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As a random player in diamond, I often find myself rarreeelly getting zerg. I would say for every 10 games I play, I get zerg once or so. My zerg play just needs a lot of work, period. So, over these past few days I have been exclusively practicing Zerg.
My main partner is a Terran player and my other partner is a Protoss player. The games against toss have been cake. But against T, I am just lost. Over a span of 20-25+ games, even when knowing what build the person is going, be it good scouting or me asking him flat out to do X build, I just can't pull out wins. Games lately have been slightly closer, but, still, nothing close to even being decent. I have him go mass bio, I kill his entire army, but he also kills all my lings and banelings. I expand, rinse, repeat, until he finally over whelms me or I make the 1st mistake (I.E. banelings not splashing on marines properly)
Don't even get me started on my progress V mech. I can't seem to even hold the first push off before getting torched :/ . It's so demoralizing. My sense of droning and getting army / composition as zerg is just terrible.
PLEASE NOTE: This is not a "terran op" rant. I'm just venting my frustration of how difficult it is FOR ME to beat decent Terran players. Like I said, my sense of droning, getting army, getting right kind of army is just ugh. I guess I just need to take 100 more losses before I get it right. Oh well. Thanks for listening.
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Removed at op's request
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 26 2010 11:58 Mortis wrote:
Don't even get me started on my progress V mech. I can't seem to even hold the first push off before getting torched :/ . It's so demoralizing. My sense of droning and getting army / composition as zerg is just terrible.
No Kidding. I'm still working on that same thing myself. Especially knowing when to econ and when to army produce.
I guess it just comes with experience. You know when you can survive this push with X units, so you can get by with just what you need, or something like that.
Good luck though, I did the same thing Random --> Zerg cause it was my weakest of the three.
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On September 26 2010 12:04 Torenhire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 11:58 Mortis wrote:
Don't even get me started on my progress V mech. I can't seem to even hold the first push off before getting torched :/ . It's so demoralizing. My sense of droning and getting army / composition as zerg is just terrible.
No Kidding. I'm still working on that same thing myself. Especially knowing when to econ and when to army produce. I guess it just comes with experience. You know when you can survive this push with X units, so you can get by with just what you need, or something like that. Good luck though, I did the same thing Random --> Zerg cause it was my weakest of the three.
Thanks. Yeah, I guess it will just take watching lots of painful replays and, like I said, taking 100 more tough losses before it gets better, heh.
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lol dw, i've been playing Z since BW, 900 diamond now and i'm still not getting the droning/expo'ing right.
Some games are just complete walk-overs ie equal food but his army is 3x bigger lol
The hard thing about zerg is, if you over-army, you never notice it. As in, in game I never notice really that i'm not droning enough until watching the rep and realising he has 10-20 more workers than me.
But yea, comes with experience I guess. I just want one day to have the confidence/experience to be able to make exactly 1pair of lings (to kill scout) in early game like Idra. That guy is baller.
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On September 26 2010 12:00 Hunch wrote:cool story bro. lol na if i ended it with that i would get banned  but ya, cool story bro. User was temp banned for this post.
I can't believe people are still doing this.
Personally I haven't played sc2 besides beta but from what I gather, including iem, msl vods, blogs/posts, and unit compositions zerg are lacking a dynamic unit that can tank + clutch, ie front line of attack + good for defense (readily available). Perhaps the spine crawlers should have been nerfed to unmovable in exchange for another unit, or lurker upgr 
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Yeah, I don't know what to suggest. I am not a professional player, so, my skill is so much lower. Don't really feel as if I have the right to say whatever race needs some kinda "x" unit to deal with "y". Maybe someday 
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as a terran player, i will say mech is tough for zerg to deal with in most situations. It is somewhat counter intuitive because you are often forced to go with a composition that is supposedly hard countered by what T is throwing.
the advice i can offer is: harass the hell out of your opponents economy if you can (abuse immobility). That first mech push is often All-in in the sense that if it doesnt do at least fair damage, it is pretty easy for the zerg to jump far ahead on macro, because of how expensive it is to fund mech. I like to play hellion expand into a later first push, giving me a better economy for if it fails- so this is something to keep in mind also.
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On September 26 2010 12:39 SpooN) wrote:
as a terran player, i will say mech is tough for zerg to deal with in most situations. It is somewhat counter intuitive because you are often forced to go with a composition that is supposedly hard countered by what T is throwing.
the advice i can offer is: harass the hell out of your opponents economy if you can (abuse immobility). That first mech push is often All-in in the sense that if it doesnt do at least fair damage, it is pretty easy for the zerg to jump far ahead on macro, because of how expensive it is to fund mech. I like to play hellion expand into a later first push, giving me a better economy for if it fails- so this is something to keep in mind also.
Assuming you throw Thors into your first push, muta harass is tough to accomplish. I've had games where I thought the very same thing - "I'll throw mutas at his mineral line while he attacks me" and I get rolled cause I wasted cash on mutas when I needed defending units.
I just have trouble with mech because it seems so powerful in respect to what zerg can do to counter it. I've been experimenting with a mix of roach/hydra to see if maybe roaches for tank hydra for dps will counter a standard thor push...then of course terran can just stack up on marauders and have at your army.
It's just my own personal opinion that it's very tough for zerg to stop mech right now, and it's going to remain tough until someone figures out what to do against mech...whether it's backstab, surround, some unit combo, some timing push... Ah, maybe some day.
On September 26 2010 12:18 alexpnd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 12:00 Hunch wrote:cool story bro. lol na if i ended it with that i would get banned but ya, cool story bro. User was temp banned for this post. I can't believe people are still doing this.
