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Orb vs Isai Cyberground Tournament ruling/issue - Page 4

Blogs > LuckyFool
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Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
September 26 2010 20:53 GMT
#61
Yeah definitely agree with the admin decision on this.
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-26 21:09:20
September 26 2010 21:09 GMT
#62
Honestly I couldn't say for certain orb was ahead. Terran MM can be pretty obscene. I'm with the tournament admins on this.
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
September 26 2010 21:29 GMT
#63
Even in the heat of the moment and after only watching orb's POV, I thought he was insanely ahead, but that the win couldn't be warranted in that situation when he had a losing army.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Ndugu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1078 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-26 22:21:46
September 26 2010 21:53 GMT
#64
I have to say that it sounds like Orb got dicked over.

I cannot honestly see any way he could have possibly lost that game, at all. Like the guy says-- his probes could have waged manly combat. He was very Stalker heavy, and with probes to tank for them they could have done a ton of damage. Keep in mind he would be reinforcing RIGHT THERE while the Terran only had what army was with him. Orbs army would have been much larger when the engagement began, and unless the Terran won overwhelmingly, the next round of warp-ins would have mopped up.

That being said, it happens. Admins did their best, it was a slightly bad judgment, but the admins are in charge. You have to remain respectful to them even afterward. A re-game is safer than giving someone an unfair loss, and had Orb won, no one would be complaining. I'm all for BMing your opponent because I'm American and a douchebag, so i can't really comment on that. Treat the refs properly, though.

Obviously this should be a learning experience for admins everywhere. And for Blizzard. Why can't Tournament-games just pause when a DC occurs and resume when Bnet comes back up? Why isn't there LAN? So many people who's fault this is way before the admins or the players.

Talking to both players and coming up with an alternative, like map pick for the person at an advantage, would have been a cutesy move.
-Frog-
Profile Joined February 2009
United States514 Posts
September 26 2010 22:05 GMT
#65
Is the isai in that video the same as this gentlemen:
powered by coffee, driven by hate.
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
September 26 2010 22:23 GMT
#66
On September 27 2010 06:53 Ndugu wrote:
I have to say that it sounds like Orb got dicked over.

I cannot honestly see any way he could have possibly lost that game, at all. Like the guy says-- his probes could have waged manly combat. Keep in mind he would be reinforcing RIGHT THERE while the Terran only had what army was with him. Orbs army would have been much larger when the engagement began, and unless the Terran won overwhelmingly, the next round of warp-ins would have mopped up.

That being said, it happens. Admins did their best, it was a slightly bad judgment, but the admins are in charge. You have to remain respectful to them even afterward. A re-game is safer than giving someone an unfair loss, and had Orb won, no one would be complaining. I'm all for BMing your opponent because I'm American and a douchebag, so i can't really comment on that. Treat the refs properly, though.

Obviously this should be a learning experience for admins everywhere. And for Blizzard. Why can't Tournament-games just pause when a DC occurs and resume when Bnet comes back up? Why isn't there LAN? So many people who's fault this is way before the admins or the players.

Talking to both players and coming up with an alternative, like map pick for the person at an advantage, would have been a cutesy move.


orbs army was smaller and would not have gotten bigger due to being 92/92 food and not having a pylon incoming. The only way to reproduce was to lose his army first, not to mention the 3 medivacs and MM group with stim would defeat that protoss army any day o f the week.

You clearly didn't pay attention to that game if you think he had the game won right there. It's not about who will win, because everyones had comebacks, the only way to award a win is if orb is ready to win the game RIGHT THERE which he had not done, and would not have done.

All of us at that LAN are americans, don't group us with you if you wont even pay attention to the commentary, the game, or the situation.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
September 26 2010 22:23 GMT
#67
PS: I think its been said several times that Isai is NOT the Smash player (I used to follow smash dont worry). Isai is an old BW player.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Ndugu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1078 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-26 22:50:40
September 26 2010 22:50 GMT
#68
On September 27 2010 07:23 ZlaSHeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2010 06:53 Ndugu wrote:
I have to say that it sounds like Orb got dicked over.

I cannot honestly see any way he could have possibly lost that game, at all. Like the guy says-- his probes could have waged manly combat. Keep in mind he would be reinforcing RIGHT THERE while the Terran only had what army was with him. Orbs army would have been much larger when the engagement began, and unless the Terran won overwhelmingly, the next round of warp-ins would have mopped up.

That being said, it happens. Admins did their best, it was a slightly bad judgment, but the admins are in charge. You have to remain respectful to them even afterward. A re-game is safer than giving someone an unfair loss, and had Orb won, no one would be complaining. I'm all for BMing your opponent because I'm American and a douchebag, so i can't really comment on that. Treat the refs properly, though.

