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On April 25 2012 22:05 Lockitupv2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 20:01 DoubleReed wrote:On April 25 2012 14:46 Lockitupv2 wrote:On April 25 2012 07:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 25 2012 05:45 Lockitupv2 wrote:On April 25 2012 05:14 DoubleReed wrote:
Lockitupv2, as someone else in the thread corrected me, transgender does not refer to simply feminine characteristics for a man. There are plenty of feminine men who are not at all transgender. So clearly what you're saying makes no sense. Please do not make sweeping conclusions about something that you even admit that you have little knowledge of. According to http://geneq.berkeley.edu/lgbt_resources_definiton_of_terms#transgender, a "female with a masculine gender identity" would be considered a transgender person but also a person "who identifies as a man" is as well, which is Scarlett's case, but reversed. So, essentially, you associate "gender" with "gender stereotypes"? Transgenderism has nothing to do with men wanting to wear purses and women wanting to play football. I dont make the definitions but I play by them. You want to change the definition of transgendered take it up with them. So, when we're talking about one definition you make all your conclusions and arguments about another definition? Wow that sounds like a very intelligent discussion. What are you talking about? I use the same definition through out.
That response doesn't make sense so I think you misread me. Anyway, we're not talking about feminine men. We're not talking about women engineers, CEOs, and managers. You are the only one.
Those people are not the people who identify as transgender. I don't care what a dictionary says. A dictionary is about historical and social usage. It's not the arbiter of the English language. A dictionary is not an argument for anything.
You have no argument because you're just talking about something else.
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On April 25 2012 14:46 Lockitupv2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 07:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 25 2012 05:45 Lockitupv2 wrote:On April 25 2012 05:14 DoubleReed wrote:
Lockitupv2, as someone else in the thread corrected me, transgender does not refer to simply feminine characteristics for a man. There are plenty of feminine men who are not at all transgender. So clearly what you're saying makes no sense. Please do not make sweeping conclusions about something that you even admit that you have little knowledge of. According to http://geneq.berkeley.edu/lgbt_resources_definiton_of_terms#transgender, a "female with a masculine gender identity" would be considered a transgender person but also a person "who identifies as a man" is as well, which is Scarlett's case, but reversed. So, essentially, you associate "gender" with "gender stereotypes"? Transgenderism has nothing to do with men wanting to wear purses and women wanting to play football. I dont make the definitions but I play by them. You want to change the definition of transgendered take it up with them.
You're not even remotely "playing by the definition". Either out of ignorance or poor reading comprehension, you've just chosen to interpret "masculine gender identity" as machoism, and "feminine gender identity" as staying in the kitchen.
You're simply wrong.
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The distinction between a male and a female is pretty damn clear. X and Y chromosomes.
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![[image loading]](http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Genderbread-2.1.jpg)
I think I should post this every time gender and sexuality is discussed on TL.
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The most important thing is:
GoSC (as Tesla said) and the tournament organizers dont have problem with this specific transgender playing in the tournament.
It's their community / tournament and they accepted Scarlett. The end.
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I think you did not address people's main concern : genetically, men have a better reaction time and the brain has a different process of decision making.
Most of your other points are okay, I have no doubt that Scarlett identifies herself as a female, but it does not take her biological advantage at Starcraft away.
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On April 26 2012 12:35 endy wrote:
I think you did not address people's main concern : genetically, men have a better reaction time and the brain has a different process of decision making.
Most of your other points are okay, I have no doubt that Scarlett identifies herself as a female, but it does not take her biological advantage at Starcraft away.
This is getting absurd. Unless you have done a scientific study, you can't prove shit about one sex being better at something than others. Yes, men have been shown to have better reaction time, but women also have been shown to be better at multitasking. Men have been shown to have better spacial awareness, but yet women get into far less car accidents. Starcraft is not just about reaction time; hell it's not just about mechanics. There's a whole load of other dimensions to the game: decision making, strategy choices, and game knowledge just to name a few. Would you like to make some ridiculous blanket statements on how the sexes compare in deciding to rush or go for a mid game timing attack? Where's the research on that?
There's no way in hell that anyone can make any firm deductions that one biological sex would be better at this game than another. There aren't enough female gamers to make a solid comparison, and there are other issues such as the fact that men in general tend to play more video games than females and therefore may have more experience with games. Seriously, there's just no support what so ever for any of these statements about which gender is "better" at the game, and anyone making statements like these are just spewing bullshit.
Honestly, when I read stuff like this, it looks to me like nothing more than an attempt to discredit Scarlett. I don't know what the issue is, whether people like you have an issue with transgendered individuals or whether you simply don't like the idea of women being able to beat men in games and thus need to find a way to minimize Scarlett's skill and accomplishments. To me, this just looks like discrimination, plain and simple.
I'm more than okay with people expressing their opinions on the subject of transgender issues, and I'm even okay with people who have moral/religious/personal issues with the idea of someone changing their bodies. But you have no right to belittle Scarlett's accomplishments with this unfounded nonsense.
-edit: to clarify, this wasn't aimed specifically at you, but at everyone in this thread and the others that have made this ridiculous assertion.
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On April 23 2012 23:22 ICCup.Tesla wrote:
I want to mention that I do have many transgender friends
ok
User was warned for this post
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I think the competitive SC2 scene isn't really the right place to argue about politics and issues like this. SC2 as an esport/competitive game is focused around the players, and within the game all players are either terran, protoss or zerg. As long as a player's simple wishes are respected (asking to be be referred to as she) and tournament organizers themselves are ok with everything, I don't see any reason for people to spend so much time getting worked up about this kinda stuff which can be debated without end, and to the benefit of noone.
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EPT