But...but...but...he said something other than cool story bro! It's a useful post!!
Edit: LOL HAREM
Hunch was just temp banned for 2 days by Harem.
That account was created on 2010-08-11 07:02:41 and had 248 posts.
Reason: is this where you go "cool ban bro" now?
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Can I be a practice partner as well please? Info is RyuChus 271. I'm practicing with all races right now, good to have a zerg partner.
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Zerg is definitely the hardest race to get into. It's the least forgiving in regards to macro mechanic and the drone/army factor adds in yet another difficulty. Most random players have a hard time with Zerg IMO.
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Torenhire.524
Plat zerg, has me ranked in diamond though cause someone else asked to use it to smurf for a while. Probably gold zerg by now, I've been playing random a lot lately so I'm kind of spread out between all three races.
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On September 26 2010 12:00 Hunch wrote:cool story bro. lol na if i ended it with that i would get banned but ya, cool story bro. User was temp banned for this post.
lol, this is priceless.
ZvT is hard when T goes mech. I think we've more or less figured out how to deal with the bio stuff. That doesn't mean its easy, but its doable.
Top Zergs (and all the rest of us, I guess) are still trying to decipher the mech puzzle. Its definitely a very difficult matchup.
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Thank you for all the responses, recommendations and those VOD links . I will definitely be hitting the books so to speak.
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replayz? do you make spine crawlers?
vT bio (make blings and seperate your units for flanks)
vT mech (stay on mass speedRoach and lings, then double expand and head for infestor>>ultra tech)
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On September 26 2010 12:52 Torenhire wrote:
Torenhire.524
Plat zerg, has me ranked in diamond though cause someone else asked to use it to smurf for a while. Probably gold zerg by now, I've been playing random a lot lately so I'm kind of spread out between all three races.
heh. i did this to a mate. borrowed his account for a day or two and left him mid-diamond, way higher than my own account. he hasnt talked to me for a while (was gold at the time?).
ontopic: the way i learnt zerg was just to mass games and watch replays. there isnt really a magical formula to your composition, but you have to play the game as it progresses (and watch for timings), and react to whats happening
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I'm also a zerg player myself , consider me as a apprentice of F91 and Sen's zerg even though I wouldn't say I am a real good zerg but I know what I'm talking about, however, I do think that the decisions made everytime when I play against a mech Terran most of the time have been the most appropriate one, as in using the units like roaches and lings in the early game and make the most of it defending while pumping drones. Still, even when I successfully defend their first push of hellions with minimal loses everytime I still find myself in a very difficult situation if they decide to stick with mech (going thors,tanks etc)
Every time when I think that I have a huge economy and try to defend his push consisting of Thors, tanks and hellions, I just end up with my 432894 roaches getting bashed in a matter of seconds like how an ice cream would melt under a hot sun. I am still under a dilemma currently against Terran mech so there was once I decided to ask F91 for advice and the conversation goes like this,
me: hey f91 whats the best unit combo against thors + tanks? I've tried mass roaches but it just wont work
f91: Just try to drop and trade bases or try going broodlords
me: but the mid game economy just wont allow me to go broodlords
f91: try trading bases because the mobility of mech isnt good
me: (speechless) do you have a better idea?
f91: No, that's the only way and you have to hope that you get lucky sometimes
me: I have around 5-6 infestors when he makes his push , I can try to parasite the thors/tanks
f91: dumbass, infestors wont work. There is no answer to that , yet. (LOL, then he ignores me and goes back to his sc training)
and for some of you whos interested to know hat does Sen think about ZvT?
Sen: You have to be a much better player to win a ZvT against your opponent, I lose 80% of the time play against a Terran around my level and only win 50% of the time against terran who has a decent idea with the expand timing and micro/macro ability (which generally means a much worse player than Sen is).
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On September 26 2010 19:04 Ash wrote:
I'm also a zerg player myself , consider me as a apprentice of F91 and Sen's zerg even though I wouldn't say I am a real good zerg but I know what I'm talking about, however, I do think that the decisions made everytime when I play against a mech Terran most of the time have been the most appropriate one, as in using the units like roaches and lings in the early game and make the most of it defending while pumping drones. Still, even when I successfully defend their first push of hellions with minimal loses everytime I still find myself in a very difficult situation if they decide to stick with mech (going thors,tanks etc)
Every time when I think that I have a huge economy and try to defend his push consisting of Thors, tanks and hellions, I just end up with my 432894 roaches getting bashed in a matter of seconds like how an ice cream would melt under a hot sun. I am still under a dilemma currently against Terran mech so there was once I decided to ask F91 for advice and the conversation goes like this,
me: hey f91 whats the best unit combo against thors + tanks? I've tried mass roaches but it just wont work
f91: Just try to drop and trade bases or try going broodlords
me: but the mid game economy just wont allow me to go broodlords
f91: try trading bases because the mobility of mech isnt good
me: (speechless) do you have a better idea?
f91: No, that's the only way and you have to hope that you get lucky sometimes
me: I have around 5-6 infestors when he makes his push , I can try to parasite the thors/tanks
f91: dumbass, infestors wont work. There is no answer to that , yet. (LOL, then he ignores me and goes back to his sc training)
and for some of you whos interested to know hat does Sen think about ZvT?
Sen: You have to be a much better player to win a ZvT against your opponent, I lose 80% of the time play against a Terran around my level and only win 50% of the time against terran who has a decent idea with the expand timing and micro/macro ability (which generally means a much worse player than Sen is).
lol this post was awesome xD
love that f91 dialogue really cracked me up
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EPT