Obviously this should be a learning experience for admins everywhere. And for Blizzard. Why can't Tournament-games just pause when a DC occurs and resume when Bnet comes back up? Why isn't there LAN? So many people who's fault this is way before the admins or the players.

Talking to both players and coming up with an alternative, like map pick for the person at an advantage, would have been a cutesy move.


orbs army was smaller and would not have gotten bigger due to being 92/92 food and not having a pylon incoming. The only way to reproduce was to lose his army first, not to mention the 3 medivacs and MM group with stim would defeat that protoss army any day o f the week.

You clearly didn't pay attention to that game if you think he had the game won right there. It's not about who will win, because everyones had comebacks, the only way to award a win is if orb is ready to win the game RIGHT THERE which he had not done, and would not have done.

All of us at that LAN are americans, don't group us with you if you wont even pay attention to the commentary, the game, or the situation.


What grounds do you have to say that I didn't pay attention to any of that?

Sure, Orb might not have instantly won the game right there, if you don't consider holding off a borderline all-in attack while having 2 expansions running and decent tech "winning".

Like I said, the admins made their decision and I agree with their right to make it and Orb's consent to go along with it-- that doesn't mean I can't disagree with their decision.
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
September 26 2010 22:58 GMT
#69
You can't honestly see ANY way he would lose, thats my grounds. I'll paint a scenario where he loses for you, he loses his whole army after getting kited and medivacs healing him back up, 10 marauders with stim will take down his Nexus in maybe 10 volleys along with the marines, he runs up the ramp because orb built more stalkers in the attempts to not get kited/killed by the marauders, but unfortunately a wave of 4/8 stalkers will still lose to 10 stimmed marauders and 3 medivacs.

If you did pay attention to the video you'd know there is always a chance orb loses, he his ahead economically and behind in army comp and size.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Ndugu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1078 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-26 23:09:03
September 26 2010 23:08 GMT
#70
On September 27 2010 07:58 ZlaSHeR wrote:
You can't honestly see ANY way he would lose, thats my grounds. I'll paint a scenario where he loses for you, he loses his whole army after getting kited and medivacs healing him back up, 10 marauders with stim will take down his Nexus in maybe 10 volleys along with the marines, he runs up the ramp because orb built more stalkers in the attempts to not get kited/killed by the marauders, but unfortunately a wave of 4/8 stalkers will still lose to 10 stimmed marauders and 3 medivacs.

If you did pay attention to the video you'd know there is always a chance orb loses, he his ahead economically and behind in army comp and size.


There's always a chance for everything. There's a chance that, based on Orb's observations, the other player was going to develop a heart problem and they were gonna have to put the match on hold. Or that he waited a bit to engage and Orb had charge done and an increasing army size advantage.

In my opinion, it is so overwhelmingly likely that Orb would have won that he should have been awarded the victory. Once again, I was not an Admin, and I respect the Admins decisions, just like I hope mine would have been respected had I been an admin.

Don't really care to debate this ad infinitum.
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-26 23:20:23
September 26 2010 23:20 GMT
#71
On September 27 2010 08:08 Ndugu wrote:

There's always a chance for everything. There's a chance that, based on Orb's observations, the other player was going to develop a heart problem and they were gonna have to put the match on hold. Or that he waited a bit to engage and Orb had charge done and an increasing army size advantage.

In my opinion, it is so overwhelmingly likely that Orb would have won that he should have been awarded the victory. Once again, I was not an Admin, and I respect the Admins decisions, just like I hope mine would have been respected had I been an admin.

Don't really care to debate this ad infinitum.


There's a chance that Orb loses his army, loses his natural. There's a chance he mis-micros. There's a chance IsAi never attacks and Orb rides his huge econ to a victory. There's a chance for everything.

I quoted you, and underlined and bolded the important word.

If you could replace that word with "certain" then a free-win can be given. IMO.
SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
September 26 2010 23:22 GMT
#72
On September 27 2010 07:05 frog HERO wrote:
Is the isai in that video the same as this gentlemen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouUooMEHqig

I highly HIGHLY doubt its the same Isai as the Smash Isai.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
September 26 2010 23:28 GMT
#73
From the things orb said to the various people, he really deserved to just lose like that.
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
September 26 2010 23:31 GMT
#74
On September 27 2010 08:22 Sentenal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2010 07:05 frog HERO wrote:
Is the isai in that video the same as this gentlemen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouUooMEHqig

I highly HIGHLY doubt its the same Isai as the Smash Isai.


It's not it's not it's not it's not ITS NOT. Rofl.

