• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:36
CEST 12:36
KST 19:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection4Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June0Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
My starcraft 2 changes Glyco Honey Review 2026: Real Customer Experiences SCFusion - WoL, HotS & LotV Build Order Optimizer TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes?
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
Tesagi Viewer - A new era of replay watching 14k games analyzed: Cross Spawn Nexus first good? FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ VPN experiences
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors? Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6029 users

[G] Investing (part 5)

Blogs > azndsh
Post a Reply
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 20:59:39
December 01 2010 04:12 GMT
#1
To review:
1. Why invest?
2. Information (and EMH)
3. Minimizing variance
4. Understanding costs

If you've been following along, I've talked about several things that should factor into your investment decisions, including objectives, variance, and cost. Now it's time to tie it all together and figure out what actually fit all of the following.

Criteria
1. Relatively lower risk, which can be accomplished through diversification. This rules out most individual stocks and any leveraged products.

2. In general, the more something trades, the smaller the bid-ask spread. Thus, the more popular something is, the less it costs to enter/exit positions. We want to pick products with lots of volume and market capitalization.

3. Finally, we want to avoid high fees, so be careful when you're looking at mutual funds or ETFs that have high management fees or expense ratios.

ETFs
In general, I advocate ETFs (exchange-traded funds) because they can meet all of the above objectives. If you were to create your own diversified portfolio, you'd have to go out and individually buy dozens of different things. ETFs are also pretty popular these days, so you'd face pretty small spreads for the important ones. Finally, they usually have lower fees than comparable mutual funds and certainly lower costs than actively managing your positions.

Here's a list of ETFs ordered by category from lowest to highest risk/expected return.


Fixed Income
Basically debt, these guys are considered safer than stocks because if a company goes bankrupt, these guys get paid first even if the stock goes to zero. They usually pay out cash on a regular basis (interest on the debt). This is good for people who want some regular income with no real intent to grow. This is more ideal for people who are retired and want to live off their savings.

TIP - US Treasuries. US government debt is the safest thing in the world. Note that the price can still change, but it can't ever really go to zero in the foreseeable future without the world burning and crashing.

LQD - US corporate debt of investment-grade companies (the ones considered safest). Higher interest than treasuries.

AGG - All US corporate debt. More payouts than just investment-grade companies, but also more risk. Still considered pretty safe as far as investing is concerned.


US Stocks
This category is the stuff that people are by far the most familiar with. Definitely should be part of any balanced portfolio.

SPY - The 500 largest public US companies. This is also the single most popular ETF.

IWM - Russell 2000 consists of the 1000th-3000th largest companies in the US. These guys are smaller and thus higher risk and their performance tends to be similar to the S&P 500.

QQQQ - NASDAQ 100 stocks. This index consists of the largest 100 companies on the NASDAQ, which in general contains a lot of tech stocks. It has some overlap with the S&P 500.

XLF, XLE, etc. Finance stocks, energy stocks, and so on. There's one for every sector of the economy as classified by S&P if you want a specific focus.


International Stocks
In general, it's a good idea to have some exposure to the rest of the world to further diversify your positions. Plus, a lot of people make the argument that there's more potential for growth especially in developing economies.

EFA - MSCI EAFE Index of stocks in developed countries. Biggest members: Japan, United Kingdom, France, Australia, Germany, Switzerland.

EEM, VWO - These two ETFs are basically the same thing. The MSCI Emerging Markets Index of stocks in developing countries. Biggest members: China, Brazil, India, Russia (aka BRIC)

FXI, EWZ, etc. China and Brazil, respectively, if you want a specific country focus.


Commodities
Generally speaking, I don't recommend investing in commodities for a pretty simple reason: they don't produce anything. Sure the price of gold might go up, but in the long run, it's just gold. Companies and economies can grow larger and produce more wealth, but gold just sits there. I suppose the coolest thing about these is that it has really made investing in gold/silver/oil/etc more accessible to the average person.

GLD, SLV - gold, silver, etc.

paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13196 Posts
December 01 2010 04:40 GMT
#2
Fuck me I'm cramming CFA level I right now...

X _ X
Hates Fun🤔
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
December 01 2010 04:48 GMT
#3
Fairly nice summary. I would have to agree with most everything but commodities. Commodities are decent in the way of ETFs (mining firms especially) Although investing in gold itself is a bit suspect.
denzelz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States604 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 05:22:36
December 01 2010 05:14 GMT
#4
How much money would you say is a good start for investing? How can someone who just got out of college in his first job get started with accumulating wealth?

EDIT: Oh, I'm sorry, I just read the first post in the series and you do explain it well there. Thanks, I've been enjoying this series.
Crabby
Profile Joined August 2010
United States66 Posts
December 01 2010 12:58 GMT
#5
On December 01 2010 13:12 azndsh wrote:

Commodities
Generally speaking, I don't recommend investing in commodities for a pretty simple reason: they don't produce anything. Sure the price of gold might go up, but in the long run, it's just gold. Companies and economies can grow larger and produce more wealth, but gold just sits there. I suppose the coolest thing about these is that it has really made investing in gold/silver/oil/etc more accessible to the average person.

GLD, SLV - gold, silver, etc.


Is that your professor's opinion or your own? Perhaps this isn't you but people come out of their economics/finance classes starry eyed and voice the above argument as gold. I guess I detested when people would downplay commodities arguing no value added. Fact is, they don't but they do play a central role in pricing. Furthermore, commodities have allowed corporate farmers and companies hedge. Commodities may not produce something physically but act as an enzyme to pricing.
If she ain't 280, she ain't a lady
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
December 01 2010 13:28 GMT
#6
how is that at all relevant to investing your savings? I never said the goal here was to price things accurately.
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 16:41:29
December 01 2010 15:57 GMT
#7
Happy to see a finance thread on TL! I think you should also add REITs and FX (not recommended for amateurs). REITs pays very nice dividends and could be a diversifier (although correlation to equity is pretty strong).

