The idea would be to make the protoss mass cannons at his choke and then simply drop the hydras into his main after the dual upgrades are researched.
I have returned
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
May 20 2008 16:29 GMT
#8
Thats actually not a bad idea.. Drops are realy effective vs P early game because of the lack of obs, Someone should try a dual upgrade strat and see how it goes..
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 19:04:51
May 20 2008 19:04 GMT
#9
On May 21 2008 01:03 8882 wrote:
I actually started wondering, if the antic dual lair build could work somehow ZvP. The idea would be to make the protoss mass cannons at his choke and then simply drop the hydras into his main after the dual upgrades are researched.


If they go sairs they'd scout this before your drop tech is finished. Also that's pretty gas intensive. You'd have to get both gas going asap.

And a question I forgot to put in the OP: What does protoss expect when he FEs and zerg doesn't take a third? Does that give away the rush? or are there non-rush builds for zerg against FE protoss that don't involve taking a third right away?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Rongyi Cup S3 - Group D
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 186
Ketroc 81
StarCraft: Brood War
PianO 146
Shuttle 80
ZergMaN 60
Noble 20
Icarus 8
Bale 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever476
NeuroSwarm120
febbydoto15
League of Legends
JimRising 848
Counter-Strike
taco 194
minikerr28
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1773
Mew2King21
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor135
Other Games
tarik_tv15544
summit1g13436
gofns11126
WinterStarcraft294
ViBE125
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1330
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH102
• Mapu17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21618
League of Legends
• Scarra2324
Upcoming Events
RongYI Cup
7h
herO vs ShoWTimE
Solar vs Classic
Wardi Open
10h
Monday Night Weeklies
13h
OSC
20h
Replay Cast
1d 5h
RongYI Cup
1d 7h
Clem vs TriGGeR
Maru vs Creator
WardiTV Invitational
1d 10h
Replay Cast
2 days
RongYI Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
HomeStory Cup
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.