We've said it a couple times already. Not trying to come off like an ass or anything. XD
SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
Dog22
Profile Joined April 2010
United States140 Posts
September 26 2010 23:34 GMT
#75
Sorry to derail, but I really wish Isai from smash played starcraft 2. That would be so cool...
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
September 26 2010 23:58 GMT
#76
orb wins that game 9/10 but i agree with the choice made by the admins because it wasnt over and is was no way isais fault it got disconnected.

side note: orbs an asshole

User was temp banned for this post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
Molybdenum
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States358 Posts
September 27 2010 00:38 GMT
#77
It really seems that orb was in tremendous position to take this game. Also, Isai had pretty terrible unit control in the first few minutes of this game. He lost a big force to take down a zealot. From what this replay shows, he would have to dramatically step up his game in order to properly micro the attack, if he were attacking right then.

However, what's done is done. Perhaps what needs to happen is a change in how tournaments handle disconnects. I think it was said that this one had no prior rules? Certainly in the future, tournaments need to be prepared for the reasonably likely disconnect possibility (Blizz... help make this a better e-sport game, add some support). Perhaps if one player has a large advantage (orb's advantage was rather large), and a disconnect occurs, that player should be allowed to choose the next map (as was mentioned before), because a fresh game is not fair. The player should be allowed to maintain some of their earned advantage into the regame, and a map choice would be a reasonable way to allow that.
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
September 27 2010 00:41 GMT
#78
Done issue:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=32696&currentpage=383#7671

Thank you Rob for this thread anyways. You've shown complete transparency and professionalism throughout the whole thing sir.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-27 04:49:18
September 27 2010 04:47 GMT
#79
Hey guys,

-Orb- has drafted an apology. I honestly feel it's sincere, and want to share it here (having his permission to do so). I will be reviewing the next course of action with the rest of the moderation team. In fairness, it may not have been made 100% clear by myself to Orb that we were seeking apologies for the way he acted.

Ignore the wacky formatting, it's a pastebin.com thing...

1.
Subject: Orb's apology
2.
CC: LuckyFool, GenoZStriker, Nokarot, Zlasher, Torenhire
3.

4.
Hello, this is orb. Micronesia was kind enough to offer me the ability to contact you all through him.
5.

6.
I want to personally apologize to you all. While I still firmly disagree with the decision made during the cyberground tournament, it wasn't my tournament. It was your (the admins) tournament. You had every right to make whatever decision you wanted, regardless of the fairness of the decision. While I still feel personally wronged by the decision, I understand it wasn't done with the intention of wronging me. In that moment without a contingency plan it would be difficult for anyone to come up with a fair solution. Also, I understand it must have been difficult dealing with the fact that if you awarded me with the win some people would probably have viewed you as showing favoritism.
7.

8.
As all of you know, I'm not the best at dealing with my anger. I can't help but think I've become my father as he used to flip out at minor inconveniences, but at this point I don't know how to deal with it. Getting mad at you when you were clearly in a difficult situation wasn't the right thing to do, and truthfully this entire ordeal should not have been placed on your shoulders (if Blizzard would give us LAN mode). While I still do not feel I owe IsAi one bit of an apology due to the amount of BM he displayed towards me both after and before this even happened, clearly none of you deserved that rage that I apparently felt the need to express.
9.

10.
So many factors built up into the reason why I blew up (not the least of which being that I scheduled off work on a Saturday where I would have made over $300 to end up getting shafted out of the prize-pool by Blizzard's relentless anti-piracy), but that doesn't excuse it. To be honest, if I were in your shoes I'd probably ban me from coming to future LANs, as that kind of behavior and drama is only detrimental to non-Korean ESPORTS development.
11.

12.
I'll leave the decision on whether to grant me any forgiveness up to you guys. Either way, I'm sorry.
13.

14.
-orb-


Thread unlocked btw.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
September 27 2010 05:06 GMT
#80
I've said multiple times here, and it hasn't changed, that I'm orb's friend. It is awesome for him to post an apology, and at least upon my behalf I know that I forgive him for his actions and understand his frustration. I'll leave it to the others to speak for themselves. It seems that he has completely understood why our decision was made, which is all I was trying to get towards the whole time.

The decision was not made to "shaft you of the prize pool" as everyone saw that Isai didn't get in the prize pool anyways, losing to Gretorp then LastShadow, two of the most difficult opponents in the tournament.

Along with that, the decision on the possibility of future LAN participation will probably be Rob's final decision, but knowing him, he will take input from everyone and see himself what the consensus may be.

We're sorry that it had to end that way orb, I know I would be frustrated as hell if that happened to me, but right now I'm pretty sure we have decided on the new course of action that will be implemented in the case of a battle.net drop, if it were to happen again, especially since a battle.net drop is nobodys fault but blizzards, which is different from an individual's disconnect at an "online" event.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
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