There are 2 key concepts in fixed income: credit quality and duration/maturity. The lower the credit quality, the higher the interest rate (as well as the risk for default). The longer the maturity/duration, the higher the sensitivity of the bond is to the change in interest rates. If you have a view that interest rates are going up, stay away from the long duration bonds.

In terms of credit quality, after treasury and TIPS comes Municipal bonds, these are issued by states/local govt, with slightly higher interest rates and very good for tax purposes (you can wiki it for more info). I am not a huge fan of Fixed Income nowadays because rates are so low, but you can go a little bit beyond corporate aggs in the credit spectrum into things such as High Yield, commonly associated with junk bonds with high default rates. These give you stock-like returns with stock-like risks.

I think applying a moderate amount of leverage to fixed income portion of the portfolio (assuming you have significant allocation to equity) can actually helps improve return without increasing risks too much.

It seems that OP works in finance, if you are going to continue with this series, the next step could diverge into more specific topics such as duration in fixed income, earnings/PE, etc., or portfolio theory: basic definitions of correlations, volatility, efficient frontiers, capital market lines, etc. Keep up with the good work!
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
December 01 2010 16:02 GMT
#8
I also agree with OP's thesis on commodities. Institutions use it more often as a hedge against inflation, it should never be a central part of the portfolio if you are seeking returns as a individual investor. You should not look at commodities as return generating assets, but more as demand/supply driven items, they are cyclical and can be extremely volatile to manage.
Crabby
Profile Joined August 2010
United States66 Posts
December 01 2010 19:49 GMT
#9
On December 01 2010 22:28 azndsh wrote:
how is that at all relevant to investing your savings? I never said the goal here was to price things accurately.


I recommend investing in commodities because of one simple reason, I can see where people are hedging and take advantage of an upcoming potential price swing.

See what I did there?
If she ain't 280, she ain't a lady
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
December 01 2010 20:53 GMT
#10
On December 02 2010 04:49 Crabby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 22:28 azndsh wrote:
how is that at all relevant to investing your savings? I never said the goal here was to price things accurately.


I recommend investing in commodities because of one simple reason, I can see where people are hedging and take advantage of an upcoming potential price swing.

See what I did there?

well, I imagine this guide must be quite useless to you if you can predict the future.
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
December 01 2010 20:55 GMT
#11
On December 02 2010 00:57 Glacierz wrote:
Happy to see a finance thread on TL! I think you should also add REITs and FX (not recommended for amateurs). REITs pays very nice dividends and could be a diversifier (although correlation to equity is pretty strong).

There are 2 key concepts in fixed income: credit quality and duration/maturity. The lower the credit quality, the higher the interest rate (as well as the risk for default). The longer the maturity/duration, the higher the sensitivity of the bond is to the change in interest rates. If you have a view that interest rates are going up, stay away from the long duration bonds.

In terms of credit quality, after treasury and TIPS comes Municipal bonds, these are issued by states/local govt, with slightly higher interest rates and very good for tax purposes (you can wiki it for more info). I am not a huge fan of Fixed Income nowadays because rates are so low, but you can go a little bit beyond corporate aggs in the credit spectrum into things such as High Yield, commonly associated with junk bonds with high default rates. These give you stock-like returns with stock-like risks.

I think applying a moderate amount of leverage to fixed income portion of the portfolio (assuming you have significant allocation to equity) can actually helps improve return without increasing risks too much.

It seems that OP works in finance, if you are going to continue with this series, the next step could diverge into more specific topics such as duration in fixed income, earnings/PE, etc., or portfolio theory: basic definitions of correlations, volatility, efficient frontiers, capital market lines, etc. Keep up with the good work!


Nah, this just about wraps it up. This is like a dummy's guide to investing money long-term without getting picked off. I think all the rest is either too academic or specific to really be useful to the majority of people out there.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
SEL Masters #6
Solar vs Classic
LiquipediaDiscussion
The PiG Daily
21:30
GSL Ro8 Group B Replay Cast
Maru vs SHIN
Rogue vs Zoun
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 98
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9509
firebathero 466
BeSt 362
Horang2 286
Soma 244
Larva 210
Zeus 155
Leta 119
EffOrt 110
ZerO 83
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 82
Last 80
Hyun 67
Light 59
910 58
Rush 47
Mind 34
Mong 33
yabsab 24
Bale 13
sorry 12
Sacsri 10
Barracks 4
Dota 2
Gorgc1529
XcaliburYe41
Counter-Strike
fl0m1381
byalli391
zeus170
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King80
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor50
Other Games
singsing2089
B2W.Neo590
Sick144
Pyrionflax129
KnowMe111
ZerO(Twitch)14
OptimusSC212
MindelVK10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick645
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH231
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP72
• iHatsuTV 47
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1431
• Jankos1288
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4h 24m
Grudge Match
5h 24m
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm
OSC
10h 24m
MaxPax vs YoungYakov
Krystianer vs Shameless
GgMaChine vs Creature
LetaleX vs MiniZergUA
ReBellioN vs TBD
ArT vs HiGhDrA
Nicoract vs Azura
GSL
21h 24m
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
1d 2h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 4h
BSL
1d 8h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
OSC
1d 13h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.